"Looking Cool, Joker!" - Joker Moveset Speculation

[Shin Chie]

Well, who would they use as those multiple Personas? As it stands I personally dont think that there is any Persona in P5 that fits with Joker as a character more than or as much as Arsene. Like I said, I think they'll go with simply keeping him with Arsene simply to keep his moveset more focused.

One of them would definitely have to be Jack Frost since he's a huge figure in the SMT/Persona series. I'm not sure about the two others for his specials.

 

[ramon_zer0]

Well, who would they use as those multiple Personas? As it stands I personally dont think that there is any Persona in P5 that fits with Joker as a character more than or as much as Arsene. Like I said, I think they'll go with simply keeping him with Arsene simply to keep his moveset more focused.

Jack Frost could be one of them. If anything, try watching the anime for possible clues as to anything close to being the "canon" Personas he uses.

Anyway, based on his normals alone, I could see him mixing things up with normals by having both normal knife strikes and drawing out Arsene to act as a pseudo puppet fighter. I guess the best way to put it in Smash terms would be to have Arsene be like another version of Luma - he only comes out to certain attacks and improves Joker's range, but taking too much damage could limit his options.

For specials, I'm thinking Eiha and Cleave should be his neutral and side B, but with a twist: maybe by holding down the button they could be buffed into Eigaon and Brave Blade to deal more damage and just have overall better properties at the cost of taking more damage. Dream Needle could be his down special and induce Sleep to create combo options. Recovery's tricky, but I think maybe either having Arsene fly (for crazy lol visuals) or the dashing and climbing stuff could work - I just don't know how'd they visually look like. The one thing I feel like they'd have to implement here is a more tactical fighting style that could play around with unique system mechanics more than usual, although I don't know what form they'll take, whether its an SP meter, Persona Breaks or maybe even allowing the Wild Card in so that Joker could change up his specials based on what Persona he has equipped - a cross between Pokemon Change and Monado Arts, in a way.

Final Smash is clearly All Out Attack; as much as some others think that Joker should get [-SPOILERS-], I doubt it for exactly that reason. I reckon that Sakurai/Atlus/Nintendo or whoever wouldn't wanna give away too many spoilers, especially given how relatively recent Persona 5 is in comparison to other games.

Stage could likely be the Casino, with the first two Palaces or Mementos being alternates. I could see other Shadows appear in the background and induce some chaos with a hazard here and there.

As for when I think he'll be out, here's my rough estimate:

• Latest would be 7 months from now - roughly the amount of time we waited between Mewtwo's announcement and his actual release. In Joker's case, this means somewhere around July. I'm using Mewtwo as a basis because like Joker now, we didn't see any gameplay of him. This is in the scenario wherein they've only just started work on Joker recently.
• It's also possible that they could do it in April or May - this would come after a likely Nintendo Direct that could not only show his trailer but possibly reveal who's to come after. This is also following the line of thought that assumes the characters will be released on a relatively consistent basis (around 70-90 days' wait each time); if Piranha Plant is coming around February, then this would put Joker around the late March mark onwards.

 

[AkkoBestuGrill]

I'm not gonna play Persona 5 until I get a ps4 (which I'm not planning to at the moment) but I'm curious to see what you fans have thought of

 

[LightningHelix]

I'm guessing alot of B-moves or smash attacks using personas. Most A moves will be punches and knife attacks. Probably a gun move somewhere in there. His default persona is Arsene, so I imagine that personas moveset (Eiha, Cleave, Sukunda and Dream Needle) would make an appearence. Or he could use 4 different personas like the popular Shin Megami stuff like Jack Frost, etc. I could also see him using callback to other persona games (Izanagi, Orpheus, Vulcanus and/or Seimen Kongou.)

In general I can see him be a disruptive type of character, debuffing opponents, making them fall asleep, etc. It calls to the importance of debuffs in the persona series, as well as a nod to the craftiness of Joker (he is a thief after all.) He would be relatively agile (maybe not Sonic or Fox level agile, but somewhat close.)

Final smash is obviously going to be an all-out attack. (as its named in the series.)

 

[Deleted member]

Just to add my thoughts, I think his basic jab combo (or whatever you wanna call just the basic multiple attack input) will be a 3 hit combo where he punches, slices with the dagger, then does a kick (or whatever he's doing with a basic 'Attack' in Persona 5 lol). His tilts and smashes would likely involve Arsene.

Specials is a bit harder to guess, but my theory would be:
Neutral B: Gun (Charge to get a 'Critical' hit that's slower, but Stuns opponent)
Side B: Jack Frost appears to use Bufu, Bufula, or Bufudyne at random (50%, 40%, 10% chances respectively)
Down B: Arsene: Dream Needle (Kneel Down and Arsene sends a Spike up at a slight angle away from you to hit opponent; sweet spot puts them to sleep)
Up B: Arsene appears encompassing Joker and zipping him up at an angle; damaging those around or in path (Fox/Falco/Wolf recovery)

Final Smash: Joker 'poofs' away and in his place, Morgana (in Bus form!) appears to dash forward. Anyone struck gets hit by 'All-out Attack'

-Alternatively-
I could also see Joker working similar to Shulk or Pokemon Trainer (depending on how you look at it) where his Neutral Special shifts through 3 or 4 Persona (Arsene, Jack Frost, and Jack O' Lantern) to alternate between Ice, Fire, and Dark damage/elemental moves. Not too sure; didn't really think this one through to the same extent as the possibility above.

In either case, I can see Joker's kit being extremely similar to either of those two options.

EDIT: Posted without reading the other ideas, but wow, Injusticp5, that is really in depth.

 

[InjusticP5]

Jack Frost could be one of them. If anything, try watching the anime for possible clues as to anything close to being the "canon" Personas he uses.

Anyway, based on his normals alone, I could see him mixing things up with normals by having both normal knife strikes and drawing out Arsene to act as a pseudo puppet fighter. I guess the best way to put it in Smash terms would be to have Arsene be like another version of Luma - he only comes out to certain attacks and improves Joker's range, but taking too much damage could limit his options.

For specials, I'm thinking Eiha and Cleave should be his neutral and side B, but with a twist: maybe by holding down the button they could be buffed into Eigaon and Brave Blade to deal more damage and just have overall better properties at the cost of taking more damage. Dream Needle could be his down special and induce Sleep to create combo options. Recovery's tricky, but I think maybe either having Arsene fly (for crazy lol visuals) or the dashing and climbing stuff could work - I just don't know how'd they visually look like. The one thing I feel like they'd have to implement here is a more tactical fighting style that could play around with unique system mechanics more than usual, although I don't know what form they'll take, whether its an SP meter, Persona Breaks or maybe even allowing the Wild Card in so that Joker could change up his specials based on what Persona he has equipped - a cross between Pokemon Change and Monado Arts, in a way.

Final Smash is clearly All Out Attack; as much as some others think that Joker should get [-SPOILERS-], I doubt it for exactly that reason. I reckon that Sakurai/Atlus/Nintendo or whoever wouldn't wanna give away too many spoilers, especially given how relatively recent Persona 5 is in comparison to other games.

Stage could likely be the Casino, with the first two Palaces or Mementos being alternates. I could see other Shadows appear in the background and induce some chaos with a hazard here and there.

As for when I think he'll be out, here's my rough estimate:

• Latest would be 7 months from now - roughly the amount of time we waited between Mewtwo's announcement and his actual release. In Joker's case, this means somewhere around July. I'm using Mewtwo as a basis because like Joker now, we didn't see any gameplay of him. This is in the scenario wherein they've only just started work on Joker recently.
• It's also possible that they could do it in April or May - this would come after a likely Nintendo Direct that could not only show his trailer but possibly reveal who's to come after. This is also following the line of thought that assumes the characters will be released on a relatively consistent basis (around 70-90 days' wait each time); if Piranha Plant is coming around February, then this would put Joker around the late March mark onwards.

I think I prefer the way I have him in my moveset. I like the idea of a Jojo: HftF character in Smash. I do think that he's more likely to simply have Arsene come out for certain attacks instead of Arsene showing up in the same vein as a Jojo stand. I feel like if they hadn't put so much emphasis on Arsene in the latter half of the trailer, than it would be more likely that he would have multiple Personas.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Regarding Joker not summoning you-know-who (not Voldemort lol) as a final smash due to spoilers, I want to remind people that Lucas's Brawl trophy spoiled half the major plot points of his game and there's a spirit of a Xenoblade party member in Ultimate whose mere existence is so spoileriffic that they were referred to simply as "Seven" on Gamefaqs and the like. There's definitely a point where spoilers just don't factor in to their decisions.

I also happen to believe that Joker summoning you-know-who, by itself, is not a spoiler so much as who he's fighting at the time, which I'm pretty sure won't be referenced regardless.

 

[InjusticP5]

Regarding Joker not summoning you-know-who (not Voldemort lol) as a final smash due to spoilers, I want to remind people that Lucas's Brawl trophy spoiled half the major plot points of his game and there's a spirit of a Xenoblade party member in Ultimate whose mere existence is so spoileriffic that they were referred to simply as "Seven" on Gamefaqs and the like. There's definitely a point where spoilers just don't factor in to their decisions.

I also happen to believe that Joker summoning you-know-who, by itself, is not a spoiler so much as who he's fighting at the time, which I'm pretty sure won't be referenced regardless.

Lucas' Brawl trophy leaked major story elements because Nintendo never actually intends to let us play the game legally. I guess Nintendo feels that its been a decent amount of time since Xenoblade 1 where if you really cared about the story of that game then you would have played it by now.

 

[Deleted member]

Originate in a video game is the key phrase here. Goku is as close to being in smash as Negan from Walking Dead, Yoda, or Bugs Bunny is. If you're going to fall down this ridiculous rabbit hole you probably should at least use the guidelines Sakurai himself gave us.

pretty sure the golden rule is/was(not sure) "A fighter must have appeared in a game"

please correct me if i'm mistaken.

 

[StormC]

pretty sure the golden rule is/was(not sure) "A fighter must have appeared in a game"

please correct me if i'm mistaken.

Sakurai: But, you know I get requests like, “Please put Goku in”
Sugita: GOKU!?
Sakurai: “Please put Spongebob”
Sugita: SPONGEBOB?!
Sakurai: That’s impossible.

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/03/22/mewtwo-dlc-takamaru-and-sakurais-nico-nico-appearance/

“Manga characters will not join the battle (obviously)."

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/10/05/sakuraithirdparty/

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai: But, you know I get requests like, “Please put Goku in”
Sugita: GOKU!?
Sakurai: “Please put Spongebob”
Sugita: SPONGEBOB?!
Sakurai: That’s impossible.

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/03/22/mewtwo-dlc-takamaru-and-sakurais-nico-nico-appearance/

“Manga characters will not join the battle (obviously)."

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/10/05/sakuraithirdparty/

ah thanks. although i'm pretty sure that's meant to be some kind of exemption. think like "this character can get in, but I don't feel it fits well, so I won't add it"

 

[ppxt]

I actually feel like itd make more sense for him to use multiple personas (even though I dont want him to) because sakurai always likes to make the character in smash play like in their respective game, so he'll probably use multiple personas that weaken over time or something

 

[Grie]

I think either would work. All out attack is probably what there gonna go for but I’m gonna go for sinfull shell on this one personally ( That pun came out of nowhere I’m sorry).

 

[Flyboy]

It's gotta be the AOA. It radiates style, it allows for party member cameos, it's iconic to the series and game, and also it's not a gigantic spoiler so that's cool too.

 

[lukinator1]

i would think the 2nd one but i could also see them possibly integrating it as a part of his baseline moveset

 

[Ultrashroomz]

EDIT: Wrong thread.

 

[JKrisom]

Ok, my speculation/wishes:

Gimmick: Persona change. Joker can use Shield+b (as inklings) to change Personas. He has 5 in total: Arsene, Jack Frost, Thor, Pixie and Jack o Lantern.

Jab: Small dagger swings directly in front of Joker.
Neutral Infinite: Lot of quick dagger swings in front of Joker, ends with a gun shot.

F-tilt: Wide dagger swing in front of Joker.
U-tilt: Upwards swing with Joker's gun, shoots small knockback bullets in a diagonal angle, only if you keep the button pressed.
D-tilt: Slide through the ground in style. Can do a full jump/short hop out of the animation whenever.

N-air: Two quick dagger swings in front of him, in a slight downwards diagonal angle.
F-air: Bullet shot in front of him, travels small distance.
B-air: Backwards kick, one hit.
U-air: Wide dagger swing over him.
D-air: Plunges to the ground looking cool (Joker), can be comboed into D-tilt.

F-Smash: Uses current persona to do a wide attack in front of him. Can have a darkness (Eiha), Ice (Bufu), Electric (Zio), Wind (Garu) or Fire (Agi) effect, depending on the Persona.
D-Smash: Slashes the floor with the dagger in front and behind him. If catches people at the ledge it can spike.
U-Smash: Fires gun directly above him.

Grab-jab: Opponent gets punched by the current persona while Joker holds the opponent with one hand and his gun pointing at him.
D-Throw: Slams opponent against the ground in front of him.
F-Throw: Jumps from opponents chest, moving backwards and throwing his opponent forwards. High knockback.
B-Throw: Jumps over opponent's shoulders, moving Joker forwards and throwing his opponent backwards. High knockback.
U-Throw: Throws opponent above him and fires his gun upwards.



Specials:
Neutral B:
Sends small projectile in front of him, with a different attribute depending on persona equipped.
- Arsene: Eiha. Sends shadows directly forwards, mid-range from where Joker is. Multi-hit and small knockback.
- Jack Frost: Bufu. Sends ice shards directly forwards, short-range from where Joker is. One hit and small knockback, with a chance of freezing at high %.
- Thor: Zio. Sends a lighting bolt directly forwards with a slight upwards angle. Quite quick travel speed and long-range from where Joker is. Small knockback.
- Pixie: Garu. Sends waves of air directly forwards that also cover the ground level. Long range and multi-hit when it connects.
- Jack o Lantern: Agi. Detonates a small explosion short-range in front of Joker. High knockback.


Down B:
Buffs Joker for a small amount of time. Needs to be charged similar to Wii Fit Trainer's Down B.
- Arsene / Jack Frost: Rakukaja. Increases defense, lowering knockback received for a while.
- Thor / Jack o Lantern: Tarukaja. Increases attack, increasing knockback dealt for a while.
- Pixie: Sukukaja. Increases movement speed and jump height very slightly for a while.


Up B:
Wings of Rebellion: Sends Joker flying upwards. Effect/distance varies depending on Persona equipped.
- Arsene: Arsene appears behind Joker and flies upwards with him. Regular distance with a wide hitbox above Joker (Think Mario's Up-B on distance/angle)
- Jack Frost: Jack frost appears below Joker and creates a "step" with both hands interlocked (don't know how to explain this in English...), having Joker jump from it and sending him directly upwards with small ice particle effects surrounding him. Small hitbox all around Joker, but can be broken with a strong attack. (Think Kirby's Up-B on upwards trajectory)
- Thor: Thor appears behind Joker and swings his hammer upwards, allowing Joker to raise with him. (Think Simon's Up-B on distance/angle/power, but with an electric effect)
- Pixie: Pixie appears behind Joker and creates gusts of wind that sends him flying upwards. No hitbox whatsoever, except for the landing and first frames of the gusts of wind. (Think Inkling's Up-B in terms of distance).
- Jack o Lantern: Jack o Lantern appears behind Joker and creates an explosion below him, sending Joker flying slightly upwards (Think Dr. Mario's Up-B on distance/angle). Has no hitbox above Joker, but the explosion can spike opponents on the first few frames.


Side B:
Ambush. Joker leaps forwards. If it catches people, he stands atop their shoulders and can do one of the following actions:
Attack - A button. Small jabs.
Throw - Forward or Backward stick movement: Similar to F-throw or D-throw, but with small knockback.
Disable - B button. Knocks on the head with the gun, trips opponent and makes Joker do a short hop upwards and backwards.
If nothing is pressed or the opponent mashes out of the movement, the "release grab" animation is played.

Final Smash: All Out Attack. All characters on the screen trip and Joker has a few seconds to hit as many as he can with attacks. After these few seconds, whomever he hit goes into the "All Out Attack" screen, where Joker and all his party members (except Futaba, ofc) raid on the opponents. Does around 40% damage, although small horizontal knockback. If the enemie/s are over 100% damage when the attack ends, they are insta-killed (Think Zelda's FS) and one of the "all out attack" screens form any of the party members appears.




Whoo! Sorry for the long post. If anyone can share with me the "Spoiler" code I'd be grateful, I'm still kinda new here :D

 

[Hinata]

Ok, my speculation/wishes:

Gimmick: Persona change. Joker can use Shield+b (as inklings) to change Personas. He has 5 in total: Arsene, Jack Frost, Thor, Pixie and Jack o Lantern.

Jab: Small dagger swings directly in front of Joker.
Neutral Infinite: Lot of quick dagger swings in front of Joker, ends with a gun shot.

F-tilt: Wide dagger swing in front of Joker.
U-tilt: Upwards swing with Joker's gun, shoots small knockback bullets in a diagonal angle, only if you keep the button pressed.
D-tilt: Slide through the ground in style. Can do a full jump/short hop out of the animation whenever.

N-air: Two quick dagger swings in front of him, in a slight downwards diagonal angle.
F-air: Bullet shot in front of him, travels small distance.
B-air: Backwards kick, one hit.
U-air: Wide dagger swing over him.
D-air: Plunges to the ground looking cool (Joker), can be comboed into D-tilt.

F-Smash: Uses current persona to do a wide attack in front of him. Can have a darkness (Eiha), Ice (Bufu), Electric (Zio), Wind (Garu) or Fire (Agi) effect, depending on the Persona.
D-Smash: Slashes the floor with the dagger in front and behind him. If catches people at the ledge it can spike.
U-Smash: Fires gun directly above him.

Grab-jab: Opponent gets punched by the current persona while Joker holds the opponent with one hand and his gun pointing at him.
D-Throw: Slams opponent against the ground in front of him.
F-Throw: Jumps from opponents chest, moving backwards and throwing his opponent forwards. High knockback.
B-Throw: Jumps over opponent's shoulders, moving Joker forwards and throwing his opponent backwards. High knockback.
U-Throw: Throws opponent above him and fires his gun upwards.



Specials:
Neutral B:
Sends small projectile in front of him, with a different attribute depending on persona equipped.
- Arsene: Eiha. Sends shadows directly forwards, mid-range from where Joker is. Multi-hit and small knockback.
- Jack Frost: Bufu. Sends ice shards directly forwards, short-range from where Joker is. One hit and small knockback, with a chance of freezing at high %.
- Thor: Zio. Sends a lighting bolt directly forwards with a slight upwards angle. Quite quick travel speed and long-range from where Joker is. Small knockback.
- Pixie: Garu. Sends waves of air directly forwards that also cover the ground level. Long range and multi-hit when it connects.
- Jack o Lantern: Agi. Detonates a small explosion short-range in front of Joker. High knockback.


Down B:
Buffs Joker for a small amount of time. Needs to be charged similar to Wii Fit Trainer's Down B.
- Arsene / Jack Frost: Rakukaja. Increases defense, lowering knockback received for a while.
- Thor / Jack o Lantern: Tarukaja. Increases attack, increasing knockback dealt for a while.
- Pixie: Sukukaja. Increases movement speed and jump height very slightly for a while.


Up B:
Wings of Rebellion: Sends Joker flying upwards. Effect/distance varies depending on Persona equipped.
- Arsene: Arsene appears behind Joker and flies upwards with him. Regular distance with a wide hitbox above Joker (Think Mario's Up-B on distance/angle)
- Jack Frost: Jack frost appears below Joker and creates a "step" with both hands interlocked (don't know how to explain this in English...), having Joker jump from it and sending him directly upwards with small ice particle effects surrounding him. Small hitbox all around Joker, but can be broken with a strong attack. (Think Kirby's Up-B on upwards trajectory)
- Thor: Thor appears behind Joker and swings his hammer upwards, allowing Joker to raise with him. (Think Simon's Up-B on distance/angle/power, but with an electric effect)
- Pixie: Pixie appears behind Joker and creates gusts of wind that sends him flying upwards. No hitbox whatsoever, except for the landing and first frames of the gusts of wind. (Think Inkling's Up-B in terms of distance).
- Jack o Lantern: Jack o Lantern appears behind Joker and creates an explosion below him, sending Joker flying slightly upwards (Think Dr. Mario's Up-B on distance/angle). Has no hitbox above Joker, but the explosion can spike opponents on the first few frames.


Side B:
Ambush. Joker leaps forwards. If it catches people, he stands atop their shoulders and can do one of the following actions:
Attack - A button. Small jabs.
Throw - Forward or Backward stick movement: Similar to F-throw or D-throw, but with small knockback.
Disable - B button. Knocks on the head with the gun, trips opponent and makes Joker do a short hop upwards and backwards.
If nothing is pressed or the opponent mashes out of the movement, the "release grab" animation is played.

Final Smash: All Out Attack. All characters on the screen trip and Joker has a few seconds to hit as many as he can with attacks. After these few seconds, whomever he hit goes into the "All Out Attack" screen, where Joker and all his party members (except Futaba, ofc) raid on the opponents. Does around 40% damage, although small horizontal knockback. If the enemie/s are over 100% damage when the attack ends, they are insta-killed (Think Zelda's FS) and one of the "all out attack" screens form any of the party members appears.




Whoo! Sorry for the long post. If anyone can share with me the "Spoiler" code I'd be grateful, I'm still kinda new here :D

First off, welcome to the forums! If you wanna spoiler stuff, just put SPOILER in [ ] brackets at the top of whatever you wanna hide, and and /SPOILER in brackets at the bottom (i have to format the explanation this way or else it'll just end up in a spoiler tag).

Second, that's a really good moveset! The neutral-b is exactly what I always envisioned for a Persona rep, so points for that~

 

[MeatOfJustice]

Ok, my speculation/wishes:

Gimmick: Persona change. Joker can use Shield+b (as inklings) to change Personas. He has 5 in total: Arsene, Jack Frost, Thor, Pixie and Jack o Lantern.

Jab: Small dagger swings directly in front of Joker.
Neutral Infinite: Lot of quick dagger swings in front of Joker, ends with a gun shot.

F-tilt: Wide dagger swing in front of Joker.
U-tilt: Upwards swing with Joker's gun, shoots small knockback bullets in a diagonal angle, only if you keep the button pressed.
D-tilt: Slide through the ground in style. Can do a full jump/short hop out of the animation whenever.

N-air: Two quick dagger swings in front of him, in a slight downwards diagonal angle.
F-air: Bullet shot in front of him, travels small distance.
B-air: Backwards kick, one hit.
U-air: Wide dagger swing over him.
D-air: Plunges to the ground looking cool (Joker), can be comboed into D-tilt.

F-Smash: Uses current persona to do a wide attack in front of him. Can have a darkness (Eiha), Ice (Bufu), Electric (Zio), Wind (Garu) or Fire (Agi) effect, depending on the Persona.
D-Smash: Slashes the floor with the dagger in front and behind him. If catches people at the ledge it can spike.
U-Smash: Fires gun directly above him.

Grab-jab: Opponent gets punched by the current persona while Joker holds the opponent with one hand and his gun pointing at him.
D-Throw: Slams opponent against the ground in front of him.
F-Throw: Jumps from opponents chest, moving backwards and throwing his opponent forwards. High knockback.
B-Throw: Jumps over opponent's shoulders, moving Joker forwards and throwing his opponent backwards. High knockback.
U-Throw: Throws opponent above him and fires his gun upwards.



Specials:
Neutral B:
Sends small projectile in front of him, with a different attribute depending on persona equipped.
- Arsene: Eiha. Sends shadows directly forwards, mid-range from where Joker is. Multi-hit and small knockback.
- Jack Frost: Bufu. Sends ice shards directly forwards, short-range from where Joker is. One hit and small knockback, with a chance of freezing at high %.
- Thor: Zio. Sends a lighting bolt directly forwards with a slight upwards angle. Quite quick travel speed and long-range from where Joker is. Small knockback.
- Pixie: Garu. Sends waves of air directly forwards that also cover the ground level. Long range and multi-hit when it connects.
- Jack o Lantern: Agi. Detonates a small explosion short-range in front of Joker. High knockback.


Down B:
Buffs Joker for a small amount of time. Needs to be charged similar to Wii Fit Trainer's Down B.
- Arsene / Jack Frost: Rakukaja. Increases defense, lowering knockback received for a while.
- Thor / Jack o Lantern: Tarukaja. Increases attack, increasing knockback dealt for a while.
- Pixie: Sukukaja. Increases movement speed and jump height very slightly for a while.


Up B:
Wings of Rebellion: Sends Joker flying upwards. Effect/distance varies depending on Persona equipped.
- Arsene: Arsene appears behind Joker and flies upwards with him. Regular distance with a wide hitbox above Joker (Think Mario's Up-B on distance/angle)
- Jack Frost: Jack frost appears below Joker and creates a "step" with both hands interlocked (don't know how to explain this in English...), having Joker jump from it and sending him directly upwards with small ice particle effects surrounding him. Small hitbox all around Joker, but can be broken with a strong attack. (Think Kirby's Up-B on upwards trajectory)
- Thor: Thor appears behind Joker and swings his hammer upwards, allowing Joker to raise with him. (Think Simon's Up-B on distance/angle/power, but with an electric effect)
- Pixie: Pixie appears behind Joker and creates gusts of wind that sends him flying upwards. No hitbox whatsoever, except for the landing and first frames of the gusts of wind. (Think Inkling's Up-B in terms of distance).
- Jack o Lantern: Jack o Lantern appears behind Joker and creates an explosion below him, sending Joker flying slightly upwards (Think Dr. Mario's Up-B on distance/angle). Has no hitbox above Joker, but the explosion can spike opponents on the first few frames.


Side B:
Ambush. Joker leaps forwards. If it catches people, he stands atop their shoulders and can do one of the following actions:
Attack - A button. Small jabs.
Throw - Forward or Backward stick movement: Similar to F-throw or D-throw, but with small knockback.
Disable - B button. Knocks on the head with the gun, trips opponent and makes Joker do a short hop upwards and backwards.
If nothing is pressed or the opponent mashes out of the movement, the "release grab" animation is played.

Final Smash: All Out Attack. All characters on the screen trip and Joker has a few seconds to hit as many as he can with attacks. After these few seconds, whomever he hit goes into the "All Out Attack" screen, where Joker and all his party members (except Futaba, ofc) raid on the opponents. Does around 40% damage, although small horizontal knockback. If the enemie/s are over 100% damage when the attack ends, they are insta-killed (Think Zelda's FS) and one of the "all out attack" screens form any of the party members appears.




Whoo! Sorry for the long post. If anyone can share with me the "Spoiler" code I'd be grateful, I'm still kinda new here :D

I think I know what you mean with "step", the right word is stool.
Stat changes are Shulk's thing and I don't think the development team would do that again with Joker, so I'd have the Persona swapping as the Down B.

 

[Sigran101]

I could see all out attack being Joker's down b. He''d basically do a dash forward to connect with his opponent. If it hits while they are knocked down, he does the all out attack, and it's super powerful. If his opponent is standing or in the air, it does nothing even if it hits. I still think it would be much better as a final smash, but that could be a way to incorporate it if Satanael is the final smash.

 

[Pski]

So, as we all know, we've been blessed with one of the single greatest announcements in Smash Bros. history today. But we didn't get any gameplay with it, which means it's time for some speculation! What do you think will be included in Joker's moveset? Do you think he'll make use of the Wild Card? Will he use his guns? Will his Final Smash be an All-Out Attack, or will it be Satanael?

Discuss!

joker will probably be relatively fast and light, with pretty high jump height. i think his knife will give him some short-range disjoints, and i think the gun might work well as his jab (think mega man but sorta different). maybe his side special could be sort of like PM lucario's down special and grant joker a sort of cross up modeled after the stealth aspects of p5. attacking from behind could maybe give joker some kind of frame advantage like the ambush mechanic in p5. smash attacks could use arsene to do sort of palutena's smashes, and of course, the final smash would be an all-out attack.
other stuff: victory animations could be some of the victory screens from p5 as well as a recreation of joker's all-out attack screen. entrance animation could have the "entering metaverse" effect.
if i have more ideas, i may post later

 

[MojoRobo]

I have some ideas for a special moveset for Joker. No normals since it'd just be a lot of the same, but I did have an idea for his Dsmash to be unloading a bunch of rounds from his gun into the floor, kinda like Eltnum's 22X in UNiST.

Spoiler: Moveset

Shield B - Wild Card - Hold down the B button to bring up a small menu wheel around Joker, displaying three different Personas to choose from. Using the control stick to select and releasing the B button to confirm, Joker will switch to the selected Persona, changing all of his specials. The desired Persona to start the match with can be chosen at the character select screen. Joker has three Personas to choose from: Arsene, Pixie, and Yo****sune.

Neutral B (Arsene) - Eigaon - Arsene charges up Eigaon before throwing it forwards. Multi-hit projectile. On hit, ends with a large explosion. Can be canceled to store the projectile for later use or further charging.

Neutral B (Pixie) - Elemental Skills - Pixie begins to charge up a projectile that will either be Agidyne, Bufudyne, Ziodyne, or Garudyne. Automatically cycles through each while charging. Cycling will continue until the move is canceled or Joker fires the projectile. Canceling the move and charging again will pick up where it was left off. Agidyne is multi-hit and carries the opponent with it on hit. Bufudyne freezes opponents. Ziodyne stuns the opponent. Garudyne is single-hit but has a powerful windbox that moves with it.

Neutral B (Yo****sune) - Agneyastra - Yo****sune forms a large meteor above his head from the tip of one of his swords before throwing it down to the ground at an angle. Multi-hit and explodes once it lands on the ground. Holding the button will delay the attack and make the meteor bigger. Cannot be canceled during the charge.

Side B (Arsene) - One-Shot Kill - Arsene snaps his fingers before launching out a large, powerful projectile ahead. Multi-hit and has high launching power.

Side B (Pixie) - Makajama - Pixie casts Makajama in a straight line ahead of joker. Projectile. If an opponent is hit by it they will be unable to use their special moves for a short time.

Side B (Yo****sune) - Brave Blade - Joker slides across the ground with Yo****sune, attacking at the opponent’s feet with his swords. Pressing B again launches the opponent away with a uppercut slash. On hit, first half is multi-hit, but is only a single hit on shields.

Up B (Arsene) - Abyssal Wings - Arsene spreads his wings and rises quickly into the air in the direction specified, carrying Joker with him. Becomes surrounded by Arsene's dark energy while moving, damaging enemies in his path. Multi-hit. If an opponent is caught by the multi-hit, will end with a powerful finishing move.

Up B (Pixie) - Psycho Force - Joker disappears before reappearing a set distance away in the direction held. If Joker passed through an opponent while teleporting, they will be stunned and attacked by Pixie once they reappears, being launched away.

Up B (Yo****sune) - Rising Slash - Joker jumps into the air with Yo****sune as he slashes upwards through the air. High vertical distance but little horizontal distance. Becomes extremely powerful if used in a combo.

Down B (Arsene) - Tetra Break - Arsene winds up before quickly slashing in front of Joker. Can be charged. Deals massive shield damage. Instantly breaks shields if fully charged.

Down B (Pixie) - Mind Charge - Pixie casts mind charge, powering up her Neutral B. Agidyne, Bufudyne, Ziodyne, and Garudyne will become Inferno, Diamond Dust, Thunder Reign, and Panta Rhei respectively. Inferno makes the projectile bigger and ends with a massive pillar of flame erupting from the ground, dragging the opponent upwards. Diamond Dust freezes and will deal damage to the opponent when they are frozen. Thunder Reign is multi-hit and will leave the opponent stunned for longer. Panta Rhei is multi-hit and launches the opponent at a low angle.

Down B (Yo****sune) - God’s Hand - Yo****sune swings his sword downwards, calling down a giant golden fist that punches into the ground in front of Joker. Massive damage and knockback and a powerful spike. Buries grounded opponents on the first hit before launching them away. Can be used in the air. If used off-stage, fist will travel downwards until offscreen.

Final Smash - All-Out Attack - Futaba appears, sending a tractor beam in front of Joker from aboard Necronomicon, knocking down all opponents caught by the attack. Joker and a random assortment of his fellow Phantom Thieves will perform an all-out attack on the downed opponents. High damage and decent knockback. If opponents are over 100%, becomes an instant kill and has Joker do his AOA finishing pose. Joker’s possible partners can be Ryuji, Morgana, Ann, Yusuke, Makoto, Haru, and Akechi.

(Alternative Final Smashes)

(Arsene) - Satanael - Joker grabs floating, glowing chains all around him and breaks them, forming a hitbox around him. On a successful hit, Satanael will be summoned and unleash Sinful Shell on all enemies caught in the initial hitbox. High damage and knockback.

(Pixie) - Megidolaon - Pixie appears and forms Megidolaon in the form of a massive, white projectile before flinging it at the stage. Multi-hit and has a powerful ending hit.

(Yo****sune) - Hassou Tobi - Yo****sune rushes forwards, hitting any opponent in his path. On hit, Yo****sune will perform Hassou Tobi on all caught opponents, slashing them 7 times before launching them away with an 8th hit. Extremely high damage but low knockback.

Some of the scrapped ideas for specials were Arsene having Dream Needle in place of Tetra Break, which would put opponents to sleep. Pixie also had Dia, which worked similarly to how Yukiko uses it in the arena games, where it's a defensive "get off me" option on its startup that also heals Joker as he holds it.

Also: some alt color ideas
1st - Default
2nd - Ryuji/Skull
3rd - Ann/Panther
4th - Yusuke/Fox
5th - Makoto/Queen
6th - Futaba/Oracle
7th - Haru/Noir
8th - Something else, whether it be coloring him like a Velvet Room attendant or another Persona protagonist. Either Yu, Makoto, or even Tatsuya or Maya could work.

EDIT: Wow lmao I can't believe this site censors Yoshi's name. For the record, the 3rd Persona is this guy:

 

[Pski]

just my idea for Joker

GIMMICKS
Ambush - Attacking enemies from behind will always cause them to trip
SP - Any attacks using Arsene will drain SP from a meter by his portrait that recharges passively
BULLETS - Gun attacks all share the same ammo resource, using a max of 16 rounds before it needs to recharge like Robin's tomes.

STATS - Fast dash and fall speed. Probably lightweight or mid-lightweight. High jump height.

JAB - gun. Medium range damage/stuffing tool. Has a chance to crit and trip opponents.
FTILT - 3-hit combo like his basic attack in P5
UTILT - Double kick (like sonic Utilt)
DTILT - Slide attack (like cloud/mega man)

NAIR - gun again. the animation can be taken from the "down shot" ability and has a chance to trip opponents.
FAIR - Spinning knife attack (somewhat like Link)
BAIR - Back kick (like Ridley/Sonic)
UAIR - Double kick (like Inkling)
DAIR - Dive kick (like Simon/Richter, but with a more stylish flip if landed)

FSMASH - Cleave (Arsene strikes out in front of Joker)
DSMASH - Arsene (like Palutena)
USMASH - Eiha (Arsene uses eiha right on top of Joker)

NEUTRAL SPECIAL - Dream Needle
Arsene stabs out in front of Joker. The attack has a sweetspot that puts opponents to sleep.

SIDE SPECIAL - Sneak
Basically a roll that executes much faster and can be cancelled into an attack or grab. Can be used to cross up opponents, but startup gets longer with every consecutive use like other dodges.

UP SPECIAL - Lunge
Joker jumps up to reach for the ledge, carried by Arsene's wings. Distance is about the same as Corrin's up special, but Joker's jump height should be a good enough recovery in most cases.

DOWN SPECIAL - Down Shot
One input activates basically ZSS flip kick. Pressing the special button midair will use up all the bullets in Joker's gun, but cause opponents to go into full crumple if the attack connects.

 

[Orion The Hunter]

I made a full moveset for him. I don't thnk he'll use his Wild Card ability. I think he's specifically gonna use Arsene just to keep his moveset more focused.

Stage : Shujin Academy
I think the stage that Joker will come with is Shujin Academy, the high school he transfers to in P5. I couldn't tell you how they will make the actual stage layout, looking at past DLC character maps doesn't really help.
I think that the stage will have a day/night cycle. It will start during the day, and when the time of day goes to the Evening/After School time, the stage will transform into Kamoshida's Castle. There would be small details in this part of the stage, like pink splashes coming from the ground when characters move around. After a set period of time, the stage will go back to the Academy, only at Night, and then it cycles back around.

Joker Moveset
Joker will be a slightly more technical character than most other fighters. He will have the ability to unleash his Persona, Arsene, changing some of his Special moves. Along with this, when Arsene is out, he acts like a Luma or Nana, attacking when Joker attacks and increasing his overall damage output.The downside with Arsene being out is that Joker becomes much larger of a target as Arsene constantly hovers behind him, (Unlike with Luma and Nana who move with Rosalina and Popo, but can be seperated from them.)

Unique Mechanic(s)
SP: Just like Joker's gun runs on bullets, Arsene will run on SP, as visualized as a pink meter above Joker's percent. When Arsene uses a Skill (Skills are Arsene's special moves), like Dream Needle or Eiha, it uses up MP. If Joker takes damage while Arsene is out, SP will drain. If Joker runs out of SP, than he must wait for it to recharge fully before he can summon his Persona again.
Adverse Resolve: When Joker reaches above 120 percent or if he is in last place in 3+ player Smash, Arsene's attack power becomes increased and his SP charges more quickly.

Grab
- Joker grabs the opponent with one hand and knees them for the pummel. If Arsene is out when Joker grabs someone, instead he will kick them for extra pummel damage.
- All of the throws will be fairly standard, except for his Down Throw which could be a reference to the animation Joker has when he Ambushes a Shadow in P5. Joker jumps on top of his opponent's shoulders and tears away an invisible mask, leaving the opponent prone on the ground.

Normals
- Jab: A fast side kick into 2 slashes with his knife.
- Dash Attack: Slides along the ground with a kick. Easily low-profiles under a lot of attacks.
Tilts
- Side: Leans forward and swipes his knife quickly.
- Up: Simple stab with his knife, directly above his head.
- Down: Does a fairly quick leg-sweep attack that can trip opponents.
Smash Attacks
- Side: Performs a 3-hit slash combo reminiscent of his basic Attack from P5.
- Up: A standard backflip kick attack.
- Down: Sweeps his knife along the ground as he spins in a circle.

Specials
Joker Neutral - Model Gun: Joker pulls out his Model Gun and shoots a single bullet. You can press multiple times to shoot more in one sitting, up to 8 shots. Joker only has 16 shots and the ammo cannot be replenished normally. When Joker dies, the ammo is replenished. Deals high shield damage and if you hit an opponent with multiple shots in a row, they will go into an extended crumple state. (Similar to Ryu when he lands a fully charged Focus Attack.) This move has considerable endlag.
Arsene Neutral - Dream Needle: Arsene and Joker shoot a single large needle projectile. It will put people to sleep at high percents, but only deal minimal damage and no knockback at low percents.

Joker Side - Baton Pass: Joker calls out one of his partners to come in and assist him with a single attack. The partners come out in this order:
- Morgana will come out and shoot his slingshot three times.
- Ryuji will come out and slowly wind up a powerful swing with his lead pipe.
- Ann will flail her whip wildly and lockdown opponents who are caught.
- Yusuke will quickly slash with his katana.
Taunting with a partner out will have Joker and them do a unique taunt animation, such as Morgana giving Joker a high-five or Yusuke and Joker emulating Jesus as he was crucified. (This is more of a wish than something that I think would actually happen in Smash if this move turned out to be real.)
Arsene Side - Cleave: A powerful attack where Arsene whips a long chain ahead of Joker, caked in blue flames. Instead of spending SP, it instead gives Joker 10% when used.

Joker Up - Phantom Leap: Joker dives into the air and reaches for the nearest ledge very quickly as a black shadowy figure. If he grabs the edge while using this move, then the ledge-option to Jump up leaves him jumping up much higher then normal. If he uses this and he intercepts an enemy, it will force a than he will jump off of them and they will be knocked in the direction he was moving towards.
Arsene Up - Eiha: Joker is propelled by a pillar of dark energy. Deals alright damage, but mainly to be used to recover.

Down - Persona!: Joker calls out Arsene, releasing a wave of flames around him as Arsene opens his wings. You use this move to put him away as well, except there is no damaging hitbox when he disappears.

Final Smash - All-Out Attack: Joker and Arsene rush forward and slash the enemy to the ground. The background becomes bright red as Joker, Ryuji, Anne and Morgana (Maybe Yusuke as well because he was in Joker's reveal trailer) all jump up and quickly beat up the opponent. Joker and his team's faces flash on the screen before this takes place.

I agree completely.

 

[Orion The Hunter]

I have some ideas for a special moveset for Joker. No normals since it'd just be a lot of the same, but I did have an idea for his Dsmash to be unloading a bunch of rounds from his gun into the floor, kinda like Eltnum's 22X in UNiST.

Spoiler: Moveset

Shield B - Wild Card - Hold down the B button to bring up a small menu wheel around Joker, displaying three different Personas to choose from. Using the control stick to select and releasing the B button to confirm, Joker will switch to the selected Persona, changing all of his specials. The desired Persona to start the match with can be chosen at the character select screen. Joker has three Personas to choose from: Arsene, Pixie, and Yo****sune.

Neutral B (Arsene) - Eigaon - Arsene charges up Eigaon before throwing it forwards. Multi-hit projectile. On hit, ends with a large explosion. Can be canceled to store the projectile for later use or further charging.

Neutral B (Pixie) - Elemental Skills - Pixie begins to charge up a projectile that will either be Agidyne, Bufudyne, Ziodyne, or Garudyne. Automatically cycles through each while charging. Cycling will continue until the move is canceled or Joker fires the projectile. Canceling the move and charging again will pick up where it was left off. Agidyne is multi-hit and carries the opponent with it on hit. Bufudyne freezes opponents. Ziodyne stuns the opponent. Garudyne is single-hit but has a powerful windbox that moves with it.

Neutral B (Yo****sune) - Agneyastra - Yo****sune forms a large meteor above his head from the tip of one of his swords before throwing it down to the ground at an angle. Multi-hit and explodes once it lands on the ground. Holding the button will delay the attack and make the meteor bigger. Cannot be canceled during the charge.

Side B (Arsene) - One-Shot Kill - Arsene snaps his fingers before launching out a large, powerful projectile ahead. Multi-hit and has high launching power.

Side B (Pixie) - Makajama - Pixie casts Makajama in a straight line ahead of joker. Projectile. If an opponent is hit by it they will be unable to use their special moves for a short time.

Side B (Yo****sune) - Brave Blade - Joker slides across the ground with Yo****sune, attacking at the opponent’s feet with his swords. Pressing B again launches the opponent away with a uppercut slash. On hit, first half is multi-hit, but is only a single hit on shields.

Up B (Arsene) - Abyssal Wings - Arsene spreads his wings and rises quickly into the air in the direction specified, carrying Joker with him. Becomes surrounded by Arsene's dark energy while moving, damaging enemies in his path. Multi-hit. If an opponent is caught by the multi-hit, will end with a powerful finishing move.

Up B (Pixie) - Psycho Force - Joker disappears before reappearing a set distance away in the direction held. If Joker passed through an opponent while teleporting, they will be stunned and attacked by Pixie once they reappears, being launched away.

Up B (Yo****sune) - Rising Slash - Joker jumps into the air with Yo****sune as he slashes upwards through the air. High vertical distance but little horizontal distance. Becomes extremely powerful if used in a combo.

Down B (Arsene) - Tetra Break - Arsene winds up before quickly slashing in front of Joker. Can be charged. Deals massive shield damage. Instantly breaks shields if fully charged.

Down B (Pixie) - Mind Charge - Pixie casts mind charge, powering up her Neutral B. Agidyne, Bufudyne, Ziodyne, and Garudyne will become Inferno, Diamond Dust, Thunder Reign, and Panta Rhei respectively. Inferno makes the projectile bigger and ends with a massive pillar of flame erupting from the ground, dragging the opponent upwards. Diamond Dust freezes and will deal damage to the opponent when they are frozen. Thunder Reign is multi-hit and will leave the opponent stunned for longer. Panta Rhei is multi-hit and launches the opponent at a low angle.

Down B (Yo****sune) - God’s Hand - Yo****sune swings his sword downwards, calling down a giant golden fist that punches into the ground in front of Joker. Massive damage and knockback and a powerful spike. Buries grounded opponents on the first hit before launching them away. Can be used in the air. If used off-stage, fist will travel downwards until offscreen.

Final Smash - All-Out Attack - Futaba appears, sending a tractor beam in front of Joker from aboard Necronomicon, knocking down all opponents caught by the attack. Joker and a random assortment of his fellow Phantom Thieves will perform an all-out attack on the downed opponents. High damage and decent knockback. If opponents are over 100%, becomes an instant kill and has Joker do his AOA finishing pose. Joker’s possible partners can be Ryuji, Morgana, Ann, Yusuke, Makoto, Haru, and Akechi.

(Alternative Final Smashes)

(Arsene) - Satanael - Joker grabs floating, glowing chains all around him and breaks them, forming a hitbox around him. On a successful hit, Satanael will be summoned and unleash Sinful Shell on all enemies caught in the initial hitbox. High damage and knockback.

(Pixie) - Megidolaon - Pixie appears and forms Megidolaon in the form of a massive, white projectile before flinging it at the stage. Multi-hit and has a powerful ending hit.

(Yo****sune) - Hassou Tobi - Yo****sune rushes forwards, hitting any opponent in his path. On hit, Yo****sune will perform Hassou Tobi on all caught opponents, slashing them 7 times before launching them away with an 8th hit. Extremely high damage but low knockback.

Some of the scrapped ideas for specials were Arsene having Dream Needle in place of Tetra Break, which would put opponents to sleep. Pixie also had Dia, which worked similarly to how Yukiko uses it in the arena games, where it's a defensive "get off me" option on its startup that also heals Joker as he holds it.

Also: some alt color ideas
1st - Default
2nd - Ryuji/Skull
3rd - Ann/Panther
4th - Yusuke/Fox
5th - Makoto/Queen
6th - Futaba/Oracle
7th - Haru/Noir
8th - Something else, whether it be coloring him like a Velvet Room attendant or another Persona protagonist. Either Yu, Makoto, or even Tatsuya or Maya could work.

EDIT: Wow lmao I can't believe this site censors Yoshi's name. For the record, the 3rd Persona is this guy:
View attachment 186299

I like where you're going with the alt costumes. I feel that since it's Smash bros x P5 ,not just persona, it would be someone from that game. It is a stretch but I feel like Akechi would be the last costume.

 

[Sigran101]

I don't care what they do with his moveset as long as they just do a couple of things.

1. Use personas in most moves. At the very least all specials (except maybe up), all smashes, some arials, and some throws. 99% of the time you use personas to fight. It's very rare that you use your basic attack to fight, so I don't like movesets that have him as mostly a swordsman.

2. Incorporate the gun somehow. Even if it's just for one move.

3. Please no SP mechanic. There's literally no reason to do this. Practically any JRPG character could have this. Why force it on a character that's plenty unique without it? It's just unnecessary and takes away from what he should really be about which is personas.

TLDR: No SP, more persona moves, and use the gun somewhere.

 

[Deleted member]

Anybody want to get a little bet pool going? Only reward being bragging rights essentially? lol.

I'd like to bet on some things that I'm confident that Joker will have. Just for fun (even if nobody accepts the proposal), I'll post my 'bets':
1. Arsene will be used in the moveset in some capacity*
2. Jack Frost will be used in the moveset in some capacity*
3. the 'Gun' ability from Persona 5 will be one of Joker's specials
4. 'All Out Attack' will be Joker's Final Smash
5. The '1 More' mechanic that results from a Critical Hit (or Weakness hit) will be used (and incorporated as a Stun; possibly as a 'Sweet Spot' from one of Joker's specials)
6. Mementos will be the stage accompanying Joker (Hoping for one that goes through different Palaces or the Velvet Room a least, but it likely won't be)


*I'm thinking the Personas will be his Specials, though they could be used for Smash attacks or even a grab. Even though he can have up to 12, I think he'll only have the two; Arsene (his starting one) and Jack Frost, the mascot.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Man, I really hope Persona 5 gets ported to Switch. I really want to play it, especially since I just watched the anime.

My goal is to have played at least one game in every franchise represented by a playable fighter in Smash.

 

[Sigran101]

Anybody want to get a little bet pool going? Only reward being bragging rights essentially? lol.

I'd like to bet on some things that I'm confident that Joker will have. Just for fun (even if nobody accepts the proposal), I'll post my 'bets':
1. Arsene will be used in the moveset in some capacity*
2. Jack Frost will be used in the moveset in some capacity*
3. the 'Gun' ability from Persona 5 will be one of Joker's specials
4. 'All Out Attack' will be Joker's Final Smash
5. The '1 More' mechanic that results from a Critical Hit (or Weakness hit) will be used (and incorporated as a Stun; possibly as a 'Sweet Spot' from one of Joker's specials)
6. Mementos will be the stage accompanying Joker (Hoping for one that goes through different Palaces or the Velvet Room a least, but it likely won't be)


*I'm thinking the Personas will be his Specials, though they could be used for Smash attacks or even a grab. Even though he can have up to 12, I think he'll only have the two; Arsene (his starting one) and Jack Frost, the mascot.

I have to disagree about persona moves just being specials. Joker isn't a swordsman with summoning abilities. He's a summoner with a knife attack. All the combat in persona is based around the actual personas.

 

[Pski]

I have to disagree about persona moves just being specials. Joker isn't a swordsman with summoning abilities. He's a summoner with a knife attack. All the combat in persona is based around the actual personas.

That's certainly true, but that didn't really stop sakurai from giving the inkling kicks and punches while still feeling incredibly faithful to the splatoon series. I agree that personas should be used in more than just specials, but i feel it would seem more fitting for most of his moves to be acrobatic and stylish knife/gun/kick attacks, keeping the personas for more cinematic moves like specials and smashes.
sidenote: I'm honestly not really a fan of using personas outside of Arsene. His in game gimmick is being the "wild card", sure, but
- more personas means more models means more development time meaning it'll be like a full year before we can play joker
-switching movesets is already Pokemon Trainer's thing and changing stats is already Shulk's thing
-Joker's moveset could easily become somewhat incoherent and muddy if a miriad of different personas were used. Sakurai likes to envision his fighters "dancing powerfully" and at least in my mind joker should be more focused on his acrobatics and showmanship than his "wild card" ability (in smash at least. and thats just my opinion so yknow)

 

[Sigran101]

That's certainly true, but that didn't really stop sakurai from giving the inkling kicks and punches while still feeling incredibly faithful to the splatoon series. I agree that personas should be used in more than just specials, but i feel it would seem more fitting for most of his moves to be acrobatic and stylish knife/gun/kick attacks, keeping the personas for more cinematic moves like specials and smashes.
sidenote: I'm honestly not really a fan of using personas outside of Arsene. His in game gimmick is being the "wild card", sure, but
- more personas means more models means more development time meaning it'll be like a full year before we can play joker
-switching movesets is already Pokemon Trainer's thing and changing stats is already Shulk's thing
-Joker's moveset could easily become somewhat incoherent and muddy if a miriad of different personas were used. Sakurai likes to envision his fighters "dancing powerfully" and at least in my mind joker should be more focused on his acrobatics and showmanship than his "wild card" ability (in smash at least. and thats just my opinion so yknow)

Inkling only has a few punches and kicks though. Can you imagine them only using ink for their specials and just punching and kicking for the rest? Joker doesn't have to be all persona moves but he should be mostly persona moves. I do agree that he should focus on Arsene though. He doesn't need some kind of shulk or Pokemon trainer kind of mechanic.

 

[Pski]

Inkling only has a few punches and kicks though. Can you imagine them only using ink for their specials and just punching and kicking for the rest? Joker doesn't have to be all persona moves but he should be mostly persona moves. I do agree that he should focus on Arsene though. He doesn't need some kind of shulk or Pokemon trainer kind of mechanic.

I totally agree with you here. I think Arsene would be best used in all the same ways inkling uses her weapons: special moves and smash attacks, with more basic options filling in the tilts and aerials.
the thing I'm most excited to see is how his gun plays in his moveset like will they use a bullet system? I think it would be neat to have his bullets reload like Robin's tomes or something and I think I had a neat idea using down shot as his down special

DOWN SPECIAL - Down Shot
One input activates basically ZSS flip kick. Pressing the special button midair will use up all the bullets in Joker's gun, but cause opponents to go into full crumple if the attack connects.

 

[Parallelo]

Finally finished Persona 5 so I can get in on this discussion. I'm so hyped for Joker, easily a top contender for a main assuming he vibes with me.

Moveset speculation:

I think he'll have the wild card for sure. Each of his specials will be a Persona skill no doubt. As for which Persona, it'll be a random one (that can learn that attack) and it'll just be a slightly different animation of the Persona emerging from Joker, as well as Joker calling the Persona's unique name, but the attack itself will be identical each time. I also definitely think he'll have an SP/HP gimmick for his attacks.

Quick ideas:

Neutral B - Rest - Recovers SP. Recover damage if SP is full.

Side B - Elemental Attack - Essentially he calls a random persona to send a ball of x magic in front of him. Type of element changes/goes in an order similar to pikmin but damage/other properties don't change. Can be ice, fire, electric, wind, psychic or nuclear. Consumes SP

Up B - Eihago - Combining with Arsene to flying/carrying Joker upwards, Joker sends curse magic beneath him. Consumes SP

Down B - Dodge Shot/SpeedBuff? - Sort of like a mix between a counter and a bouncing fish style attack, Joker will dive in a direction while shooting behind him. If it gets a perfect dodge of an attack, the opponent crumples. Consumes SP.

Jabs/tilts will involve the knife and be fairly weak overall. Smash attacks could be various physical/gun skills from Persona and perhaps deal damage to Joker. I imagine Joker as being a speedy Robin in a lot of ways.

One of his grabs will absolutely 100% be the ambush "I'll reveal your true form" mask ripping attack.

 

[Bowserlick]

Looking at the wikipedia article about the combat style, I realised the spirit system in Smash Ultimate is exactly like the Persona system.

Perhaps, for a special move Joker can grab an opponent and gain a persona of them. From then on, he can use the special to create a magical illusion of the opponent in front of him to utilize their forward Smash (or alternatively, throw them out performing their dash attack).

 

[Luigifan18]

Looking at the wikipedia article about the combat style, I realised the spirit system in Smash Ultimate is exactly like the Persona system.

Perhaps, for a special move Joker can grab an opponent and gain a persona of them. From then on, he can use the special to create a magical illusion of the opponent in front of him to utilize their forward Smash (or alternatively, throw them out performing their dash attack).

Way to steal Kirby's gimmick...

 

[Bowserlick]

Up B: Arsane carries Joker into the air. Joker is chained to his torso. Gets two additional jump (Arsane flapping wings). All aerials change.

Side B: Shoots bullets as he retreats in the opposite direction. Goes less distance if used repeatedly. Has a built in re-charge.

Down B (command grab): Jumps on opponent and takes their persona. Next three smashes or dashes has Joker summon a spiritual version of the opponent to perform the move.

B: Holding B allows Joker to choose one of three Persona projectiles/moves, which appear around Joker like the menu in the game. Pressing B afterward fires the projectile. Holding B allows you to pick another.

That's what I got so far.

 

[Sigran101]

Finally finished Persona 5 so I can get in on this discussion. I'm so hyped for Joker, easily a top contender for a main assuming he vibes with me.

Moveset speculation:

I think he'll have the wild card for sure. Each of his specials will be a Persona skill no doubt. As for which Persona, it'll be a random one (that can learn that attack) and it'll just be a slightly different animation of the Persona emerging from Joker, as well as Joker calling the Persona's unique name, but the attack itself will be identical each time. I also definitely think he'll have an SP/HP gimmick for his attacks.

Quick ideas:

Neutral B - Rest - Recovers SP. Recover damage if SP is full.

Side B - Elemental Attack - Essentially he calls a random persona to send a ball of x magic in front of him. Type of element changes/goes in an order similar to pikmin but damage/other properties don't change. Can be ice, fire, electric, wind, psychic or nuclear. Consumes SP

Up B - Eihago - Combining with Arsene to flying/carrying Joker upwards, Joker sends curse magic beneath him. Consumes SP

Down B - Dodge Shot/SpeedBuff? - Sort of like a mix between a counter and a bouncing fish style attack, Joker will dive in a direction while shooting behind him. If it gets a perfect dodge of an attack, the opponent crumples. Consumes SP.

Jabs/tilts will involve the knife and be fairly weak overall. Smash attacks could be various physical/gun skills from Persona and perhaps deal damage to Joker. I imagine Joker as being a speedy Robin in a lot of ways.

One of his grabs will absolutely 100% be the ambush "I'll reveal your true form" mask ripping attack.

This is basically a variation of Robin. Surely the personas could be used for more than 2 moves.

 

[Aeon_Shadow]

When it comes to Joker's moveset: Do you think they could pull a Ness and just give him the Personas of his teammates all throughout his moveset?

* Like he could have Arsene, Captain Kidd, Zorro, Carmen and Goemon as some Neutral B wheel.
* Johanna could be in his Side-B
* Neconomicon as his Up-B
* And Milady in his Down-B

 

[Parallelo]

This is basically a variation of Robin. Surely the personas could be used for more than 2 moves.

You forgot about "Smash attacks could be various physical/gun skills from Persona" though which I think gives him a key difference. Plus if the down-B incorporates Sukukaja (speed/evasion magic) that could have Persona involved as well.

That being said, I did say that I thought Joker would be a speedy Robin.

 

[Sigran101]

You forgot about "Smash attacks could be various physical/gun skills from Persona" though which I think gives him a key difference. Plus if the down-B incorporates Sukukaja (speed/evasion magic) that could have Persona involved as well.

That being said, I did say that I thought Joker would be a speedy Robin.

I did miss that part. But I feel like a character like Joker should be entirely unlike any other character on the roster. He's got so much potential to be unique, it'd be a waste not to do something new with him. Making him like an existing character or giving him a mechanic any rpg character could have (SP mechanic) would be incredibly disappointing. The thing that makes Joker different from every other character is the personas. The focus should be on that.