Low Tier Secondaries: The Element of Surprise

[Sushi3]

Note: I'm still fairly new to the metagame, so correct me if I make any innacurate statements, and please don't flame me or write satirical/sarcastic comments.

What I've generally understood about low tiers, is that they have nightmarish matchups against most of the high tier characters (obviously) but can be a threat against any player with less matchup experience with low tiers. While most, if not all of these characters are unviable in consistently placing well at high levels of play, some are hindered by a few select horrible matchups or issues rather than several. They could actually have decent matchups against the other characters. It's these low tiers that I believe would have greater potential as secondaries, and these are the characters I'm going to focus on.

I'll start with an example. The ice climbers are infamously known for their cgs, but face snake as a nightmare matchup, and can still be overcome by opponents who can camp on platforms. You might already be thinking "ICs are not low tier lol" but I still think they are underused and underrated. Suppose you main MK, a character with a good air game, and your opponent decides to CP FD game 2. This would be a good time to whip out those ICs and render your opponent opponent unable to camp. Had you mained ICs, your opponent would have probably banned FD right away. (That doesn't mean you shouldn't main them though)

Personally, I've noticed that Luigi has some horrible matchups with the top tiers, mixed in with some decent ones. As a diddy main, I generally use Luigi as a secondary because he is middle/low tier and also because diddy does well against Luigi's nightmare matchups (D3, Gdubs, MK, Marth sorta). Oh, and also because I got him as 2nd from Ook's little quiz . I believe that Luigi is high tier material, but suffers from these select matchups that are mitigated by my main.

What are your views on using low tiers as secondaries? Do you have a low tier secondary that accompanies your main fairly well?



PS: On a side note, Ook, you should definitely modify that quiz. I know you intended it to be just for fun, but it's a great asset to anyone searching for a main, so the more accurate it is, the better. (How can snake have no mindgames? )

 

[SuSa]

With how you phrased the title, I thought this was going to be a bit longer of an OP.

The thing about that element of suprise, is it only works for a little while. Also low tiers generally have far fewer options at most given moments and it doesn't take to long for a good player to see and abuse that. It's why the argument that "MK doesn't even need to know the matchup to win" comes into play. However it's not really applied to only MK.

Many characters can just play how they normally do and shut down characters they've never played.

This cannot be said about all mid or lower tiers however.

EG: Ness


On a side note:
Snake does not have mindgames, we have minegames. Thank you very much.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

With how you phrased the title, I thought this was going to be a bit longer of an OP.

Me too, that's why I clicked on it.

I was disappointed. No offense OP =/

 

[Sushi3]

On a side note:
Snake does not have mindgames, we have minegames. Thank you very much.

What'd you think I meant?

 

[Noobicidal]

What are your views on using low tiers as secondaries? Do you have a low tier secondary that accompanies your main fairly well?

Jiggs covers some of Ganon's 0-death match ups such as IC's and Shiek, and Ganon helps cover Jiggs' spacing issues against some characters.

Funny how two garbage characters go hand in hand.

 

[Zankoku]

The more you play reliant on the opponent being unknowledgeable of the matchup the more you will suffer at higher levels of play. Dedicate to your character's actual options rather than his/her/its novelty effect or just pick someone you'll actually use to try to win with.

 

[Nitrix]

and also because diddy does well against Luigi's nightmare matchups (D3, Gdubs, MK, Marth sorta).

Diddy really doesn't do well against Marth at all. He only has Bananas, and nothing more in that matchup.

 

[uhmuzing]

Hmmm... Lately, I've been thinking about picking up Jiggs as my secondary. Haven't thought out why yet, though....

 

[sasook]

I main trash tier. People get surprised game 1. Then they stop being surprised game 2. lol

 

[Ochobobo]

I've only ever seen vice versa: people starting out with low tier and seconding high tier. Maybe when people try to second a low tier character they fall in love with them and main them instead, and that's why we rarely see low tier secondaries. lol

Also "ICs are not low tier lol" was word for word what I was thinking, "lol" included.

 

[Vecayse]

Honestly players with experience wouldn't be so suprised would they? I mean CPing a low tier character against your mains bad match ups does seem like a good idea but why does it have to be a low tier character? Why not just any other char that generally has more advantageous matchups against your mains bad match ups?

 

[SuSa]

Diddy really doesn't do well against Marth at all. He only has Bananas, and nothing more in that matchup.

"Does well" was meant to be taken as "doesn't go 30-70 or worse" meaning "goes even with".

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

My Link isn't going to surprise people when they learn most of his attacks aren't safe on block and how easy it can be to gimp him.

I'd say do what Ankoku said and try to dedicate to a character(s) you want to win with.

 

[Swordplay]

I main trash tier. People get surprised game 1. Then they stop being surprised game 2. lol

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!

Low tiers may win game out of 3, that game either being the 1st with some surprise game or your counterpick. They can't win over the long run in a best 2 out of 3.

 

[uhmuzing]

If said charcter performs well against your main's weaknesses, it makes sense to use him/her, does it not?

 

[Ochobobo]

If said charcter performs well against your main's weaknesses, it makes sense to use him/her, does it not?

I think the OP meant to use this in case the other player isn't familiar with your low tier character. I don't think it has anything to do with matchup advantage.

 

[Sushi3]

I think the OP meant to use this in case the other player isn't familiar with your low tier character. I don't think it has anything to do with matchup advantage.

You want your main to cover your low tier's worst matchups. Then if the rest of the matchups are at least decent, then you can exploit the element of surprise.

 

[SothE700k]

You want your main to cover your low tier's worst matchups. Then if the rest of the matchups are at least decent, then you can exploit the element of surprise.

Flip flop that: You want your secondary to cover your low tier main's worst matchups.

And to repeat what has been said on here (the best advice about low tiers), surprise only works for so long. Once the opponent has you figured out, you better have more tricks up your sleeve than just surprise or you will suffer complete destruction.

 

[LooftWaffles]

As someone relying mostly on Marth, having Lucas as a secondary is a godsend. Even matchups with Snake and DDD (who counter Marth) . Now I wouldnt use Lucas in every matchup, but he is an excellent pocket character.

 

[Uffe]

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!

Low tiers may win game out of 3, that game either being the 1st with some surprise game or your counterpick. They can't win over the long run in a best 2 out of 3.

Or it could be that the other player adapted to the low tiers play style. Try mixing it up and sure enough it won't be such a simple match.

 

[sasook]

Or it could be that the other player adapted to the low tiers play style. Try mixing it up and sure enough it won't be such a simple match.

Easier said than done, of course. Especially for low tiers, who generally have less options than the higher ones do.

 

[Kinzer]

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!

Low tiers may win game out of 3, that game either being the 1st with some surprise game or your counterpick. They can't win over the long run in a best 2 out of 3.

*Ahem*

I'm not going to blow my own horn here, but just because it isn't likely doesn't main it won't happen at all.

Not the point though, you should only be playing another character to cover your mains weaknesses, surprise factor shouldn't come into play because you will have nothing once you're figured out, especially with the lower half of the tier list where the characters are limited in some way.

A.K.A. you're silly if that's the only reason you secondary a low tier character, you either main a low tier or you don't play them at all with the exception of low-tier tourneys, because if you have a low tier to cover your mains shortcomings, there are usually much better choices on the upper half of the list.

 

[sasook]

^tooting your own horn? Lucario and Sonic are both mid tier, lol.



Only messin' with ya, I know you were talking about Sonic before his tier list jump (probably).

 

[Kinzer]

I don't even play Lucario, he's just in my sig because a fellow Vegassmasher/friend of mine plays him a majority of the time.

Though I've been questioning that as of recently, he's been messing with a lot of characters.... he still talks about and plays him, but at a glance you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

 

[Mota]

The element of surprise wears off pretty fast, if it has any effect at all.

 

[Jigglymaster]

*already secondaries one hell of a Jigglypuff*

 

[Evle]

Choose a low tier is a dangerous election.

You should be very sure about your hability with that char and you have to know if your rival have experience against your char. Thats why the first match can work, and maybe the second but no more. Isn't dificult read the metagame with a low tier, they have less options than others chars.

Basicly, lows could be a good choice one or two match, but no more. But you have to remenber that couldn't work like you want.

Like example... my pichu won some money matches but, people only see my pichu in that matches, no after, no before. And specialy against fox or cp. falcon.

 

[onionchowder]

I think the best example of this is Ness. Anyone who does not know the matchup will get the **** stomped out of them, with lots of low % KOs via Ness' Dair. Someone who doesn't know the matchup well won't know to avoid Bthrow after 120%, or to attack the PKT instead of air-dodging, etc. etc.

Case in point: Tyrant v. FOW