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"Looking Cool, Joker!" - Joker Moveset Speculation

Hinata

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So, as we all know, we've been blessed with one of the single greatest announcements in Smash Bros. history today. But we didn't get any gameplay with it, which means it's time for some speculation! What do you think will be included in Joker's moveset? Do you think he'll make use of the Wild Card? Will he use his guns? Will his Final Smash be an All-Out Attack, or will it be Satanael?

Discuss!
 

Bravetriforcer

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Arsene will be part of his Special Moves and Kirby will summon a Persona.

I think he'll JUST use Arsene rather than his teammates' Personas or the Wild Card itself. Gotta keep the DLC development timeline reasonable after all, but they could just have Arsene do anything they come up with to represent his Wild Card powers. Instead of modeling and animating a Shadow for every idea they have.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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I know next to nothing about this character so I’m very interested to see what sort of playstyle he would have.
 

Robertman2

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he'd probably have his gun


****, if he does use his gun, that'd put a bullet (har har) in the whole no realistic guns thing.
 
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sunfallSeraph

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I'm really hoping that the shout-outs from the Phantom Thieves in the trailer means he'll reference them in -some- way... It'll feel like a wasted opportunity if he doesn't, I think. Although I expect some expert hijinks from Arsene.
 

Flynn.Scifo

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If he ever happens to use the wild card it probably will be just Arsen, Jack frost and Satanael. Nothing crazier than that and especially no Mara ...

What I'm most curious about is what will his recovery move be ? I guess Arsen can fly and carry him up back on stage but Idk.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Think of a cross between Marth, Sheik and Zelda who also has a gun. That's pretty much him.

In short, a stealthy, sword wielding magic user who also uses guns
Oh great not another stealthy, sword wielding magic user who also uses a gun anime character....


:p
 
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Sol0ke

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His final smash has to be the All Out Attack. It just has to be. I expect his playstyle to be a mix of his knife, maybe gun, and his Persona(s).
 

ParanoidDrone

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I think he'll use his knife for most attacks, reserving Arsene for smashes and specials. Even though he's a Wild Card, I don't think he'll leverage that particular ability in Smash. He might or might not use his gun because Nintendo. Final smash will either be Satanael or an All-Out Attack with the rest of the Thieves. (I'm hoping for Satanael, myself.)

A Persona fighting game spinoff already exists (P4A/Ultimax) so they might pull a lot of inspiration from that game's mechanics:

  • Personas are summoned at need for attacks and vanish shortly afterward.
  • Using Persona attacks in rapid succession lets it stick around and, depending on the attacks, move around while the character stays put. (Elizabeth and Yukiko in particular did this a lot.)
  • Hitting a Persona makes it vanish immediately. (Counterplay option.)
  • If your Persona is hit too much, it becomes unavailable for a while. (I doubt this will make the transition, but it's possible.)
 
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Rocketjay8

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I think he'll use his knife for most attacks, reserving Arsene for smashes and specials. Even though he's a Wild Card, I don't think he'll leverage that particular ability in Smash. He might or might not use his gun because Nintendo. Final smash will either be Satanael or an All-Out Attack with the rest of the Thieves. (I'm hoping for Satanael, myself.)

A Persona fighting game spinoff already exists (P4A/Ultimax) so they might pull a lot of inspiration from that game's mechanics:

  • Personas are summoned at need for attacks and vanish shortly afterward.
  • Using Persona attacks in rapid succession lets it stick around and, depending on the attacks, move around while the character stays put. (Elizabeth and Yukiko in particular did this a lot.)
  • Hitting a Persona makes it vanish immediately. (Counterplay option.)
  • If your Persona is hit too much, it becomes unavailable for a while. (I doubt this will make the transition, but it's possible.)
Bayonetta gets to use her guns. They can do the same for Joker.
 

MeatOfJustice

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Bayonetta gets to use her guns. They can do the same for Joker.
She does but they're not realistic guns, they look fancier and clearly use magic. In P5 the guns are replicas and the bullets are imaginary but a player who doesn't know that could think he's using a real gun and bullets in Smash.
If he ever happens to use the wild card it probably will be just Arsen, Jack frost and Satanael. Nothing crazier than that and especially no Mara ...

What I'm most curious about is what will his recovery move be ? I guess Arsen can fly and carry him up back on stage but Idk.
I was thinking of him using a Garu/Wind attack for his up special like Robin.
 

Luigifan18

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Does Joker do any showboating in his attack animations in Persona 5? It is a JRPG, after all. If so, the showboating could be incorporated into the charging animation of his smash attacks while the actual attacks just use the animations of the actual strikes from Persona 5.
 

Flyboy

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One thing I think we are sleeping on is the possibility of them incorporating 1 More into his moveset. Maybe a well-timed Smash attack could create a flashy opening for a second, more powerful strike?
 

MeatOfJustice

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If the battle menu isn't a taunt I'll be hugely disappointed, the buttons on it would definitely have to be changed for that though.

I think DTilt is either going to be a sliding kick (or that could be his dash attack) or an attack with a tripping effect. DAir being a dropkick makes sense as well.
 
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Princess Rescuer

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User was warned for this post; off-topic spam
I'm going to make some educated guesses on what the next four characters in the other DLC packs will be.

Asuka from the Senran Kagura series
Lightning from the Final Fantasy series
Adam Malkovich from the Metroid series
Nathan Drake from the Uncharted series

Remember, these are Nintendo's picks not mine. They are based around what their preferences seem to be.
 

Robertman2

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I'm going to make some educated guesses on what the next four characters in the other DLC packs will be.

Asuka from the Senran Kagura series
Lightning from the Final Fantasy series
Adam Malkovich from the Metroid series
Nathan Drake from the Uncharted series

Remember, these are Nintendo's picks not mine. They are based around what their preferences seem to be.
Is this supposed to be clever or something?
 

Hinata

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I'm going to make some educated guesses on what the next four characters in the other DLC packs will be.

Asuka from the Senran Kagura series
Lightning from the Final Fantasy series
Adam Malkovich from the Metroid series
Nathan Drake from the Uncharted series

Remember, these are Nintendo's picks not mine. They are based around what their preferences seem to be.
If you're gonna be edgy, at least be edgy in the right thread. This is for moveset speculation, not talk about Joker in general.
 

Princess Rescuer

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Yes, those were intended to be clever. I was going for the most ill-fitting choices possible for Smash. I actually did make a mistake though.

Lightning wouldn't be a bad choice by today's standards considering Cloud got in and Lightning is from a game that's also popular in Japan and is much more recent and better looking.

Asuka? Popular franchise in Japan based around combat and gets the waifu demographic. You know the thought has crossed their minds at least once.

Nathan Drake though? Doesn't seem too unlikely given the jealousy Nintendo developers have for much less successful games on Sony consoles.

And Malkovich? You may have thought Other M was terrible, but Nintendo thought it was brilliant. That's why a stage from Other M was in Smash 4 and why Samus was almost about to look like how she did in Other M in that game.

You jus KNOW Sakurai wants to put Goku and Kirito in. They've been in video games before right? That's all it takes these days.
 
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Flyboy

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Yes, those were intended to be clever. I was going for the most ill-fitting choices possible for Smash. I actually did make a mistake though.

Lightning wouldn't be a bad choice by today's standards considering Cloud got in and Lightning is from a game that's also popular in Japan and is much more recent and better looking.

Asuka? Popular franchise in Japan based around combat and gets the waifu demographic. You know the thought has crossed their minds at least once.

Nathan Drake though? Doesn't seem too unlikely given the jealousy Nintendo developers have for much less successful games on Sony consoles.

And Malkovich? You may have thought Other M was terrible, but Nintendo thought it was brilliant. That's why a stage from Other M was in Smash 4 and why Samus was almost about to look like how she did in Other M in that game.

You jus KNOW Sakurai wants to put Goku and Kirito in. They've been in video games before right? That's all it takes these days.
that's cool man anyway I think joker should have a move based on Hold Up where he points his gun at the opponent and can either stop them in their tracks or force them to run the other way
 

Hinata

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that's cool man anyway I think joker should have a move based on Hold Up where he points his gun at the opponent and can either stop them in their tracks or force them to run the other way
Oh, that sounds interesting. Imagine if they worked in the negotiation thing that happens in Hold Ups and made it so that move had a slight chance to spawn an item right in front of the opponent.
 

Jomosensual

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You jus KNOW Sakurai wants to put Goku and Kirito in. They've been in video games before right? That's all it takes these days.
Originate in a video game is the key phrase here. Goku is as close to being in smash as Negan from Walking Dead, Yoda, or Bugs Bunny is. If you're going to fall down this ridiculous rabbit hole you probably should at least use the guidelines Sakurai himself gave us.
 

Luigifan18

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oh god he's gonna get a counter down special and that's how they do Hold Up isn't it god damn it
That would make a lot of sense. I haven't played Persona 5, so how does Hold Up work again? From what I've heard, it's some sort of negotiation at gunpoint, and requires an ambush to intiate. How would that translate to Smash?
 
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Hinata

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That would make a lot of sense. I haven't played Persona 5, so how does Hold Up work again? From what I've heard, it's some sort of negotiation at gunpoint, and requires an ambush to intiate. How would that translate to Smash?
In Persona, when you use a move the enemy is weak to, they get knocked down, and you get another turn. In P5 specifically, if you knock down all the enemies, your entire team runs up and holds them at gunpoint, and then you can choose to either negotiate with them to get them to join your side as a Persona or give you an item, or you can use an All-Out Attack to deal massive damage.

I could see it as a move that works best if the opponent is on the floor, where Joker points his gun at them, they get stunned, and then he can either shoot them or just hit them with a smash attack. Or something like that.
 

Luigifan18

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In Persona, when you use a move the enemy is weak to, they get knocked down, and you get another turn. In P5 specifically, if you knock down all the enemies, your entire team runs up and holds them at gunpoint, and then you can choose to either negotiate with them to get them to join your side as a Persona or give you an item, or you can use an All-Out Attack to deal massive damage.

I could see it as a move that works best if the opponent is on the floor, where Joker points his gun at them, they get stunned, and then he can either shoot them or just hit them with a smash attack. Or something like that.
Oh, okay. Wait, that doesn't sound like a counterattack at all.
 

InjusticP5

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I made a full moveset for him. I don't thnk he'll use his Wild Card ability. I think he's specifically gonna use Arsene just to keep his moveset more focused.

Stage : Shujin Academy
I think the stage that Joker will come with is Shujin Academy, the high school he transfers to in P5. I couldn't tell you how they will make the actual stage layout, looking at past DLC character maps doesn't really help.
I think that the stage will have a day/night cycle. It will start during the day, and when the time of day goes to the Evening/After School time, the stage will transform into Kamoshida's Castle. There would be small details in this part of the stage, like pink splashes coming from the ground when characters move around. After a set period of time, the stage will go back to the Academy, only at Night, and then it cycles back around.

Joker Moveset
Joker will be a slightly more technical character than most other fighters. He will have the ability to unleash his Persona, Arsene, changing some of his Special moves. Along with this, when Arsene is out, he acts like a Luma or Nana, attacking when Joker attacks and increasing his overall damage output.The downside with Arsene being out is that Joker becomes much larger of a target as Arsene constantly hovers behind him, (Unlike with Luma and Nana who move with Rosalina and Popo, but can be seperated from them.)

Unique Mechanic(s)
SP: Just like Joker's gun runs on bullets, Arsene will run on SP, as visualized as a pink meter above Joker's percent. When Arsene uses a Skill (Skills are Arsene's special moves), like Dream Needle or Eiha, it uses up MP. If Joker takes damage while Arsene is out, SP will drain. If Joker runs out of SP, than he must wait for it to recharge fully before he can summon his Persona again.
Adverse Resolve: When Joker reaches above 120 percent or if he is in last place in 3+ player Smash, Arsene's attack power becomes increased and his SP charges more quickly.

Grab
- Joker grabs the opponent with one hand and knees them for the pummel. If Arsene is out when Joker grabs someone, instead he will kick them for extra pummel damage.
- All of the throws will be fairly standard, except for his Down Throw which could be a reference to the animation Joker has when he Ambushes a Shadow in P5. Joker jumps on top of his opponent's shoulders and tears away an invisible mask, leaving the opponent prone on the ground.

Normals
- Jab: A fast side kick into 2 slashes with his knife.
- Dash Attack: Slides along the ground with a kick. Easily low-profiles under a lot of attacks.
Tilts
- Side: Leans forward and swipes his knife quickly.
- Up: Simple stab with his knife, directly above his head.
- Down: Does a fairly quick leg-sweep attack that can trip opponents.
Smash Attacks
- Side: Performs a 3-hit slash combo reminiscent of his basic Attack from P5.
- Up: A standard backflip kick attack.
- Down: Sweeps his knife along the ground as he spins in a circle.

Specials
Joker Neutral - Model Gun: Joker pulls out his Model Gun and shoots a single bullet. You can press multiple times to shoot more in one sitting, up to 8 shots. Joker only has 16 shots and the ammo cannot be replenished normally. When Joker dies, the ammo is replenished. Deals high shield damage and if you hit an opponent with multiple shots in a row, they will go into an extended crumple state. (Similar to Ryu when he lands a fully charged Focus Attack.) This move has considerable endlag.
Arsene Neutral - Dream Needle: Arsene and Joker shoot a single large needle projectile. It will put people to sleep at high percents, but only deal minimal damage and no knockback at low percents.

Joker Side - Baton Pass: Joker calls out one of his partners to come in and assist him with a single attack. The partners come out in this order:
- Morgana will come out and shoot his slingshot three times.
- Ryuji will come out and slowly wind up a powerful swing with his lead pipe.
- Ann will flail her whip wildly and lockdown opponents who are caught.
- Yusuke will quickly slash with his katana.
Taunting with a partner out will have Joker and them do a unique taunt animation, such as Morgana giving Joker a high-five or Yusuke and Joker emulating Jesus as he was crucified. (This is more of a wish than something that I think would actually happen in Smash if this move turned out to be real.)
Arsene Side - Cleave: A powerful attack where Arsene whips a long chain ahead of Joker, caked in blue flames. Instead of spending SP, it instead gives Joker 10% when used.

Joker Up - Phantom Leap: Joker dives into the air and reaches for the nearest ledge very quickly as a black shadowy figure. If he grabs the edge while using this move, then the ledge-option to Jump up leaves him jumping up much higher then normal. If he uses this and he intercepts an enemy, it will force a than he will jump off of them and they will be knocked in the direction he was moving towards.
Arsene Up - Eiha: Joker is propelled by a pillar of dark energy. Deals alright damage, but mainly to be used to recover.

Down - Persona!: Joker calls out Arsene, releasing a wave of flames around him as Arsene opens his wings. You use this move to put him away as well, except there is no damaging hitbox when he disappears.

Final Smash - All-Out Attack: Joker and Arsene rush forward and slash the enemy to the ground. The background becomes bright red as Joker, Ryuji, Anne and Morgana (Maybe Yusuke as well because he was in Joker's reveal trailer) all jump up and quickly beat up the opponent. Joker and his team's faces flash on the screen before this takes place.
 
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Hinata

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I know it's very likely to happen, but there's still the faint possibility that it won't, so I wanna take this time to say that I hope if Joker's FS is All-Out Attack, they give him the finishing screen if you kill someone with it.
 

InjusticP5

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I know it's very likely to happen, but there's still the faint possibility that it won't, so I wanna take this time to say that I hope if Joker's FS is All-Out Attack, they give him the finishing screen if you kill someone with it.
I don't think it will be a thing, sadly. I do think that maybe the animation can be one of his Victory poses. seems very fitting.
 

Shin Chie

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I made a full moveset for him. I don't thnk he'll use his Wild Card ability. I think he's specifically gonna use Arsene just to keep his moveset more focused.

Stage : Shujin Academy
I think the stage that Joker will come with is Shujin Academy, the high school he transfers to in P5. I couldn't tell you how they will make the actual stage layout, looking at past DLC character maps doesn't really help.
I think that the stage will have a day/night cycle. It will start during the day, and when the time of day goes to the Evening/After School time, the stage will transform into Kamoshida's Castle. There would be small details in this part of the stage, like pink splashes coming from the ground when characters move around. After a set period of time, the stage will go back to the Academy, only at Night, and then it cycles back around.

Joker Moveset
Joker will be a slightly more technical character than most other fighters. He will have the ability to unleash his Persona, Arsene, changing some of his Special moves. Along with this, when Arsene is out, he acts like a Luma or Nana, attacking when Joker attacks and increasing his overall damage output.The downside with Arsene being out is that Joker becomes much larger of a target as Arsene constantly hovers behind him, (Unlike with Luma and Nana who move with Rosalina and Popo, but can be seperated from them.)

Unique Mechanic(s)
SP: Just like Joker's gun runs on bullets, Arsene will run on SP, as visualized as a pink meter above Joker's percent. When Arsene uses a Skill (Skills are Arsene's special moves), like Dream Needle or Eiha, it uses up MP. If Joker takes damage while Arsene is out, SP will drain. If Joker runs out of SP, than he must wait for it to recharge fully before he can summon his Persona again.
Adverse Resolve: When Joker reaches above 120 percent or if he is in last place in 3+ player Smash, Arsene's attack power becomes increased and his SP charges more quickly.

Grab
- Joker grabs the opponent with one hand and knees them for the pummel. If Arsene is out when Joker grabs someone, instead he will kick them for extra pummel damage.
- All of the throws will be fairly standard, except for his Down Throw which could be a reference to the animation Joker has when he Ambushes a Shadow in P5. Joker jumps on top of his opponent's shoulders and tears away an invisible mask, leaving the opponent prone on the ground.

Normals
- Jab: A fast side kick into 2 slashes with his knife.
- Dash Attack: Slides along the ground with a kick. Easily low-profiles under a lot of attacks.
Tilts
- Side: Leans forward and swipes his knife quickly.
- Up: Simple stab with his knife, directly above his head.
- Down: Does a fairly quick leg-sweep attack that can trip opponents.
Smash Attacks
- Side: Performs a 3-hit slash combo reminiscent of his basic Attack from P5.
- Up: A standard backflip kick attack.
- Down: Sweeps his knife along the ground as he spins in a circle.

Specials
Joker Neutral - Model Gun: Joker pulls out his Model Gun and shoots a single bullet. You can press multiple times to shoot more in one sitting, up to 8 shots. Joker only has 16 shots and the ammo cannot be replenished normally. When Joker dies, the ammo is replenished. Deals high shield damage and if you hit an opponent with multiple shots in a row, they will go into an extended crumple state. (Similar to Ryu when he lands a fully charged Focus Attack.) This move has considerable endlag.
Arsene Neutral - Dream Needle: Arsene and Joker shoot a single large needle projectile. It will put people to sleep at high percents, but only deal minimal damage and no knockback at low percents.

Joker Side - Baton Pass: Joker calls out one of his partners to come in and assist him with a single attack. The partners come out in this order:
- Morgana will come out and shoot his slingshot three times.
- Ryuji will come out and slowly wind up a powerful swing with his lead pipe.
- Ann will flail her whip wildly and lockdown opponents who are caught.
- Yusuke will quickly slash with his katana.
Taunting with a partner out will have Joker and them do a unique taunt animation, such as Morgana giving Joker a high-five or Yusuke and Joker emulating Jesus as he was crucified. (This is more of a wish than something that I think would actually happen in Smash if this move turned out to be real.)
Arsene Side - Cleave: A powerful attack where Arsene whips a long chain ahead of Joker, caked in blue flames. Instead of spending SP, it instead gives Joker 10% when used.

Joker Up - Phantom Leap: Joker dives into the air and reaches for the nearest ledge very quickly as a black shadowy figure. If he grabs the edge while using this move, then the ledge-option to Jump up leaves him jumping up much higher then normal. If he uses this and he intercepts an enemy, it will force a than he will jump off of them and they will be knocked in the direction he was moving towards.
Arsene Up - Eiha: Joker is propelled by a pillar of dark energy. Deals alright damage, but mainly to be used to recover.

Down - Persona!: Joker calls out Arsene, releasing a wave of flames around him as Arsene opens his wings. You use this move to put him away as well, except there is no damaging hitbox when he disappears.

Final Smash - All-Out Attack: Joker and Arsene rush forward and slash the enemy to the ground. The background becomes bright red as Joker, Ryuji, Anne and Morgana (Maybe Yusuke as well because he was in Joker's reveal trailer) all jump up and quickly beat up the opponent. Joker and his team's faces flash on the screen before this takes place.
I like your ideas, but I feel the Personas would be used more. Joker's whole thing is that he can use multiple personas so I think Sakurai would use those for his specials.
 

InjusticP5

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I like your ideas, but I feel the Personas would be used more. Joker's whole thing is that he can use multiple personas so I think Sakurai would use those for his specials.
Well, who would they use as those multiple Personas? As it stands I personally dont think that there is any Persona in P5 that fits with Joker as a character more than or as much as Arsene. Like I said, I think they'll go with simply keeping him with Arsene simply to keep his moveset more focused.
 
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