Lucario's overall changes in Smash 4

[Kami~]

All of Shulk's (A) attacks do 1% more. His jab combo does 3-4-5 damage for a total of 12%.

Also, maybe it's just me, but I don't really feel any immediate jumps of differences with Lucario post patch, unless they made the landing lag for missing a ledge sweetspot with extremespeed worse (it feels like they made it much worse, but at the same time, you're almost never landing like this).

If they did nerf aura, I think someone else is gonna need to test it extensively. At around 160% for Lucario, and 60% for the opponent (Little Mac as the test dummy), any smash from center stage insta-KOs, force palm grab needs the opponent to be at like 80%ish for an instant KO from center stage. At around 120% for Lucario, and around 40% for the opponent, you're not KOing them from center stage, but smashes still do a lot of knockback from center stage. Back-air is respectable knockback, as is the FP grab so.... I dunno.

Recovery might be slightly worse? I dunno, you still shoot off into space around 70%+.



EDIT: I tried matching up a few numbers with the aura scaling chart made by Myth, I don't have time to do all of it, but from what I tested, the % dealt hasn't really changed. So I think we're going to have to look at knockback differences if anything. Lucario isn't exactly the type to KO from the center of the stage without smashes anyway.

Also it seems like the first two hits of the jab connect with each other better, but the third hit is still dumb and requires you to slow down your jab combo to make sure all three hits connect when you and your opponent are at like >60%.

His jab is still trash, dunno why you think it changed. His upb freefall landing is worse. That's all anyone has seen so far

 

[HitokiriBattousai]

a tip for Lucario Up B post patch if coming down towards the stage with it come in at a diagonal if done right you'll move towards the ground straiten out and be on the ground as the move ends and deal with far less lag then you would have from going straight down and also have the added bonus of chancing a hit with the end of up B

anyway that is what i had started to do after playing around with Up B post patch in training

 

[Space thing]

So before I updated to 1.04, I checked the max launch distance against 150% Mario with most of Lucario's moves at 0%, 100% and 200% to compare with potential changes from the patch. Specifically, I fallowed these instructions suggested by Pikabunz in the Patch thread:

All you have to do is set lvl 1 cpu Mario's damage to 150% (for more accurate data) and at the start of the match use the move you want to test on Mario once and quit the match. Look through stats in the results screen and find Max Launcher Speed and write that number down. Do this for every move you want to test.

The results are below. I have not done any testing after the patch outside of a few moves like Bair and Force Palm Grab, which appear to be the same. If someone would like to use these to confirm if there are any changes or not with his moves, feel free. Unless I made some mistake, all results were with the sweat spot of the move and if they were a multi-hit move, all parts hit in the test, except for Nair and Jab. The ~ indicates that I might have made a slight mistake and the number should be taken with a grain of salt. I did not get the result for DT at 100%. I did get one for 113% (stupid AI) which is 200.

Move used, Lucario|Launch Speed at 0%|Launch Speed at 100%|Launch Speed at 200%
Jab-1|39|45|53
Jab-2|41|47|54
Jab-3|80~|101|125~
Dash Attack|93|127|164
Ftilt|84|117|153
Dtilt|78|107|140
Utilt|92|128|146
Fsmash|137|229|345
Dsmash|113|193|282
Usmash|120|206|218
Fair|89|115|142
Bair|119|200|295
Dair|93|129|168
Uair|106|170|216
Nair|76|118|164
Fthrow|80|106|134
Bthrow|76|109|147
Dthrow|82|98|114
Uthrow|84|110|139
FC Aura Sphere|99|165|246
Force Palm Flame|72~|104~|140~
Force Palm Grab|119|181|252
Double Team|124|???|233
Extreme Speed|99|133|169

 

[Pentao]

a tip for Lucario Up B post patch if coming down towards the stage with it come in at a diagonal if done right you'll move towards the ground straiten out and be on the ground as the move ends and deal with far less lag then you would have from going straight down and also have the added bonus of chancing a hit with the end of up B

anyway that is what i had started to do after playing around with Up B post patch in training

If it works how I think it does, Extreme Speed fires out Aura from Lucario's paws in order to jettison himself forward. If he still has aura to expend while going toward a platform, he can continue to use it to slide along the floor, or, if the angle is right, slam into the platform and bounce up a bit.

Also something to note is that Ride the Wind and Extreme Speed Attack both have significantly lower landing lag if you choose to land on the stage. Ride the Wind's landing lag is similar to Lucario's pre-patch helpless landing lag, while ExtremeSpeed Attack has the fewest frames, looking like any other character's landing lag from a recovery move.

 

[HitokiriBattousai]

If it works how I think it does, Extreme Speed fires out Aura from Lucario's paws in order to jettison himself forward. If he still has aura to expend while going toward a platform, he can continue to use it to slide along the floor, or, if the angle is right, slam into the platform and bounce up a bit.

Also something to note is that Ride the Wind and Extreme Speed Attack both have significantly lower landing lag if you choose to land on the stage. Ride the Wind's landing lag is similar to Lucario's pre-patch helpless landing lag, while ExtremeSpeed Attack has the fewest frames, looking like any other character's landing lag from a recovery move.

if you slide along the floor the lag is near to pre patch levels but if you bounce off the floor you get the normal 1.04 landing lag

 

[Pentao]

When I say bounce, I mean when you literally slam against a platform hard enough that Lucario looks like a canonball, not when he swerves back up.

 

[HitokiriBattousai]

When I say bounce, I mean when you literally slam against a platform hard enough that Lucario looks like a canonball, not when he swerves back up.

yea i get what you are saying now

 

[HitokiriBattousai]

messing around with the changes from VI to DI for upward knockback and was curious if

UP throw>Short hop Bair is a true combo now? (or was it always?) works from around 9% and beyond range though once they start getting up there % wise you'll need a full hop to chase them down with the Bair


whole reason im asking is with how hard Bair scales with Aura being up to U Throw>Shorthop Bair could be very handy

 

[RT]

Throws were indirectly buffed because they removed the vector stuff.

 

[Croi]

Uthrow hits pretty hard, so if they're at a low enough percentage to combo into bair, you'd be safer with uair.

But hey, whatever hits you land, more power to you.

 

[HitokiriBattousai]

Uthrow hits pretty hard, so if they're at a low enough percentage to combo into bair, you'd be safer with uair.

But hey, whatever hits you land, more power to you.

yea i know Uair would be safer but Bair scales harder with aura so when you are at high % Bair would be a more risky but the harder hitting option


also it seems back throw Ftilt can combo at low % (anything below 14%)

 

[HeWhoCanSee]

Are we aware that Lucario's non-grab Side B can hit him if it's reflected? Even at the move's maximum range, it seems like Lucario gets hit if the move hits a reflector, like a shine or a cape. The best I can figure is that when the attack's hitbox changes ownership, Lucario's hand is still inside of it.

 

[RT]

It's treated like a projectile, so logically, if you're close enough for it to be reflected, then you are close enough for it to hit you back.

 

[Kami~]

Alright lucario's upb got another nerf on wiiu

in 3ds version you can sort of ram your face into the side of the stage and lucario will auto snap to the ledge, you hardly need to even aim lol.

in WiiU he'll hit the side of the stage and only go up a small distance before falling down and dying.So he goes into a freefall state when he hits an edge, goes up a small bit, (cant grab the ledge for a bit for some reason) then he'll fall down and rip.


So it's not a big nerf but you have to be more careful when aiming for ledges because hitting the side of stages can cost you now.
And i'm pretty sure its already been mentioned but the aerials cancelled into upb is gone of course

 

[Jaxas]

Alright lucario's upb got another nerf on wiiu

in 3ds version you can sort of ram your face into the side of the stage and lucario will auto snap to the ledge, you hardly need to even aim lol.

in WiiU he'll hit the side of the stage and only go up a small distance before falling down and dying.So he goes into a freefall state when he hits an edge, goes up a small bit, (cant grab the ledge for a bit for some reason) then he'll fall down and rip.


So it's not a big nerf but you have to be more careful when aiming for ledges because hitting the side of stages can cost you now.
And i'm pretty sure its already been mentioned but the aerials cancelled into upb is gone of course

Ahh, that explains a few deaths this last Saturday.
That's a real shame, honestly...