Lucario's TTR Thread

[D. Disciple]

Lucario’s TTR

Theory/Test/Results

As you all know there are a lot of ideas out there, on how to make a character better. Well they are at times theory crafted or actually been proven, but mainly theory crafted. Also I have seen many times whenever someone comes up with an idea on how to punish with a move, or find different uses, we get other users saying it won’t work, it doesn’t work, blah…blah…blah… This is why I’ve decided to create this topic. You may notice that this seems similar to RJ’s old punish thread, but this is more than just trying to find ways to punish.

Main Purpose:

The purpose of this thread is to see what looks good on paper, and test it out to see if it can work in an actual match. We can’t really say “I did this in training mode.” No, it’s time to see what works and what doesn’t. We need to know if it works on a certain character or all characters, is it stage dependent, can we do it at any percent opponents and ours. What would be our alternates?

Goal:

I feel if we can get a nice list of data, we can finally get an actual meta game for Lucario. So anyone who does decide to pick up Lucario, can come in here read this topic and be well informed in what Lucario should be doing in general then they can move on from that.

Format:
Name:
usages:
Characters it works on:
Stages it works on:
description:
Video:
​

 

[D. Disciple]

2nd Post is going to be used for character list and editing.

Bowser

Captain Falcon

Diddy Kong

Donkey Kong

Falco

Fox

Game & Watch

Ganondorf

Ice Climbers

Ike

Jigglypuff

King Dedede

Kirby

Link

Lucario

Lucas

Luigi

Mario

Marth

Meta Knight

Ness

Olimar

Peach

Pikachu

Pit

Squirtle

Ivysaur

Charizard

ROB

Samus

Sheik

Snake

Sonic

Toon Link

Wario

Wolf

Yoshi

Zelda

Zero Suit Samus

 

[culexus・wau]

Name: Force Palm giant punch
usages: Not getting giant punched.
Characters it works on: DK
Stages it works on: Universal
description: Force Palm DAT GIANT PUNCH
Video: N/A

It works I swear.

You Grab DK

Take 20% and then Force Palm him.

 

[Zucco]

Wow how ironic. I was just playing wifi(YES I WAS PLAYING WIFI) and during a teams set I was playing against TeeVee's Wario and wellvvvvvvvv

Name: Dtilt combo on SV Platform
usages: Racking up damage yo!
Characters it works on: not sure..... perhaps the heavies/fastfallers
Stages it works on: SV only
description: linking a bunch of Dtilts together at low % and than finishing with a grab or something.
Video: nope

I got like 3 hits on him and than a grab(I did a pivot grab). I know its wifi but it may be something to look into.

 

[D. Disciple]

That's sweet, I'll try to test this out tomorrow. Thanks for contributing so far you two.

 

[culexus・wau]

I'll look into that once I get my color cables back.

 

[Aurasmash14]

nice idea D.

ill contribute the moment i find something. or get out of my furryphobia.

 

[Vionce]

Name: DT predictable recoveries
usages: guarantee a hit using DT
Characters it works on: Ike (and i guess anyone with lots of landing lag on a recovery move)

Stages it works on: any where ike must use up special to recover

description: when ike is below the stage and uses up special, use dt (while the sword is on the way up) and if he lands on stage then you'll hit him. If you mess up the timing and use DT too late, it is possible for ike to block. I have not tried to use this on his side special, but i think it would work if you DT in the air.

Video:

@FlameWaveK wouldn't it be better to just block? i mean the worst scenario is that he lost his giant punch and the best is that you power shielded it and can smash/AS

 

[culexus・wau]

Name: DT predictable recoveries
usages: guarantee a hit using DT
Characters it works on: Ike (and i guess anyone with lots of landing lag on a recovery move)

Stages it works on: any where ike must use up special to recover

description: when ike is below the stage and uses up special, use dt (while the sword is on the way up) and if he lands on stage then you'll hit him. If you mess up the timing and use DT too late, it is possible for ike to block. I have not tried to use this on his side special, but i think it would work if you DT in the air.

Video:

@FlameWaveK wouldn't it be better to just block? i mean the worst scenario is that he lost his giant punch and the best is that you power shielded it and can smash/AS

Giant Punch is safe on block ussually, full charge.

I like grabbing hitboxes.

makes me wonder why I don't play DDD.

 

[D. Disciple]

Vionce have you tried doing to Dedede as well, like putting up your shield then DT out of shield before he lands. I knew that tactic would come across soon enough, but I didn't want to be the one to post it lol. Keep it up guys. Even if it's in theory we can test it out to see if it actually works out or not, that's the point of this thread.

 

[phi1ny3]

I've DT'd Ike's before, it's usually better to AS it, but if you're sure it'll kill, it's pretty funny.

 

[xxpatgxx]

Lucario's biggest problem is landing back on the stage right? I get fancy with the RAS and although it looks nice and all, I was using it randomly and stupidly. I only play Zero Suit Samus and lucario seriously, but I was playing snake for fun in set with some lvl 9s. Snake usually needs his pivot nade landing to trick opponents into where he is going to land, so he can land safely. I realized lucario should use his RAS to trick his opponents so he can land safely as well. I would imagine this would help mostly in the fight against snake, one of lucario's tougher matchups. I hope I helped.

 

[phi1ny3]

Actually, that's also a good tactic against jugglers with better uairs than Lucario's dair, or better mobility/flexibility in juggling.

 

[hichez50]

Name: uptilt psuedo chain grab
usages: juggling fastfast fallers
Characters it works on:Fox
Stages it works on:All. Works best on stages with no or high platforms
description: Grab your opponent while their damage is less than 10%. Then from there perform 2 upthrows then a uptilt. To my knowledge the 2 upthrows always work no matter what percent you are. Depending on how they DI and what percent they are you can get a 3 grab and throw them in any direction you want.
Video:N/A

 

[culexus・wau]

Name: TURNIP COMBO
Usages: looking cool
Characters it works on: universal [requires peach's turnips]
Stages: Universal
description:
z-catch turnip.
sh dthrow
instant toss dthrow
nair/dair

 

[phi1ny3]

^Yes, I need to try this against some people I know (aka "is" of the "Prax")

 

[culexus・wau]

You're better off using the turnips to punish OOS imo

that being said you look cool while doing this

 

[D. Disciple]

I almost forgot about this, but I wanted to see if I can get some people to test this out. I will as well but it's always good to get other people to as well, so we can like cover all kind of options. Anyway, from the post that BJ made that you can smash DI in shield. I see this as a very useful tactic for all characters, especially for us with our aura base character that we have. It could help us in using a lot more moves to punish out of shield than what we have already or to retreat from attacks especially in teams when you're in a 2v1 situation.

So can I get some people to help out with this, I'll make sure to edit the post above if we find a lot of uses for it, and if you don't know how to do it I posted the quote.

so Yaz, GangstaKirby, and I were all playing brawl minus the other day and gkirbz and yaz were doin some one on one falcon vs d3 when gkirbz powershielded d3's gaydiculous inhale, desperate to get out of it and its godly shieldstun he started mashing all sorts of things including the c-stick, and he actually moved while shielded... and not just alil but alot, enough to get out of d3's inhale... after some testing we found it to be the C-stick, which we later tested this InShieldSmashDI on bowsers flame breath in regular brawl... and it worked, the captain falcon slowly sliding out of fire range damage free

so credit goes to gangstakirby for discovering IPSSDI/ISSDI and hopefully this gets put to good use and changes the defensive game of brawl

 

[culexus・wau]

If you mess up while doing it

you roll

but

we're lucario

so we're probably gonna do that OOS anyway.

so try it out guys!

lets be the 1st characters to master this

 

[Kitamerby]

Shield SDI has been around all the way since Smash 64 and was your only hope of getting away from ***by and the Amazing Uptilt.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Something funny I didn't know until I killed Havok with it a little bit ago... usmash hits MK through the bottom of tornado at ~40% and above.

 

[Rayku]

Double Team is guaranteed against Zelda's recovery. Ike's will just make you go offstage (and they shouldn't be landing on the stage anyway)

 

[phi1ny3]

iirc it depends on the stage, ones like FD and YI make Ike's recovery "pop up", others like SV and BF won't let you do this though

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Shield SDI has been around all the way since Smash 64 and was your only hope of getting away from ***by and the Amazing Uptilt.

Shield DI/SDI is imperative to maximizing the horizontal distance of Air Walking/Rising DAir. It might be useful looking into it vs. moves like Snake's UTilt.

Seriously, if we master this tech we will be able to punish a lot of kill moves that just hit our shield better. Ex. Marth's non-tippered FSmash and a lot of annoying FAirs.

 

[D. Disciple]

Exactly what I was thinking Myth, thank you! Sadly, I can't really get much stuff tested, hopefully I can find someone to help me out with a lot of things on friday. I need to update this list soon anyway.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Also...

Name: Grabbing Snake's first FTilt
Usages: See above
Characters it works on: Ekans

Also in terms of shield DI... You do not have to perfect shield that FTilt for it to work. If you guys actually learned shield DI you'd know that you get a slight boost (90% sure) in grab range, but you have to be somewhat close. I think you might be able to grab him without shield DI, but it becomes even more tighter.

Shh don't tell Ice Climbers mains.

HEY GUYS LOOK TWO THINGS WITH SHIELD DI! Learn it, please.

Oh and... I might've discovered a new tech. This is unconfirmed, however.

Name: Walk on the Minion to get to the Leader
Usages: DAir pikmin with horizontal movement
Characters it works on: Oli oli oxenfree

Not 100% sure how this works, but if you DAir a pikmin at the right time you move horizontally. Kills one of those annoying things and gets you closer to Olimar, so might be worth looking into.

 

[phi1ny3]

Name: ???
Usages: Allows many more options out of ASC, including glidetoss, usmash, DT, aerials, spotdodge, etc.
Characters it works on: Lucario, Samus

Description:
So this is the whole rehashed thing I was talking about
This was something Ninjalink brought up like two years ago, but went ignored. It's basically shield canceling AS into aerials/JC shenanigans (like usmash or DT, which are more situational). However, the speed at which you can do this is incredible because jumping cancels shield drop lag, as seen in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20h488IePbA#t=0m07s
The application for this is pretty nice, because while charging you're normally only given a few limited options (roll, grab, firing, or shield). With this you get faster responses and can get a bit more creative with maximizing your "down time" when you aren't being pressured and can charge a little, but at the same time offers some more flexibility.

edit: You can also do a buffered spotdodge as well w/o the shield, I forgot that lol.

edit: Samus can do the same thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTyFkkV3Gkc

I mention this because there's another thing you can do out of shield I forgot, you can glidetoss.

 

[Kitamerby]

Uh, bro.

It works on everyone who can cancel or shield cancel their projectile

As such, it works with Diddy, ROB, etc.

It's not even really an AT or anything. It's just using a simple mechanic of the move.

 

[phi1ny3]

Oh yeah, forgot.

Also includes Peach, Link/TL, etc.

but Lucario and samus are ones that don't have an "item" based projectile that can use this.

 

[Kitamerby]

What?

No, bro. ROB's DownB is shield cancelable, and so is Diddy's Peanut.

 

[phi1ny3]

Those too, but they're still "items" so to speak.

/beingnitpicky

 

[culexus・wau]

Ya kno

I think shield canceling AS into jumps and whatnot should be a lucario basic.

I mean really.

 

[phi1ny3]

But it isn't...

I've only seen top lucarios like Zucco use it, and the reality is, people really think you're a sitting duck when you charge your AS, hence why some dumb people will still hold shield in front of you ASC, and you can grab em instead of them reading a shield or roll.

 

[culexus・wau]

I use it

Stauffy uses it [not that he's not a top player]

... I think pitbull uses it.

Kita uses it.


it should be basic + in the guide imo

its a good, quick way to speed up your game.

 

[D. Disciple]

But it isn't...

I've only seen top lucarios like Zucco use it, and the reality is, people really think you're a sitting duck when you charge your AS, hence why some dumb people will still hold shield in front of you ASC, and you can grab em instead of them reading a shield or roll.

Ahem....I use it too.

 

[culexus・wau]

and d too

sorry d =(

I think D is the most forgotten lucario

kinda bad on my part because I go to him for advice LOL

 

[D. Disciple]

I need to go to more tournies -_-'

 

[Kitamerby]

I love how it's such a big de-

...wait flamey what the hell are you implying?

 

[culexus・wau]

N othing.

 

[Kitamerby]

N othing.

You filthy liar. Don't evade the question.