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Little Mac, W.V.B.A. Champion confirmed for SSB4

Louie G.

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Hey Pizza, I was gonna PM you this on Youtube, but now that you're here, could you critique my moveset?
Around the height of Mario or Kirby unless he needs to proportionally be bigger.

Series Symbol: Boxing Glove with a Star

Music:
Punch Out Theme.
EVERY REMIX from Punch-Out!! Wii

Items.
Headgear? Reduces damage to head.
Aran Ryan's boxing glove on a rope. If you press A while holding it, you'll swing it over your head. If you press Down+A, it'll be swung downwards.

Assist Trophy: Magic Rush Attack OR a Blinking Jewel Combo.
Magic Rush will have him target an opponent and then make a clone of himself. While the clone is harmless, the real one does massive damage. The clone and real one switch places sometimes so it's important to watch him closely.
The Blinking Jewel Combo will start out with the Jewel on his turban flashing a combination of colors, and the combinations determine the attacks that follow, sort of like Marth's Dancing Slash.

Stages: WVBA Boxing Arena, complete with Louis Codecs.

Alt colors: Doc Louis colors, Pink jogging suit, Champion suit, other assorted colors.

Actual Moveset.
A,A,A-Jab combo: alternating left and right. If you continue pressing A, he'll continue to Jab. Can be comboed into Up tilt.
Up Tilt-Hook: He'll quickl punch upwards, and should you press Up+A again, he'll continue to hook upwards, sort of like a second jab combo, only upwards. Can Be comboed into Jab.
(Note. Hits are not as fast as other infinite combos, but deal enough hitstun to combo opponents temporarily. Can combo into Up Special)
Side Tilt-Straight Punch: A simple, straight punch.
Down Tilt-Low Blow: Quick, low, ducking jab.
Dash Attack: Quick running punch. Causes opponent to fall down. (See Bald Bull KO Cutscene, Punch-Out!! Wii)
Ledge attack: Climbs back onto stage, then punches.

Guard: Blocks face with gloves while surronunded by shield.
Dodge Roll: Quickly sidesteps to the side of the opponent.
Dodge: Tilts body to dodge, such as in his own games.

Smashes:
Side Smash: A strong, forward punch. Decent damage and knockback.
Up Smash: Strong upward hook. Slightly below average vertical knockback, but strong damage.
Down Smash: Spins while punching. Damage is below average, only about 15% for each side, but is ridiculously fast in execution/attack speed.

Air:
Neutral: Spins around while punching.
Forward: Punches straight twice, exhaling sharply. Ya know, like boxers do.
Back: Back Knuckle Punch
Up: Punches upwards quickly.
Down: Meteor Smash Punch downwards, similar to Samus' Dair.

Specials
Neutral Special: KO PUNCH. A strong punch that is chargeable, but not storeable. Rather than winding up, he will just prepare the punch, by bringing his arm back. Sort of like a Falcon Punch. Except instead of dealing powerful knockback, it knocks the ememy down. Unlike a normal state of knockdown, the victim must rapidly tap the buttons to stand back up. Should Little Mac Taunt while the enemy is knocked down like this, he will regain health.

Side Special: Infiltration. Rushes forward, infiltrating the enemy's defenses should he touch an enemy. He dodges most attacks as he rushes forward. Pressing B again will follow up with a second punch, and again for a third. If timed correctly, the three punches strung together will beget a Star.

Up Special: Star Punch: The Star Punch is Mac's signature attack. It easily breaks through shields. With no stars it is a basic weak uppercut, dealing about 6-7%.
On the ground:
1 Star: A decently powerful upward strike, does not jump. 10-12% but decent knockback.
2 Stars: Even Stronger. No jump still. Just a strong powerful upward punch, 15-20 damage, above average knockback.
3 Stars: Very Strong, very fast. A jumping uppercut while spinning once. Vertical knockback is extreme, and will KO at medium damage, around 50-70%. The attack itself deals 25-30 damage. Mac's finshing move.
Works similarly in the air. Does not propel him upward a very far distance.
Down Special: Taunt Block.
Everyone has been suggesting a counter for a down special, and I agree. Mac is based around dodging and blocking. Mine can be used offensively or defensively however. It works like this.
Mac assumes a defensive stance, covering his face with his gloves. If an opponent should attack him while he assumes the stance, Mac will block in and counter with a strong punch. PLEASE NOTE that this move is different than other counters. This move is to be used in ANTICIPATION of an attack, as the window of opportunity for the counter to work lasts only a split second. However, when Mac assumes the stance, if he is close to an enemy, it will force them to taunt. This is a reference to Punch-Out!! Wii. In Punch- Out!! Wii his opponents often underestimate him, and show this by taunting him.

Grabs:
Most people suggest a double handed punch, like Bear Hugger's Bear Hug, or to clench an opponent.
I suggest to use one of Mac's signature abilities: The Stun Punch.
Also known as "The Dizzy Punch", Mac will do a quick jab that stuns the opponent. From there...
Pummel: Mac will repeatedly punch the opponent.
Forward: Mac will punch the opponent with enough force to spin the opponent around similar to the Cape. Mac can follow up with a number of attacks. Reference to Disco Kid KO cutscene.
Up: Mac deals a punch to the solar plexis (gut) and follows it up with a powerful upwards strike.
Back: Mac runs behind the enemy, and punchs while whirling around to face them.
Down. Punches enemy who grows a flower on their head, and then falls down. The flower does what it does in Brawl. Reference to Don Flamenco's KO Cutscene, in which his rose turns black and wilts, attached to his body as he is KO'd.
NOTE: Each character has a unique thing flying over their head when stunned by the Dizzy Punch. (i.e. Mario has his hat flying in circles over his head, Luigi has his, Peach has crowns flying in circles over her head, Bowser has Koopa Shells, etc.) As a reference to the Wii installment.

Final Smash: Champion Combo.
Many people wanted *ahem* Roid Rage as his FS. Many people wanted a combo ending in a 3 Star Punch. Well as it turns out, in Punch-Out!! Wii, there is such a thing.
During the final battle with Mr. Sandman in Title Defense mode, after a long and arduous battle, he will unleash his trump card. A LONG Dreamland Express, with multiple lightning quick and powerful uppercuts. And after that, should the attack fail, he will be exhausted. So exhausted that he is in infinite stun. Little Mac is then free to combo him to his heart's content, and slowly depleting Sandman's health, while also building Stars. The final blow can then be a 3 Star Punch, strong enough to put Sandman down in the dirt once and for all.
The final smash inspired by this would be a punch, that if it connects, would be followed by a long combo of punches, ending with a 3 Star Punch, just like in the game's Finale.

Taunts:
Up: Jump ropes in place.
Side: Punches in place.
Down: Mac begins doing situps.

Victory Theme:
Punch-Out Victory Theme.

Victory Poses.
1. Lifts the belt in the air, saying "WOOHOO!" Doc with him, eating chocolate.
2. Is lifted onto Doc's shoulder by Doc.
3. Doc lifts his arm up, as Mac looks happy.

Note:
Unique Star System.

How to GAIN Stars:
Successfully pull of Infiltration will all 3 hits with correct timing. Correct timing implies that you hit them again JUST as the brief hitstun wears off.
Attack an enemy while they are taunting.
Attack an enemy while they are charging a Smash Attack.
Attack an enemy, interrupting an attack by them.
Hit an enemy with a 0 Star Up Special.
Successfully land a fully charged Smash Attack.
Attack after Dodging/Sidestepping
Landing a Ledge Attack

How to Lose Stars:
Die.
Use the Star Punch.
Take a lot of damage.
Be hit by a Smash Attack.
(Note: Being KO'd, or Using the Star Punch uses all the stars. Taking a lot of damage or being hit by a Smash Attack lowers your Star Count by one.)

Taunting will show the number of stars you have over Mac's head.

Style and Strategy.

Mac is ALL about technique. It's about combos, skill, and knowing when to use each move. Mac's main strengths include combos, attack speed, and decent strength and knock back. His jump height is slightly above average. However, his main weaknesses are his fast falling speed, his pretty low weight, and his subpar recovery. However, his side special provides decent horizontal recovery. He does, however recover quickly from knockback and hitstun, having an innate ability to bounce back quickly from attacks, like in his own game. Getting Stars can be rather difficult. His most reliable method of getting stars are his Up and Down Specials. Comboing into his Up Special can beget a star quickly. Forcing the enemy taunt with the Down Special can also yield a star, or even TWO if he attacks a taunting enemy with a fully charged Smash Attack. Besides the Star System, Mac has one other Unique Trait. Mac dodges and sidesteps quickly, like in his own games, and can follow up almost immediately with an attack after dodging. (i.e. After sidestepping, Mac will follow up with a unique attack, a quick punch that begets a star, similar to a ledge attack.)
Hey Yoichi, I posted my moveset yesterday if you want to compare. Not as detailed as yours though...
 

Fatmanonice

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I don't know what it is but Little Mac fans seem to be a lot more patient than other character supporters and I can't really put my finger on why. Especially with the whole Ridley fiasco going down, I appreciate that this is one of the fan groups that is just quietly waiting this out. Maybe it's because he seems like a lock but I like the fact that nobody gets up in arms or threatens to boycott the game if he (for whatever reason) doesn't make the cut.
 
D

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I don't what it is but Little Mac fans seem to be a lot more patient than other character supporters and I can't really put my finger on why. Especially with the whole Ridley fiasco going down, I appreciate that this is one of the fan groups that is just quietly waiting this out. Maybe it's because he seems like a lock but I like the fact that nobody gets up in arms or threatens to boycott the game if he (for whatever reason) doesn't make the cut.
I bet things could change if Sakurai announces him to be an Assist Trophy. Let's hope that doesn't happen...
 

jaytalks

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I think the whole Ridley thing is proof of why Sakurai wants to change the game from a character based focus. He has said they could have just raised the stages and the characters. But he wants to series to still evolve, hence the 3DS version and customization, whatever that means.

I think Little Mac feel a bit more secure because of the "leak." But an announcement can change things. I just doubt this thread will get the traffic Ridley's did.
 

Smashoperatingbuddy123

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I woulden't worry about villagers gloves because of this

Somebody on gamefaqs posted this. The stars are what sinks it for me. It is absolutely a punch out stage. Does that mean we will absoulutely 100% get little mac? No but this does increase his chances I'd imagine. The punch out games had a bunch of "Circuits" to fight though this one is a "Super Smash Bros. Circuit" if you will. It's actually pretty darn clever.

First off, the audience is human, so you can rule out any possibility that this is a Kirby themed stage (all Kirby boxing rings have Kirby characters instead). The marquee's in the background are all dot styled, which is consistent with the marquees in Punch Out Wii, and even the title screen and round indicators for Mike Tyson's Punch Out.

All logos in Punch Out Wii are adorned with clusters of stars, which are usually in 3's because triple star punches are the most powerful punch in the game, as well as the "leaf vines" on the sides (forgive me; I don't know the term for this) and a ribbon at the top. The logo in the ring, while being smash themed, shares all of these characteristics.

3 star cluster on bottom: http://i.imgur.com/QSCAXpe.jpg
Minor/Major/World Circuit Emblems: http://i.imgur.com/oWzpteX.jpg

The ring ropes are also identical in both color and configuration as the Major Circuit ring in Punch Out Wii. Similarly, the corners are all identical colors and positions as the Punch Out Wii corners.

Major Circuit ropes, and World Circuit ribbon: http://i.imgur.com/UV4O3mB.png

Also, it's worth noting that the final fight in Punch Out Wii, Mr. Sandman, has a very particular entrance for both his Title Defense and Contender fights. He approaches the ring while there's a green laser light show that goes on behind him. Well, check this out...

Sandman intro: http://i.imgur.com/hvnTGDl.png
Mario in the ring: http://i.imgur.com/Odu2I7I.jpg

Same green laser show.

It would be real silly to think this is not a Punch Out themed stage. There is an abundance of intentional details that suggest otherwise.
And plus macs gloves are green not red
 

Kevandre

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I feel that the boxing ring stage they've shown proves that Mac will be in it. Even if it is showing as a Smash Bros themed stage, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Look at the Fire Emblem stage from Brawl- It has Smash Logos on the flags etc.

Plus, hey. If King K. Rool is in the game too, he can share that stage with Mac if they didn't want to make Gangplank Galleon (The final fight with K. Rool in DK64 was a Boxing Ring)
 

ErictheLone

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I don't know what it is but Little Mac fans seem to be a lot more patient than other character supporters and I can't really put my finger on why. Especially with the whole Ridley fiasco going down, I appreciate that this is one of the fan groups that is just quietly waiting this out. Maybe it's because he seems like a lock but I like the fact that nobody gets up in arms or threatens to boycott the game if he (for whatever reason) doesn't make the cut.
I thin it's also because this fanbase may be a little older than the others. I'm about to be 29, have wanted Little Mac since melee when I was still in high school.
 

SpaceJell0

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I thin it's also because this fanbase may be a little older than the others. I'm about to be 29, have wanted Little Mac since melee when I was still in high school.
Well I'm 16 and I've wanted Little Mac in since I got to play it on VC. I instantly fell in love. It's more of the laid back feelings of the supporters due to the lack of arguments and high likelihood of Little Mac's inclusion.
 

papagenos

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I thin it's also because this fanbase may be a little older than the others. I'm about to be 29, have wanted Little Mac since melee when I was still in high school.
I'm 26, wanted mac in melee and brawl and now FINALLY feel assured he'll be this time. This thread feels more like it's about showing support and discussing aspects of Mac and Punch-Out!! in the smash series than arguing why he should be included (most other character threads have a lot of argument). It's nice to have your most wanted character feel like a shoe-in...
 

StupendousMike

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Since we're playing the age game, I'm 27 and have also wanted Mac for a while. I hate to jinx it, but he just seems so inevitable at this point. I mean, he feels like the only "lock" as far as unannounced newcomers go. Not say he IS a lock, just that he feels like one, and every other support thread has this "cautious optimism" approach.
 

IsmaR

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I'm only 20, but grew up with my brothers playing both old-school games in front of me since I was in diapers. My first memories were literally of them cursing while trying to beat Super-Punch-Out!!!, particularly Hoy Quarlow and Rick/Nick Bruiser. Andhow Mike Tyson was impossible to beat.

Fast forward to the time I was about their age, the Punch-Out!!! Wii reboot came out, and the lot of us got together in an effort to beat it. Through both dumb sheer luck and patience, I was the only one of us able to get through the World Circuit. The moment I saw his "game face" upon challenging Mr. Sandman, I was sold as far as wanting him playable in Smash. He's the only of my top 5 wanted newcomers that I'm not worried about.
 

Smashoperatingbuddy123

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I'm pretty sure Mac is in despite villagers boxing gloves too much evidence suggest its little macs arena and plus villagers gloves are the wrong color so likely just a Coincidence
 

Yoichi Hiruma

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I don't see how Villager's boxing gloves mean anything for Little Mac negatively or positively.
Well the theory is that in the same manner as his Balloon Fighter move is a reference to the NES titles he got in one game, boxing could be another reference, to Punch-Out. Meaning it could possibly represent the NES characters who didn't get in.
 

ToothiestAura

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Well the theory is that in the same manner as his Balloon Fighter move is a reference to the NES titles he got in one game, boxing could be another reference, to Punch-Out. Meaning it could possibly represent the NES characters who didn't get in.
Oh my god, Villager has a bowling ball - Miis deconfirmed.
Oh my god, Villager has an axe - Hector deconfirmed.
Oh my god, Villager has a plant - Lip deconfimed.
Oh my god, Villager has a Slingshot - Young Link deconfirmed.
 

Yoichi Hiruma

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Oh my god, Villager has a bowling ball - Miis deconfirmed.
Oh my god, Villager has an axe - Hector deconfirmed.
Oh my god, Villager has a plant - Lip deconfimed.
Oh my god, Villager has a Slingshot - Young Link deconfirmed.
Never said I agreed with it, but hey, it's just a theory. A Game Theory.
 

Fatmanonice

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I thin it's also because this fanbase may be a little older than the others. I'm about to be 29, have wanted Little Mac since melee when I was still in high school.
I'll admit, I'm 25 but Punch Out wasn't a game I played until 2007 on the Wii's VC. Growing up, I remember I had a friend that had Super Punch Out but I didn't really start to support Little Mac until I went through Punch Out for the Wii in 2009.
 

jaytalks

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Never said I agreed with it, but hey, it's just a theory. A Game Theory.
props for the youtube channel reference.

I played Punch-Out on the NES as a kid. I could never make it past Bald Bull. Got Fight Night Round 2 purely to play Super-Punch Out!! But it was actually a pretty good game. Got Punch-Out in Animal Crossing. Immediately bough both Super-Punch-Out!! and Punch-Out!! for the Wii's VC. Bought the Wii game. Will probably eventually buy Punch-Out for the 3DS. Still looking to beat Mike Tyson Mr. Dream.

One thing that gets me about the Wii game is the stereotypes in it. While relatively harmless in the 80s and 90s due to graphical limitations and what not, they took away from the experience from the Wii game. It also brought Nintendo some unwanted attention at a few sites. Luckily, these stories weren't picked up by too many in the media. But I would avoid having any of the stereotypes in Punch-Out's Smash representation. This includes certain food floating around knocked out characters, and a few other small changes. I would want King Hippo to talk as an assist trophy.

Here are a few articles on the subject:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_184/5649-Punch-Out-s-Black-Eye
http://www.gamesradar.com/fun-with-stereotypes-starring-punch-out/
http://www.toplessrobot.com/2012/02/the_8_most_ethnically_stereotypical_punch-out_char.php
 

Arcadenik

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I don't know what it is but Little Mac fans seem to be a lot more patient than other character supporters and I can't really put my finger on why. Especially with the whole Ridley fiasco going down, I appreciate that this is one of the fan groups that is just quietly waiting this out. Maybe it's because he seems like a lock but I like the fact that nobody gets up in arms or threatens to boycott the game if he (for whatever reason) doesn't make the cut.
I think it has to do with Little Mac becoming more relevant nowadays than he was pre-Brawl. Nintendo is acknowledging Punch-Out!! more often now than they did pre-Brawl. Punch-Out!! got a new Wii game, a WiiWare game (exclusive to Club Nintendo's 2009 Platinum members), a NES re-release on 3DS (the first non-Ambassador NES game I may add) and yet another NES re-release on Wii U (as part of that whole 30 cents anniversary of the Famicom).

In Ridley's case, his role in the Metroid series hasn't changed. He's still a boss... I don't know if I can call him a villain... does Ridley even know that Samus is the same girl whose parents he killed? Nintendo does not even acknowledge Ridley as the main villain of the whole Metroid series like Nintendo does for Bowser (Mario series) and Ganondorf (Zelda series). In the eyes of Nintendo, Ridley is just one of many bosses Samus faces in many of the Metroid games.

Compare Ridley's case to Toad's case... Toad suddenly became relevant to the Mario series when Toads became playable in New Super Mario Bros. Wii and continued to be playable in New Super Mario Bros. U, New Super Luigi U, and especially Super Mario 3D Land (a game that obviously pays homage to Super Mario Bros. 2). This, on top of Toad being the only Nintendo costume to not be playable in Smash yet in Tekken Tag Tournament 2. Toad didn't get this much attention from Nintendo pre-Brawl... Paper Mario, Waluigi, Bowser Jr., and especially Geno are not getting special treatment from Nintendo... Toad is. Paper Mario just got a new game, nothing more. Waluigi continues to reprise his playable role in spin-off games where he is no more or less important than even Mario (everyone are equals). Bowser Jr. is starting to be overshadowed by the Koopalings in the New Super Mario Bros. games... and Geno... who is he again?
 

StupendousMike

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Well, Ridley isn't really the main villain of the Metroid series. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he's been the final boss in any game. He's the most frequently reoccurring villain, and the one Samus has the most personal history with, but he's not really the Bowser/Ganondorf of the series, in a sense.

Sorry, this is off-topic. Back to Mac! I think all three of his taunts should be Doc encouraging him. He pops in really quick and says wonderful Doc-isms.
 

Arcadenik

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I'll admit, I'm 25 but Punch Out wasn't a game I played until 2007 on the Wii's VC. Growing up, I remember I had a friend that had Super Punch Out but I didn't really start to support Little Mac until I went through Punch Out for the Wii in 2009.
I've always supported Little Mac since pre-Melee... I remember playing Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!! at my cousin's house when I was a kid. I didn't really play much since my cousin rarely let me play his NES games and I always watched him play (so I made him watch me play at my house... turnabout is fair play)... so I only got to Von Kaiser at the time. With the Wii and 3DS VC, I have Punch-Out!! and I finally got past Von Kaiser and faced and defeated all the boxers but I always lose at the first match of World Circuit... I still have not faced Mr. Sandman, Super Macho Man, and Mr. Dream...
 

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[collapse=Just a bit of rant on the Ridley matter]Ridley is indeed the true villain of the series, both remembering Samus vividly even on a genetic level (his clone knew/recognized her as well) and having a much more expanded role than any other Metroid antagonist (especially in the manga, where he taunts Samus over the fact he killed her parents). In the games, he's usually usurped by something slightly/situationally bigger/stronger than him, but for the most part he's the one who sets the plot in motion, is the cause for the story to even happen (there'd be no Metroid if Ridley didn't constantly attack Samus), and is the commander of the main antagonistic group in the series (similar to Bowser/the Koopa, Ganondorf/the Moblins, etc.). It's mostly just either coincidence that you fight him earlier than the "true' final boss, or he just so happens to be willingly serving the enforcer role rather than commander. Metroid: Other M even implied Ridley was the biggest (deadpan) threat around, on-par if not more than the titular (deadpan again) Metroids. Not to the same degree, but he got hijacked by Ganondorf in a sense (with Ridley being Zant and the Metroid Queen/MB/Phantoon being Ganon) and thus he didn't come off as the main villain. It could all just be to stay true to the original game where he was one of the 2 guardian/minibosses, rather than the final boss. That doesn't stop him from being the "Bowser/Ganondorf" of the series.

That all said, he technically was the final boss of Zero Mission, even if only in mecha-form. Not that it matters, but I'm not going to pretend I know how Nintendo/the creators of Metroid think, though they do acknowledge Ridley's importance to the series time and time again.

Toad is not even slightly comparable to Ridley, lol. I'll drop it there, though I will say he has his own merits.[/collapse]

I'd suggest taking anything else related to this to the actual Ridley thread. I promise, we don't bite. Much.
 

Fatmanonice

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I've always supported Little Mac since pre-Melee... I remember playing Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!! at my cousin's house when I was a kid. I didn't really play much since my cousin rarely let me play his NES games and I always watched him play (so I made him watch me play at my house... turnabout is fair play)... so I only got to Von Kaiser at the time. With the Wii and 3DS VC, I have Punch-Out!! and I finally got past Von Kaiser and faced and defeated all the boxers but I always lose at the first match of World Circuit... I still have not faced Mr. Sandman, Super Macho Man, and Mr. Dream...
It's about tenacity and trial and error. Once you get down people's patterns, you can reasonably beat them... aside from Mr. Dream/Mike Tyson... I've only been able to beat him after using the cheat that allows you to skip straight to him and even then I can only beat him maybe once every 10 times I go against him. Everybody else is a cakewalk in comparison.
 

shinhed-echi

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I admit I always knew Punch Out, but you know... back in the day it was the equivalent of Fight Night to me. Just a boxing sim. Or at least that's what I thought.

It wasn't until pre-Brawl days when I was investigating StarTropics that I found out that it was made by the very same man/team who made the Punch Out games.

So it was then when I got really curious... Then I saw a thread about Little Mac support, and it grew on me. I played it and loved it! Then I played Super and I loved it too!

By the end of Brawl development, I was a big Punch Out fan. I was CRUSHED when Little Mac became an assist trophy. I hanged on to the hope that SNES Little Mac would be the playable one... but that was nothing but a pipe dream.

Then when the Wii game came out... it was like Nintendo finally stapled Little Mac as part of the all-stars. The only thing left for Little Mac now is a playable spot in SSB.

Punch Out and Little Mac introduced me to the world of boxing (no, I don't practice the sport. I fear I'll end up with brain damage, plus, 27-y-o is not a very good age to start, I think. Or at least not to go pro). Watched Hajime No Ippo entirely, then watched the Rocky movies, and now whenever I can get my dose of boxing, I sit and watch.

In any case... Punch Out is perhaps one of the biggest Nintendo icons. I'm completely calm and confident in Little Mac's inclusion because... seriously.. there's not a single character left that you can actually call a Nintendo ALL-STAR, with so much history as Little Mac. He's pretty much appeared in every single Nintendo generation except on Nintendo 64.

If he ultimately doesn't get in... I wouldn't know what to think. I'd get this game for sure. Not sure if I'd get the next though (but that's partly because I'll be in my middle 30's for SSB5)
 

Tetra's Tracker

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props for the youtube channel reference.

I played Punch-Out on the NES as a kid. I could never make it past Bald Bull. Got Fight Night Round 2 purely to play Super-Punch Out!! But it was actually a pretty good game. Got Punch-Out in Animal Crossing. Immediately bough both Super-Punch-Out!! and Punch-Out!! for the Wii's VC. Bought the Wii game. Will probably eventually buy Punch-Out for the 3DS. Still looking to beat Mike Tyson Mr. Dream.

One thing that gets me about the Wii game is the stereotypes in it. While relatively harmless in the 80s and 90s due to graphical limitations and what not, they took away from the experience from the Wii game. It also brought Nintendo some unwanted attention at a few sites. Luckily, these stories weren't picked up by too many in the media. But I would avoid having any of the stereotypes in Punch-Out's Smash representation. This includes certain food floating around knocked out characters, and a few other small changes. I would want King Hippo to talk as an assist trophy.

Here are a few articles on the subject:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_184/5649-Punch-Out-s-Black-Eye
http://www.gamesradar.com/fun-with-stereotypes-starring-punch-out/
http://www.toplessrobot.com/2012/02/the_8_most_ethnically_stereotypical_punch-out_char.php
People are offended by stereotypes in Punch Out? *Sigh* I really do despair for this PC-crazy modern world. Honestly it really is pathetic. The stereotypes are nothing more than harmless little jokes that have been around for decades. I'd understand if it was something vulgar like a German muttering about hating Jews, an Irishman being a drunken wife-beater or an Arab blowing things up, but there's nothing that approaches that level in Punch Out. How is a Russian performing a famous Russian dance offensive? How is a Canadian liking ice hockey and maple syrup offensive? How is a Japanese person fighting with a Japanese marital art offensive? It isn't, none of it is, if anyone disagrees then they need to chill out and stop taking a colourful, light-hearted, children's video game so seriously. Also, one of the things that makes Punch Out so loved are the characters with their big, hilarious, unique personalities. Without the 'racial stereotypes' those personalities would simply not be there.

Sorry, but the big deal about race everyone makes nowadays and how we can't make a joke that references it in anyway in case someone takes offence, is something that really annoys me.
 

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I personally consider Little Mac and Duck Hunt Dog to be the only retro Nintendo All-Stars (from that time period, the 1980s) not yet in Smash... though I probably would add Takamaru to that list in Japan's behalf as well. This is just my opinion.

I am very confident in Little Mac's and Takamaru's chances of getting in Smash. I am hopeful for Duck Hunt Dog but won't be butthurt to boycott the game if Duck Hunt Dog is not in Smash like certain Ridley supporters.
 

shinhed-echi

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People are offended by stereotypes in Punch Out? *Sigh* I really do despair for this PC-crazy modern world. Honestly it really is pathetic. The stereotypes are nothing more than harmless little jokes that have been around for decades. I'd understand if it was something vulgar like a German muttering about hating Jews, an Irishman being a drunken wife-beater or an Arab blowing things up, but there's nothing that approaches that level in Punch Out. How is a Russian performing a famous Russian dance offensive? How is a Canadian liking ice hockey and maple syrup offensive? How is a Japanese person fighting with a Japanese marital art offensive? It isn't, none of it is, if anyone disagrees then they need to chill out and stop taking a colourful, light-hearted, children's video game so seriously. Also, one of the things that makes Punch Out so loved are the characters with their big, hilarious, unique personalities. Without the 'racial stereotypes' those personalities would simply not be there.

Sorry, but the big deal about race everyone makes nowadays and how we can't make a joke that references it in anyway in case someone takes offence, is something that really annoys me.


I agree!

There's really little to be offended about if the extent of these sterotypes are *LE GASP* Piston Hondo is seeing sushi rolls over his head! Or reading haiku between rounds (though it looks like he's actually reading manga).


Maybe back in the NES days it was a BIT bolder, but as far as the Wii version goes, it just pokes fun at sterotypes in the mildest way possible. :D
I would feel a bit sorry for Irish people to be represented by Aran Ryan... but the dude's a maniac, he's clearly an exception, lol. And he's badass too, perhaps the most unique of all opponents.
 

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People are offended by stereotypes in Punch Out?
Just you watch... in Super Punch-Out!!, the future Wii U sequel... they are gonna turn Mad Clown into a pedophile killer clown like Gacy... and turn Bob Charlie into a weed smoking hip hop gangsta with sagging shorts... and turn Heike Kagero into a fabulous rainbow-waving fairy queen like Ghirahim. :troll:
 

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I would feel a bit sorry for Irish people to be represented by Aran Ryan... but the dude's a maniac, he's clearly an exception, lol. And he's badass too, perhaps the most unique of all opponents.

I'm of Irish decent, but I have no problem with Aran Ryan, personally (even when his last name is actually my first name, haha). I think he's one of the funniest characters in the game.
 

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They may be stereotypes but people get offended when outsiders point them out...
 

jaytalks

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People are offended by stereotypes in Punch Out? *Sigh* I really do despair for this PC-crazy modern world. Honestly it really is pathetic. The stereotypes are nothing more than harmless little jokes that have been around for decades. I'd understand if it was something vulgar like a German muttering about hating Jews, an Irishman being a drunken wife-beater or an Arab blowing things up, but there's nothing that approaches that level in Punch Out. How is a Russian performing a famous Russian dance offensive? How is a Canadian liking ice hockey and maple syrup offensive? How is a Japanese person fighting with a Japanese marital art offensive? It isn't, none of it is, if anyone disagrees then they need to chill out and stop taking a colourful, light-hearted, children's video game so seriously. Also, one of the things that makes Punch Out so loved are the characters with their big, hilarious, unique personalities. Without the 'racial stereotypes' those personalities would simply not be there.

Sorry, but the big deal about race everyone makes nowadays and how we can't make a joke that references it in anyway in case someone takes offence, is something that really annoys me.
While I can't speak for other groups, the problem with any stereotype is that exists on a continuum of media which has continually shown that stereotype. Continually presenting that stereotype, positive or negative, further perpetuates an untruth about all members of a particular group. That's the concern. The fact that it is game for all ages makes it less desirable, because it's presenting an untrue stereotype to a younger age. Companies are free to do whatever they want in games, but that does not make them free from criticism.

It is complete possible to present characters with big, hilarious personalities without resorting to stereotypes, hence Mr. Sandman and Disco Kid (the only original character) from the game. Even if you come from a particular group, it would hard to say how each member of that community will react to that stereotype. Games should always have the biggest audience possible. There shouldn't be any reason that developers can't take into a consideration gamers' concerns towards certain representation. If somehow has a problem with aspects of the characters, it's fair game, just like the game's difficulty and design.

There's a low chance that any of these stereotypes will make into Smash 4, baring an assist trophy or boss fight that goes out of its way, but it's just something I wanted to hear what everyone else thought.
 

greenluigiman2

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Speaking of which, what kinda characters would you want to see in the next Punch-Out?
I have so many ideas for the next Punch-Out. In my opinion the next game should move beyond just fighters from different countries and introduce a variety of new characters. An alien fighter, a robot fighter, a female fighter, an animal. Basically, the WVBA has gone out of control and basically has no dignity anymore (Not that they had any in the first place lol).
 

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Honestly, I think the boxing gloves are a reference to the Boxing Ring that you can own in the AC games. Nothing more.
Similar to the bowling ball being from the ball collector items. It might also be a reference to how without a tool in his hands all he can do is shake trees pretty much so he needed a tool for punching. The only NES reference that is there is balloon fighter and its blatantly obvious. Anyways they don't seem to hurt little mac's chances too much if at all.
 

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Similar to the bowling ball being from the ball collector items. It might also be a reference to how without a tool in his hands all he can do is shake trees pretty much so he needed a tool for punching. The only NES reference that is there is balloon fighter and its blatantly obvious. Anyways they don't seem to hurt little mac's chances too much if at all.
I think that a bowling game was in Animal Crossing (possibly only in the original Japanese one?), right? (a golf game, too, but I didn't see anything in his moveset from that)
 

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I think that a bowling game was in Animal Crossing (possibly only in the original Japanese one?), right? (a golf game, too, but I didn't see anything in his moveset from that)
http://animalcrossing.wikia.com/wiki/NES_Games nope siree no bowling. The bowling ball items are memorable from the game and various balls apear in the gamecube version to kick around but never a bowling ball (go figure.)
 

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Well, Ridley isn't really the main villain of the Metroid series. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he's been the final boss in any game. He's the most frequently reoccurring villain, and the one Samus has the most personal history with, but he's not really the Bowser/Ganondorf of the series, in a sense.

Sorry, this is off-topic. Back to Mac! I think all three of his taunts should be Doc encouraging him. He pops in really quick and says wonderful Doc-isms.
Yeah, by that logic Whispy Woods is 100% confirmed.
 
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