Lucario's overall changes in Smash 4

[Masonomace]

Oh snap, nair wasn't on the list.

Yeah, it ends faster, so you won't fall to your death when you use it offstage. Hooray.

That flash is visual indicator that AS has fully charged I believe. A lot of moves in the game now have visual indicators, which is a nice feature.

Right on, I dig the visual indication, Sakurai did well with informing us this way through a lot of elements in the game too. Quick request to ask ya in case you're still testing:

Did you happen to recall Lucario's buffered SH+D-air input any different from Brawl?

 

[RT]

His kill potential is pretty much as garbage as it was in Brawl if he has no Aura. I will test though.

Right on, I dig the visual indication, Sakurai did well with informing us this way through a lot of elements in the game too. Quick request to ask ya in case you're still testing:

Did you happen to recall Lucario's buffered SH+D-air input any different from Brawl?

I'll check.

 

[RT]

Kill potential is garbage at low/no Aura

Confirmed you can still wallcling after ExtremeSpeed, still cannot use again afterwards until you land. But it might not be necessary on most stages now...

 

[SmashRacer]

Kill potential is garbage at low/no Aura

Thank you for finding out
Besides that. He really looks like has changed
Up air looks like its faster, and nair have almost no cooldown. Down Smash looks like it had got a range buff

Just curious
Does his side b grab in the air?

 

[RT]

It does not grab in the air.

 

[Gune]

Most likely one of his side B variations will air grab or primarily be a grab, Thanks for the rundown @ RT .

 

[sunfallSeraph]

Has there been any footage or written info about Lucario's customs? Inquiring minds would like to know. :b

 

[RT]

I'll check to see if any custom moves have been unlocked. Definitely no promises.

 

[Kami~]

Thanks for all the infooo

is side b chains on heavier chars still a thing? lol
is it breakable?

 

[AlexoftheAura]

Got some requests for stuff to test if you get a chance

Don't forget to tell the people to check for:
-Lucario's Aurasphere Charge being able to have the 1F shield on landing ala Snake Grenade Landing -> Shield (Important because airdodge into shield nerf)
-And if Held Jab still doesn't do **** if it whiffs, but still autocombos on hit
-Oh and the thing where if you're in force palm's grab start-up in the air but if you land it will grab them that wasn't common knowledge until really late into brawl for some reason

 

[RT]

One custom UpB gives Lucario his old distance from Brawl, but it is an active hitbox the entire move and the end part is a strong launcher. Pretty good kill move with Aura.

One custom SideB make the startup much slower, but the range is INSANE. Knockback and damage does scale with Aura. I'll try to get a screenshot, but it will make custom moves...probably NOT legal. Grab seems unchanged. The other one makes him have startup and then sort of teleport a set distance, then he does the FP move. Imagine Falcon's Raptor Boost but mixed with Force Palm at the end. You can still grab people if you space it.

One Custom DownB makes Lucario stun the opponent in place on hit, kind of like getting hit by a powerful move to follow up with something else. Pretty unique.

Got some requests for stuff to test if you get a chance

Don't forget to tell the people to check for:
-Lucario's Aurasphere Charge being able to have the 1F shield on landing ala Snake Grenade Landing -> Shield (Important because airdodge into shield nerf)

If you charge while holding shield, it will come out as soon as you land.

*EDIT* Pic

 

[Gune]

What percent was that gigapalm at?

 

[RT]

If I recall, it was like near max Aura. Even with decent Aura, it has extremely huge range at the cost of more startup.

That's all the contributions I have, sorry I couldn't answer every question. Sorry if any mistakes or if I made something unclear/deceiving. It's hard to describe without having pics or vids. Hopefully someone who owns a Japanese copy can give better analysis...otherwise, this will have to do for now.

I guess I'll be more useful again in three more weeks...

*Edit* Changed some info in first impressions post.

 

[Gune]

Well jeez that is pretty amazing!

 

[juice.Zucco]

Some other custom moves not mentioned I believe

Aura sphere
one travels extremely fast and goes through enemies when hitting them but has terrible damage

the second custom are extremely slow aura spheres. they can suck the enemy in if they are close enough and can hit up to 3 times I believe(at least the fully charged ones).

extreme speed
Lucario loses the hitbox but in exchange he goes extremely far to the point where you have to wonder who designed this thing. its slower than the others but the distance is rediculous.

double team
Lucario does the animation for the double team but instead of it being a counter, lucario initiates an attack the shoots a small pillar of aura from the ground. This attack is invincible.

 

[ChillySundance]

I really really want someone to test the damaging portion of his Up B now. That's super interesting to me and I'm curious to find out if it has any practical applications.

 

[Masonomace]

Lucario's custom specials confirmed BANNED. Some of the variations of his specials seem plausible to be tournament legal, but most of them sound & imagined seem too good to be legal.

It's not as practical to use anymore due to the ledge-mechanics now, but perhaps the Extreme-hog is still intact? To ask more, how bad is the RCO lag?

@ RT & @ juice.Zucco Did you guys recall the usage of Lucario's custom specials differing properties-wise when used airborne? Such as that Lucario DownB variation of the Aura Pillar rising from the ground, I'd like to know if that appears mid-air or something crazy along with the other special variations.

EDIT: I watched a video of recovering with Falcon Dive, & he ledge-jumped onto the stage landing. He had no RCO Lag whatsoever. My question about RCO Lag being bad is moot due to RCO Lag apparently not existing anymore.
HYESZ! No more ES RCO Lag (hoping).

 

[Zwzchow]

Extremespeed flying is so scary lol

 

[juice.Zucco]

Lucario's custom specials confirmed BANNED. Some of the variations of his specials seem plausible to be tournament legal, but most of them sound & imagined seem too good to be legal.

It's not as practical to use anymore due to the ledge-mechanics now, but perhaps the Extreme-hog is still intact? To ask more, how bad is the RCO lag?

@ RT & @ juice.Zucco Did you guys recall the usage of Lucario's custom specials differing properties-wise when used airborne? Such as that Lucario DownB variation of the Aura Pillar rising from the ground, I'd like to know if that appears mid-air or something crazy along with the other special variations.

EDIT: I watched a video of recovering with Falcon Dive, & he ledge-jumped onto the stage landing. He had no RCO Lag whatsoever. My question about RCO Lag being bad is moot due to RCO Lag apparently not existing anymore.
HYESZ! No more ES RCO Lag (hoping).

the extreme hog is in the game but feels harder to do. As you said though, I dont see much reason to use it in this game.

As for custom moves, they all pretty much act the same. I made a mistake last night in saying that the aura pillar comes from the ground, but its actually his hand....which is not even close to the ground so I guess I just wasnt paying attention lol. hand is at the height of where that chest spike and has like a 70 degree angle or something. Works the same in the air. The force palm that dashes before you grab someone can be used in the air and sort of gives lucario an airdash. doesnt grab but still has the other hitbox to damage. can be used multiple times and still get the dash, but the startup and recovery lead to it not being spamable for recovery. You dont go into helpless state though, so it can definitely be used to change some momentum when you are high up safely.

 

[RT]

For the most part, they are interesting but hardly better. Only few stick out as being straight upgrades. Some characters have downright garbage replacements. Just depends on what you think.

 

[juice.Zucco]

The range on standard force palm grab is nerfed. Im pretty sure it has less grab range than his regular grab now, or very close to it.

Also, I dont believe lucario is affected by stocks anymore. its really annoying testing this on cpus, but at 95% my full charged aura sphere did 23% at both 3 stocks to 3 and 1 stock to 3.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Can anyone confirm if Lucario's ground movement speed is quicker? It looks like he runs a little hastier this time around, but just wanna double check.

EDIT: In fact, how do his stats feel in general? Ya know, like weight, fall speed, traction, all that good stuff. I know it's too early to be super exact, but just a general idea would be nice to know. I still have to wait for this game. ;~;

 

[RT]

The range on standard force palm grab is nerfed. Im pretty sure it has less grab range than his regular grab now, or very close to it.

Also, I dont believe lucario is affected by stocks anymore. its really annoying testing this on cpus, but at 95% my full charged aura sphere did 23% at both 3 stocks to 3 and 1 stock to 3.

I had the same findings when I tested. It's pretty much guaranteed to be out. No more amazing comebacks from one stock.

 

[Masonomace]

Right on thanks @ juice.Zucco & @ RT . All that I & Alex wanna know for now is:

Does the F1FP exist? In any cross-up or set-up would it string correctly?

EDIT: Scratch that, I'd also like to know if these are in Sm4sh:

• EA
• FPCG (highly doubtful with what changes they made to grab chains) also asked by Kami

EDIT#2: And finally do we have a ASC mix-up option when pressing & simsimultaneously

 

[Gune]

I had the same findings when I tested. It's pretty much guaranteed to be out. No more amazing comebacks from one stock.

But this also means no debuff right?

 

[RT]

Yeah, there won't be a debuff.

 

[Karnu]

Watching this shiz

 

[Masonomace]

Wait. There's something I just realized that I'd love to know.

What's the change in Lucario Footstooling off shields? In Brawl it was simply jumping off their shields at a great height that could be canceled by Dair. So I'd like to know if Lucario foot-jumping off shields to Double Dair pressure shields is perhaps good?

Oh, & SH > Fair > Nair or Dair? I haven't seen either done yet, I'm assuming it can't be done, but at least Nair is more believable. Idk if Nair auto-cancels-ish upon landing, it'd be awesome if it still does.

 

[Vanargand]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but you cannot Reverse Aura Sphere anymore with Lucario. His momentum stays the same no matter what.

Edit: You can still reverse direction fire with Aura Sphere though. It's just a little bit tougher with the circle pad.

Edit 2: NAir autocancels upon hitting the ground. Assuming you're facing the opponent with low %, you can actually do several short hops > NAirs. Though, it has a strange chance to trip for some reason.

Edit 3: Short hop into Fair, land, short hop into Fair works at low to mid percents.

 

[RT]

Nair had a trip to chance to trip in Brawl as well. It just wasn't well observed by most people because Aura affected it quickly.

In general, Aura has been severely nerfed. You have to be at a high percent before you start noticing a huge difference. And it doesn't turn a lot of moves into a kill moves. I feel Smash 4 for the most part only let's you KO people with a move that is designed to KO. Otherwise, you need to get them to a higher percent before the move will KO.

 

[Sunnysunny]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but you cannot Reverse Aura Sphere anymore with Lucario. His momentum stays the same no matter what.

NOo!
I AM GOING TO CRY

 

[Kami~]

Wait. There's something I just realized that I'd love to know.

Oh, & SH > Fair > Nair or Dair? I haven't seen either done yet, I'm assuming it can't be done, but at least Nair is more believable. Idk if Nair auto-cancels-ish upon landing, it'd be awesome if it still does.

If fair - shorthop - fair works(though idk if this is even true or not)i'd assume fair links into those aerials but no ones straight up confirmed it
som1 pls confirm fair - nair/fair - dair are true cambos

 

[Masonomace]

If fair - shorthop - fair works(though idk if this is even true or not)i'd assume fair links into those aerials but no ones straight up confirmed it
som1 pls confirm fair - nair/fair - dair are true cambos

I was watching Reikou's stream earlier & asked to help confirm them or not.

The only SH double aerial that works is SH > Fair > Dair.
SH > Fair > any aerial that's not Dair doesn't come out quick enough strung all together.

 

[Zoa]

I was watching Reikou's stream earlier & asked to help confirm them or not.

The only SH double aerial that works is SH > Fair > Dair.
SH > Fair > any aerial that's not Dair doesn't come out quick enough strung all together.

So this means we'll have to burn our DJ after a fair to hit with another move, correct?

 

[Masonomace]

So this means we'll have to burn our DJ after a fair to hit with another move, correct?

To attempt chasing them airbrorne with more aerials, yes. Fair sends them in a weird direction making it combo-able early %, & fairly difficult to land aerials to aerials past low %.

 

[Zoa]

To attempt chasing them airbrorne with more aerials, yes. Fair sends them in a weird direction making it combo-able early %, & fairly difficult to land aerials to aerials past low %.

Oh wow. That sucks. Thanks for the information.

Edit: Out of curiosity, what is the angle exactly? I think we may see more uair strings now that fair took that huge of a hit compared to Brawl.

 

[CrowGoesCaw]

It seems wierd that they increase the ability of most of the cast to combo, and yet one of the characters who already could combo has lost them. Going to have to experiment a bit by the sounds of it to figure out the best way to play Lucario.

 

[Gune]

So with what we've seen so far is the competitive scene looking good for lucario? or do we need more testing and observing first?

 

[Kami~]

So with what we've seen so far is the competitive scene looking good for lucario? or do we need more testing and observing first?

That's way too early to judge with any character in my opinion

 

[Reikou]

To be honest, after playing him for a while, I feel he falls in mid-low tier. I just feel that he is a bit too slow.

Top-tier being ZSS, Shiek, Bowser and the like.
High being Fox, Little Mac, Dr. Mario