Meta Link's Metagame Thread (Informative Quotes Can Be Found in the OP)

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

True, Link's attack options for close quarters aren't really that great, however, that doesn't mean that they aren't bad either. I mean despite the fact that a lot of Link's moves, such as his Smash Attacks & Tilts, have some Lag to them, they all do a decent amount a damage and also have good kill power.
Link's Ftilt, for example, is a good kill move at high percents from around 120% on characters in general. The drawback to this move is that it has a considerate amount of Start-up Lag. But with good timing and precision, you can get this Ftilt to land on the opponent and get possibly get a KO. This is moves becomes move efficient when combined with Perfect Pivoting as Link is able to use his Ftilt to punish his opponent during situations in which the opponent chooses to roll behind him.
And due to the fact that Perfect Pivoting is easier to pull of with Bidou Tech, as stated in the video, you can have a better time at punishing and killing your opponents with Link's Ftilt.
This sort option for Link may even be better than just simply using his Dash Attack for approaching his opponents. Despite the fact that Link's dash attack is also another one of his many kill moves, it does come out significantly slower than Link's Ftilt.
This is one of the many possibilities that Link can potentially perform with Biduo Tech in which I can think of. In my perspective, I think that this Technique can benefit Link in many different way such as strengthening his options to perform mindgames his opponents.
Of course, this will all depend on a player's choice of playstyle as Biduo Tech does require you to reconfigure with the setup of your controller, and at the same time, it takes away some of Link's abilities to perform some his own techniques.

I don't remember saying anything about 'Link's attack options for close quarters'. I'll consider this merely as proof that you didn't read my post properly, which would explain a lot.
You know what also works for F-tilt? Simply walking then using it, or dashing/running then pivoting it. So tell me, why exactly would I bother with a perfect pivot to get a worse result in the case of dashing/running then pivoting, or a very similar result in the case of simply walking (keeping in mind that Link's walk speed is more comparable to his run speed than most characters)?
I almost get the feeling that you haven't actually tried it with Link yet, otherwise my previous post couldn't possibly have failed to convince you. Have you seen the length of Link's PP? Have you compared it to the likes of Fox or pretty much everyone that used it in the video? You are of course free to do what you like though, just so long as you don't lead others down the wrong path in the process.

 

[Dumbfire]

lol link's PP is just trash, every idiot can flick his thumb but there's a reason we ain't applyin it, it isn't useful, elessar said this the day PP was discovered and he wasn't wrong...

 

[JohnKnight416]

I don't remember saying anything about 'Link's attack options for close quarters'. I'll consider this merely as proof that you didn't read my post properly, which would explain a lot.
You know what also works for F-tilt? Simply walking then using it, or dashing/running then pivoting it. So tell me, why exactly would I bother with a perfect pivot to get a worse result in the case of dashing/running then pivoting, or a very similar result in the case of simply walking (keeping in mind that Link's walk speed is more comparable to his run speed than most characters)?
I almost get the feeling that you haven't actually tried it with Link yet, otherwise my previous post couldn't possibly have failed to convince you. Have you seen the length of Link's PP? Have you compared it to the likes of Fox or pretty much everyone that used it in the video? You are of course free to do what you like though, just so long as you don't lead others down the wrong path in the process.

True, I haven't really used this Biduo technique myself with Link just yet and was only stating my thoughts and ideas based on what I saw on the video. As for Link's PP, the most that I was able to perform out of pivoting was either an Ftilt, Fsmash, or SideB. And thinking back to Link's PP itself, it actually isn't really the best overall since there aren't any fast moves that Link can perform from it.

 

[DarkDeity15]

The Dtilt to Uair kill percentages will need to be edited, I'll work on that as soon as I get home.

Both hits of Fair > Grab, Dthrow > Usmash is a pretty nice low % combo that does 45%+ depending on what Usmash does. It's a nice way to start off the match/stock. 0-10% is around the range I think it would be at it's truest. Doesn't really work well on short characters like Jiggs and Ness though.

 

[JohnKnight416]

The Dtilt to Uair kill percentages will need to be edited, I'll work on that as soon as I get home.

Both hits of Fair > Grab, Dthrow > Usmash is a pretty nice low % combo that does 45%+ depending on what Usmash does. It's a nice way to start off the match/stock. 0-10% is around the range I think it would be at it's truest.

I've used most of these combos before with Link, and I can tell you what my analysis are on them.

Dtilt > Fair is True Combo on pretty much any character at Low Percentages that does a total of about 36% Damage.

I can also confirm that Dthrow > Uptilt or Upsmash is mostly a True Combo against Fast Fallers, such as Sheik, at Low Percentages. However it isn’t a True Combo against Non-Fast Falling characters. As far as I can tell, some of these characters can easily escape this combo by jumping their way out of it since Link’s Dthrow > Uptilt or Upsmash has too much Lag and not enough Hitstun in between to be considered a True Combo. I personally wish for the Dthrow, Uptilt, and Upsmash to be Buff and make them all have less End Lag since this partially reliable Combo for Link is mostly a 50-50 case in terms of his chances of him landing all of the hits in certain MU’s.

As for Dtilt > Upair, I’ve found it to be a True Combo at Higher Percentages. However, I mainly discovered this on Ike, who is a Heavy Weight character, at around 118%. So therefore, this combo for Link in particular may vary depending on character weight.

 

[Stryker95]

I've used most of these combos before with Link, and I can tell you what my analysis are on them.

Dtilt > Fair is True Combo on pretty much any character at Low Percentages that does a total of about 36% Damage.

I can also confirm that Dthrow > Uptilt or Upsmash is mostly a True Combo against Fast Fallers, such as Sheik, at Low Percentages. However it isn’t a True Combo against Non-Fast Falling characters. As far as I can tell, some of these characters can easily escape this combo by jumping their way out of it since Link’s Dthrow > Uptilt or Upsmash has too much Lag and not enough Hitstun in between to be considered a True Combo. I personally wish for the Dthrow, Uptilt, and Upsmash to be Buff and make them all have less End Lag since this partially reliable Combo for Link is mostly a 50-50 case in terms of his chances of him landing all of the hits in certain MU’s.

As for Dtilt > Upair, I’ve found it to be a True Combo at Higher Percentages. However, I mainly discovered this on Ike, who is a Heavy Weight character, at around 118%. So therefore, this combo for Link in particular may vary depending on character weight.

Please define what you see as a True Combo. From my testing, Ike can airdodge or jump out of the D-Tilt>Upair at 118% and out of the D-Tilt> Fair at 0%, 10%, 20%, and 30%.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Fox Is Openly Deceptive
Here is the updated data for Dtilt > Uair kill %s.

Center of Battlefield:
Kirby: 84%, very difficult/not a combo
Sheik: 86%, easy
Cloud: 105% Limit: 113%, easy
Bayonetta: 95%, easy
Corrin: 101%, very easy
Bowser: 113%, hard
Samus: 102%
Mii Brawler:
Mii Sword Fighter:
Mii Gunner:

Top platform of Battlefield:
Kirby: 65%, not a combo
Sheik: 70%
Cloud: 84% Limit: 90%, easy
Bayonetta: 75%, easy
Corrin: 82%, very easy
Bowser: 91%, very difficult/not a combo
Samus: 81%, easy
Mii Brawler:
Mii Sword Fighter:
Mii Gunner:

How should I go about it with the Miis? Smallest only or..?

If I'm missing anything besides the other DLC characters (which I don't have) and DI (I don't have a lab partner or the time, maybe later) let me know plz.

 

[ZSaberLink]

I've used most of these combos before with Link, and I can tell you what my analysis are on them.

Dtilt > Fair is True Combo on pretty much any character at Low Percentages that does a total of about 36% Damage.

I can also confirm that Dthrow > Uptilt or Upsmash is mostly a True Combo against Fast Fallers, such as Sheik, at Low Percentages. However it isn’t a True Combo against Non-Fast Falling characters. As far as I can tell, some of these characters can easily escape this combo by jumping their way out of it since Link’s Dthrow > Uptilt or Upsmash has too much Lag and not enough Hitstun in between to be considered a True Combo. I personally wish for the Dthrow, Uptilt, and Upsmash to be Buff and make them all have less End Lag since this partially reliable Combo for Link is mostly a 50-50 case in terms of his chances of him landing all of the hits in certain MU’s.

As for Dtilt > Upair, I’ve found it to be a True Combo at Higher Percentages. However, I mainly discovered this on Ike, who is a Heavy Weight character, at around 118%. So therefore, this combo for Link in particular may vary depending on character weight.

Fox already has a nice post about DThrow followups to frame accuracy basically, so I don't think we need too much more research there. Continue the DTilt research though.

Fox Is Openly Deceptive
Here is the updated data for Dtilt > Uair kill %s.

Center of Battlefield:
Kirby: 84%, very difficult/not a combo
Sheik: 86%, easy
Cloud: 105% Limit: 113%, easy
Bayonetta: 95%, easy
Corrin: 101%, very easy
Bowser: 113%, hard
Samus: 102%
Mii Brawler:
Mii Sword Fighter:
Mii Gunner:

Top platform of Battlefield:
Kirby: 65%, not a combo
Sheik: 70%
Cloud: 84% Limit: 90%, easy
Bayonetta: 75%, easy
Corrin: 82%, very easy
Bowser: 91%, very difficult/not a combo
Samus: 81%, easy
Mii Brawler:
Mii Sword Fighter:
Mii Gunner:

How should I go about it with the Miis? Smallest only or..?

If I'm missing anything besides the other DLC characters (which I don't have) and DI (I don't have a lab partner or the time, maybe later) let me know plz.

I'm pretty sure that if the opponent DIs away you won't get these combos. If they DI in or have no DI though, it's more likely to hit.

 

[Rizen]

Q Should Link use rolls in this game? If so when, if not what are the better options (pivots)?

 

[DarkDeity15]

Fox already has a nice post about DThrow followups to frame accuracy basically, so I don't think we need too much more research there. Continue the DTilt research though.



I'm pretty sure that if the opponent DIs away you won't get these combos. If they DI in or have no DI though, it's more likely to hit.

Yeah, that's pretty much all that's wrong with it. And then there's Dtilt to up b which is a whole different animal (far more of a true combo than Dtilt to Uair since it's a frame 8 move and has loads of horizontal range to invalidate any amount of DI, only downside to that is that it won't kill as early off the top, though with rage it definitely can, if not earlier in some cases). Now that I'm more or less done with these kill %s I can probably start working on Dtilt to up B, hopefully by tomorrow.

And ironically enough Dtilt to Up B is pretty easy to test with DI (as in, survival DI after the up B, DI after Dtilt as an attempt to escape aerial spin attack is probably pointless since up B will probably reach either way from what I'm seeing right now), so I'll definitely be able to cover that.

 

[Deleted member]

IMO, there's nothing for Link to gain from Bido. Yes he could be able to do perfect pivot tilts, but Links moves such a short distance when preforming a perfect pivot that in most cases it's not gonna matter. Most of the time just preforming a normal dash away pivot tilt is a lot stronger because you are able to bet some distance which if you end up hitting the opponents shield means you're not gonna get grabbed an in most situations, punished at al.

And as you will basically have to turn either turn of A+B smash or release B just before preforming a tilt you are either gonna get a very much so reduced amount of bomb slides available or deal with dropping Bido every time you want to do a non smash attack.

Also having to release B to preform a special move or even just recover which makes things just overly complicated. We loose the ability to easily preform rising aerials with the A-stick as well as buffered FF aerials (which personally I use a lot). Wee loose things like Uturn (I think that's what it's called) tilts which even though they aren't as good as Tinks, they are still pretty freaking good as it allows you to get in on the opponent with near sprint speed and tilt them. In general I just don't see what Link possibly could get from this. Now little mac on the other hand, that's truly evil at the brewing.

 

[JohnKnight416]

Please define what you see as a True Combo. From my testing, Ike can airdodge or jump out of the D-Tilt>Upair at 118% and out of the D-Tilt> Fair at 0%, 10%, 20%, and 30%.

I considered whatever is a True Combo depending on what the Combo Meter registers in Training Mode.
I'm not exactly sure if 118% was the exact percentage range in which Dtilt>Upair is considered a True Combo. So I apologize if what I said previously turned out to be false.
I will say that Dtilt>Fair is an actual True Combo, it's just that the timing of when to jump after the Dtilt and the position that you should be in the air for you to execute your Fair all have to be precise in order to pull this Combo off. If Ike was able to jump out of the Dtilt>Fair combo, then there might have been some Mistiming between the Dtilt and Fair or that some DI was involved which also can effect how this combo performs. Reading how the opponent DI's should turn the tides in your favor. Also, the Dtilt>Fair should be better to combo in general if the opponent's Percentage is closest to 0%

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I considered whatever is a True Combo depending on what the Combo Meter registers in Training Mode.

lol.
I'm sorry but that one got me.
For the sake of avoiding confusion in the future, it would be best if you try to stick with the definitions outlined in the smash dictionary. Here I'll even quote the relevant words for you.

"Attack String"/"String"- Two or more attacks connecting with the opponent in a sequence where the character being hit can escape, though usually their options are very limited.

"Frame Trap"- Using a move that puts the opponent into a position where most of their options (and in some cases all of them) are too slow or lack the range required to stop them from being hit by your next move.

"Combo"- Two or more attacks connecting with the opponent in such a way that the character being hit has no options to escape other than 'DI' and 'SDI'.

"True Combo"- Regardless of any other factors (such as DI, SDI, etc), a true combo is two or more attacks that are technically and literally inescapable.

I didn't make the terms or definitions up, I just wrote them down accurately.
The 'combo' counter in training mode is notoriously inaccurate and should not be used for anything ever, certainly not for testing 'combos'. If you want to know how to test these things properly, see my testing and labbing thread. I have both of these threads linked in my signature for easy reference.

 

[JohnKnight416]

Yeah, that's pretty much all that's wrong with it. And then there's Dtilt to up b which is a whole different animal (far more of a true combo than Dtilt to Uair since it's a frame 8 move and has loads of horizontal range to invalidate any amount of DI, only downside to that is that it won't kill as early off the top, though with rage it definitely can, if not earlier in some cases). Now that I'm more or less done with these kill %s I can probably start working on Dtilt to up B, hopefully by tomorrow.

And ironically enough Dtilt to Up B is pretty easy to test with DI (as in, survival DI after the up B, DI after Dtilt as an attempt to escape aerial spin attack is probably pointless since up B will probably reach either way from what I'm seeing right now), so I'll definitely be able to cover that.

I know for a fact that UpB not only can kill off the top, but offstage as well since the last hit of the Aerial Spin Attack launches the opponent diagonally. Pulling it off will be risky depending how far you go offstage, but it'll give you more of a guarantee kill if you manage to catch the opponent.
I'm going to have to try and see for myself if converting a after a Dtilt is a True Combo since I've haven't exactly tried this setup out for myself and that my thoughts on it wouldn't be 100% accurate and that they'll most likely lead to misunderstandings in which I don't wish to happen.

lol.
I'm sorry but that one got me.
For the sake of avoiding confusion in the future, it would be best if you try to stick with the definitions outlined in the smash dictionary. Here I'll even quote the relevant words for you.

I didn't make the terms or definitions up, I just wrote them down accurately.
The 'combo' counter in training mode is notoriously inaccurate and should not be used for anything ever, certainly not for testing 'combos'. If you want to know how to test these things properly, see my testing and labbing thread. I have both of these threads linked in my signature for easy reference.

Thanks! I'm not really familiar with using the terms on this site just yet, so I really appreciate that your filling me in on how to communicate on this Website properly.

 

[Stryker95]

I will say that Dtilt>Fair is an actual True Combo, it's just that the timing of when to jump after the Dtilt and the position that you should be in the air for you to execute your Fair all have to be precise in order to pull this Combo off. If Ike was able to jump out of the Dtilt>Fair combo, then there might have been some Mistiming between the Dtilt and Fair or that some DI was involved which also can effect how this combo performs.

Well, I did this in 1/4 speed hold L so it should be frame perfect, and CPU was on control so there was no DI from the Ike. It isn't true (which Foxy already took care of definition wise), but can be reliable.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Well, I did this in 1/4 speed hold L so it should be frame perfect, and CPU was on control so there was no DI from the Ike. It isn't true (which Foxy already took care of definition wise), but can be reliable.

I forgot I could use it like that lol. That would help with labing DI with Dtilt combos a lot. :v

I could probably do a write up on Dtilt stuff like Foxy did for Dthrow stuff now that I think about it.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I forgot I could use it like that lol. That would help with labing DI with Dtilt combos a lot. :v

I could probably do a write up on Dtilt stuff like Foxy did for Dthrow stuff now that I think about it.

I'm pretty sure we've had this conversation before and it ended with you telling me it was too difficult. And then I said https://youtu.be/wozmu-1Rv7g?t=121

 

[CrimsonRick117]

I'm pretty sure we've had this conversation before and it ended with you telling me it was too difficult. And then I said https://youtu.be/wozmu-1Rv7g?t=121

Lmao Fox I love you

 

[DarkDeity15]

I know for a fact that UpB not only can kill off the top, but offstage as well since the last hit of the Aerial Spin Attack launches the opponent diagonally. Pulling it off will be risky depending how far you go offstage, but it'll give you more of a guarantee kill if you manage to catch the opponent.
I'm going to have to try and see for myself if converting a after a Dtilt is a True Combo since I've haven't exactly tried this setup out for myself and that my thoughts on it wouldn't be 100% accurate and that they'll most likely lead to misunderstandings in which I don't wish to happen.


Thanks! I'm not really familiar with using the terms on this site just yet, so I really appreciate that your filling me in on how to communicate on this Website properly.

Loosen up on the formal language m8. By that I mean, don't force it. I know you're around a lot of experienced players so you're trying to make a good impression, but you're kinda making me cringe lol. You seem like a nice guy though, so stick around.

 

[DarkDeity15]

So can the combo counter be trustworthy of knowing when something isn't a combo? By that I mean, if it says something isn't a combo, is there a possibility that it actually is one in some cases? I still haven't used it at all, but I mean, yeah. Here's a quick sample of what the Dtilt write-ups are gunna be like, and they're Foxy approved:

Dtilt stuff on:

0%: Dtilt to Usmash is escaped by DIing away and air dodging. Dtilt to Fair and Nair is guaranteed. Usmash can be guaranteed by dashing forwards a few frames, but the window is tight.
10%: Uair and Nair can be escaped by DIing away and Usmash is escaped by DIing away and air dodging. Fair is guaranteed if you dash forward a few frames.
20%: Same as above, but Usmash is no longer an option.
30%: Same as above, but Up b is now an option and is guaranteed if you dash forward a few frames. Fair can now be escaped by DIing away.
40%: Same as above, but Fair is no longer an option.
50%: Same as above, but double jump Nair only works if you're frame perfect and if they don't DI away.
60%: Same as above. Only aerial spin attack is always guaranteed since if they DI away you can dash forward a few frames, full hop and then up b shortly after double jumping. Uair works as above if you FH, though it can be avoided easily by simply DIing away.
70%: Up B and Uair can both be avoided by DIing away.
80%: Same as above except Uair must be frame perfect and up b has a high likelihood of killing Fox at the sides of the stage when facing the ledge.
90%: Uair and ASA no longer work
100% and beyond: Nothing works. Go for FH Uairs to catch air dodges.

This is all assuming that Fox is at least at the center of where the Master sword will be when it hits. If Fox is hit by the tip, then follow ups will obviously be less guaranteed.

Oops, sorry about the double post.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

So can the combo counter be trustworthy of knowing when something isn't a combo?

No. An example would be if the opponent can't DJ before landing and then they get hit during landing lag. This is an actual combo that the combo counter wouldn't count.

and they're Foxy approved:

Not yet they're not XD. If someone ever claims something is 'Foxy approved', it's because we've been talking in PM's. Other than that you can look for whether or not I've 'liked' the post, but as it stands as I'm writing this, neither of these has happened. What you could have claimed was that you attempted to use Foxy approved methods of testing.

Dtilt stuff on:

0%: Dtilt to Usmash is escaped by DIing away and air dodging. Dtilt to Fair and Nair is guaranteed. Usmash can be guaranteed by dashing forwards a few frames, but the window is tight.

By DIing away with Fox, Link is forced to dash forwards first in order to hit FH fair, but I don't think that dashing forwards will help to connect FH Nair. I'm also not able to land U-smash.
Are you inputting the DI before/during hitlag (i.e. before hitstun) then holding it from then on? I won't test any further for now because I don't think it's been tested properly.

 

[DarkDeity15]

No. An example would be if the opponent can't DJ before landing and then they get hit during landing lag. This is an actual combo that the combo counter wouldn't count.

Not yet they're not XD. If someone ever claims something is 'Foxy approved', it's because we've been talking in PM's. Other than that you can look for whether or not I've 'liked' the post, but as it stands as I'm writing this, neither of these has happened. What you could have claimed was that you attempted to use Foxy approved methods of testing.

By DIing away with Fox, Link is forced to dash forwards first in order to hit FH fair, but I don't think that dashing forwards will help to connect FH Nair. I'm also not able to land U-smash.
Are you inputting the DI before/during hitlag (i.e. before hitstun) then holding it from then on? I won't test any further for now because I don't think it's been tested properly.

Yes. I held away while taunting as Fox until he was launched a few frames later. And yeah, Usmash is very difficult to pull off and is practically frame perfect. As for the FH Nair thing, that's something I forgot to mention. If you'd like to help me out with this then you're very welcome to. There are a lot of characters to cover including Mewtwo, Lucas and Ryu which I haven't bought. Plus I'm pretty slow at this stuff. And I'll be sure not to make that mistake again lol.

I'll re-test Dtilt to Usmash and FH Nair tomorrow, I need some sleep. :v

 

[Deleted member]

So, this is an extremely useless Link tech, that still could have a use in the most rare of cases. IDK, it's cumb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le-9N3KpSyg&feature=youtu.be

 

[DarkDeity15]

So, this is an extremely useless Link tech, that still could have a use in the most rare of cases. IDK, it's cumb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le-9N3KpSyg&feature=youtu.be

That was discovered a while ago lol. Like, since just before the Wii U version was released.

 

[Deleted member]

That was discovered a while ago lol. Like, since just before the Wii U version was released.

Was it really in the 3DS days when instant item drops were found for characters with tethers? I literally can't remember, it's all just a big blur of information. Still, that doesn't make Auto canceled Dair with bomb less useless

 

[SalemtheEngineer]

So, this is an extremely useless Link tech, that still could have a use in the most rare of cases. IDK, it's cumb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le-9N3KpSyg&feature=youtu.be

I knew about this last year.

If you're close to an opponent you could drop the bomb then jump and do a bair, Link will pick up the bomb, after the second kick you can throw the bomb at the opponent and you can sometimes lead into a smash attack.

 

[Dumbfire]

the actually useful Z drop stuff, IZAC, no one is learning cause it's TOO HAWRD while every competent toon link does it consistently, thumbs up guys

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, I've used and trained instant Z-drop sins I first heard about it and use it fluently in play because... Why not, it's IMO really easy, it looks flash and, you have a bomb in your hand. Though this is sadly not as useful as it was when we could still cancel landing lag with an item toss.

But when I technique I don't mean the actual Zdrop, I mean the whole thing of combining Auto canceled Dair with instant Zdrop to land on stage from a Dair with a bomb in hand without landing lag. Inputs are pretty precise, you can get some combos and/or baits out of it if the opponent derps up, but in general it's just a really flashy thing that's just over all useless to Link play, meaning that I will use it when ever I get the chance, because I'm dumb like that.

If there's one thing I would like to get consistent at though it is the short hop rising instant Zdrop, basically could let me while standing on the ground holding a bomb just do a short hop Bair that grabs the bomb and then go for a follow up. But I'm pretty sure the timing for it is near frame perfect so, RIP
would be cool though

(In know you may not be able to grab the bomb with a move doing that, I'm just wishing)

 

[DarkDeity15]

the actually useful Z drop stuff, IZAC, no one is learning cause it's TOO HAWRD while every competent toon link does it consistently, thumbs up guys

Maybe it's because Toon Link has less jump squat frames...?

 

[Stryker95]

If there's one thing I would like to get consistent at though it is the short hop rising instant Zdrop, basically could let me while standing on the ground holding a bomb just do a short hop Bair that grabs the bomb and then go for a follow up. But I'm pretty sure the timing for it is near frame perfect so, RIP
would be cool though

You can do it, I managed to pull one off at normal speed. Of course it was one out of a hundred, but with practice I am sure one could accomplish it consistently.

 

[Deleted member]

You can do it, I managed to pull one off at normal speed. Of course it was one out of a hundred, but with practice I am sure one could accomplish it consistently.

I can do like... IDK 1/3 or so, but the problem is that I don't think we can grab items out of it as we are moving up and the bomb is moving down. Though it's not like I've tested it in slow motion or what ever, just when waiting for another opponent on FG.

 

[Stryker95]

I can do like... IDK 1/3 or so, but the problem is that I don't think we can grab items out of it as we are moving up and the bomb is moving down. Though it's not like I've tested it in slow motion or what ever, just when waiting for another opponent on FG.

You can. Here is a video showing it, if you can do an instant Z-drop, you can IZAC.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

You can. Here is a video showing it, if you can do an instant Z-drop, you can IZAC.

Dumbfire , I think you're gonna have to make another video.

 

[Dumbfire]

The reason people have trouble doing an aerial from an IZAC is because their fingers are in an awkward position for it if they short hop with X/Y, then Z drop with Z -- their right hand is almost entirely occupied.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

The reason people have trouble doing an aerial from an IZAC is because their fingers are in an awkward position for it if they short hop with X/Y, then Z drop with Z -- their right hand is almost entirely occupied.

That and the fact that the Grab button (which previous had to be inputted on frame 8 and frame 8 only) has to be released before inputting the aerial, otherwise you just get a Zair.

 

[Deleted member]

Dammit D: Now I actually have to learn this, and it I use Z for jump X/L for grab and have C set to attack, so I should maybe be able to buffer it... I guess. IDK, but I hope I can actually learn this, something else to get pissed about when the slowdowns strike in online.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Dammit D: Now I actually have to learn this, and it I use Z for jump X/L for grab and have C set to attack, so I should maybe be able to buffer it... I guess. IDK, but I hope I can actually learn this, something else to get pissed about when the slowdowns strike in online.

No, this cannot be buffered. If you hit the grab any sooner than frame 8 you'll get a jump cancel throw, and if you hit attack any sooner than the frame the grab button is released you'll get a Zair.

 

[Deleted member]

No, this cannot be buffered. If you hit the grab any sooner than frame 8 you'll get a jump cancel throw, and if you hit attack any sooner than the frame the grab button is released you'll get a Zair.

Yeah, I know I can't buffer the jump... now when I think about it, I have no idea why I said buffer in the first place... Anyways, I guess one way to do it would be to use X and the Cstick or A button as that forces me to move away from the grab button before I attack, meaning I can probably just slide my finger from X to A? Assuming that it works similar to how it worked in brawl.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Yeah, I know I can't buffer the jump... now when I think about it, I have no idea why I said buffer in the first place... Anyways, I guess one way to do it would be to use X and the Cstick or A button as that forces me to move away from the grab button before I attack, meaning I can probably just slide my finger from X to A? Assuming that it works similar to how it worked in brawl.

I've never really found a method I was happy with, but for a while I experimented with sliding/rolling my thumb between X and Y. X and A didn't work because it was too easy to accidentally continue to have X held down.

 

[Deleted member]

I've never really found a method I was happy with, but for a while I experimented with sliding/rolling my thumb between X and Y. X and A didn't work because it was too easy to accidentally continue to have X held down.

Hmm that is true, then I guess my best option is to use the Cstick instead as the distance is that big enough to force me to not hold down both at the same time, only problem is if I want to hit the stick right as the movement has to be from the right meaning it's a big motion. Was it a 5 frame window, in that case I guess I could pull it of,