kxiong92
Smash Journeyman
The new knock back on fair makes dtilt to both hits of fair not work as well anymore. I did some testing and Dilt> both hits of fair stops working on Mario at 11% with no di.
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let's call it the nobody-cares-about-another-useless-****ty-impractical-''combo''So what are we going to name Link's new combo?
dair on grounded opponent hitting them off stage -> dair-> jump up-b
The up-b will pretty much always kill opponents at percents where dair -> dair would true combo.
Jump up b is a read but I have gotten it to true combo, seems very percent specific.
Getting dair -> dair to combo is really all about positioning Link's pogo-sword directly in the center of your opponents hurtbox. Any further than the center and you'll hit them in the reverse direction. Any closer and you won't have the momentum to connect hit 2 fast enough.
this. i see too many scrubs hyping about dtilt > fair dealing 35% when it barely even works.The new knock back on fair makes dtilt to both hits of fair not work as well anymore. I did some testing and Dilt> both hits of fair stops working on Mario at 11% with no di.
lol yeah dair bounce combos are but scizor already made a post of that in the only situation its a good option, so any more silly ideas arent necessaryPeople are gonna talk about what's new and changed. Dair bounce combos are new, d-tilt fair is changed (and also something you can land in match all the time against characters of the right weight) so they merit discussion regardless of how impractical you think they are.
I mean we could just cry about dair not locking anymore or call discoveries **** instead of talking about actual character changes the day after a patch.
Munera Pulveris: The Ancient Mystical Fullmetal Photoglide Combo, Envoy of the BeginningSo what are we going to name Link's new combo?
Points for the amount of reference.Munera Pulveris: The Ancient Mystical Fullmetal Photoglide Combo, Envoy of the Beginning
Check and see if using Spin Attack on shield at the edge of the stage still kills us.Points for the amount of reference.
It might even be better than Double Bounce Omega Destiny Spinner Slash Suicide.
... Does anyone need something labbed out so I can do more productive things?
It does. Thought this wouldn't happen often, but rolling into the ledge is really legit. Just don't Up B after.Check and see if using Spin Attack on shield at the edge of the stage still kills us.
Lol. Cloud was out for a day so we don't know the MU at all yet and this definitely isn't the place to talk about MUs.Does anyone else feel that Cloud totally outclasses Link? I got that sense when playing against Clouds today.
He does pretty much everything that we do better. Faster in both planes, better projectile, vastly superior air game, faster attacks, less end lag, and he gets limit powers to boot.
I'm hoping Link gets some needed buffs before its all said and done, but as of now Link is a much worse choice than before.
This still is not the place to talk about Cloud. Go to the social.I'm not even talking about the matchups, more so that there is now a character that does everything Link can but better, at a slight cost of recovery.
Cloud can actually hit things in the air with moves other than nair as his uair has a better hotbox than Link's. His nair is an all around better move than Link's, and his Fair is a better spike than Link's dair. This is one example.
I'm not happy about it as a Link main, but the fact that cloud is better deserves recognition. I'm hopeful but not optimistic for Link buffs.
Yeah, us too. We all want Link to get buffed in terms of frame data. It's been brought up so many times before in fact that we've actually gotten sick of it by now. Just work with what you have.Okay, I'll talk about it elsewhere. I suppose that the next tier list that comes out will either support my assertion or not.
I still wish that Link was faster in general, and that his Fair was less leggy. I think those two improvements would solve a lot of his problems.
Did you read the post above yours?The buffs Sakurai gave to Link's fair were unnecessary and stupid from what I've seen so far. The first hit of fair is unreliable now. Making it harder to connect both hits overall. If Sakurai wanted to buff Link's fair so badly he should've sped the move up. You want to know what else could help Link?
Better air speed. Link is a character that short hops a lot. Think of how much better he could possibly be if they sped up fair and allowed him to move through the air better.
I won't hope for these changes because I know how Sakurai does things. I expect more random and largely negligible changes/buffs next patch.
I guess that's nice but changes like that aren't going to help him move up the tier list or make him viable in my eyes.Did you read the post above yours?
Because of the new buff to the knockback of fair, should Link do more dropzone fairs rather than nairs? Fair has better reach, hitstun, and kb in exchange for higher lag, while nair's long hitbox and low kb (weak hit). Is the trade off worth it for a gimp / kill?
No point in worrying about the stuff we can't/won't get. It's pretty clear they want to keep the design of the character to be a slow hard hitter with decent projectiles. He's arguably the most average character in the game. This may or may not be the last patch affecting Link. Many other characters were neglected much worse.The buffs Sakurai gave to Link's fair were unnecessary and stupid from what I've seen so far. The first hit of fair is unreliable now. Making it harder to connect both hits overall. If Sakurai wanted to buff Link's fair so badly he should've sped the move up. You want to know what else could help Link?
Better air speed. Link is a character that short hops a lot. Think of how much better he could possibly be if they sped up fair and allowed him to move through the air better.
I won't hope for these changes because I know how Sakurai does things. I expect more random and largely negligible changes/buffs next patch.
At what %s does Fair kill though? Is it like in PM or something (in regards to it being a reliable kill option)?No point in worrying about the stuff we can't/won't get. It's pretty clear they want to keep the design of the character to be a slow hard hitter with decent projectiles. He's arguably the most average character in the game. This may or may not be the last patch affecting Link. Many other characters were neglected much worse.
I like this new fair more though despite not connecting both hits. He has something akin to a bomb to fair which is turning out to be a really good/safe kill confirm.
Wow, that's amazing. Sorry I missed it before. Can't wait to try out Link again along with Cloud.I mentioned in the last page that fair 1 kills Mario from FD spawn point with no rage and no DI at 101%. Since you guys are probably more familiar with seeing Gay's fair, for comparison his fair kills Mario in the same position/situation at 99%.
are you forgetting about all of links projectiles plus zair/disjoints?I'm not even talking about the matchups, more so that there is now a character that does everything Link can but better, at a slight cost of recovery.
Cloud can actually hit things in the air with moves other than nair as his uair has a better hotbox than Link's. His nair is an all around better move than Link's, and his Fair is a better spike than Link's dair. This is one example.
I'm not happy about it as a Link main, but the fact that cloud is better deserves recognition. I'm hopeful but not optimistic for Link buffs.
Was wondering about a couple of these things, thanks for testing. I've been playing as cloud lately just to know what im up against, haven't even seen any other clouds or played as link vs cloud so thanks for the heads up.Cloud's been out for a day; chill guys.
I did some testing. Bombs explode and trigger the multi-hit property of Cloud's LB blade beam but stop it from moving forward. All Link's projectiles stop and cancel with normal blade beam. Standard attacks cancel normal bb but not limit break bb. Arrows and boomerang simply travel through limit bb and neither are affected because it's transcendent.
Hylian shield blocks bb when Link crouches due to the diagonal tilt of BB. Limit break BB multi-hits through H shield. Cloud's finishing touch is not H shield blockable either.
It's a buff imo. Link couldn't connect both Fair hits after low %s and the damage/power increase makes up for it at other %s. I'd rather kill with Fair than have a low % combo.Link's fair is a better kill move now, which is nice... but is it true down tilt to both hits of fair doesn't really work anymore? I usually go for down tilt down air at mid percents for the spike near the ledge, or down tilt up air. I usually use Fair or shorthop fair after a down throw or after my opponent gets hit by the boomerang.
So this is a buff and a nerf for Link? lol
Link has both low percent combos and plenty of kill moves lolIt's a buff imo. Link couldn't connect both Fair hits after low %s and the damage/power increase makes up for it at other %s. I'd rather kill with Fair than have a low % combo.
stopped readingBTW, I'm new to this forum so if I do anything "Wrong" please tell me so and I will adapt.
Here are some things that I found, Useful. Probably not outside of FG
Well, as I already read that I guess I broke my promise already... I guess I can't be trustedstopped reading
Why are you always so rude?stopped reading
Thanks. I'll try some of this stuff later. Right now I don't have the time.BTW, I'm new to this forum so if I do anything "Wrong" please tell me so and I will adapt.
Here are some things that I found, Useful. Probably not outside of FG unless the opponent is really flustered. I'm sure you know most of them already. It's all tested on Shiek (Because I felt like killing her a bit today).
Link can get Fair to jab at 0-30% Though it's really hard before 4%. After 25% it get's a bit tricky to get the 3rd hit in so it's probably smarter to cancel the 2nd hit of jab into something like a grab or what ever you may want. Of course DI playes a role in here and I'm sure that opponents can DI out after 20 / 22%
At 19% Shiek will go into a tumble from Links Fair and you have just enough time to arrow lock her. Then run up and transfer the run into a slow run and then stop to reduce the skid frames. After this you can Fsmash her. This kills her at about 22-25% (depending on her position) on FD. So she better hope she don't miss that tech. Of course if it's not gonna kill you can instead hit her with Dair 2 times for max damage. At 30% there's no reason to even try and lock her anymore :/
You can fair to grab her after 19% and then that continues for quite a while, Though at later % you would have to dash grab her, and I'm sure can both DI and jump out by then, so probably go for Zair or boomerang instead.
You can of course get Fair - Dtilt at about 8-17% at 18% the you can hit the Dtilt as well but it has a large chance of getting a meteor instead. After the meteor I think the oponent is able to act before you... But there is a chance they won't predict it which would give you a the upper hand, do with it as you like.
I'm sure I missed some stuff but you're all getting the picture. Link has a bunch of combos and mixups at low% and it can easily take the opponent over 65% in one go. But after 25% you start to run dry of stuff. How ever, the Fair has always had greater range then Nair, has ok Landing lag, is entirely disjointed and does 11% (The same as Sweet spotted Nair).
It's a pretty competent move to kill opponents now and is pretty safe on shield thanks to the shield stun and it's range. If spaced correctly most should not be able to punish it out of shield at all. So we loosed a bunch of Fair based combos but we also got a stronger aerial spacing tool with kill potential.
In the end I feel like it went out about 50/50 with what Link had before, at least with my play stile.
Well, yes it can be kinda useless if you look at it that way. though the idea of it was to create a way where you easily could buffer a move when landing without having to time it with the landing. In competitive play it can be useful for the simple fact that it is a lot easier meaning that you might be able to pull this of even when flustered. And for the people like me who only have FG and online battles to turn to, it allows you to buffer out a move even if there is input lag. Over all it's not something I expect people to start using just like that. But I think it's a cool little thing anyways :3seems uneccessary because if you regular fast fall land u have 4 frames of lag and u can just use that time to buffer a move
I moved this and the discussion that followed from it over to here from the AT thread. I felt it was more relevant here. No harm done.So, After a stupid amount of practice before even looking if it's know I played around with the idea of buffering inputs mid air that come out as you land. And I ended coming up with this (may already be known, didn't find it though). If it really turns out to be a new technique then I'd like it to be called FFAB (Fast Fall Aerial Buffer)
Links Uair has 10 auto cancel frames in the start of the move so if you land during that you while holding shield it will be buffered out "Instantly" (Duh...) But what about if you fast fall it? Well, you can from the full height of short hop get back to stage really fast while buffering out a move that comes out as you land. it's max height is about 3/4 the height of the Full hop (Take my measurement with a bit of salt).
-Buffering the FF Uair it self-
Hold hold down or down diagonal, as long as you did this before you reach to the high point of the jump you will not FF, then when you preform the input for the Uair while holding down on Left control stick it will instantly fast fall. As long as the aerial has enough frames you will land on stage with a nice auto cancel. And now on to the buffering.
-shield-
If you hold shield after the FF Uair it will come up as you land on stage. (again... duh!)
How ever, if you hold left or right when fast falling while holding Shield you will buffer a roll in that direction.
You can also buffer a sidestep by holding down as you press shield in the air and then continue to hold shield and now at any point before you touch the ground release the control stick and Link will do a Side Step as he lands.
-Smash attacks-
If you use C-smash then this part is really easy for you. All you have to do is hold C in the direction you want to smash and it will be buffered out when you land. Though it will enter the charge state so time the release well or press B to release the attack as fast as possible.
For C-attack users it's not as easy tough but still not to hard. You will need A+B smash turned on for this.
For a forward smash you hold B+A and the direction you want to smash in, Up left and right.
But for Down you once again have to do Hold down when you press A+B and then have the L-control stick neutral for it to buffer out.
-Jumps-
You can easily buffer a jump by holding the jump button as you are falling down, when you touch the ground Link will start the crouch animation before the jump, and from there everything is as usual. Release jump before the crouch animation ends to get a short hop or hold it for a full hop. This way you can easily get down to ground and then pull of a aerial attack on your opponents.
-Specials-
First of there are the obvious once. To buffer UpB all you have to do is hold up and B (No ****!)
Then we have Forward B which you do by... you guesses it, forward and B.
Then we have Neutral B which is buffered by holding B without any direction BUT!!! You must make sure that you don't hold down while you're pressing B. If you do it won't work.
And lastly Down B. To do this you have to press and hold B while holding down and then release down at any time before touching the ground. Just like you did with the side step and the smash attacks.
-Tilts and jab-
The tilts and jab work the same way with exception for upwards. So!
Ftilt = Direction + tilt
Jab = Release analog and then press and hold a.
Dtilt = Hold down while pressing a then continue to hold a and then get the control stick into the neutral.
But up tilt is a bit weird and I believe it has something to do with the fact that you can up smash out of a sprint. Because when you try to buffer it you'll get an up smash instead. So the only way to do this so far this is to time A or C-attack up just after you touch the ground, which is a bummer.
And I think that's all of it. A lot of text... Oh well, any questions, things you like to add or a confirmation that this is already know please tell me
-Edit-
I forgot to put grab in here so. To pull of a grab all you need to do is hold A + shield or grab as you come down and make sure that you change the direction of L-analog to anything but down. Simple as that.