List of Advanced Techniques - Confirmed/Disconfirmed (With sources)

[Mama]

I'm not implying that they're bad, but the classification could affect the chances of it being kept in.

I think the simple solution is to compare them to any other fighting game and their "innovations". I dunno if it was said in this thread or not but most of the tactics and techniques used in games like Street Fighter can be considered exploits or even glitches. The idea of a combo is a glitch not thought of by the devs of street fighter. Using the stun time a landed hit gives to land more attacks was something players discovered.

I think hanging on the edge so that another player dies is something the developers didn't have in mind when they decided to only allow one person on a ledge I think its something that started as a game physics rule and became a tactic.

Wave Dashing might be similar. Something Sakurai sees as an innovation rather than a cheap glitchy exploitation. If he's keeping the core players in mind I don't think he'll take away from things.

 

[Hazhulkhen]

If he's keeping the core players in mind I don't think he'll take away from things.

He seems to be focusing more on bringing in more players to the game (people like grandma and your baby brother), as shown with Nintendo's approach with the Wii...which may mean taking out "cheap" tactics like wavedashing. Just a thought (so don't blast me for not having proof).

 

[Ixninjax]

I think hanging on the edge so that another player dies is something the developers didn't have in mind when they decided to only allow one person on a ledge I think its something that started as a game physics rule and became a tactic.

Actually, you get a bonus for edgehogging.

 

[Hazhulkhen]

FINALLY, a video with an air dodge that lives up to my standard of proof. Every other video shows a character dodging in the same direction they were moving in before. But this video:

http://media.wii.ign.com/media/748/748545/vids_1.html

shows a directional air dodge at 00:42 by Diddy Kong in a direction that he clearly wasn't moving in. Every other video showed circumstantial evidence; this one confirms it without a doubt.

 

[Ban Heim]

Not sure if it's been posted before, but I found a link that says there's no wavedashing in Brawl. Don't know how good this guy actually is, but here's what he said:

No Wavedash, but each character now runs and dodges diffrently. Meta Knight has a move that is similar to wavedash.

The link:
http://www.nsider2.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=22192

EDIT: Also worth mentioning:

Gamers will have the option to turn up the frequency of Smash Balls if they so wish. It is one Final Smash for each Smash Ball though.

 

[Zauron]

Any idea on what Yoshi is doing at 5:39 in the GameSpot interview video ( http://www.gamespot.com/video/92851...os-brawl-nintendo-media-summit-2007-interview )? He does 2 different forward rolls in a row, but they aren't his normal dodge roll (he doesn't have an egg, and a forward dodge roll makes you turn around and face the other way, but in this case he stays facing forward the whole time!). Maybe something to do with crawling? Maybe some new dodge technique altogether?? Could be a big deal...

 

[thesage]

After you do a foward roll in melee, if you do a roll in the same direction you sould do a backroll. This is because when you do a foward roll you turn around.

 

[Johnknight1]

It looks like Roy and Marth's counter, but much diffrent. It looks like much diffrent animation. It could be the down tilt or down smash, or dB. It might not even be a conter. In fact, there is a VERY GOOD CHANCE IT ISN'T.

 

[Zauron]

After you do a foward roll in melee, if you do a roll in the same direction you sould do a backroll. This is because when you do a foward roll you turn around.

Exactly, which is exactly what Yoshi did NOT do. He did some kind of forward roll thing and did NOT turn around, then did a forward roll again with a different animation and also did NOT turn around. And niether time did he go into egg form, even though elsewhere in the video you can clearly see his rolls still put him inside his egg like in Melee.

So what were these forward roll things? The second one had invincibility frames as evidenced by blinking white, not sure on the first. But whatever it wasn't, it wasn't a normal R/L+Forward move.

Also with the latest IGN video, I'm starting to wonder if L-Cancelling really was removed. The few times Bowser landed while doing an airial A attack he got out of it really quick, and if it were Melee I'd say he L-cancelled them. Maybe the guy playing was a pro and knew how to L-Cancel, or maybe L-cancelling really is removed and all air moves just have less lag after them now. "Automatic L-Cancelling" as someone put it...

 

[Kix]

Exactly, which is exactly what Yoshi did NOT do. He did some kind of forward roll thing and did NOT turn around, then did a forward roll again with a different animation and also did NOT turn around. And niether time did he go into egg form, even though elsewhere in the video you can clearly see his rolls still put him inside his egg like in Melee.

So what were these forward roll things? The second one had invincibility frames as evidenced by blinking white, not sure on the first. But whatever it wasn't, it wasn't a normal R/L+Forward move.

Also with the latest IGN video, I'm starting to wonder if L-Cancelling really was removed. The few times Bowser landed while doing an airial A attack he got out of it really quick, and if it were Melee I'd say he L-cancelled them. Maybe the guy playing was a pro and knew how to L-Cancel, or maybe L-cancelling really is removed and all air moves just have less lag after them now. "Automatic L-Cancelling" as someone put it...

I would not be happy with that.

 

[Zauron]

Hmm, still don't know any more about the mystery of the weird Yoshi rolling, but I see even more evidence of L-Cancelling no longer being needed. Not just the CPU now, but in the latest IGN video on shipbattle1, at 0:34, Mario does an UAir that would definitely have to have been L-Cancelled to recover that fast in Melee, and you can tell from the rest of the stuff the guy does that this Mario player is no pro and is very likely to not be L-Cancelling. Maybe L-Cancelling will still make it even faster, but it doesn't look like its going to be needed for many characters with how lag-free the air attack landings have shown to be in these videos so far...

Edit: Another thing noticed in the same video as Yoshi's mysterious rolling thing ( ). At 5:37 Yoshi does his side-B right off the left edge then breaks out of his egg. He goes into a freefall state (blinking dark, meaning he's helpless) and is facing away from the ledge. Yet, even in this freefall state, he suddenly turns and grabs the ledge behind him.

This isn't the same as in Melee, where certain moves like Link's Up+B could still grab ledges when facing away - NO character can grab a ledge while in the blinking free-fall state and facing away from the ledge in Melee, but like the Sonic example shown earlier, it appears that facing the ledge is no longer a requirement to grab it AT ALL in Brawl.

 

[Ban Heim]

This got overlooked (since it was the last post on the previous page) so I'm going to repost it. Let me know what you guys think:

Not sure if it's been posted before, but I found a link that says there's no wavedashing in Brawl. Don't know how good this guy actually is, but here's what he said:

No Wavedash, but each character now runs and dodges diffrently. Meta Knight has a move that is similar to wavedash.

The link:
http://www.nsider2.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=22192

EDIT: Also worth mentioning:

Gamers will have the option to turn up the frequency of Smash Balls if they so wish. It is one Final Smash for each Smash Ball though.

 

[Zauron]

Seems legitimate, but I'll still wait for confirmation from an experienced pro Smasher we know of before saying that Wavedashing is definitely gone. For one thing, none of those who have said its gone have explained what happens instead - do you just stop, do you go into a side roll or spot-dodge automatically, is there a unique landing animation for air-dodging into the ground? A pro could give us the real deal.

 

[Ban Heim]

I agree with you. That's kind of what I'm waiting on also. Until I hear news from pro smashers, I won't really believe anything 100%.

 

[Mama]

This got overlooked (since it was the last post on the previous page) so I'm going to repost it. Let me know what you guys think:

Not sure if it's been posted before, but I found a link that says there's no wavedashing in Brawl. Don't know how good this guy actually is, but here's what he said:



The link:
http://www.nsider2.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=22192

EDIT: Also worth mentioning:

Nsider2.com is the source? Isn't that like the rebirth of the destroyed Nintendo Nsider forums? I wouldn't consider that a source of anything really. Also nobody with significant skill has even played Brawl yet so I'm not going to bite unless I hear something from someone who goes to E4A

 

[Ban Heim]

I'm guessing you didn't click on the link, did you?

NSider2 isn't the source. They just posted it on their forum.

 

[Chepe]

I think I have found another video with evidence of directional air dodging. Whats more, I believe I have spotted Sonic's air dodge!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=F92Vo4cLwnU&mode=related&search=

Youtube version of the Samus vs Sonic and Pit vs Yoshi vids. Anyway, watch the vid closely at 1:22 to 1:24. Samus forward smashes Sonic off, then Sonic double jumps and then flips over and back onto the stage while blinking. I believe his double jump is confirmed to be a ball jump, so this action seems appropriate as an air dodge. It looks pretty cool...

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

It looks like Roy and Marth's counter, but much diffrent. It looks like much diffrent animation. It could be the down tilt or down smash, or dB. It might not even be a conter. In fact, there is a VERY GOOD CHANCE IT ISN'T.

-_-


Um....

That's a collision animation. It occures when two attacks collide.

 

[Mama]

I'm guessing you didn't click on the link, did you?

NSider2 isn't the source. They just posted it on their forum.

The forum was closed when I went there lol. Either way I still don't consider this to be a reliable source. Every person who previewed the game claimed to have some experience but when they played they were simply pathetic. These guys (who seem even less reliable) are probably the same.

Also the guy who posted the so called information was just another poster from Rangerboard.com . He's as good as the newbs on these boards that claim to be from the future or claim they know a guy on the inside.

You shouldn't believe anything like this especially if it originates on a forum. The guy claimed he got to play it at the Nintendo conference in Kyoto and came away with all that info which for the most part is stuff already known to us all and a few things that seem to be guesses based on popular theories.

 

[Samochan]

What's the current status on JC usmash/up B? Glitch, exploit, or implemented tactic?
We know that JC grab is a glitch.

I learned to JC upsmash before I learned about this site or any other advanced tactics. <_> And it was a neccesity even, just think of pika vs peach on hyrule bottom lol, dash attack is not much of a use there.

 

[Radial]

From what I've seen, it looks like you'll be able to ledge grab while facing the wrong direction.

Edit- Another thing I've noticed is that if you block the initial hit of a grounded links Up-B, the following spins don't hit you. Could be a bug. Normally when you do that in ssbm, blocking the spin would kick you out of his spin radius.

Citatation - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWwLsdvBQpQ

Time stamps at 5:09 - 5:13

 

[Emblem Lord]

Radial: You are wrong. That bit about Link's spin is in all SSB games. It's definitely in SSBM.

 

[Dynamism]

No actually, it should push Sonic back when he blocks it. But it doesn't. Sonics just stands there as he spins for the rest. Hopefully it's a bug. I doubt it though, that just nerfed Links UpB a bit.

 

[SonicZeroX]

No actually, it should push Sonic back when he blocks it. But it doesn't. Sonics just stands there as he spins for the rest. Hopefully it's a bug. I doubt it though, that just nerfed Links UpB a bit.

Sonic might have powershielded it

 

[Hazhulkhen]

Also the guy who posted the so called information was just another poster from Rangerboard.com . He's as good as the newbs on these boards that claim to be from the future or claim they know a guy on the inside.

The problem is he (McAster) has 1000+ posts on Rangerboards. I also checked out his pasts posts and he does mention working for jeux-france as well as offering gameplay impressions of other games (corruption, galaxy).

 

[Emblem Lord]

That's meaningless. Most players of any game don't know squat about advanced gameplay mechanics nor are they very good at it regardless of whether or not they are well known for giving gameplay impressions.

 

[Hazhulkhen]

Most players of any game don't know squat about advanced gameplay mechanics nor are they very good at it regardless of whether or not they are well known for giving gameplay impressions.

If that's true, then why did he say wavedashing wasn't in the game? Wouldn't a noob not even know what that is? And if he were aware of the term but didn't understand the concept, I doubt he would've have said it wasn't in the game. The only hole is if he knows about wavedashing but sucks at it (but not being able to do it and saying it's not in has already been established as separate things, as in the case with the IGN person who played).

 

[Andrew Ott]

I don't think we can confirm L-cancelling or wavedashing from the videos. Both of the techniques require vast knowledge of the physics system. We can NOT say, "This move looks L-cancelled," because we have no clue how fast the lag is in brawl. Same between Link's dair in SSB vs SSBM. Wavedashing is the same, for all we know characters could slide 3 char lengths jump by jumping and landing. We at least have to wait for the demo.

 

[Radial]

Sonic might have powershielded it

It actually kinda looks like he did. But he didn't even flinch. I can't think of anything that when powershielded doesn't cause you to get at least pushed back a bit. Other than fox's blaster.

 

[Zauron]

Maybe it has nothing to do with Link's Up+B then. Maybe its yet another change to defense - blocking doesn't force you back when hit any more. Have we seen a case where a move was blocked and the character was pushed back because of it?

 

[FightingGameGuy]

Under your sources you but don't link to the IGN delfino Plaza video with Ike and Pit you refer to in Fast Fall. Nonetheless, excellent work!

/Edit: typo

 

[BDAOutlaw]

Did anybody notice the Waveland backwards into a f-tilt that Mario did with the match between Meta knight, Diddy, Mario, and Yoshi on Castle Siege at 1:00 - 1:01 after Meta does his little tornado. Not sure if already stated but I didn't really read the whole 13 pages sorry if its already mentioned.

 

[Crispy4001]

Did anybody notice the Waveland backwards into a f-tilt that Mario did with the match between Meta knight, Diddy, Mario, and Yoshi on Castle Siege at 1:00 - 1:01 after Meta does his little tornado. Not sure if already stated but I didn't really read the whole 13 pages sorry if its already mentioned.

GREAT FIND! (first time I've seen it at least)

Really, I'm thinking that's good enough for a confirmation. I'm going to try to find another GIF making program that'll let me do it frame by frame (this one's at 10 frames per second).

 

[SonicZeroX]

Looks a little fast to be a wavedash, even if it is running on low fps.

 

[Emblem Lord]

But what else would that be?

 

[SonicZeroX]

But what else would that be?

A glitch? =O lol
I'm not sure actually

 

[BDAOutlaw]

Plus if they stop people from air dodging to close to a jump at least we know we can platform slide or what ever the technical term is for jumping up to a platform and slideing off

 

[Crispy4001]

 

[Zauron]

If it is a waveland, it sure looks different now. I watched it frame-by-frame on the HD version of the video.

He isn't crouched or in an idle while sliding, and he's not sliding back, he's sliding forward then turning around. For most of it he's lying on his back (looking up, with his head to the right and his feet pointing to the left) while sliding on the ground. Then he quickly flips up to his feet while turning around in about 3 frames (like he does at the end of a forward roll) before doing the forward tilt. If that's a waveland, it will look awfully weird doing them by sliding on your back.

 

[Crispy4001]

That GIF is from the HD verison of the video. I copied each frame by hand.


To me it looks like he's sliding on his belly. His head is always to the right end of his body. That turn around you're talking about looks like it's a part of the forward-tilt, not part of the recovery.

That's supported by the gamevideos Mario vs Samus video at 55 seconds in. Mario shows you his back when he forward tilts while facing right.