Lucario+ (Aura Extraordinaire)

[Zero_Gamer]

I think Lucario beats Ganon big time.

One mistake and it's Upthrow --> stock.

Ganon is strong and may not let Lucario abuse Aura (only if the Lucario isn't good), but he'll still fall victim to the gimps.

 

[cobaltblue]

^True enough, but Ganon also can stone wall recoveries with his fair and stomp combos can cut a stock short quickly. I have to go with GoodOld that Ganon doesn't get waffle stomped but it isn't in his favor.

 

[iLink]

Ask Ally for the Snake v Lucario.

I think you guys are selling Ganon short. Literally one mistake and it can easily be a stock. You come down at KO percentage and Ganon will never let you build a decent aura. Any non flat stage and I think it might be close to even or slightly in Lucario's favor. It's not a landslide though by any margin.

Literally ALL of Ganon's matchups are like that though. The thing is how well a character can stop him from doing that. Lucario can wall Ganon pretty well with fair and aurasphere. Ganon is pretty much a rag doll if Lucario can get him into the air.


I don't know about that Ally vs Lee matches, it seemed like they were both just playing it way too much like vbrawl.

 

[JCaesar]

I don't know about that Ally vs Lee matches, it seemed like they were both just playing it way too much like vbrawl.

So?

Ally and Lee made it to grand finals by each beating a mountain of good Brawl+ players. If playing campy and vBrawlish with those 3 particular characters (Snake/Wario/Lucario) is the best strategy in Brawl+, then it is what it is.

Feel free to try to prove them wrong though.

 

[iLink]

The thing is, I don't feel like people have really dug into what really is possible in brawl+

Them playing their respect mains from vbrawl would bring them to use habits that they are all to familiar to doing, especially considering the game looks the same.

The fact is that the game is drastically different, but they were still playing it as it wasn't. There are a ton of different viable options and advantage of them.

The fact that they beat other other Brawl+ players could be that they are both just generally good minded players, I mean they are both high placing players after all.

Both Lucario and Snake have new tools that they could have both taken advantage of but didn't. I really think a big problem is people are still playing too similarly to vbrawl. We are just scratching the surface really but once people get out of that vbrawl mentality, then I think you will notice a drastic difference.




Of course this is just a big IMO statement.

 

[eisley]

I agree with the above post; the fact that brawl+ is similar enough to the regular one (specially in regards to the playstyle of characters such as the ones mentioned in the post above) lends to people sticking to what they know, which works, but limits them from expanding on the character. Sure, the fact that they are great players and the best at playing with those characters playstyle would lead to them winning brawl+ tournament after minor game readjusting. I do correlate their winning to the fact that they are amazing players with their respective character but not because that's the play style that suits the character the best as stated by Jcaesar. Brawl+ characters' potential still has ways to go in evolution.

 

[JCaesar]

Like I said, prove them wrong

Brawl+ has been out for a while now and has a nice following of dedicated players, but vBrawl strats still tend to dominate the larger tournaments. I'd love to see this change.

 

[bleyva]

Like I said, prove them wrong

i agree with this sentiment. until this "untapped potential" of brawl+ is actually discovered and put to good use, Ally > aggressive play.

Brawl+ has been out for a while now and has a nice following of dedicated players, but vBrawl strats still tend to dominate the larger tournaments.

if moneys on the line, why would you play any other way?

 

[cobaltblue]

if moneys on the line, why would you play any other way?

This. Its going to be a while for B+ to prove that camping is still not 100% viable.

 

[DotheDiddyMonkeyDance]

Hmmm Lucario is great and everything but I would say a Ganon could easily give him a run for his money. Primarly due to the fact that Lucarios Nerf is he cant ever grab the ledge using ^B unless hes falling from it. I looked at his .PAC data. His UPB can easily be punished not just for returning but by using moves also. If a Lucario messes up all it takes Ganon is 3-4 hits on hitstun to dominate him or any other character for that matter.

I personally think Lucario should be able to grab the ledge but thats just me. I mean look at every other character that has a similar UPB to his they can still angle it to the side to grab the ledge by this I mean Zelda/Fox/Wolf. I know you shouldn't use those because theres better options but i'm just saying. This would be something I would like to see after the next 6 months of testing.

 

[iLink]

The thing about Ganon is that he has no safe approach at all against Lucario. It can get messy if Lucario slips up and is punished for it but in generally, Lucario just walls him.

He really doesn't need to snap to the ledge. He was really just too good when he was able to do that.

 

[cobaltblue]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't ganon's fair allow him approach when Lucario is at lower percents? Its not the best thing in the world but its a start.

 

[DotheDiddyMonkeyDance]

ya ganons foward air if it hits with the invisible( or rather unseen range) part it does quite a bit of shadow damage as well as knockback and also it has quite a bit of priority on it as well. then also not to mention he has >B which ignores sheilds and allows for an easy combo setup. Still though if a Lucario player is good enough he should be able to outspace ganon but then again that foward air of ganons is devestating if it hits with the shadow hit.

 

[Rayku]

Heh, apparently I'm over a month late for the Ganon/Lucario discussion

Lucario ***** Ganondorf. One small mistake and Ganondorf takes a boatload of damage, and might even end up dead in the end. With the boundaries being changed it's really not as bad as it used to be, but it's still pretty bad. Lucario can camp and force an approach, and Ganondorf has very limited zoning/spacing options against any character with a projectile. Jumping over Lucario and trying to do something either resets the game to neutral or gets him F-air'ed (Which usually leads into at least 60%)