Lucas : Ness Speculation Thread. Lucas Ness Styled Costume Added!!!

[FlatSoda]

This is what I like to read, reasonable arguements.

What I'd like to see is Ness return nonetheless, I really don't want anyone to go byebye. Kinda selfish here, even though i rarely played with Ness. But why not give him a new moveset, it is a new game. Why not just buff up his old moveset, add some slight touches to it. Anything is possible here. Only time can tell.

 

[FlatSoda]

I'm not so sure about that. I've never played any of the Mother games and don't really know much about them, but maybe switching the move sets up would be more faithful or accurate to them?

If not, I think Ness deserves a new move set, and to be in this game. As I said in the other thread:

I don't see why you are all saying "Ness is gone" just because it says "There’s a character named Ness who has appeared in the Smash Bros. series up until now" It is saying that Ness hasn't yet appeared in this game, basically saying he isn't ANNOUNCED yet, not that he isn't in.

It also says "But Lucas’s physical combat style is quite different. By which I mean, he does not have the same standard moves."

He says himself that there are some differences. I don't see why Ness can't adopt a new set of specials and still be in. I think for a character and series that has been part of Super Smash Bros. since the beginning they deserve at least two representatives, and for Ness to be back in.

I am agreeing 100 %.

 

[Gilgamesh]

Esto se está volviendo absurdo.

I'll just quote myself from another topic, as i think it suits this one as well:

Are the DOJO translations 100% reliable and to be taken literally? - Probably not. So yes, the "until now" statement isn't completely conclusive.

Does today's update hurt Ness' chances to return? - OBVIOUSLY. I mean come on, they gave him Ness' special moveset almost intact. It would be stupid to make ness return with a different moveset now. Think about it; it's like if they gave all of Ryu's moves to a new character in the next streetfighter, then made Ryu return with completely different moves. Sounds silly, right?

Deal with it. As much as i love Ness and the Mother franchise, his chance of returning now is near zero. And comparing Ness / Lucas to the Mario / Luigi argument is absurd: Ness not returning isn't equivalent to Luigi not returning.

Ness is gone. Lucas may have some different physicals, but if Ness had indeed made it into brawl he'd probably have received similar modifications, like most other characters did.

So yes, we can all say that Ness is gone. He was great while he lasted.

 

[Mekos]

ness will be in the game they are not going to take out one of the original smashers

 

[Foxtorres]

ness will be in the game they are not going to take out one of the original smashers

Ill hold you to this then blame you when he isnt in it Hahahah!

im just messin around man, no dude, they wouldnt give Lucas - Ness' move set man, and have him in there with his Own moveset, that leaves Ness with NOTHING <.< Lucas HAS all his moves...

 

[Tonic_Sonic]

I'll just quote myself from another topic, as i think it suits this one as well:

Are the DOJO translations 100% reliable and to be taken literally? - Probably not. So yes, the "until now" statement isn't completely conclusive.

Does today's update hurt Ness' chances to return? - OBVIOUSLY. I mean come on, they gave him Ness' special moveset almost intact. It would be stupid to make ness return with a different moveset now. Think about it; it's like if they gave all of Ryu's moves to a new character in the next streetfighter, then made Ryu return with completely different moves. Sounds silly, right?

Deal with it. As much as i love Ness and the Mother franchise, his chance of returning now is near zero. And comparing Ness / Lucas to the Mario / Luigi argument is absurd: Ness not returning isn't equivalent to Luigi not returning.

Ness is gone. Lucas may have some different physicals, but if Ness had indeed made it into brawl he'd probably have received similar modifications, like most other characters did.

So yes, we can all say that Ness is gone. He was great while he lasted.

So you are saying that he is gone just because they don't want to change his move set? This game is not street fighter. There have been a lot of surprises and originality that no one would have expected and I think that Sakurai will come through for us with Ness. I have high hopes for this games and can just hope that Ness is back in with a new set of specials.

 

[FlatSoda]

Gilgamesh:

So continuity plays a big part here?
I'd like you to explain more into detail, sticking to smash. Maybe some Zelda/Sheik opinions in brawl.
Maybe some Link got a new moveset~
Maybe Mario got FLUDD, so Luigi will get a Vacuum, that instead pushes like the FLUDD, pulls.

Anything is possible.

 

[FlyinG ShoosteR]

I'm 99% certain that Ness is gone. They would not have intentionally turned a new character into a clone. Lucas has been given every single one of Ness' specials. Yes, they've been changed, but these are the sort of changes Ness would have received were he still in.

i agree with you, they said no clones. Ness and lucas sharing all the same specials would definitely seem clone-ish, there's no way Ness is still in. unless he has a completely different moveset

 

[SAMaine]

I believe Luigi, Ness, Falco, Young Link, and Dr. Mario will return. Mario deviated too much from his mold to not have Dr. Mario feel as different as Luigi in the last game, since he needs a Final Smash and a new Down+B. Luigi can't even be CALLED a clone anymore since he only will share his Super Jump Punch and Fireball with Mario. Between Link's Twilight Princessing and Young Link's Wind Wakering, they will be more different than Luigi was to Mario in Melee, even if they both have the Boomerang/Spin Attack/Arrow/Bomb/Hookshot group. In fact, I suspect the only real clone will be Falco, who is pretty much still going to be Fox from Smash 64, but even he will have a different Final Smash to Fox's.

If Ness wasn't going to be in Brawl, Lucas would have PK Flash as Lucas learns that move in his game. Instead, Lucas has PK Freeze and borrows ALL his moves from Kumatora. Lucas has different physical attacks and two of his Specials are different... Sounds like that to Ness, he is a Luigified Clone.

 

[FlatSoda]

I believe Luigi, Ness, Falco, Young Link, and Dr. Mario will return. Mario deviated too much from his mold to not have Dr. Mario feel as different as Luigi in the last game, since he needs a Final Smash and a new Down+B. Luigi can't even be CALLED a clone anymore since he only will share his Super Jump Punch and Fireball with Mario. Between Link's Twilight Princessing and Young Link's Wind Wakering, they will be more different than Luigi was to Mario in Melee. In fact, I suspect the only real clone will be Falco, who is pretty much Fox from Smash 64, but even he will have a different Final Smash to Fox's.

WoahWoahWoah, what a flurry of characters.

I'm not even going to get in depth on this besides that I agree that IF falco returns, he'd be the closest thing to a clone.

Similiarties, not Clones people. Not trying to say clones.

 

[Cless]

If Falco was in, his Final Smash would have to be the Arwing.

 

[vydran212]

This update makes it official: Ness is NOT returning to SSB. He's legacy seems to have been passed on to Lucas, for good.

I mean, come on. Don't give me the "well, his move's animations are different" thing. The Wii is a different system from the gamecube, OF COURSE the animations will be different. Point of the matter is that Lucas has adopted Ness's B moves, the final straw in Ness's exclusion from the game.

You can only hope for a Ness alt costume (entirely possible, i think).

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

They're bashing N64 SSB if Ness truly is gone. Plus, I never heard anything about semi-clones getting removed. If that's the case, then Luigi is in trouble too.

 

[FlatSoda]

I don't get the "wii is a different console" Talk.

I'm talking about the animations, his movement/placement. not the visual or how it's graphically looked upon.

 

[SirPenguin]

The stages are:

1. Denial: The initial stage: "It can't be happening." <- You are Here
2. Anger: "Why ME? It's not fair!" (either referring to God, oneself, or anybody perceived, rightly or wrongly, as "responsible")
3. Bargaining: "Just let me live to see my child(ren) graduate."
4. Depression: "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?"
5. Acceptance: "It's going to be OK."


Ness is gone. It's sad. It was predicted long ago. Deal with it.

You can talk all you want about how some characters are similar to others. If they are, like Ike/Kirby, and Sonic/Pikachu, it's only in one facet. Here, Lucas quite literally has carbon copies of Ness's abilities. 3/4th of his special moves are IDENTICAL to Ness, and the last one has the EXACT same game mechanics, just an alteration to what it does when hit.

It'd be one thing if Lucas's moves were SIMILAR, but they are not. They are identical to Ness. Identical.

Come on. He's out.

 

[Tonic_Sonic]

The stages are:

1. Denial: The initial stage: "It can't be happening." <- You are Here
2. Anger: "Why ME? It's not fair!" (either referring to God, oneself, or anybody perceived, rightly or wrongly, as "responsible")
3. Bargaining: "Just let me live to see my child(ren) graduate."
4. Depression: "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?"
5. Acceptance: "It's going to be OK."


Ness is gone. It's sad. It was predicted long ago. Deal with it.

You can talk all you want about how some characters are similar to others. If they are, like Ike/Kirby, and Sonic/Pikachu, it's only in one facet. Here, Lucas quite literally has carbon copies of Ness's abilities. 3/4th of his special moves are IDENTICAL to Ness, and the last one has the EXACT same game mechanics, just an alteration to what it does when hit.

It'd be one thing if Lucas's moves were SIMILAR, but they are not. They are identical to Ness. Identical.

Come on. He's out.

Ness can have a change in special moves. I'm not going to ever say Ness is officially out until the game is out and he isn't in it or unlocked after a week or so.

 

[FlatSoda]

There's nothing stopping a creator to remove or change up a character's style.
Ness can have changes as anyone else can, minor and or grande.

 

[SirPenguin]

Ness can have a change in special moves. I'm not going to ever say Ness is officially out until the game is out and he isn't in it or unlocked after a week or so.

You're right, he can. But there is absolutely no logic in them giving Lucas ALL OF NESS'S original moves, only to give Ness new ones. It'd be the other way around.

 

[SirPenguin]

There's nothing stopping a creator to remove or change up a character's style.
Ness can have changes as anyone else can, minor and or grande.

And there's nothing to stop a creator from doing something he meant to with his last game, tell his audience they are indeed out, and then nail the point home by showing us the new character is exactly the old character with slight modifications.

 

[FlatSoda]

And there's nothing to stop a creator from doing something he meant to with his last game, tell his audience they are indeed out, and then nail the point home by showing us the new character is exactly the old character with slight modifications.

You lean on your side, and I'll lean on mine.
I honestly don't care if he's in or out.
The words that have been said have been said, but You tell me, not even 1 % of a chance for Ness?

 

[SirPenguin]

You lean on your side, and I'll lean on mine.
I honestly don't care if he's in or out.
The words that have been said have been said, but You tell me, not even 1 % of a chance for Ness?

There is always a 1% chance of anything happen. But Ness will not be playable. Some homage of his will be in the game, of this I am 99% sure (see what I did there?). Probably a cameo, certainly a palette swap for Lucas, but at least some mention of him.

For now, I think we can both agree to disagree, and laugh when the other is wrong come release

 

[Tonic_Sonic]

Ness Is In! You Heard It Here First! Tonic_sonic Is Defending Ness Mother ****ers! Yeeeaaaaah Ill Get To Laugh In Your Face When He Is In Bwahahaha

 

[Zek]

Tomorrow's update: Ness' assist trophy.

Please, Sakurai. Don't let this continue for 3 months.

 

[FlatSoda]

Hahaha, the 3 posts above this made me laugh.
Honestly, no holes barred, but I'm not gonna laugh if he's confirmed or not, i'll still chuckle if I find out who's wrong or right.

But yeah, srsly~ Not for 3 months, pl0x.

 

[vydran212]

I don't get the "wii is a different console" Talk.

I'm talking about the animations, his movement/placement. not the visual or how it's graphically looked upon.

My argument was that, well, the Wii is capable of better graphics than the Gamecube, so of course the visuals of certain moves will look different. That's not really an excuse for how Ness can be implemented into the game.

Point is, they'd have to completely remodel Ness's moveset if they were to include him in this game. Sakurai promised no clones, so...

That aside, could you really see Ness coming back with a new moveset? That's like saying, let's give Pikachu's exact moveset to some other Pokemon character, oh I don't know, let's give it to Zapdos...but stil include pikachu in this game with a new moveset! That=more work for the producers. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[blayde_axel]

Seriously... I don't see why people are so angry either way... laughing at people that are on either side is pretty dumb.

If he's in, great. For the people that didn't want him in, don't play as him.

If he's not in... oh well. For the people that wanted him in, there's Lucas. Don't wanna play as Lucas? Play Melee, and let us move on.

 

[Tony_]

Ness is gone. He won't be back. Accept it or main Lucas.

 

[T-Nice]

What is with you guys and all this "remake their moveset"... I say get over Ness seriously... I was bummed out when I found out Lucas might replace him... but just looking at Lucas, why the hell would you want Ness to come back; I mean seriously? Lucas is everything Ness is but more flashy to me, more updated.

Also, what's the difference with Ness and Lucas anyways... if you didn't notice, they have the same shirt (different color) same shoes (different color) both of them rocking the high socks (mad props) and both of them still have the little waddle walk, and cuteness too them (saw in the trailer Lucas walking)... the only difference is which I'm guessing like a Pokemon trademark (where they use the same character, but change the clothes or design) which is Ness trademark hat, and backpack, and Lucas with the pretty boy hair.

Seriously, Lucas is a breath of fresh air to the series... If Marth can bring Fire Emblem series to the states, why can't Lucas be a new and more cuter look to the Earthbound/Mother series?

And Why doesn't anybody see that Mario and Luigi are like Ken and Ryu of Street Fighter... they master the same style, but have their unique flavor to them... they're brothers ****it, not clones... get over it!

Oh, and Ness's special was "PK Rockin" in Mother 3 Lucas had "PK Love" as a special... just to let you know....

LUCAS ALL THE WAY!

 

[DekuBoy]

That previous post sickened me. did it occur to any of you people that some of us may judge characters on more than just fighting capabilities? I've never played any Mother games but my favourite character
( not in terms of who's my main ) is Ness. he is the coolest character in the game. most of my friends come over and play and pick 'cool' characters like Mewtwo or Bowser. I pick Ness. They get owned. Friends go away in a huff. Priceless. I don't know why Sakurai hates Ness but I'm sure he won't disappoint the Ness fans like me and many others.

 

[T-Nice]

That previous post sickened me. did it occur to any of you people that some of us may judge characters on more than just fighting capabilities? I've never played any Mother games but my favourite character
( not in terms of who's my main ) is Ness. he is the coolest character in the game. most of my friends come over and play and pick 'cool' characters like Mewtwo or Bowser. I pick Ness. They get owned. Friends go away in a huff. Priceless. I don't know why Sakurai hates Ness but I'm sure he won't disappoint the Ness fans like me and many others.

Not the fact he hates Ness, it's just something called a "Update with the series"?

Ness is cool, but you trying to tell me you don't think Lucas is just as cool as Ness?

 

[plasmatorture]

YES!!

I like my emphasis there. But, yes, I'm not really in favor of Ness. This sprung up in my mind and I do see his chances are indeed at 50%.

Like flipping a coin, you're either gonna get heads or tails. Ness is either a yes or no.
Think most people will handle Sakurai's decision? I will.

Oh
my
god.

How did this thread make it to this page without anyoen commenting on it.

There's only a yes/no situation. If Sakurai was randomly choosing characters for the game, then yes, Ness would have a 50% chance. However, Sakurai is not randomly choosing characters. He picks each one for a reason.
That is faaaaar different than 50%. His chances at this point are logically either 0% or 100% since Sakurai has already decided all the characters. Or, if you're still trying to predcit, it's probably closer to a 35-40% chance of Ness returning given all the evidence against him.
But it's not like flipping a coin. It's not "he's either in or not, thus 50% chance". Otherwise, Tails, Colonel (from MGS), Goomba, Like-like, Slippy, and Tangela all have a 50% chance to be in as well, which is absolutley ridiculous.
Don't insult Sakurai like that.

However, if you meant "The evidence for him being in is exactly equal to the evidence for him being removed" (which is wrong), then you could logically say "it seems like a 50% chance".





Also, the Japanese site uses the same ambigious wording as the English site so NO HELP THERE.

If Marth can bring Fire Emblem series to the states, why can't Lucas be a new and more cuter look to the Earthbound/Mother series?

If only Lucas being in was a sign of Mother 3 coming...
That, however, is extremely unlikely at this point it seems.
Lucas is definitley a nice addition but it'd be nice to see Ness in as well because he's a cool and (somewhat) different character.

 

[Hydde]

But i have a question regarding the wording used by sakurai.

When you say "until now".... is like saying that the subject of the sentence was before but is not now?.... or is like saying that he was before in the game and is till IN the game (because of the word "now")?

 

[DekuBoy]

No. He want's to update the series? Fine. But don't expect me to buy his 'update'. That's right. If Ness doesn't return then I'll stick with Melee. Sakurai's updates are destroying the heart and soul of Smash.
Who likes Wario's new costume? Not me. Who likes the prospect of a 2 time veteran being kicked out of a series for a 'update'? not me. if Captain Falcon was kicked out of the game you would all complain.
I'm very angry at the people showing no support, the people who've given up and mostly Sakurai.

 

[plasmatorture]

But i have a question regarding the wording used by sakurai.

When you say "until now".... is like saying that the subject of the sentence was before but is not now?.... or is like saying that he was before in the game and is till IN the game (because of the word "now")?

It can mean both.

 

[T-Nice]

No. He want's to update the series? Fine. But don't expect me to buy his 'update'. That's right. If Ness doesn't return then I'll stick with Melee. Sakurai's updates are destroying the heart and soul of Smash.
Who likes Wario's new costume? Not me. Who likes the prospect of a 2 time veteran being kicked out of a series for a 'update'? not me. if Captain Falcon was kicked out of the game you would all complain.
I'm very angry at the people showing no support, the people who've given up and mostly Sakurai.

Dude... seriously, Ness is cool... and I bet you Ness will still be in the game (as a trophy like they did in Melee for like history classic junk), but why can't you see it like Ness was in one story, he finished his fight, and he can retire and become classic? Your talking like he will forever be forgotten?

I bet you Deku; you wouldn't be so "inlove" with Ness if Sakurai kicked him out in Melee and brought in Lucas would you; would you still be playing the 64 version still?

 

[DekuBoy]

actually I would. I prefer Veterans to Newcomers. Oh by the way I'm not in any way argueing with you or fighting or anything I'm just trying to keep up the appeal for Ness to return.

 

[SirPenguin]

No. He want's to update the series? Fine. But don't expect me to buy his 'update'. That's right. If Ness doesn't return then I'll stick with Melee. Sakurai's updates are destroying the heart and soul of Smash.
Who likes Wario's new costume? Not me. Who likes the prospect of a 2 time veteran being kicked out of a series for a 'update'? not me. if Captain Falcon was kicked out of the game you would all complain.
I'm very angry at the people showing no support, the people who've given up and mostly Sakurai.

Stop overreacting, you big baby. He's not destroying the heart and soul of Smash. Hell, this game will have more elements of a "Smash" game than the other two. This game is a combination of SSB64 and Melee, and is probably the vision Sakurai had all along.

No one cares about Wario's costume, and Ness should have been replaced in Melee, and would have been if given enough development time.

 

[Wolffe]

HOW2 JAPANESE - SMASH BROS. DOJO EDITION Anonymous 11/08/07(Thu)12:57 No.7802770

>>7802541

STEP-BY-STEP GUIDE

1. いままでのスマブラシリーズ - The mistranslated bit is right at the start. "いままで" on its own literally means 'until now'. The mix up comes from the fact they talked about NESS in relation to 'until now', where the sentence ACTUALLY says 'To now's smash brother's series' literally translated. Put into english, that's 'The previous smash brother's games'. The next part に登場していた“ネス”というキャラクターがいます is mentioning the character Ness, emerging (i.e. coming) from the previous games.
が、リュカはそれに近いです。The final bit - [There is a character] close to him - Lucas.

tl;dr yet again, 'until now' should have been 'previous smash brothers games have'

Japanese

Anonymous 11/08/07(Thu)12:49 No.7802580

Let me translate the french version:

You've known Ness since his first appearances in the SSB Series. You will quickly adopt Lucas. They both belong in the same PK characters family.

But they totally don't have the same physical attacks. What I mean: their standard attacks are different.

French

Anonymous 11/08/07(Thu)13:06 No.7802974

>>7802925

un personaje que apareció en anteriores ediciones de Smash Bros. - A character that appeared in previous editions of Smash Bros.

Spanish

The English was the only one badly translated. The 'until now' was completely unjustified hype, and the fact that Lucas is just another clone character is no reason to assume that Ness is out either. Big whoop, Melee had hundreds of the dratted things!

tl;dr, There is no more evidence that Ness isn't still in the game than there was before

 

[Yojimbo]

Destroying the heart and soul of Smash? Which is what, nostalgia? How does Lucas detract from this other than he's from a more recent game? Its Mother; something not nearly as popular as the major franchises that are represented. He's stretching it to bring all kinds of fighters into Brawl. This is Sakurai's game, I highly doubt he'd give Ness the boot for no reason.

 

[vesperview]

Why is this needed? Sakurai says Ness is gone in the update himself and there are like 5 threads discussing this in the Character Discussion forums.