Meta Link's Metagame Thread (Informative Quotes Can Be Found in the OP)

[DJTHED]

This isn't really that useful. We can't just throw out down air onstage like Cloud can. Cloud's down air auto cancels much quicker than ours and he has better aerial mobility. If we throw out dair from the lower battlefield platforms, it'll give the opponent soooo much time to just step back and charge a f-smash before we even auto cancel our dair as we land when we use that move in neutral like that.

 

[ZSaberLink]

So I was noticing that the 2nd hit of Back Air actually can send enemies into a tumble and be comboed into a Dash Attack at certain percentages. I presume the opponent can DI this to move pretty far away, but given Scizor's Nair -> Dash Attack, I was hoping this might have a bigger percent range it works on due to its lower knockback growth.

 

[Natmax]

So it turns out Shield dropping is pretty easy and we (ok maybe just I) have just been doing it wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryfhRB_xihA

What do people think about uses of this in the link meta? What's the best move to punish with if someone tries to hit you from under the platform, shield-drop nair? I guess it would depend on the amount of lag they are in, but what do you all think are some good options, if it's useful at all?

 

[Deleted member]

Not sure if it's already known or not, but Link's D-air can be autocancelled from a full hop off Battlefield's lower platformsto the main stage, though I don't know the frame leniency. I've been looking more into safe landing with D-air after watching M2K's Cloud make waves at PAX. Of course, it won't be as easy to use as Cloud D-air, but it's something.

Actually, you can always get the right height for Link's Dair to autocancle even without any platforms. First go for a full hop and then around the peek of your height you should go for a rising Dair using your 2nd jump. And if done right you will be able to autocancle it easy. Also, if you for what ever reason manage to bump someone one the head at around 60-80%, you can get a true UpB at them.

 

[JohnKnight416]

I've noticed that Link's Dthrow to Uptilt combo isn't reliable as I thought it was ever since the the 1.0.8 update. They're still currently the same since then. However, they seem have too much Endlag like a lot most of Link's moves. Like I can hardy pull off more than 1 Uptilt string out of Dthrow before my opponent is out of hitstun and is able to jump their way out of the combo. Like This combo setup with Link is less effective than Mario's Dthow to Uptilt combo whereas Mario can keep the opponent in hitstun with his Uptilts more efficiently out of Dthrow.
Also, I find Link's aerials is unable to connect after Dthrow b/c it has too much Knockback around mid percents and he really can't jump high and fast enough in order to touch his opponent in time while they're in hitstun.
These are some examples as to why Link needs better movement and frame data in order to have a better and more reliable combo game that he so necessarily needs

This isn't really that useful. We can't just throw out down air onstage like Cloud can. Cloud's down air auto cancels much quicker than ours and he has better aerial mobility. If we throw out dair from the lower battlefield platforms, it'll give the opponent soooo much time to just step back and charge a f-smash before we even auto cancel our dair as we land when we use that move in neutral like that.

He needs to have a Hitbox when his Dair lands on the ground or anything that will prevent him from getting punish for using his Dair. B/c a lot of his option seem to have a possibilty that he'll most likely get punished for.

Actually, you can always get the right height for Link's Dair to autocancle even without any platforms. First go for a full hop and then around the peek of your height you should go for a rising Dair using your 2nd jump. And if done right you will be able to autocancle it easy. Also, if you for what ever reason manage to bump someone one the head at around 60-80%, you can get a true UpB at them.

Do you know if Link's frame data is enough for him to pull off that sort of setup? Because I find his frame data to be the prime reason as to why he struggles so much in his close combat game on both the ground and in the air.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I've noticed that Link's Dthrow to Uptilt combo isn't reliable now. They seem have too much Endlag like a lot most of Link's moves. Like I can hardy pull off more than 1 Uptilt string out of Dthrow before my opponent is out of hitstun and is able to jump their way out of the combo. Like This combo setup with Link is less effective than Mario's Dthow to Uptilt combo whereas Mario can keep the opponent in hitstun with his Uptilts more efficiently out of Dthrow.
Also, I find Link's aerials is unable to connect after Dthrow b/c it has too much Knockback around mid percents and he really can't jump high and fast enough in order to touch his opponent in time while they're in hitstun.
These are some examples as to why Link needs better movement and frame data in order to have a better and more reliable combo game that he so necessarily needs

I just re-tested my previous results (http://smashboards.com/threads/link...-found-in-the-op.379659/page-35#post-20457552) on Mario, i.e. the character I went to extra lengths for back when I was still filled with hope and ambition, and the D-throw follow-ups work exactly the same now as they did before.

Don't scare me like that.

(And don't double post.)

 

[ZSaberLink]

I just re-tested my previous results (http://smashboards.com/threads/link...-found-in-the-op.379659/page-35#post-20457552) on Mario, i.e. the character I went to extra lengths for back when I was still filled with hope and ambition, and the D-throw follow-ups work exactly the same now as they did before.

Don't scare me like that.

(And don't double post.)

Phew. Good to hear.

 

[JohnKnight416]

I just re-tested my previous results (http://smashboards.com/threads/link...-found-in-the-op.379659/page-35#post-20457552) on Mario, i.e. the character I went to extra lengths for back when I was still filled with hope and ambition, and the D-throw follow-ups work exactly the same now as they did before.

Don't scare me like that.

(And don't double post.)

My point is that Link's follow ups out of Dthrow options are unreliable as far as I know and that I was using Mario's Uptilt follow up option out of Dthrow as an example for comparison. It's a reason as to why I think that characters who lack reliable combo options need to be given buffs immediately to make this game more balanced. I don't know exactly what changes were truly made with the majority of the characters, including my mains and secondaries as I haven't tested them in the new update for myself just yet. But I'm not too thrill by the looks of it so far. Like I'm seeing a huge lack of change with a majority of the characters, especially with those that I really consider needing buffs.

By the way, I apologize if I did happen to double post. I'm still trying to get use to this website.

Phew. Good to hear.

Dthrows combos are still the same as we know it if that was what you were afraid of. Sorry for making you misunderstand with what I was saying.

 

[Catana]

JohnKnight416

(And don't double post.)

listen you ****ing dumb weaboo kid

 

[Stryker95]

My point is that Link's follow ups out of Dthrow options are unreliable as far as I know and that I was using Mario's Uptilt follow up option out of Dthrow as an example for comparison. It's a reason as to why I think that characters who lack reliable combo options need to be given buffs immediately to make this game more balanced. I don't know exactly what changes were truly made with the majority of the characters, including my mains and secondaries as I haven't tested them in the new update for myself just yet. But I'm not too thrill by the looks of it so far. Like I'm seeing a huge lack of change with a majority of the characters, especially with those that I really consider needing buffs.

By the way, I apologize if I did happen to double post. I'm still trying to get use to this website.

A tip: We don't discuss if we think Link needs a buff here. It isn't like Sakuri checks our threads so it does no one any good but makes people sound whiny.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

My point is that Link's follow ups out of Dthrow options are unreliable as far as I know and that I was using Mario's Uptilt follow up option out of Dthrow as an example for comparison. It's a reason as to why I think that characters who lack reliable combo options need to be given buffs immediately to make this game more balanced. I don't know exactly what changes were truly made with the majority of the characters, including my mains and secondaries as I haven't tested them in the new update for myself just yet. But I'm not too thrill by the looks of it so far. Like I'm seeing a huge lack of change with a majority of the characters, especially with those that I really consider needing buffs.

By the way, I apologize if I did happen to double post. I'm still trying to get use to this website.

You can't get more 'reliable' than literally guaranteed, which is what the post I linked you to lists, i.e. guaranteed d-throw follow-up combos.

And please, read your PM's. Click on the small yellow box area with the image of a letter on it. If you don't understand what a double post is, I'd be happy to explain it to you.

 

[Deleted member]

[/QUOTE]Do you know if Link's frame data is enough for him to pull off that sort of setup? Because I find his frame data to be the prime reason as to why he struggles so much in his close combat game on both the ground and in the air.[/QUOTE]

All I know is that I enjoy using the Dair Autocancel a lot, it's fun. Also yes, his sword does stab the ground just before it cancels out meaning that the hitbox is out all the way down. Not too many uses for it though. As I said before, you can get an UpB followup if you boop the enemy on the head at around 80%. And as I didn't mention, you can use it on a player who don't know of it or who is not thinking strait, then they'll try and punish it and you already know the rest. Or so I would assume. Though unless you are going in hard and goes for a rising Dair when already mid air from an attack and timing it well with the hight... it's really easy to read.

 

[ZSaberLink]

Does anyone have thoughts on Link's walk? I remember some commentators mentioning how you can perform any action out of a walk compared to a dash. Considering Link's walk is one of the better (top half) walks in the game, Link's shield stays up while he walks, and it's not THAT much slower than his run, is this something we can use in certain situations? I've only really used it when enemies are trying to spam, but I'm sure there's more to it.

 

[JohnKnight416]

A tip: We don't discuss if we think Link needs a buff here. It isn't like Sakuri checks our threads so it does no one any good but makes people sound whiny.

I hate to sound as if I'm complaining too much about it, though it's truly a factor that I have to struggle with a bunch of times which definitely hurts my passion towards playing my favorite main in Super Smash Bros.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I'm sure some of you are wondering when I'll get the D-throw follow-up data for the new characters. The answer is 'soon'.

For now though, and perhaps much more importantly, there were a few characters who had their weight changed in the recent patch, so I had to find out what effect if any this had on our D-throw follow-ups against them.
I've tested them all and made the appropriate changes to the post (linked earlier), but I've yet to update the OP with the current post, so you can feel free to compare them to note the differences if you wish.

The tl;dr version is as follows:
ZSS and Sonic had no changes that I was able to discover.
There is a slight change for Ganon, giving him extra DI options to avoid some follow-ups that were already avoidable. Negligible change, so the rating stayed the same.
Rosalina is able to avoid follow-ups that were previously guaranteed at low to low-medium percents, i.e. U-smash and FH Nair. As such her rating went from 3/5 to 2.5/5.
The follow-ups we had on Sheik have a larger window now, i.e. U-tilt and U-smash working from a lower percent than before, and FH Uair is much more viable as an option with Sheik being required to DI away in order to avoid it now. The rating got an upgrade from 2.5/5 to 3/5.
Kirby gets wrecked even worse than before. Was 4.5/5, is now 5/5. Poor Kirby.

 

[ZSaberLink]

I'm sure some of you are wondering when I'll get the D-throw follow-up data for the new characters. The answer is 'soon'.

For now though, and perhaps much more importantly, there were a few characters who had their weight changed in the recent patch, so I had to find out what effect if any this had on our D-throw follow-ups against them.
I've tested them all and made the appropriate changes to the post (linked earlier), but I've yet to update the OP with the current post, so you can feel free to compare them to note the differences if you wish.

The tl;dr version is as follows:
ZSS and Sonic had no changes that I was able to discover.
There is a slight change for Ganon, giving him extra DI options to avoid some follow-ups that were already avoidable. Negligible change, so the rating stayed the same.
Rosalina is able to avoid follow-ups that were previously guaranteed at low to low-medium percents, i.e. U-smash and FH Nair. As such her rating went from 3/5 to 2.5/5.
The follow-ups we had on Sheik have a larger window now, i.e. U-tilt and U-smash working from a lower percent than before, and FH Uair is much more viable as an option with Sheik being required to DI away in order to avoid it now. The rating got an upgrade from 2.5/5 to 3/5.
Kirby gets wrecked even worse than before. Was 4.5/5, is now 5/5. Poor Kirby.

Thanks for the work as always!

 

[Jterr]

People are using ledgehop zair to grab right? That works pretty well, since Link's tether grab range is huge, and zair doesn't have that much lag

 

[ZSaberLink]

People are using ledgehop zair to grab right? That works pretty well, since Link's tether grab range is huge, and zair doesn't have that much lag

These days I think more people are going for ledgehop Fair instead. Each hit actually gives you a frame advantage if they have to drop shield, and if it hits the opponent, it could even kill them at higher percents.

 

[Dumbfire]

People are using ledgehop zair to grab right? That works pretty well, since Link's tether grab range is huge, and zair doesn't have that much lag

Zair has 8 frames landing lag, enough for the opponent to grab out of shield if you land in front of him easy and for him to turn-around grab when you land behind him, unless you spotdodge, which is naturally fairly high-commitment (and many characters can still hit Link after he spotdodges their grab with jabs for instance because his options are so slow). What it covers is an opponent standing roll distance from the ledge, as a surprise option -- not that much more. Ledgehops are always dangerous this game because if you get hit your jump may be gone.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

D-throw follow-ups against Corrin and Bayonetta have been added.

Edit: Minor edit made to Bayonetta at 0%.

 

[Jterr]

These days I think more people are going for ledgehop Fair instead. Each hit actually gives you a frame advantage if they have to drop shield, and if it hits the opponent, it could even kill them at higher percents.

yeah ledgehop fair also works

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

So, this applies to Link. http://smashboards.com/threads/mechanics-techniques-discussion.368206/page-69#post-20874193

It works for the edge of platforms as well. From my initial testing it seems that hitstun is not affected, just knockback.

But basically, if Link grabs someone and is right up against the edge of the stage or the edge of a platform facing inwards (with his back to the edge) and you D-throw them, they will not get hit as far. This allows you to get follow-ups that were previously not possible. As a general rule, you can safely extend everything already listed by anything between, say, 10 to 20%. (It varies, greatly...)

 

[Dark_Link05]

Wow. That guy was way too cheery for the dark link moniker.

Any news on if this affects certain characters more than others? what about with the new, glitchy characters? Do we have any infinite grabs at ledge with them?

 

[Rizen]

I watched some games with Abadango's Pac Man (@ 14:45 )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk_qVyv5TPY
He constantly has active hit boxes screwing the opponent's spacing. It rekindled the idea (not that this is new) for Link to constantly have bombs out; bomb planting throwing bombs up in addition to holding one and the other projectiles. I've seen other Links and myself neglect stage control. We really need to be sweating bombs whenever safe.

 

[Natmax]

I have a question about jab-cancel. On the second or third jab I get, I like to cancel and do nothing just to check what the opponents reaction is. If they jump, I try to hit them with fair the next time, if they shield grab, but if they roll backwards, I'm not sure what is optimal. Is a dash grab the best you can do? You could probably hit a rang or an arrow but it wouldn't be as good, maybe a dash attack? Does anyone here have something better to do in this scenario?

 

[JohnKnight416]

I've posted a Youtube video of a previous online match of me playing as Link on For Glory and I noticed something peculiar with Link's Dair as I was watching it through myself. At a certain point of the video, I got a spike off of Link's Dair and I noticed that it did 19% damage instead of the usual 18% damage. Does this mean that there was possibly a secret buff to Link's Dair in which we didn't know about? Please see it for yourself by watching through my video from my channel and tell me about what you think about my analyses on this discovery.

The link to the video is shown below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l23VaA_7kQ

 

[Deleted member]

I've posted a Youtube video of a previous online match of me playing as Link on For Glory and I noticed something peculiar with Link's Dair as I was watching it through myself. At a certain point of the video, I got a spike off of Link's Dair and I noticed that it did 19% damage instead of the usual 18% damage. Does this mean that there was possibly a secret buff to Link's Dair in which we didn't know about? Please see it for yourself by watching through my video from my channel and tell me about what you think about my analyses on this discovery.

The link to the video is shown below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l23VaA_7kQ

First I like to adress that the spike frames on Links Dair does not do 18%, they do 15%. Then after the spike frames the Dair has a sweet spot that does 18% but no spike, and then the regular no spike 15%. So what happened here is you hit Shulk with a 15% spike, and as Shulk was in Jump monado which means the damage increases by X * 1.22. So 15 * 1.22 = 18.3. Hope that answers it.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I heard that people were having difficulty with the quick tether trump:

Pretty nice setup for the Tether Trump. http://smashboards.com/threads/tether-ledge-trump.429128/
I tested it and this quick version works for Link too, it's just difficult.

Edit: To be specific, Link needs to SH backwards off-stage from the very edge (RAR) and input tether anywhere between frame 3 to 7 of your airborne frames. Any earlier or later and you'll get a Zair. So you know, it's a 4 frame window. Definitely do-able with a bit of practice. And the pay-off! Well worth practicing imo. It's admittedly more telegraphed than a normal trump, so mix-it up and incorporate tether-trump to ledge get-up.

I'll do my best to explain how it's performed more clearly.
For now, just roll to the edge to set it up so that your back is to the edge.
You want to input a SH. It must be a SH. If you FH instead it is impossible to tether the edge.
You want to immediately hit and hold backwards on the joystick during the jump-squat frames. Continue holding backwards at least until you see the tether turn into a tether.
Then it's just a matter of timing the tether input. The above quoted number of airborne frames, while entirely accurate, obviously doesn't mean anything to most people, so instead try to think of it this way: Try to hit tether when Link is almost half-way up to the peak of his SH. If necessary do a quick SH on the spot first to roughly gauge the timing.
And, it should work. I don't know what else to say. Once you can definitely tether with some consistency, only then should you start thinking, I want to try running towards the edge then doing a RAR to start it off, or, I want to immediately reel in the tether. Make no mistake, it will require practice even once you understand what you're supposed to do, but hopefully this will help people understand what they're supposed to do.

 

[JohnKnight416]

First I like to adress that the spike frames on Links Dair does not do 18%, they do 15%. Then after the spike frames the Dair has a sweet spot that does 18% but no spike, and then the regular no spike 15%. So what happened here is you hit Shulk with a 15% spike, and as Shulk was in Jump monado which means the damage increases by X * 1.22. So 15 * 1.22 = 18.3. Hope that answers it.

I know that Link's Dair does around 18-15% damage on the first hit. But when first I saw Shulk's percentage rising from 76 to 95% from the spike of the Dair, I was completely surprised to see that there was a 1% more difference in the damage. But since you stated that Shulk's Jump Mode increases the amount of damage that Shulk takes by X * 1.22, then I guess that it'll make sense as to why Link's Dair did slightly more damage than usual. I honestly forgot about what the drawbacks were for Shulk's Monado arts, so thank you for answering my question.
Btw, do you like the video? If so, then how do you feel about watching the rest of my videos on my Youtube channel? Note that I'll be uploading new videos from time to time and that I'll really appreciate having more subscribers to support me as a Youtuber.

 

[Deleted member]

I heard that people were having difficulty with the quick tether trump:

I'll do my best to explain how it's performed more clearly.
For now, just roll to the edge to set it up so that your back is to the edge.
You want to input a SH. It must be a SH. If you FH instead it is impossible to tether the edge.
You want to immediately hit and hold backwards on the joystick during the jump-squat frames. Continue holding backwards at least until you see the tether turn into a tether.
Then it's just a matter of timing the tether input. The above quoted number of airborne frames, while entirely accurate, obviously doesn't mean anything to most people, so instead try to think of it this way: Try to hit tether when Link is almost half-way up to the peak of his SH. If necessary do a quick SH on the spot first to roughly gauge the timing.
And, it should work. I don't know what else to say. Once you can definitely tether with some consistency, only then should you start thinking, I want to try running towards the edge then doing a RAR to start it off, or, I want to immediately reel in the tether. Make no mistake, it will require practice even once you understand what you're supposed to do, but hopefully this will help people understand what they're supposed to do.

Hold on, this means we can hold shield on ledge to absorb any hitboxes and then Zair trump them directly afterwards... This means that a lot of characters should be dead the instant they get of stage because if they go for ledge they get spiked and if they land on stage they'll get smashed of stage again. Wow... now that is a sweet and easy way to end stocks.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Hold on, this means we can hold shield on ledge to absorb any hitboxes and then Zair trump them directly afterwards... This means that a lot of characters should be dead the instant they get of stage because if they go for ledge they get spiked and if they land on stage they'll get smashed of stage again. Wow... now that is a sweet and easy way to end stocks.

Well if you're talking about standing with your back to the edge with your shield up, taking an attack on shield then jumping backwards and doing the quick tether trump, this is problematic due to the shield push you'd get. You need to be right up against the edge before you jump backwards in order for the tether to work. Power-shielding negates shield-push though if you were keen on the idea.

 

[Deleted member]

Well if you're talking about standing with your back to the edge with your shield up, taking an attack on shield then jumping backwards and doing the quick tether trump, this is problematic due to the shield push you'd get. You need to be right up against the edge before you jump backwards in order for the tether to work. Power-shielding negates shield-push though if you were keen on the idea.

Yeah :/ Forgot about the shield push. But, is it know why this works? If I would have to guess it has something to do with you moving upwards from the short hop in some way, because if you press Z-air after you are going up it won't work even if you are in the position for it. But if you have an actual answer I would love to know.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Yeah :/ Forgot about the shield push. But, is it know why this works? If I would have to guess it has something to do with you moving upwards from the short hop in some way, because if you press Z-air after you are going up it won't work even if you are in the position for it. But if you have an actual answer I would love to know.

Oh well it's perfectly simple. The tether has a specific area of effect. Each tether character has their own differently shaped/sized area, and Link's is just sort of restricted in comparison. When you SH backwards off the edge, the first couple of airborne frames will be out of that area because you'll still be too close to the stage; then the following frames (3 to 7) puts you into the correct area allowing Zair to turn into a tether; and finally the frames after that as Link continues to rise in his SH puts him out of the area again, being too high up this time. If you could visualise the tether area bubble of effect, it would look sort of like a rectangle with curved edges or an elongated oval.

 

[ZSaberLink]

Not sure how useful this is, but saw this video earlier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjUNsPHZxkk.

Also, was labbing DTilt and realized if the opponent DIs away, there doesn't seem to be much the Link can do that's guaranteed afterwards.... With no DI or DI towards Link, Fair works for the lower %s and both Fair & UAir work for mid %s, and UAir works for higher percents.

Also for fun, I found that Link's UThrow kills Bowser on the top platform of Dreamland at around 138% (no DI). It kills Jiggly at around 102% (no DI). On the other hand, Link's Fully charged USmash can kill Jigglypuff at like 30% xD.


Fox Is Openly Deceptive
Also any thoughts on talking about Link's frame traps/mixups to get the hit on the opponent if that makes sense? Obviously these are likely not guaranteed, but can catch folks off guard if they react in a certain manner.

A very simple example:
Link Action. Link throws bomb at opponent in close quarters
Opponent Response. Opponent chooses to shield
Link Response Option -> Link grabs shielded opponent

Another example:
Link Action: Link DThrow -> UTilt opponent @ lower %s
Opponent Response: Opponent chooses to Air Dodge to avoid followup.
Link Response Option -> Use USmash to catch the Air Dodge.

 

[JohnKnight416]

Not sure how useful this is, but saw this video earlier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjUNsPHZxkk.

Also, was labbing DTilt and realized if the opponent DIs away, there doesn't seem to be much the Link can do that's guaranteed afterwards.... With no DI or DI towards Link, Fair works for the lower %s and both Fair & UAir work for mid %s, and UAir works for higher percents.

Also for fun, I found that Link's UThrow kills Bowser on the top platform of Dreamland at around 138% (no DI). It kills Jiggly at around 102% (no DI). On the other hand, Link's Fully charged USmash can kill Jigglypuff at like 30% xD.


Fox Is Openly Deceptive
Also any thoughts on talking about Link's frame traps/mixups to get the hit on the opponent if that makes sense? Obviously these are likely not guaranteed, but can catch folks off guard if they react in a certain manner.

A very simple example:
Link Action. Link throws bomb at opponent in close quarters
Opponent Response. Opponent chooses to shield
Link Response Option -> Link grabs shielded opponent

Another example:
Link Action: Link DThrow -> UTilt opponent @ lower %s
Opponent Response: Opponent chooses to Air Dodge to avoid followup.
Link Response Option -> Use USmash to catch the Air Dodge.

I saw this video before myself. And in my opinion, this can be helpful in mind games just to mess with the opponent's head

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Not sure how useful this is, but saw this video earlier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjUNsPHZxkk.

Also, was labbing DTilt and realized if the opponent DIs away, there doesn't seem to be much the Link can do that's guaranteed afterwards.... With no DI or DI towards Link, Fair works for the lower %s and both Fair & UAir work for mid %s, and UAir works for higher percents.

Also for fun, I found that Link's UThrow kills Bowser on the top platform of Dreamland at around 138% (no DI). It kills Jiggly at around 102% (no DI). On the other hand, Link's Fully charged USmash can kill Jigglypuff at like 30% xD.


Fox Is Openly Deceptive
Also any thoughts on talking about Link's frame traps/mixups to get the hit on the opponent if that makes sense? Obviously these are likely not guaranteed, but can catch folks off guard if they react in a certain manner.

A very simple example:
Link Action. Link throws bomb at opponent in close quarters
Opponent Response. Opponent chooses to shield
Link Response Option -> Link grabs shielded opponent

Another example:
Link Action: Link DThrow -> UTilt opponent @ lower %s
Opponent Response: Opponent chooses to Air Dodge to avoid followup.
Link Response Option -> Use USmash to catch the Air Dodge.

I only just saw the edited part now. Note that tagging people only works for when you initially make the post; if you edit it in later, the tagged user doesn't get the notification. -crashboards.

But sure, you can feel free to discuss such things, so long as the focus is on taking note of the options the opponent takes and adapting to the situation next time with either an option that covers multiple options including the one they took last time or an optimal punish, preferably one that won't get you punished if you read them incorrectly.
Or in other words, keep it realistic, not too theory-craft laden.

Oh and as for the tether thing, I didn't think it needed to be said at the time, but yeah, it's already known and it's useless.

 

[ExplosiveChaos]

When I see Link players play in tournaments, I see a lot of up throw bomb slides. Is there any reason for this? Wouldn't it be better to throw it forward to the enemy so that the enemy has to avoid a hitbox?

 

[Deleted member]

When I see Link players play in tournaments, I see a lot of up throw bomb slides. Is there any reason for this? Wouldn't it be better to throw it forward to the enemy so that the enemy has to avoid a hitbox?

Up throw bomb slide allows link to move in or out really fast, and because the up throw it self has somewhat low ending lag it's pretty safe as you can shield and attack or even grab depending on situation. Also it looks really cool and is just over all fun to do

Also over all the up throw bomb slide is probably the over all easiest to do, so there's also that.

Speaking of bombslides. I've been thinking if I should go for Forward throw bomb slides or up throw fake out bomb slides when looking for a confirm or just to get in. Forward throw does allow me to slide further but the up throw fake out allows me to act sooner as it's a faster move. Any inputs on this?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Up throw bomb slide allows link to move in or out really fast, and because the up throw it self has somewhat low ending lag it's pretty safe as you can shield and attack or even grab depending on situation. Also it looks really cool and is just over all fun to do

Also over all the up throw bomb slide is probably the over all easiest to do, so there's also that.

Speaking of bombslides. I've been thinking if I should go for Forward throw bomb slides or up throw fake out bomb slides when looking for a confirm or just to get in. Forward throw does allow me to slide further but the up throw fake out allows me to act sooner as it's a faster move. Any inputs on this?

Actually, down-throw fake outs are faster. Don't go spreading misinformation about Up-throw. I wrote a post about it at some point, which is probably in the OP somewhere, or you can just check out the individual bombslide write-ups in the AT thread which go into detail about this sort of thing.

As for why people Bombslide Up-throw, it depends. But it has nothing to do with speed. If the opponent is right in front of them, either they expected them to shield and figured that bomb on shield is just a waste of time in most scenarios, or they didn't know it was a bad option as an approach, or it was an input error, or they haven't read my AT thread and so don't know how to do anything else. If the opponent is anywhere else, it's a potential trap when the bomb comes back down, albeit a bad one, but that's often enough to deter people from approaching because people are dumb.

 

[Deleted member]

Actually, down-throw fake outs are faster. Don't go spreading misinformation about Up-throw. I wrote a post about it at some point, which is probably in the OP somewhere, or you can just check out the individual bombslide write-ups in the AT thread which go into detail about this sort of thing.

As for why people Bombslide Up-throw, it depends. But it has nothing to do with speed. If the opponent is right in front of them, either they expected them to shield and figured that bomb on shield is just a waste of time in most scenarios, or they didn't know it was a bad option as an approach, or it was an input error, or they haven't read my AT thread and so don't know how to do anything else. If the opponent is anywhere else, it's a potential trap when the bomb comes back down, albeit a bad one, but that's often enough to deter people from approaching because people are dumb.

Sure, Dthrow is faster but it's also a hell lot harder to pull of (for me anyways). To the point that it's not worth going for most of the time. And if the speedy movement we gained from the bomb slides are not what we are interested in then I really don't see any use in it other then just showing off. To me Bombslides is in the category of movement tech, it's a way to simply move around. And due to the speed and the fact that you can have a bomb flying in the direction of your opponents face you can get some cool confirms or force them to use a defensive move and then try and go for a punish.

If I want to use my bombs for pressure then I would say that bomb slides are not that good of an option. Just use soft tosses or smash tosses or just jump around and throw it from the air. If not for the speed bombslides would be useless which is why Toon Link players don't use them even though he can do the same trick, as you probably know... he doesn't go anywhere using it.

Of course you can do things like bomb slide fake out or forward throw into projectiles to use the bomb as a shield, but that's still movement tech. So you really have to explain what you mean when you say that bomb slides aren't about the speed.