Not once they/you hit 30% or so, though. Then they can basically smack you out of your options and you should go with at least an assured 6% more.
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Lucario's abysmal grabrange
- Thread starter Timbers
- Start date
Tomkraven
Smash Journeyman
actually upthrow sets up almost all fastfalling characters into uptillt and maybe u can follow up with uair/nair if the uptilt sends them too high to do it again
dj_pwn1423
Smash Journeyman
You can still do a lot of things after 30%
You can use Uair against anyone who doesn't have great aerials. Bair I've found, works pretty well as long as you space yourself right. Fair good almost anytime, even if they air dodge you can wait for their invincibility frames to wear of and use Dair or Nair.
If they fast fall and/or air dodge you can just wait on the ground and punish with anything. Even at high percents Uthrow doesn't send them very far.
If they jump it doesn't really matter since they cant do much to punish you...
Dthrow is a guaranteed extra 6% and has just as many options. It also doesn't become less effective when your damage increases. Actually, testing has shown they pretty much have the exact same knockback, but Dthrow has a little less, which makes Dthrow more effective for combos.
Nurotasama
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 29, 2008
- Messages
- 465
Thanks for... ya know... quoting someone.
Dthrow is also more effective because the knockback does not increase from aura buff. I haven't checked the various DI potentials on the two when both players are at lower percents, though.
Uthrow to Uair also does not work at higher percents due to the distance of uthrow resulting in enough time for the oppoent to AD before uair connects.
You said you don't like revealing results from your tests yourself.Thanks for... ya know... quoting someone.
Dthrow is also more effective because the knockback does not increase from aura buff.
dj_pwn1423
Smash Journeyman
Thats the thing, if you use Dthrow they can AD out of pretty much anything and they also have a lot of time to move into a better position.
If you were fighting ROB for example, Dthrow would give him time to use a Fair and smack you. If you Upthrow he cant really hit you with anything other than Nair, since you are right below him.
Granted Uair is not really the best option you have after an Uthrow. But when it comes to floaties, it is easier to land it for the kill with Uthrow than it is with Dthrow.
Tomkraven
Smash Journeyman
actually ive seen a friend ADing my fairs and nairs over and over again after dthrow cause it gives almost every character time to do it. In the other hand, upthrow at least gives you time for an uptilt or Uair or even a shorthopped fastfalled nair. So basically you can either use the side throws to get people out of the stage or try the upthrow for a more effective result.
betterthanbonds9
Smash Ace
just started using uthrow....uthrow is amazing. People are over exagerating the power of uthrow after aura kicks in, point is, uthrow sets up at least one move against most everyone no matter how heavy or floaty and it tends to come down to the opponent's % more than lucario's.
dj_pwn1423
Smash Journeyman
I forgot about Nair.
Yeah its easy as hell to hit people with Nair while they are air dodging.
NESSBOUNDER
Smash Master
I don't know, I find Lucario's grab range to be suprisingly GOOD. I have NO problems grabbing my opponent when I Want to...
And I use grabs a lot.
And I use grabs a lot.
...They can only AD if they're either A) at a high enough % where neither Uthrow nor Dthrow will be able to do a combo effectively, or B) You screw up. The knockback is virtually the same. The only difference is that Uthrow does crap damage.
Dthrow does not give him time to use Fair if you're quick. It's like saying the FP Chain won't work on D3 because you're not fast enough to perform it. Dthrow is a much better throw than Uthrow, has less knockback, more damage, and is all around more effective.
NESSBOUNDER
Smash Master
The bad thing about Dthrow: if your opponent Di's away from you and up, there is literally no move that can reach them before they have a chance to jump.
...Go away. Stop constantly discovering things that disprove my points.
Tomkraven
Smash Journeyman
i think this discussion is getting nowhere. we should do some testings with diferent percentages and frame data to get a better solution
We have. Well, actually, Nuro has. I've just been reporting his findings, which is that Uthrow and Dthrow have basically the same knockback, and that Dthrow will do more damage under all conditions.
Alus
Smash Champion
i wonder why the developers decided to make lucarios grab range so short...
despite his grab range i find his grab combos to be too good in low ratio and normal ratio matches. and it works on almost anyone like wolf, bowser,ike,and snake,
(got 90% Grab combo in the stage metal moses dont plez discriminate my acheivement for i am quite proud of it.)
if only lucario could grab in mid air.
i am sad to say that i have a new main...Link sry lucario.... (T.T) *sigh*
anyway back to topic : something inside of me keeps telling me that lucarios short grab range is
a advantage i just dont know how in the world can you get a advantage over someone with
lucarios grab without having to think...
despite his grab range i find his grab combos to be too good in low ratio and normal ratio matches. and it works on almost anyone like wolf, bowser,ike,and snake,
(got 90% Grab combo in the stage metal moses dont plez discriminate my acheivement for i am quite proud of it.)
if only lucario could grab in mid air.
i am sad to say that i have a new main...Link sry lucario.... (T.T) *sigh*
anyway back to topic : something inside of me keeps telling me that lucarios short grab range is
a advantage i just dont know how in the world can you get a advantage over someone with
lucarios grab without having to think...
Timbers
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But couple it with his poor running speed and it makes him (me) sad. ICs and GaW may have shorter grab ranges, but one has a 0-to-death and the other has a tech chase/0-death bucket with their own grabs.
Zero_Gamer
Smash Master
I taught Azen to jab 3 times!
dguy6789
Smash Lord
I didn't know non fox players used the claw technique.
Timbers
check me out
flawless reasoning.
Except Ike's grab range is tremendous compared to Lucario, and Marth's is (a tad) better than Lucarios.
Nodrak
Smash Ace
Marth's grabrange is about equal to Lucario's since she leans forward. Pit's on the other hand...
P.S. .... Yes she
P.S. .... Yes she
Timbers
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Marth's exceeds Lucario's. Pit and Luc's grabranges are about the same.
Rapid_Assassin
Smash Master
That's because you played Ness, and Ness has one of the worst grab ranges.
Samuelson
Smash Lord
are there any characters with worse grab range then Lucario or does he have the worst in the game
Timbers
check me out
Ness, GaW, and ICs all have inferior grab ranges. Pit is about even with Luc. Everyone else has a greater reach.
Samuelson
Smash Lord
alright thanks for info Timbers
Your avatar always brings me to the verge of tears but your signature makes me want to get up and kick some bootay with Lucario which makes me happy
Your avatar always brings me to the verge of tears but your signature makes me want to get up and kick some bootay with Lucario which makes me happy
Timbers
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Well, not THAT far, but his dash grab is pretty amazing given the contrast of his standing grab.
dj_pwn1423
Smash Journeyman
Pikachu's grab range in melee was the saddest thing ever...
Samuelson
Smash Lord
Pikachu in melee was the saddest thing ever
I might just be used to his range, by now, but I connect with every one of my grabs, save maybe two, minus spot dodges. I'm just upset that I have to be so close for it. Down throw is definitely my favorite and also my most used. Back throw is second and fthrow is for when i'm higher in percentage. I actually NEVER use upthrow... it's too weak and gives no frame advantage. =\
Timbers
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I think you said you play GaW as well, right Milln? That might be why you're use to it =P
I play ROB (and DDD) and their grab ranges are phenomenal. I have to like, grind some Lucario play in the upcoming weeks and not be so spoiled. It seems like everyone doesn't mind the grab range that much.
Or maybe I should put jabs OoS a higher priority than grab. O_o
I play ROB (and DDD) and their grab ranges are phenomenal. I have to like, grind some Lucario play in the upcoming weeks and not be so spoiled. It seems like everyone doesn't mind the grab range that much.
Or maybe I should put jabs OoS a higher priority than grab. O_o
I can't figure out a secondary, but it'll probably be SheikZelda. I do grab a lot with Sheik but even hers is better, it seems.
Timbers
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Her running grab is pretty bad xD I don't know if it's worse than Lucario's though, but she does have the running speed to make up for it.
dj_pwn1423
Smash Journeyman
I tried using Dthrow again and I cant combo at all. I don't know how you can combo with that thing >.>
dj_pwn1423
Smash Journeyman
I tested this with a friend and told him to DI back first. No problems there. Then I told him to DI away, and he was way to far to hit with any aerial. I even tried it with Snake and he was still able to DI across half the stage :/
Jeepy Sol
Smash Ace
*looks at post count* Kitamerby is Satan!
And yeah, I hate Lucario's grab. My main problem with Lucario is I try to grab, miss, and then try to grab again.
And yeah, I hate Lucario's grab. My main problem with Lucario is I try to grab, miss, and then try to grab again.