Lost Mafia - Who won? - The viewing audience of course

[#HBC | Gorf]

EE I don't know how to read your whining about the game.

 

[Evil Eye]

Read it as null and look at my interactions and proactive movements instead.

Where's your head at right now?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I let you push your guy for a while before calling on you for substantiation. You were offered the exact same courtesy as Kevmo. The difference is that your play is more liquid, and unlike Kevmo I don't need to play the long game to read you so long as I dog you to explain your actions.

what the **** is this **** seriously

Could that be a bigger or scummier misrepresentation of everything I have done.

It's neither particularly big, nor scummy - if you can call it a misinterpretation at all. You say you give me the same "courtesy" as Kevin but at the same time you also claim that you treat Kevin's play as null but mine as scummy. Is that what you call giving us the same treatment? Considering that you base the different approach towards us on what appears to be a meta-read [something that reliably fails when applied to me] you have rather little to be complaining about.

To make this clear: your explanation on why you treat Kevin and me differently is sound [even though I personally disagree with it] but it also confirms my initial claim that you're not giving us the same treatment.
Regarding your points on Acrostic I simply have no reason to trust you. Of course you can say that you just tried to figure him out but you also threw your vote on him. Don't tell me that you would've let it slide if I hopped off my Ryu suspicion and said I "just wanted to figure him out" because you obviously wouldn't have. And since when are you the kind of player to throw votes on people to figure them out?

And all this was a response to me asking for some substantiation.

**** this is grimy

But it was more than just you asking for substantiation because if it were only that you wouldn't have needed to insinuate that I'm choosing easy targets. Asking for substantiation is what Kataefi, Soup or mentos did. What you did was to immediately choose the scummiest interpretation possible for my behavior - and yeah, I have already backed up my case on Ryu now. However, the inconsistencies between what you've claimed [equal treatment] and what you've been doing [treating us differently] as well as the premature damning of my incomplete pushes remain.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Read the last page.

Like EE doing things, such a temper on him but it's cool, as long he is making his point.

Gheb, i'm going to have to disagree on your read on RR being scum, for now.

I didn't like his last paragraph in his #251, but i want to find it null unless he's going to end up doing something with what he says.

I'm willing to give Acrostic more time, i know how Acrostic plays and his play just seems incredibly analytical and a bit malice to say, i read all of that fluff in his sentences just that, fluff, nothing more that makes it scummy, just something with spice.

@Rajam talk to me about acrostic and explain how his wording is defining a scum read to you.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

and bog-standard RR-town, or at best RR-null. He always covers a lot of topics, he always tries to vaguely move things in the direction desires, and he's always not particularly helpful.

The ****?!? Only the last part is correct, everything else seems to be completely randomly claimed and not backed up at all. Ryu covering a lot of topics? Vaguely move things in direction?!? When has he moved anything? Are you sure you're not confusing him with somebody?

The strongest point you have here in terms of inherent scumminess is that he's trying to take an overly controlling position, which I feel is also the least substantiated point you've made.

No, it's actually the most substantiated point I've made. In the summary post of my points against him I spent an entire paragraph to show how he's doing it and how I draw my conclusions from it. In his 219 he actually confirms this overly controlling position by insisting on the "being rightl" aspects of his fluffposts, something I even pointed out he's likely to do as scum.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Also, Gheb, what is your read on mentos?

In terms of activity, input and scummy/townie ratio he's exactly in the middle. 100% neutral read any way I'm approaching an interpretation of his play.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Read it as null and look at my interactions and proactive movements instead.

K.

Where's your head at right now?

In the clouds.

Up your bum.

Read back at me talking to mentos to see my views on most people. That, plus Ausuphers play kinda rubbing off as noobscum are my opinions. If you want anything else just ask mang

 

[Dooms]

Nah, it was aimed at you.

I was talking about my statement. When I originally wrote it, it was talking about me. I changed it around some and I forgot to take that part out.

 

[Dooms]

This whole exchange with the grammar stuff just reeks.

I'm not taking you seriously for the rest of this game.

 

[Dooms]

I meant the statement that I typed.

Oh I already responded to what Chaco said. herpderp.

Hi Joey. Who's scum? Why are they scum?

Why are people asking me the same things?

I don't like Gheb or Acro. I wouldn't call them scum.

I don't like Gheb's call out on Soup or the response he gave to me. Instead of defending against the main point of it, he just defends against the second add-on part. He doesn't say why he didn't share his read instead of just pointing out that Soup should have asked for it. I don't like Gheb.

Acro just because of what you pointed out and his responses to Mentos.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Okay, caught up.

Vote Auspher

I'm ignoring anything that was requested of me. Re-ask if you need something.

 

[Evil Eye]

Gee gheb that's a nice job snipping like a good 75% of my post despite that all of it was a direct reply to you

You say you give me the same "courtesy" as Kevin but at the same time you also claim that you treat Kevin's play as null but mine as scummy. Considering that you base the different approach towards us on what appears to be a meta-read [something that reliably fails when applied to me] you have rather little to be complaining about.

@bold: No.

I said that Kevin's play is well-documented as 110% null in the like four years of DGames annals, whereas your playstyle is liquid (it differs from game to game), and therefore you not substantiating a scumpick is just that; you choosing to express suspicion and not back it up.

I also said you need to play the long game to read Kevmo correctly, whereas that's not the case with you, I just need to dog you. And dog you I did. I wasn't treating your push as anything but you pushing a bad player without backing it up and therefore something worth pressuring. Despite this desire to needle you, I let both of you follow through with your individual moves so that I wouldn't be interfering with scumhunting should either/both of you be town. That's the courtesy I'm referring to. Nothing more, and nothing less.

It's your behavior since that I [might] find scummy.

To make this clear: your explanation on why you treat Kevin and me differently is sound [even though I personally disagree with it] but it also confirms my initial claim that you're not giving us the same treatment.

I'll concede only that I elected to pressure you and was softer on Kevmo, for reasons that I've already stated. I still pushed him for substantiation, and in a pointed manner meant to nudge him out of his comfort zone. Your earlier post rather clearly tried to suggest I was ignoring it entirely and/or enabling it and hounding you for it, when in reality I was allowing both of you to make the moves you so chose, but when you continued to post with insistence about Ryu and wouldn't back it up, I pressured you.

The statement was loaded, yeah, but loaded with blanks. Your response has been unsatisfactory.

Furthermore, what of it? Why am I scummy for not liking the fact that you were pushing Ryu in numerous posts and not backing it up? "OH YEAH, WELL WHAT ABOT THIS GUY HUH!!!!!!!!!" tends to come from a particular side of a TvS argument, and it sure as hell isn't often the T half. What accusation were you even making? I'm differentially treating similar but different play by very different players, for one of whom it is a well-documented null-tell and for the other it simply is what it is?

In the hypothetical where this isn't stupid and well-debunked in my prior post and this one, why is this scummy? If it is scummy, why aren't you still pushing on it harder if my response has apparently only confirmed it to you? What has changed from you FoSing me to now other than the fact that I'm not simpering on my knees begging for forgiveness? Because your interplay with me now rather clearly implies that you're treating this like "ugh we're TvT" and yet the only stuff I've posted thus far apparently confirms your accusations.

Hell, you're even conceding (in as indirect and noncommittal a manner as possible) that you at least somewhat misrepresented my play.

Regarding your points on Acrostic I simply have no reason to trust you.

Likewise? And yet apparently any attempt to pressure or get a fix on you is scummy. Worry about the reason for that later mirite?

It's not like you were continuously pushing a weak player with zero substantiation across several pages, which you'd know damn well by now always draws my scrutiny.

oh wait

Of course you can say that you just tried to figure him out but you also threw your vote on him.

No, I ****ing didn't.

jesus christ

mugatu.jpg

Don't tell me that you would've let it slide if I hopped off my Ryu suspicion and said I "just wanted to figure him out" because you obviously wouldn't have.

When did I say that I have figured him out? I'm still doing it. Right now. Or I was until you apparently decided to start making snap judgments on a player of my caliber from an apparently haphazard read.

So, no, that's not what I'm doing. I said that I was, and am trying to figure him out. I didn't lay down my vote then because I didn't know what to think, Acro being how he is, and I haven't since for the same reason.

And since when are you the kind of player to throw votes on people to figure them out?

I use every tool available in a mafia game if it suits the situation. Some I prefer more than others, but I ain't a shy feller.

But it was more than just you asking for substantiation because if it were only that you wouldn't have needed to insinuate that I'm choosing easy targets. Asking for substantiation is what Kataefi, Soup or mentos did. What you did was to immediately choose the scummiest interpretation possible for my behavior

Because you are definitely immune to scrutiny, as is every course of action you plot.

Jesus Christ, Gheb. Look at the ****ing post in the first place. The first sentence was convince me. The emphasized point, the right answer, was right there. Convince me. Convince me of anything other than you attacking a weak player. Were you not attacking a weak player? Without substantiation? Did I say I felt you were trying to incept a mislynch by doing that?

No. I needled you for substantiation in a manner meant to pressure you, as sure as I did for Kevmo, and I used different methodology for both cases because people are people, not ****ing robots. I asked you to show me anything other than what was immediately visible, and you know it damn well that's all that was visible, and you replied by immediately backhanding me with defensiveness. The one thing I told myself in writing that post would look badly upon you.

and yeah, I have already backed up my case on Ryu now. However, the inconsistencies between what you've claimed [equal treatment] and what you've been doing [treating us differently] as well as the premature damning of my incomplete pushes remain.

Blow it out your ***. Or whomever's *** you pulled the asinine logic you're using for this exchange from.

Nowhere in this post do I say that I was pressuring you both in the same way. All I said was that I was pressing you both to answer to your unsubstantiated cases, and that you both got the same courtesy (getting ample opportunity to push your lead). I also mentioned in that post that I feel a need to dog you for substantiation and to read you, whereas doing so with KevinM is a waste of time as everyone knows. Conveniently, literally everything I've just said was snipped out of your replies.

And the loaded comment I used to reply to yours, anyway, was anything but "damning". The first sentence of that allegedly "damning" post was, need I reiterate CONVINCE ME.


I want to let this go right now because I sense that this could get out of hand/unhelpful, and it's obvious you've skimmed/made assumptions at least once and therefore presumably more times than that. But I can't help but take away from this the fact that you:

1) FoS'd me for the classic "I'm doing X!?!??! What about THIS GUY!!?!?!" despite that I had addressed the behavior by both parties

2) Might be doing so to find a weasely excuse to stand in opposition to protown things I do as scum, an underhanded tactic you attempted several times in Bioware. I'm aware of the meta that supplements this point, and that's why I'm not going to press this and want to stop this argument soon.

 

[Evil Eye]

Let's hope that's the only big post I make toDay. Antagonistic to Gheb mode is deactivated as of this sentence.

The ****?!? Only the last part is correct, everything else seems to be completely randomly claimed and not backed up at all. Ryu covering a lot of topics? Vaguely move things in direction?!? When has he moved anything? Are you sure you're not confusing him with somebody?

Read D1 posts in Pulp Fiction if you want substantiation. Ryu made a bunch of airheaded posts that tried to touch on pretty much everything at once and drove forward nothing much in particular. He's also the type to come up with a theory and cling to it, but when he has a lack of those things all sense of direction is lost. Which leads you to, well, see my first point.

No, it's actually the most substantiated point I've made. In the summary post of my points against him I spent an entire paragraph to show how he's doing it and how I draw my conclusions from it. In his 219 he actually confirms this overly controlling position by insisting on the "being rightl" aspects of his fluffposts, something I even pointed out he's likely to do as scum.

And I disagree. That's pretty much all there is to it. I'm seeing the same old airheaded RR that constantly forgets he's even in the game and shows a minute commitment on D1 I always see.

But I'll give it another look. When I finish studying tonight I want to get a reread in. Fair?

In terms of activity, input and scummy/townie ratio he's exactly in the middle. 100% neutral read any way I'm approaching an interpretation of his play.

Accepted. Try to get an actual read on him before the end of the Day. He is a slippery knee-grow.

 

[Evil Eye]

Hey Ryker hey. Hey Ryker.

Why Auspher.

 

[Rajam]

Soup's still probably scum though. We should make him dead.

When you did this post there was enough issues on the table for you to ignore them, and make an accusation without explaining

Ryker, your read on Glyph?

Missed this before. I think it simply looks a bit scummy on himself, either because a scumbuddy is involved in the interaction (hence no stance taken despite his marvelous attempt to look like he has something to say about it), or because he simply is scum trying to point out a weird TvT interaction and let someone else take the reigns of what we're supposed to think about it.

However, it's very early in the game yet, and Ryker and frozenflame and Jerkus aren't posting yet. And probably others. Add that to the fact that Acrostic always does the Legalspeak thing where he attempts to Debate Hall everyone down to the subordinate position with his vocabulary and argumentative skills (which smooth over patchy grasp of mafia intricacy and theory imo) and I don't know what to make of it yet.

Yes, wishywashy stance. Deal with it. I've never read a game with Acrotown in it after his first and disastrous Newbie game, meaning I have no idea whether his ensuing excessive defensiveness is just a reaction to being put in the spotlight for a mediocre post and a personal need to feel "right" at every point of divergence, or Acroscum's natural and well-established reaction to thecallout.jpg. I hate relying on meta, naturally, but this early in the game it informs a great deal of what I know, until we get some concrete stuff on the board.

Unvote

Not dealing with your wishy-washy. If you were not sure about Acrostic's meta, what's the purpose of the coloured part then? It only serves as an excuse for Acrostic later...

Posts like these, which is one amongst many others, kinda come off as wanting people to know he's here... And that's about it. He said mentos was like an advice guru or something but that had no backup. And plus if you pull up the postcount he's probz amongst one of the highest. It's a feel that he's not even trying more than anything imo.

Well, out of the three main people thought to be scummy, im only seeing soup. I was thinking about it, and i straight up dont get the ruy or joey suspicion. The only thing i can get is, MAYBE, to benefit endgame, but id expect better than that so unless thats verbalized, i dont get it O.o

What do you think of the joey case?

Sorta the same of what I said to Glyph, but specifically, why did you ignore EE's case on Acrostic? Thoughts on it?

I think that pretty much covers it, but yeah, it was abnormal. The defensive response, the paragraph of all metaphors, then the omgus vote just seemed like way too much for me questioning a single post of his. As I mentioned I've never played a game with him so I can't tell if that's normal *for him* or not, but it's definitely an odd enough response to warrant my scrutiny going forward.



Hmmm, in terms of Joey I didn't like his defensiveness, and since then, he's been completely absent. However, while I can see why people are looking at him, I think there are people who have earned more attention at the moment.

Re: your response, what do you think of Auspher and Rajam's contributions to the game thus far?

You all are seriously going to point out how I've been defensive with KevinM.

The only notable things:

Evil Eye's information on Acrostic is very convincing. I don't like Acrostic.

Mentos and Kataefi are both people that I like.

That was just from quickly reading through the thread, though.

Ehh...

I don't like that after saying the second paragraph/sentence, he still didn't share his read about Red Ryu/Me, but just instead pointed an accusation towards Soup instead.

I'd say slight lean scum for this early in the game.

@whoever asked me about scum reads: Gheb for above, Acrostic for what EE had against him and his responses to Mentos looking like an over reaction, and that's it really.

Why aren't both of you putting your votes over the people you suspect

you didn't have a vote around by the time of these posts so no excuses

@Rajam: I already effectively answered this in reply to Kat. Skim less, post more. Preferably with something of your own on the table instead of just quoting and pilfering the words of others.

What, you dropping your case already, or can't I just agree with a good case? Where's the team work?

 

[Evil Eye]

Not dealing with your wishy-washy. If you were not sure about Acrostic's meta, what's the purpose of the coloured part then? It only serves as an excuse for Acrostic later...

Eh, if he started plagiarizing my explanation of my wishwashery it's not like it would be hard to notice. The purpose of the colored part was explaining my strife in seeing what I feel is scummy behavior for Acrostic but not having town games to inform this meta-based analysis. Plus it's not like someone I describe the way I described Acrostic is going to come into the thread and say "my bad guys, I feel a compulsion to try to argue people down under my heel and always win, even if I'm wrong, which I am". It don't jive, son.

To the second bit, I actually dig your reply. I phrased what I said the way I did because I thought you were asking me why I didn't vote for investigative reasons (which I'd already answered to) rather than because you wanted me to do so.

 

[Evil Eye]

I guess the : crossarms: should have been a tip-off though haha

 

[Evil Eye]

Read back at me talking to mentos to see my views on most people. That, plus Ausuphers play kinda rubbing off as noobscum are my opinions. If you want anything else just ask mang

That substantiation for Dooms suspicion wouldn't be bad, you were teasing that shortly after the start of the game but far enough afterward to have some meato n the bones.

Auspher noobscum is sexy. It's sexy because I don't agree with it, but I've been playing mafia so long that noobtells of all kinds have dissipated in my brain as a coagulated "dumb ****" pool of behavior. Back it up son. Gimme a "what's in the box"-level revelation

 

[Dooms]

Why aren't both of you putting your votes over the people you suspect

you didn't have a vote around by the time of these posts so no excuses

I'd like to wait until I'm way more confident in my read or until it's closer to deadline.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Hey Ryker hey. Hey Ryker.

Why Auspher.

Because he's scum. Obviously.

 

[Evil Eye]

Yeah I was trying to skip that step entirely and just get you to the next obvious question

Why?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

For reasons. Let him come in and answer to the allegations against him. Hurr.

 

[Evil Eye]

k

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Auspher noobscum is sexy. It's sexy because I don't agree with it, but I've been playing mafia so long that noobtells of all kinds have dissipated in my brain as a coagulated "dumb ****" pool of behavior. Back it up son. Gimme a "what's in the box"-level revelation

K.

Ausupher, as far as I'm concerned, has given us absolutely nothing. That in and of itself isn't quite incriminating, cuz I can see noobtown OR noobscum just waving their junk around until things get rolling, but I'd at least expect noobtown to try.

He goes on to state that his contribution was trying to get a wagon on Glyph, and when people told em that that part of the game, where you wagon somebody out of RVS is over, his justification was his being bad at the game.

Let's look at his justification for his initial playing around while things were going on. I can see a noob townie making that same justification, yea. But usually, you can see EFFORT in noob town, of some calibur. I looked back, and it didn't look like he was trying to get a Glyph wagon up to get the game rollin, it looked like... well... joking around. And his reason for doing THAT at that time? He's bad at the game. Nothing else, but being bad at the game. This isn't much more than a feel for me that I really wanna keep looking into, but his play just doesn't seem genuine with what a bad townie does... I mean, at least a bad townie SCUM HUNTS.

EE looks in the box and finds a piece of paper, with the word "Ausupher" on it, and under it...

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

That substantiation for Dooms suspicion wouldn't be bad, you were teasing that shortly after the start of the game but far enough afterward to have some meato n the bones.

Well, out of the three main people thought to be scummy, im only seeing soup. I was thinking about it, and i straight up dont get the ruy or joey suspicion. The only thing i can get is, MAYBE, to benefit endgame, but id expect better than that so unless thats verbalized, i dont get it O.o

Joey suspicion?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Sorta the same of what I said to Glyph, but specifically, why did you ignore EE's case on Acrostic? Thoughts on it?

Could come off as tunnelvision for Acro, but I'll bite. I don't really remember the Acro case by EE. But as far as Acro's play, I honestly can't decode Acrostic. His play seems so incredibly scummy in certain games I've read with em, and then he flips town in some so he's just become one of those players where I'll go for their if some of my smart town reads agree (same stance I have with Soup).

 

[KevinM]

I always hope EE is town because otherwise I might actually have to read one of his big posts one of these days.

Gheb is town imo..

Joey still a good lynch today..

Frozenflame you there yet? Help me

 

[Tandora]

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch!

Vote Count:
RR: (2) Chaco, Gheb_01
Soupamario: (2) Glyphy, Gorf
Chaco: (1) Red Ryu
Dooms: (2) KevinM, Soupamario
Rajam: (1) Kataefi
Mentosman: (1) Acrostic
DtJ Glyphmoney: (1) Auspher
Acrostic: (1) Rajam
Ryker: (1) Evil Eye
Auspher: (1) Ryker

Not voting: (4) frozenflame751, Circus, Mentosman8, Dooms

Prods for inactivity: None


Deadline December 23rd, 11:59 PM.

 

[KevinM]

Actually was reading Gorf's post thinking it was Gheb...

Gotta reread.. Gheb might be scummy.

Gorf seems townie

 

[mentosman8]

@Rajam: I don't tend to use my vote very often, especially in early game. Pressuring people with questions and such is, in my opinion, JUST as good as using a vote. I do not, and will not, place my vote simply for "pressure" 9 times out of 10. There have been games where multiple game days have gone by and I have yet to place a vote, so it's really just a matter of preference.

@Gorf: Decent post, and since I despise the "I'm just (a noob/bad) at the game" card, those are some things I've considered, pretty much the reason for putting him second on my "If I had to" lynch pool when EE asked for it. Will be continuing to keep an eye on him.

The Gheb/EE exchange was bleh. I've got to agree with EE that Gheb took things out of proportion. That's pretty much all I have to say on the matter at the moment.

@Gheb: your Red Ryu case strikes me as weaker than you're making it sound. Are you really dead-set on Ryu/a Joey+Ryu scumteam over what you've stated? Are you keeping your eyes open to the more noticeable behavior at hand and just ignoring it, or are you so caught up on this that you're just letting things slide that should be noticed by everyone?

@Ryker: While I don't disagree with you, at the same time I don't think "reasons" is enough of a reason to be given. Why not add the reasons for your allegations against him so that he can respond to those in line with the others and give us some more info?

Still waiting on a response from Acrostic whenever he gets the chance.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Mentos, what do you hope to gain by asking me that?

 

[mentosman8]

Preferably I hope to gain your reasonings for wanting to vote Auspher, so that not only can I see where your head at better, but so that when he eventually responds to comments against him he can respond to yours as well. Or is this not mafia we're playing and russian roulette instead?

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not understanding my failed attempts at a wagon as the only reasoning for me being scum. And scum hunting? Do you really think I was starting the wagon for the hell of it? It was to probe at Glyph to see if I could get something scum worthy out of him, which I don't have much to go off of as of yet from him.

I forget who asked me this because I'm still mobile(Internet at my house is out...hopefully will be fixed soon), but as for Joey being a "diva" poster, he's really kinda neutral for a while and plays nice right before he will lash out with a scum read on someone and stick with it for a good while.

Though that's just how I experienced it in Higurashi mafia.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Preferably I hope to gain your reasonings for wanting to vote Auspher, so that not only can I see where your head at better, but so that when he eventually responds to comments against him he can respond to yours as well. Or is this not mafia we're playing and russian roulette instead?

You lie. There are only two possible explanations for that question. I can deduce this easily due to the fact that you are not a moron. It is obvious from my interaction with EE that I was and still am not going to give you a straight answer. This brings me back to my original question: why ask that?

You could have asked as an easy way to add to your post in an attempt to gain town points without risking any real interaction. Or it could be something else I can envision.

Mentos, if you are town, be entirely truthful with your answer instead of giving me the mafia version of political correctness that was your last answer.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Dear Auspher,

Your scumminess is showing. Please refrain from posting backdoors to your stances while you are on my scum team.

Your's truly,

Me.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Dear Auspher,

Your scumminess is showing. Please refrain from posting backdoors to your stances while you are on my scum team.

Your's truly,

Me.

Goddamnit Ryker. Why.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Shiggles. You know how we do.

 

[Dooms]

Shiggles.

I don't like you.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

When did you ever like me in a mafia game?

 

[Deleted member]

^Story of Higurashi mafia right there.

Though back when you went by "the_Man", you were a pretty solid mafia player. :<