Lucario's overall changes in Smash 4

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

So with what we've seen so far is the competitive scene looking good for lucario? or do we need more testing and observing first?

Too early for this.

I'll update the OP tonight with the info posted. I'm trying to make sure this is all verified and all as well as doing homework.

 

[Gune]

I kinda thought it was to early just making sure. Also is it me or does lucario seem more comfortable on the ground this time around?

 

[Sunnysunny]

Most defenitly. I was a little worried at first about the changes made to his aerials, wavebouncing, and fall speed, but his ground spacing moves look good enough to outspace the majority of the cast, and quick enough to still bully heavys when you get in.

I'll just have to adjust when I get the game.
regardless of how he plays Lucario's always my home dog yo. -w-

 

[Masonomace]

At one point in a stream, I noticed Zero or someone else doing an AAA jab string that quickly canceled the ending cooldown of Jab3 into FSmash, as if his Jab3 has IASA frames.

But yeah he feels good on the ground. Bigger FP Flame, his tilts execute the same way, but perhaps used a bit differently. I've seen characters run & pivot their Ftilts fairly well, especially this guy = . I wanna see use his dash canceled pivoted Dtilt, if that's able to be done. Hell even his Utilt looks & appears quick & amazing. I also wonder if FP is done in the same way as well, since running pivoted ASC may have been confirmed already.

 

[RT]

Regardless of what happens, just keep in mind to STOP ROLLING EXCESSIVELY.

It kills me to see vids of him, but then I just see roll spam. Enjoy getting a Villager Fsmash as a punish.

 

[Masonomace]

Regardless of what happens, just keep in mind to STOP ROLLING EXCESSIVELY.

It kills me to see vids of him, but then I just see roll spam. Enjoy getting a Villager Fsmash as a punish.

That's going to be hard telling people starting to play the game who didn't play Rollcario in Brawl. Really, hard. Rolls in general improved to be safer & quicker, so yeah. . .I see rolling as a huge input for 3DS due to everyone having to adjust to playing Smash on a handheld early, perhaps it will sink in slowly that Rollcario shouldn't be excessive.

 

[Zoa]

Lucario looks brutal in the range department now. It looks like he can keep up with projectile heavy characters from ZeRo's streams I've been watching.

Lucario already had the best dodges in Brawl. Now they're buffed? It's going to be REALLY tempting not to Riolu (bad pun I know) all over the place. I was definitely a Rollcario player for a majority of my Brawl days before deciding to improve my skill. Eating fsmashes should teach me not to do it after a while.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Regardless of what happens, just keep in mind to STOP ROLLING EXCESSIVELY.

It kills me to see vids of him, but then I just see roll spam. Enjoy getting a Villager Fsmash as a punish.

omfg. No offense to the last video that was posted in here, but every time he stopped attacking, he started rolling. And it's like. Just seeing rolls excessively being done in sequence gives me like an anxiety attack. Even when it's not in a battle. It's like, post was stress triggers man. Hah!

So hey. Something I noticed about his cute new little jab is the first strike has one hell of an arch. I don't have the game yet, so I can't figure it out, but does anyone know how early the hitbox starts? Because the animation suggest it could smack people way above him which would be kinda neat.

EDIT: Btw, if ya'll want a character who's actually rewarded for rolling, check out this early Palutena play. My god, those rolls really do look like one hell of a mind**** when mixed up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrU5v_pKGgg

 

[RT]

Trela confirmed that ALL moves scale with Aura. This includes bthrow and dash attack, but not all moves are effected equally.

How amusing.

 

[juice.Zucco]

I hate lucarios new jab. makes me not want to use him lol.

 

[Kami~]

I hate lucarios new jab. makes me not want to use him lol.

what's wrong with it? do they fall out of it a lot? I saw that happening with ike's jab

 

[juice.Zucco]

what's wrong with it? do they fall out of it a lot? I saw that happening with ike's jab

The jab combo barely works without them falling out and punishing you, though I hear that if you are RIGHT on top of them it wont, and it takes an incredibly long time to shield after you just jab once because jab cancels arent a thing I believe. just using dtilt seems like a better option but muscle memory and basic fighting game strategy leads me to want to jab all the time.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Hmm so max Aura Aura Sphere does 31% damage, and kills around 60 potentially. Nifty.

 

[HiFlo]

Found a pretty decent video of Lucario vs. Villager that shows off Lucario's faster smash attacks, faster Force Palm, down air, awesome new dash attack and more.

I have a question about something I saw in this video maybe someone can explain:
Start at 1:13 it happens in the few seconds after. Lucario does 2 consecutive ground dodges then throws out his jab (i think) while sliding backwards slightly. It didn't seem intentional but if there's a way to actually do that.... :D!!!

 

[Masonomace]

I have a question about something I saw in this video maybe someone can explain:
Start at 1:13 it happens in the few seconds after. Lucario does 2 consecutive ground dodges then throws out his jab (i think) while sliding backwards slightly. It didn't seem intentional but if there's a way to actually do that.... :D!!!

Unfortunately, that's due to Villager's DownB Timber. The activation of it pushes you back since the root starts coming out, quickly growing into a tree.

 

[HiFlo]

Unfortunately, that's due to Villager's DownB Timber. The activation of it pushes you back since the root starts coming out, quickly growing into a tree.

Thanks for the quick reply, makes sense now.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Anyone know if Luc can still Air Walk like in Brawl and if so can we rename the tech "Walk the Dog"? :B

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

nvm ignore me I found it.

 

[RT]

Should change the OP's info about dash attack, since dash attack is affected by Aura. All moves are apparently, but some are not as heavily influenced.

 

[hichez50]

Another question that needs to be answered is how aura works in this game? Are there Aura burst/level or does it actually scale on a smooth gradient?

 

[Zoa]

So with fair set ups now nerfed, and the new addition of VI according to Strong Bad's research, it looks like Lucario is going to play much more differently now than compared to Brawl. Especially since all of Lucario's moves are affected by aura now, his combo game may have been heavily nerfed or buffed.

 

[Masonomace]

Anyone remember Brawl Lucario's FP landing without a Flame coming out from a delayed timing airborne? It was useless no questions asked, but if it didn't return, then that helps the convenience of not losing your FP Flame inputting it mid-air for a walling move.

I also wanted to ask if the size of FP's flame is large enough to be poking characters ledge-hanging, while we're at a fair distance spacing ofc.
And implying for a second that custom specials just in-case are tournament viable, could Lucario's shot-gun FP Flame reach a ledge-hanger?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Will do on the info posted.

If you got pictures of .gifs of the moves feel free to post them.

 

[warionumbah2]

According Zero or some other stream, his max level aura boost he gains is at 120% instead of 180%.

His Extreme speed also gains distance so when you reach the 2nd to last boost or the final one you'll always make it back.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

If anyone wants to do an Aura damage chart like the one I made for Brawl I think that would be nifty to have now instead of well after Brawl's release. (Especially when we figure out priority in this game.)

For reference https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15218313/auramythtrainerinfinity.png
Same stock Lucario Aura Brawl chart for reference...

 

[RT]

According Zero or some other stream, his max level aura boost he gains is at 120% instead of 180%.

This is 100% wrong guaranteed, Aurasphere was still gaining damage up until at least 187%. Meanwhile, backthrow was gaining damage but not nearly as dramatic.

It seems like moves are scaled to gain Aura differently.

 

[hichez50]

This is 100% wrong guaranteed, Aurasphere was still gaining damage up until at least 187%. Meanwhile, backthrow was gaining damage but not nearly as dramatic.

It seems like moves are scaled to gain Aura differently.

Ugh.. Lucario is going to be a monster of a Character to learn.

 

[sparkaura]

So, we'd have to test Aura %'s for all his moves then. At around 80- 90% from vids/streams I've seen, it seems this is the % range where he starts to kill.

 

[Zoa]

That chart reminds me of the aura mimimum and maximums I tested back in high school four or five years ago. I put my results up on Smashwiki only for it to get taken down.

 

[warionumbah2]

This is 100% wrong guaranteed, Aurasphere was still gaining damage up until at least 187%. Meanwhile, backthrow was gaining damage but not nearly as dramatic.

It seems like moves are scaled to gain Aura differently.

That could possibly be the 'Rage Mode' taking effect, lucario's aura boosts the damage more than the knockback while the Rage mode boost the knockback every 20% or so.

Its max aura is 120% the knockback was simply buffed due to the rage mode adding ontop of the aura boost and the max rage mode can boost is 200%. So no i'm not wrong.

 

[Masonomace]

That could possibly be the 'Rage Mode' taking effect, lucario's aura boosts the damage more than the knockback while the Rage mode boost the knockback every 20% or so.

Its max aura is 120% the knockback was simply buffed due to the rage mode adding ontop of the aura boost and the max rage mode can boost is 200%. So no i'm not wrong.

Holy hotness, wait up. You're telling me Lucario's AuraBoost% on top of this 'rage mode' are stacking with each other, thus a new breed of Boost is formed?

This makes sense. I mean, Mega Lucario from the anime makes this relevant. But seriously, I can believe why Lucario FSmash is a threat, especially with AuRageBoost%.

And yes, AuRageBoost% is what I'm sticking with.

 

[RT]

Well....****. I get the dumb award for all eternity.

That would explain a few things...

*Edit* Wait, I am talking about damage boost from Aura, not knockback. Aurasphere still gained a small damage boost up to 187%. Aura improves damage and knockback. This is what happened in Brawl, and it still happens in Smash 4. So I think Zero is still wrong regarding increased damage output at max Aura. Knockback would require more testing...

 

[AuraStorm13]

Huh. I first heard that the Rage Mechanic was essentially Aura Boost Jr. for all characters, which I didn't know how to feel about, seeing as it takes away a bit of what makes Lucario unique. Granted, Aura does affect a bit more things such a damage and other things like his recovery now, but I digress. However, if Aura Boost can stack with the Rage Mechanic (Which it should) then I'm fine with it, it still keeps Lucario's big risk vs reward playstyle intact, so its good that Lucario wont be having part of his gimmick stolen from him. So in short, provided Lucario can utilize this mechanic like everyone else, which is very likely, it makes me want to play Lucario even more now.

 

[CrowGoesCaw]

Also Rage doesn't increase damage, only knockback, while Aura does both. Plus Aura also increases the size of Lucario's Neutral B, Side B and length of his Up B. So it's doing a lot more than Rage, while he still gets both.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

So, we'd have to test Aura %'s for all his moves then. At around 80- 90% from vids/streams I've seen, it seems this is the % range where he starts to kill.

I would recommend doing it by damage incriment (when something increases by 1%) that way we can figure out when a move outpriorities another move.

Peach mains tend to stale their FAir in Brawl, so our Aura Sphere would outprioritize that at around 100%ish instead of 130%ish when our Aura Sphere was fresh. So... Anyone mind taking this project on? Or I'll do it when I get the game in October.

 

[RT]

Important to note that Aurasphere no longer has amazing priority and can be easily canceled by projectiles, even at full charge. Small things like arrows and bananas can stop it now. Will need testing

 

[SimonBarSinister]

Important to note that Aurasphere no longer has amazing priority and can be easily canceled by projectiles, even at full charge. Small things like arrows and bananas can stop it now. Will need testing

By full charge, do you mean an Aura Sphere that's maxed out on aura?

 

[CrowGoesCaw]

Does amount of Aura affect priority? I'm guessing no, but if it does that could be good provided he doesn't start too low at low percents.

 

[Masonomace]

Important to note that Aurasphere no longer has amazing priority and can be easily canceled by projectiles, even at full charge. Small things like arrows and bananas can stop it now. Will need testing

. . .
Man. At least bananas can be destroyed with a move like jab tilt aerial or smash attack. Though. . .when you say full charge, you mean a default FCAS at low % right? Not a high % FCAS?

 

[warionumbah2]

That would be horrible if a max aura boosted aura sphere gets cancelled out by a much weaker projectile.