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I'm really glad you mentioned this, since I know I'm still struggling with this as a beginner-intermediate player, in addition to airdodging out of hitstun into the ground when trying to tech. Anyone have suggestions, or is it just a timing thing?
I mean, there is the FFAB (Fast Fall Arial Buffer) thing that I posted yesterday which makes it easier. If not, then you're just gonna have to time it. Also you can pretty easily A-land as Link thanks to his Uair which is the mechanic that FFAB builds on.
If you hold down or diagonally down it will FF and my that you preform with the C-stick. this means that you can use a FF Uair and have it's 10 frames of auto cancel spread out over a longer area, thus making it easier. But I also think it means there will be 4 frames of landing lag as you are doing a FF. Other then that you've just got to practice it.
I'd say it works roughly around 40%(in general) and in DL64 its closer to 50% though it has a decently big window before it becomes unreliable. Down Throw to air works pretty consistently in my time using it practically.
The coolest thing I found with this was actually combining the two. Here's the situation (I'm too lazy to film it sorry, plus it's like 5am). Let's say you're edgeguarding on battlefield, align yourself nearest to the edge of the platform, you can cover jump with nair, roll with up-tilt or up-smash, and most importantly neutral get up or get up attack with grab. Now if the opponent is at appropriate percent and does one of the latter get ups, you can down throw to arrow lock and during the lock they will fall off the platform, then of course lock again with an arrow and kill with forward smash. obviously this requires them missing two techs, or teching in place for the first tech, so it's not hugely viable. It can also be pretty funny (against a bad player) to chain this, that is instead of forward smashing at the end, just regrab and repeat--this is obviously not useful in competitive play though.
boards are discussing the MU between our great King and Link, and your input would be greatly appreciated.
I actually like this, my question is, why Spin Attack over Dair?
Well, not if you do it all fast enough, so not 'guaranteed', but the more general point you're making about Up-B vs Dair is fair enough.
Have you tested bair after dthrow? Assuming you're frame perfect with the RAR bair (7 frame jumpsquat + 1 frame turnaround + 5 frame bair= 13 frames), you have frame advantage over SH/FH nair (7 frame jumpsquat + 7 frame nair= 14 frames?) as well a bit more range because bair 1 seems to have more range than nair. Even if you're not frame perfect, the fact that you have more range than nair helps catch people DIing away.
If you look through the list, some of the characters actually do have Bair listed as an option, but not all of them. This is usually for a bunch of different reasons. Bair is quicker than Nair, yes, but only by a frame (it's actually frame 6, not frame 5 [so requiring a frame perfect turn around to FH Bair, while not moving in the direction you turned around in, is a bit unreasonable if you ask me, especially when the alternative is to simply hold jump and 'A' to Nair]) and it's also surprisingly difficult to connect in a way that is guaranteed (which was the main focus of the list itself) due to the position of the small hitboxes on the first hit, which requires much more of you in terms of positioning yourself to hit them. Nair on the other hand is much easier as it more easily covers all DI options and has a large consistent hitbox area within Link and well out infront, which is exactly where D-throw puts the opponent, i.e. in potential blind-spots for Bair. Also at the percents where Bair is technically guaranteed, which is always going to be a small window, usually this is all you'll get out of it, which is less damage than Nair. You're free to use any option you want of course, and there's no reason why in a real match those options won't work for you, but for the purposes of the list itself, Bair wasn't good enough in many cases.
what the ****. nobody waste your time on this please
Fox Is Openly Deceptive
I assume you're looking into Cloud d-throw followups? With him being the talk of the town in recent time, finding those followups will help out those struggling with the matchup.
A better assumption would have been that I'm either too lazy or forgetful, but I appreciate the vote of confidence. Anyway it's done now. Take a link http://smashboards.com/threads/link...-found-in-the-op.379659/page-35#post-20457552
So I was also testing boomerang to bomb stuff, and it turns out at any percent below about 115, you can combo boomerang into upward bombslide, at high percents this combos into DJ ASA, mid percents aerials, low percents up-smash or grab. To be honest, this is probably less useful then FH throw due to your positioning, but it's more stylish
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You never specifically stated which throw you were using. Also it wouldn't hurt if I knew what character the opponent was.
Apologies, and thanks for the response. This works on almost the entire cast, but for this example I was using Ike, and the throw is backthrow. I'll be more specific in the scenario. The spacing of the slide should leave you within grab range of the opponent, as long as you do not pass/go into the opponent it does not matter. On Boxing Ring, here is the method I have succeeded in getting repeated option 2's with. The window to get this option gets smaller and smaller as their percentage rises, it is very loose and relatively easy to do around 50%, and requires, as far as I can tell, nearly frame perfect timing up towards 100%. I bombslide in full speed, grab the opponent, and then immediately slow to 1/4 holding L. Then you can let the bomb fall as you please, backthrow Ike when the bomb is a little below the green line (i have camera fixed). I believe what you actually want to happen for this method is for Ike to be released the frame before the bomb falls past your upper-body/waist, thus he is further towards you when the bomb explodes and it knocks him back above you. I am working right now to try to get the third option, my guess is that this occurs when the bomb is directly above Ike as he is released, and so the blast somehow knocks him down (though I've never seen a bomb hit down in any other scenario so I'm not sure if that makes sense). I'll keep trying to find the timing for when that happens.
Oh, so they don't actually get hit down then. Well that's just a little bit disappointing for me personally. I was hoping to find something janky to do with interrupting the two hits of B-throw. But still, I'll grant it that this opens up better combo opportunities compared to simply throwing them directly into the bomb which is what people usually attempt, so that's kinda cool.
Yeah I was hoping for the same, I thought something way jankier was going on until I finally caught it at 1/4 speed. The animation for option 3 still looks bizarre for me though, probably because I'm using the 2 frame skip. Somehow on the frame I see the bomb explode (so possibly 2nd frame of explosion), Falcon is already on the other side of Link. You'd think since I've done it at least 10-20 times now I'd at least once get the frame where he's being hit by the bomb, but it doesn't appear to exist. Just, bomb almost exploded, then bomb exploded and falcon on completely other side. So it's not the jank we wanted, but still seems a little jank to me unless I am just always getting frame 2 of the explosion.
If you're not in danger it's a good way to setup stage control. I think that bombs only can be dropped w/o Zair as you start jumping (confirm someone?) so you probably get Zair lag even if it doesn't show when landing. It's only 8 frames though.
From experience, it's great when you're getting rush down. If they get hit by the bomb, it gives you follow up opportunities which can lead to stage control. Even if they don't take the bait, the active bomb should give you a little window to re position yourself.
When being rushed down I'd rather drop the bomb with Zair attacking is what I meant.
Zair only has 8 frames of landing lag. But yes, I use it quite a bit myself. Characters often are rushing at Link. Dropping the bomb puts a hitbox out for a while and often catches people off guard in my experience.
