Looking for advice against fighting DK.

[Savon]

My friend plays a solid DK and I have been having some trouble with the MU. The main thing in the MU that is hurting me is DKs bair and his ability to NOT die. Whenever I try to go in for the kill with the utilt he super armors through with the Super Punch.

Any general advice for fighting DK?

 

[etecoon]

camp hard

don't fish for kills

take advantage of him trying to land

camp hard

all for now

 

[-Ran]

You should just ask me in person Savon, I've fought some of the best Dks in the nation. =P

 

[Toneh]

Whenever he grabs you and tries to stage spike, spam your shield button so you can tech.
If he jumps and throws you off stage be ready to jump as fast as possible.

Hes pretty big so go for as many c4 stickies as you can.

 

[etecoon]

OH, another thing with his forward throw is that holding up lets you break out of it faster than rotating the stick, combining that and good stage presence and it's a lot harder for him to stage spike throw you

yeah DK is fat, also makes your multihit aerials good, he has a horrible shield too : )

 

[Savon]

You should just ask me in person Savon, I've fought some of the best Dks in the nation. =P

True, but I only get to go to Dibbz for NOM.

 

[Bizkit047]

DK has an incredibly hard time getting around hard camping. What i mean by hard camping is not ever approaching, ever. Put down a dsmash in front of you (DK's Down B can get rid of it though) and just camp nades. If DK doesn't have a charged punch, his aerial approaches at you are a joke. Grounded approaches are nothing to worry about really either. Don't get grabbed near the edge or you may lose your stock, recover high and fast to avoid easy DK spikes. If DK has a charged punch and jumps at you, hold shield. If shield is low, back away. Donkey Punch kills so easily and will **** you if you try to ftilt. If you just shield it you're good. Watch out for DK Side B mix ups though, that can break shield.

 

[Attila_]

i really hate this matchup. i dont like it when we die earlier. its very unnerving.

but yeah, camp really hard and dk can't do much. play boring and safe and youll win.

 

[SuSa]

play boring and safe and youll win.

This... this matchups really easy, DK can't get past Snake's camping. It's funny.

:leek:

 

[Morningstar]

I 2nd DK, and this is my favorite match up for him. DK has the tools to wreck Snake hard.

Camp hard so DK can't cargo-dthrow offstage. That usually results in a wall of bair or a/some spike(s). If you get thrown offstage, recover high and FAST and be careful where and how you land because he'll try to charge a smash attack if you're in mid to high percent. Watch out for Dsmash when you're coming down, it has a hitbox above DK's head when he brings his hands down. He can ease his way through your camping with down-b because it has RIDICULOUS range, and a 9-wind Donkey Punch will **** your world up after 70 percent (I think that's right?), and a fully charged DP is a little weaker than a 9-wind, but it'll still mess you up after 80%. His ftilt has more range than ours, but it doesn't have our priority.

He can make us trip with dtilt, and then he will down b you when you fall. This is a true combo lol. When he approaches with bair, shield grab or duck under 'em. Just don't be predictable with the crouch. Jab -> grab works very well because he's huge. When he up-b brakes, edgehog or utilt. Ban Japes (if legal), or Yoshi's Island (invincible up-b), or Pictochat (same as YI, only it's a bigger stage). Brinstar is also good for DK. When they ban Halberd, I take them to BF, and vice versa. Also, DK's like to Donkey Punch on the way down to compensate for their bad landings (I know I do). Don't let it hit you, there's nothing more discouraging as DK than charging a punch and wasting it (besides getting CG'd). He's also pretty easy to tech chase. I wouldn't try edgeguarding DK because he has AMAZING recovery. If he's at a bad angle (good angle for you), you can utilt of course, and if he's recovering from FAR away, you can edgehog. Other than that, don't try it. Personally, I just try get more explosives on the stage when I'm able to because that really cripples his game by lowering his mobility.

tl;dr
DK will **** your **** up if you're not careful.

 

[SuSa]

DK shouldn't be able to cargo-**** Snake. Just hold Up, Cargo is practically obsolete.

Most DK's don't use the 9wind, because they like the SA of a fully charged. (9wind is underrated)

Jab-Grab doesn't work often, DK can bair you sometimes. (Especially if he SDI's up+towards you)

when he up-B breaks, keep explosives on stage and try to edgehog. keep DK's only two options open.

Japes is ****ing fun to face DK on, he cannot approach Snake at all. Not sure if M7H or Bigfoot still play, but go ahead and ask them. DK also mostly kills with dsmash, a move that primarily hits you UP if you DI properly. Snake has better tools to edgeguard DK to get a kill off the sides than DK has on Snake. (dthrow-->ftilt is also great)

Don't fall for B-reverse shenanigans on Dk's donkey punch and side-B. That's all there honestly is to this matchup, other than shielding bair and watching DK's spacing.

If a Snake knows this matchup, the DK is ****ed. He can't do ****.

:leek:

 

[phi1ny3]

if you ever see DK facing towards you in the air, get up and shieldgrab. Their only mixup is sideB, which although does some good shield damage, you can still get a grab most of the time.

camp hard, avoid going offstage v. DK.

cargo spike will work ONLY at really, really high percents, which you'll need to tech. Otherwise just hold up and you should be fine.

avoid upB gimmick maneuvers, if they come in low, they have almost no landing lag onstage, and if it's on YI, the entire animation is invincible with that glitch.

DK's fsmash is fairly punishable on whiff/shield

DK punch on the other hand, isn't so much, it also has a hitbox behind him (pretty strong too), so don't bet on a roll or landing behind him to save you all the time.

DK ground pound can be annoying, give him some space and continue camping, expect to almost always take damage landing near DK lol, he's very good at catching snake's landings (in general).

 

[Tech-Nelium the Shark]

9wind will kill you ACROSS final d at 70 and above. Don't ever approach. Supposedly his up air is a frame trap against snake if done right.

 

[luke_atyeo]

didnt really read so someone might have already said this, but if the dk likes to cargo throw you off stage and then try to fair spike you, fair spike him back, snakes comes out faster and will always hit first.

 

[napZzz]

dk is scary on the ground if you get cornered. Thats the part of this matchup that really frustrates me, also how he can kill snake so low, not to mention he's exceptional at keeping snake in the air

but DK is just.....bad and even snake can follow him and juggle him because dk's options when you're inf ront of them are like....lol. He can air dodge, get hit, or try to use his amazingly fast and broken nair/fair loool just dont get hit by aerial side b's as dumb as it sounds, it ***** the **** out of your shield and can leave you in bad situations

 

[Reyney]

just want to add:
side b is sometimes very nice to interrupt his recovery if he is offstage
+ easy techchase ( you can get grabs easyliy)

 

[False]

There aren't a lot of DKs around NJ.. Everyone here are Diddy mains. ):

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Fighting Ook was so much fun. This is one of my personal favorite MUs and I know it pretty well as Snake.

Key points that were probably mentioned anyway but am too lazy to check the last page:

- Pitch a tent and camp hard. He's a giant ape and has no projectiles. Just make sure you cook them...he has a **** Glide Toss that can easily close the gap if you screw up.

- Landmines are all but useless here.

- NEVER spotdodge or roll into DK. Don't even spot dodge period...it'll likely be punished with Down B.

- Don't fish for kills.

- Be wary of DK's range. F-Smash and Giant Punch especially have deceptive and devasting range and power.

- If you get cargo'ed...lol. Hold up on the Control Stick..It's the fastest way to break out.

- Staying above DK is BAD. We have NOTHING to beat him when he's below us. Avoid this scenario at all costs.

- Good DK's know how to abuse Super Armor Frames...be careful when going for the Tilts.

9 Wind Giant Punch > Full Version in terms of knockback. Also don't roll behind him when he Giant Punches..you still get hit. Full version is still better. Top level DKs abuse SAFs.

- DK gets ***** by tech chasing. Such a slow and mediocre tech roll..lol

- Spinning Kong makes a great GTFO move.

- His D-Tilt has a retardedly high trip rate. It guarantees a free Down-B if it trips you. Also his D-Throw guarantees a F-Tilt at low percentages.

Big open stages work best against DK.

 

[napZzz]

I lost to ook a few months ago and I got mad

down b ****ed me over way too many times lol I played ********

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

lol DK can get away with such BS sometimes. Just toss a Nade at him when he Down B Spams..they have to stop or they just blow it up. I always space like a mad man in this MU rofl.

 

[napZzz]

it was because I kept pulling nades when he was getting range of it so it was just blowing me and the nade up together. it was a problem I had for awhile, just pulling nades non stop, and I never realized how people can punish you for that if they just wait, idk why i didn't wait :l plus getting cornered by DK ****s you over too

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

That part I agree with. If you get cornered you are in a very bad situation. If that case I will gamble and Cypher away and try to reset the situation by landing. I was really good about reading Ook's B-Reversals so it wasn't an issue. In fact I didnt get killed by Giant Punch once when I played him..I lost the second game because I tripped into the F-Smash **** on the last stock..I was so close to landing that **** U-Tilt<_<

But its important in this MU to stop him from gaining control of the center of the stage because if he does he has now taken over half or more of the stage (depending on where you are) with his Down B(which will be used liberally!). Sometimes you just have to make big risks to get out of bad situations here. Both are punisher type characters so whoever makes the stronger reads...wins.

 

[Bizkit047]

Landmines aren't useless wtf. It works if the DK ever loses track of it, otherwise Down B can get rid of it. But put down a mine in front of you and camp DK. It's ****. What's DK gunna do? Down B to get rid of it? Punish the lag of Down B (in between the slams).

 

[napZzz]

snake behind a mine, dk in front of you blowing up the mine with down b

if you shield it, you cant come in to punish him because he can stop after the 1st slam and hell, still probably get a 2nd slam if you dont powershield the explosion and just push you back and put you in a bad situation

how is that gonna be good for you? down b isn't even that laggy

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Down B is not that laggy. We WILL be forced outside of DK's (********) range when he does it so how exactly do you expect to punish it....WITH a landmine already on the ground AND us behind it? You can't Mortarslide over it. They can get away from Nades before they ever connect...And like Nappy said all you do is put yourself in a bad situation and corner yourself...which is a huge no-no against a zoning beast like DK.

Landmines are practically useless vs DK. There are just so many better things I can do in my down time rather than just set up something that WILL get blown up without any benefit.

 

[napZzz]

considering how much shield stun it puts you in its really not as laggy as you might think. Its actually pretty difficult to punish without being right near him, (where I THINK you can spot dodge ftilt....i'm not sure) or powershielding

and dk isn't gonna down b when you're right there...he's gonna space it to **** with your ground game

it also pushes you back and ***** your shield....such a *****

 

[Bizkit047]

I have no problem dash attacking DK's Down B in between the slams. Just ask Will, I'm like 3-0 with him now.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

My issues with that is if the DK has spaced it the right way its very hard to do. And if you're close by him when he unleashes Down B that shield stun/atrophy makes it ungodly annoying to get in his range. It pushes us away also..such an anti Snake move. Maybe I'm just not doing it right.

Might have to hit up Mr. Broccoli Kong himself.

 

[SuSa]

I have no problem dash attacking DK's Down B in between the slams. Just ask Will, I'm like 3-0 with him now.

in between the slams

between the slams

the slams

slams

slams

slams

I see a problem already.

That should be singular, not plural.

:leek:

 

[Bizkit047]

My issues with that is if the DK has spaced it the right way its very hard to do. And if you're close by him when he unleashes Down B that shield stun/atrophy makes it ungodly annoying to get in his range. It pushes us away also..such an anti Snake move. Maybe I'm just not doing it right.

Might have to hit up Mr. Broccoli Kong himself.

I had to play him at VC8 Sat, and what I did was put down a mine in front of me. He only saw it like 50% of the time because I have a habit of putting down mines when the opponent is not paying attention to me (such as during their knockback), but when he did see me put it down, he'd come over and Down B the mine to get rid of it, but since I was standing behind it and thus far enough away for Down B not to shield poke me or hit me in any way, I just did a dash attack (not DACUS) in between the Down B hit boxes. You can probably even jump a Bair, though that probably doesn't work if the DK cancels the Down B really fast.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Time to go look at frame data crap. I hate doing it but it helps me discern solutions to little debates like this. I've only played Ook (and he spams that Hand Clap ****) so I dont really have a great deal of DK experience. It could be looking into. I just personally envision this.

 

[SuSa]

I've played M7H and Bigfoot. Both play differently, but both knew how to handle mines.

:leek:

 

[Savon]

DK players tend to use the hand slap to deal with mines, but I usually plant a c4 not far from the mine to keep them away from it. When they go for the hand slap they are either within range of the c4, or open to a grenade/tilt.

 

[Technodeath]

God **** I love seeing people do that SuSa. with the quotes and shortening the sentences and whatnot hoobitywop.

I've yet to play against the only DK in my state, so I'll see how it goes.

 

[SuSa]

DK players tend to use the hand slap to deal with mines, but I usually plant a c4 not far from the mine to keep them away from it. When they go for the hand slap they are either within range of the c4, or open to a grenade/tilt.

Now this is a good argument.

I can't really refute it, other than I'm not comfortable with having a C4 on stage against DK.

But that's not a matchup thing, that's a personal thing. You have a valid point.

How come I never thought of something so simple? No idea...I guess the most obvious things are the ones that sit before your eyes

:leek:

 

[Savon]

Why do you not like having a c4 on the stage against DK? The c4 has saved me on numerous occasions, and it makes for a good surprise kill move when I am afraid to go in close for the kill.

Even if they shield it I then get a chance to go in for a grab/tilts. C4 is my crutch in this MU.

 

[SuSa]

Having played the DK's I've played, I've found being able to C4 recover is far more beneficial to me. Grenades, ftilt, and (yes, you heard it here folks) dtilt can keep DK away. DK has no real viable options against a good grenade camp game, and when he finally manages to poke in it's nothing that ftilt/dtilt can't hit away.

Match may be even easier if I used mines/C4 more often, but I only used mines to help edgeguard.

But beyond gimmiks getting me for a while (b-reversed side-B and me trying to shield it, etc.) the matchup is really... really easy for Snake.

:leek:

 

[Savon]

I am still having trouble with Dk. I still not good at camping with Snakes grenades. Any advice to remedy that?

 

[SuSa]

Cook them. Short toss/medium toss most of the time. B-reverse and shield if you think the DK is going to approach with a bair. Bounce grenades off uneven levels of the floor. Jump before light tossing/normal lobbing the grenade sometimes.

Mix it up.

It's REALLY hard to put it into words...if Bigfoot were still out here I'd try to record us when we play to show you.

I counterpick DK's to Japes He can't approach at all, it's hilarious. I found this out when M7H took me there (I banned Yoshi's Island (brawl) in case anyone was wondering... DK's up-B is broken there)

:leek:

 

[napZzz]

spending time in practice mode trying to use anything with nades is a good way to figure things out, just try to imagine what the other character will do trying to approach/stay away from you and imagine how you can stop it with certain setups by using each nade differently and combining tricks to cover the stage/situations more efficiently

try to utilize anything you can, b reversals, wavebouncing, instant throwing, nade stripping, cooking, and each invididual type of throw. Whether its a shield dropped nades or a light/hard toss from the normal stance

Ya susa, I banned YI vs. ook and he took me to pictochat. Gay ****ing stage