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Links bad match ups?

ITALIAN N1NJA

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Zero Suit Samus, Fox, Falco, etc. There's a thread on this I believe. Hylian posted what he believed to be Links' worst matchups. Links' worst match ups are all characters that revolve around heavy pressure. Link is the perfect weight to get comboed, so he suffers from pressure.

In my opinion, Falco is by far Links' worst match up. The moment Falco gets in on you if you don't zone properly, if he's even decent your dead. Falco will short hop laser coming towards you into a Dair most likely. He'll pillar your shield constantly and apply pressure on you. There isn't much you can do besides wait for Falco to make a mistake to create an opening. Short hop Nair is good out of shield(it takes 10 frames though) and Up b out of shield(it takes 8 frames though) is also a good tool. It's hard because Falco is fast and Links' only options in shield are pretty slow compared to a character like Falco.

If you'd like, you could ask the same question in the discussion thread for Link. You'd probably get helpful advice there as well.
 
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Fenrir VII

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I personally believe the spacies lose to link.. But yeah let's use the matchup thread.
 

ITALIAN N1NJA

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I personally believe the spacies lose to link.. But yeah let's use the matchup thread.
So do I. If you can avoid getting pillared or up-smashed, I think Link combos the living hell out of spacies quite easily. Plus they have recoveries that have bad start-up lag, so you can even spike them. Yes you read that correctly. LINK can METEOR SMASH spacies. You can also just do a grounded Up-b to use a safer option to punish them if they don't sweetspot which will semi spike them. The Dtilt can meteor smash and usually cover lower range near the ledge than the spin attack can, so even if they try to sweetspot they have a good chance of being hit by Dtilt. What happens If you miss the meteor? No worries. If you miss the spike and still get hit, even with DI they will be scooped upwards for a perfect full hop Fair setup.
 

Wolf_

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I have trouble with Mario, Lucario, ROB, Samus and Kirby, pretty much any character Link can't combo

I do believe Fox and Falco are bad matchups, but I just know them too well
 

Vidiot825

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Fox, sheik, and mk seem to be hard to play against while link bc of their good in-your-face game (mind you these characters have a hard time against link as well)
Olimar also does strangely well if you manage to block the projectiles with his pikmin (better up close game than link... plus he has a decent chain grab on him).
Marth because he combos the heck out of link, but he's more of an even matchup if anything.
And Mario is Mario, so i'd imagine him doing well in PM, as always (fireballs anyone?).

All in all, I feel it's about how well the player can get into link's face and keep up the pressure so that he can't set up his projectile wall.
Hope this helps
 

Problem2

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Mario, Sheik, Falcon, Metaknight.

Fox/Falco is disadvantage, but Link punishes so hard for every small thing, it's hard to say we flat out lose it.
 

Fenrir VII

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I think Mario, MK, and all spacies are in Link's favor... Like solidly.

CF is hard man.
Sheik yeah I can see that
 

Heero Yuy

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Just gonna list down my matchup opinions based on sole experience (thus not everybody's on here):

Favor (or not bad for) Link: Lucario, DDD, Pika, Ness, Peach, Zelda, Samus, Kirby, Squirtle, Ganon, GnW, Roy (I figured him out not long ago), Bowser, Puff

Bad for Link: Sheik, Marth, Falcon, Sonic, ZSS, Diddy, Fox, MK, Mario

TERRIBLE for Link: Falco

Everyone else I don't know.

Edit: I thought about it and I don't think Mewtwo is bad for Link.
 
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Fenrir VII

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God I disagree almost completely. Only matches I can see being honestly bad are CF, Sheik, possibly sonic, possibly MK, possibly Mewtwo. I'd also not scoff if somebody said pika, or other smallish fastish chars.

Wholeheartedly think that link beats all spacies.
No way he should be losing to Mario and Marth isn't worse than even.

I just don't think he has any really bad matchups...
 

Heero Yuy

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Fenrir calm down. Just because I listed them under bad for Link doesn't mean they all hard counter him.

Mario is like a smaller Sheik and he's got a great combo game AND a chain grab on Link. It's certainly not favoring of Link.

And out of the FE boys, didn't we agree that Marth gives him the most trouble? I'd still give it 55:45 Marth. I have trouble with Ike, but that's probably cuz I suck versus him. I also suck vs Diddy, so I can probably take him off there.

I don't think Link's awful against Fox and Wolf, but Falco I think is still incredibly hard for Link (probably the only hard counter). His lasers are still a problem unless you have great powershielding ability. Of course, however, you could just throw him off stage and gimp him.

P.S. I'm a noob. Don't take my matchup opinions seriously bro.
 
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Vidiot825

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Fenrir calm down. Just because I listed them under bad for Link doesn't mean they all hard counter him.

Mario is like a smaller Sheik and he's got a great combo game AND a chain grab on Link. It's certainly not favoring of Link.

And out of the FE boys, didn't we agree that Marth gives him the most trouble? I'd still give it 55:45 Marth. I have trouble with Ike, but that's probably cuz I suck versus him. I also suck vs Diddy, so I can probably take him off there.

I don't think Link's awful against Fox and Wolf, but Falco I think is still incredibly hard for Link (probably the only hard counter). His lasers are still a problem unless you have great powershielding ability. Of course, however, you could just throw him off stage and gimp him.

P.S. I'm a noob. Don't take my matchup opinions seriously bro.
I've actually had a lot of experience in the matchups you listed and I almost completely agree with you.
I agree it's very slightly in Marth's favor
I don't think ZSS or sonic have a good game against link
But I think fox does significantly BETTER than Falco against link
Also, I know you probably haven't played many competent Olimar mains yet, but that's a tough one for link, so that's one to think about

Overall, pretty solid list though

Ps: link counters snake so hard that it's almost comical =)
 

Heero Yuy

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I've actually had a lot of experience in the matchups you listed and I almost completely agree with you.
I agree it's very slightly in Marth's favor
I don't think ZSS or sonic have a good game against link
But I think fox does significantly BETTER than Falco against link
Also, I know you probably haven't played many competent Olimar mains yet, but that's a tough one for link, so that's one to think about

Overall, pretty solid list though

Ps: link counters snake so hard that it's almost comical =)
Link's good against Sonic but his mobility seems to define why it favors Sonic just a little. ZSS I've never faced but I'm basing it off of what Hylian said, lol.

And while Fox has the waveshine combos (although nerfed, shine --> Upsmash is really scary) and the incredible mobility, Falco I feel combos Link way harder and the lasers practically shut him down. He might not be as fast as Fox but he's still way faster than Link. Falco's pillars are just scarier to me than Fox's. Fox is maybe 60:40 over Link while Falco I'd give 70:30. The latter is easily edgeguarded and comboed but he beats Link in every other aspect.

Anyone feel free to prove me wrong on this matchup. :p
 

Fenrir VII

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Nah it's not that I'm not calm. just always shocking to see another person who plays the same char as me have a completely different view of matchups.

Fox and Falco: I kind of think Link is one of their worst matchups in the game. I'm not saying it's terrible for them or anything, but I do think both matches are pretty handily in Link's favor. They are both incredibly strong in the neutral, but honestly, so is Link. And as soon as the match devolves out of the neutral, I think Link wins it. Link has serious 0-death applications out of practically any hit he gets on them, and it only requires a bit of on-reaction DI and tech reads. If the spacies get off stage against him, they should die. That's just not true the other way around though... Falco in particular has ridiculous 70-80% combos on Link sure, but they generally can't lead to a death-touch type situation unless the Link player is predictable. So essentially, the matchups are based around just brutalizing each other, but Link gets more from his hits. Link's anti-air game is also incredibly good, so their usual full-hop mixups just don't work against him, and chance giving him a pivot grab read, which again, can conceivably lead to death. Falco honestly has issues edgeguarding link, too.

I personally think Fox is the harder matchup, but it's close between him and Falco. Fox kills Link quite a bit easier with shine spikes and combos into usmash, and he also has a bit of a better time recovering, so that swings it for me. Falco's lasers aren't too scary for Link, imo, because you can fire back with boomerang fairly reliably to stop the laser spam and apply pressure. Rang is a LOT safer against Falco because his horizontal speed isn't what Fox's is. As a rule, I don't really care if they can reflect the rang because worst case, Link gets hit by the weak hit, which really doesn't lead to much.

As a note, I NEVER shield in either of these matchups, unless I'm trying to PS the lasers. Shield is incredibly unsafe against either of them, but other options make it easier.
 
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Vidiot825

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Nah it's not that I'm not calm. just always shocking to see another person who plays the same char as me have a completely different view of matchups.

Fox and Falco: I kind of think Link is one of their worst matchups in the game. I'm not saying it's terrible for them or anything, but I do think both matches are pretty handily in Link's favor. They are both incredibly strong in the neutral, but honestly, so is Link. And as soon as the match devolves out of the neutral, I think Link wins it. Link has serious 0-death applications out of practically any hit he gets on them, and it only requires a bit of on-reaction DI and tech reads. If the spacies get off stage against him, they should die. That's just not true the other way around though... Falco in particular has ridiculous 70-80% combos on Link sure, but they generally can't lead to a death-touch type situation unless the Link player is predictable. So essentially, the matchups are based around just brutalizing each other, but Link gets more from his hits. Link's anti-air game is also incredibly good, so their usual full-hop mixups just don't work against him, and chance giving him a pivot grab read, which again, can conceivably lead to death. Falco honestly has issues edgeguarding link, too.

I personally think Fox is the harder matchup, but it's close between him and Falco. Fox kills Link quite a bit easier with shine spikes and combos into usmash, and he also has a bit of a better time recovering, so that swings it for me. Falco's lasers aren't too scary for Link, imo, because you can fire back with boomerang fairly reliably to stop the laser spam and apply pressure. Rang is a LOT safer against Falco because his horizontal speed isn't what Fox's is. As a rule, I don't really care if they can reflect the rang because worst case, Link gets hit by the weak hit, which really doesn't lead to much.

As a note, I NEVER shield in either of these matchups, unless I'm trying to PS the lasers. Shield is incredibly unsafe against either of them, but other options make it easier.
Agreed on the match up, link has the touch of death against spacies. Fox technically might be able to wave shine link off easily and get in easier for a kill. Falco not so much, unless you have a Falco that's insane that is.
If you want style points against Falco, approach through the lasers with the hylian shield since you can walk with it now (would not recommend as an active tactic though, haha). I think it might even be able to block off lucario's aura sphere charge shot, just as a comparison.
 

J3f

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Metaknight is definitely a problem due to all your projectiles literally going over his head. If your opponent doesn't know the match up though and throws out a Dimensional cape you can punish with a spin attack or even a down air.
 

RuslinJimmies

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As someone who plays a lot of links, I've found my fraud fox gives them problems because it's fox and heavy pressure. Also zss is the only time I enjoy playing against link because of transcendent lasers. **** yo projectiles link, we going right through them
 

Vidiot825

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As someone who plays a lot of links, I've found my fraud fox gives them problems because it's fox and heavy pressure. Also zss is the only time I enjoy playing against link because of transcendent lasers. **** yo projectiles link, we going right through them
It's not just the pressure
If fox decides to double laser camp link in a decently sized stage there is almost nothing link can do about it
Damaged gets racked up fast and link can't really chase him down
Kinda similar to the peach match up in a sense
 

HK_Spadez

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yo guys. falco is one of my secondaries and i have to say i find it easier to run falco against link than using my main lucario. those lasers help a lot.

on the other hand though. how do you deal with down/up throw -> Up b? ( i dont know whcih one but at high % whenever I mess up i get grabbed and thrown into a up B for instant death as falco)

aside from that everything else is in falco's favor. unless theres some DI ishould be using to avoid it
 

Third

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Down throw to Up B is a guaranteed combo Link has on spacies at around 70%-80%, not too sure of the range. It's imperative however to avoid getting grabbed whenever you can, because Link does a lot of damage to spacies with a single grab and I have done multiple 0 to death combos on spacies with a grab alone.
 

Fenrir VII

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yo guys. falco is one of my secondaries and i have to say i find it easier to run falco against link than using my main lucario. those lasers help a lot.

on the other hand though. how do you deal with down/up throw -> Up b? ( i dont know whcih one but at high % whenever I mess up i get grabbed and thrown into a up B for instant death as falco)

aside from that everything else is in falco's favor. unless theres some DI ishould be using to avoid it
You don't deny death when playing against Link. You accept it, then embrace it willingly.
There is no escape. Only death.

highlighted the part where you pretty much answered your own question.
 

AeroLink_the_SoulMaster

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Sheik, Falcon, Mario, Fox, Diddy Kong, Awestin's Ness can give Link a hard time. I personally feel that there isn't a MU that Link can't overcome and win consistently; he's got a solid MU spread.
 

Anaky

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In my opinion the MU's that Link loses are: Fox, Falco, Mario, ZSS, Shiek, Falcon. Ive also played all these MU's against players that are almost or as good as me. I could imagine Wolf as well but I haven't played a good Wolf yet, il be sure to play Professor Pro's Wolf next week as it was his first main.

Diddy and Meta might also be slightly bad, but I don't think as bad as any of the above.
 

NickRiddle

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I still don't feel like Fox, Falcon or Sheik wins. Even Mario's kinda doable.
I agree with Falco and ZSS though.
 

Vidiot825

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I still don't feel like Fox, Falcon or Sheik wins. Even Mario's kinda doable.
I agree with Falco and ZSS though.
I'd actually rather say that fox does better than Falco. In addition shiek goes at least even with link.
Other matches that I feel link might not like are marth and surprisingly olimar (though it's hard to come by an olimar player)
Not sure abt zss, not well versed in the match up
 

Fenrir VII

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I don't feel like Fox, Falco, or Wolf win against Link. (personally think Link BOPS Wolf and wins 55-45 > 6-4 against the others)

I really don't understand why Mario is a problem. Even if he had a death CG against Link, he doesn't have a reliable way to get in and set up the grab, so I don't think it should factor in for high-level play. In all other areas, Link just outranges and outprioritizes him, so throwing hitboxes all game is a good way to play.

Sheik is at least annoying... Link's "A Game" doesn't really work on her because she ducks rang, zair is almost unhittable, and she's one of the few chars that can projectile him better than vice versa. She also F's with our recovery in a variety of ways (needles are almost universally good against him because Link's recovery angle is almost perfect for needling). She can even needle Link OR his bomb to screw the bomb jump. She can also combo him and get him offstage fairly easily. On the flip side, Link combos her to high heaven and kills/edgeguards her really well.. I'd be fine with even or slightly (max 6-4) Sheik's favor on this one.

Marth is similar to Sheik... requires a different gameplan from Link than the normal, but I think Link wins it slightly. No worse than even.

Don't think Diddy or MK are worse than even. They're just good characters.

I have 0 experience for ZSS, but from videos, her approach is REALLY linear... revolves around paralyzer, then runs after it. She also has tons of problems getting in... past rang and jabs, etc... I'd like to hear why this match is so hard. I understand she combos Link very well, but so do most of the cast, so I'm mostly curious, since her name is brought up a lot around here.

Ness/Lucas/Olimar all seem to just be outprioritized by Link's options.


tbh, I'm REALLY scared of CF at the moment, after getting my head handed to me by Fatality (lol). I'm not 100% on this, but it sure feels like he's hopping and skipping around any projectiles, getting past anything slightly-less-than-safe, and hitconfirming Nair/Jab/etc into grab combos, which usually lead to Link dying. Like, I don't think this is a death match for Link by any means, but it certainly doesn't feel like it's in his favor.
 

Problem2

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Yeah Captain Falcon is hard on large stages where he can choose to leave your sphere of influence. Imo, instead of trying to camp, you want to pressure Falcon and restrict hos movement anyway you can. His secret weakness is that he cant handle cross-ups on his shield very well. Several things that are unsafe become safe on the back of his shield and don't forget to nail your edgeguards.

Metaknight feels like the most difficult match-up to me right now. Everytime I play our scene's top Metaknight, the match-up just feels worse, despite any practice or studying I do. Metaknight just has so many options from the air. I try to limit where he can land by planting bombs, but pulling bombs is slow, so you can only cover like 1 maaaybe 2 places at a time. All his best stuff is also non-committal and leads to huge combos and edgeguards. He even has the easiest time covering all of Link's options when Link's recovering. He can afford to go off stage and hover near you as you use up your good options, then hit you away.
 
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PZ Crawfish

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Does anyone know about the charizard match up? I keep getting beaten by charizard
 

Bravo_10

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I've never really had a problem with Charizard. His nair has like the biggest hitbox coverage in the whole game, but it's slow and can be worked around if you space around him with projectiles. He's also one of those poor, unfortunate characters with a large hurtbox, so he gets comboed and shot into oblivion. My main problem against him is that his recovery actually has surprisingly varied options, so I occasionally have trouble with edge guards. That said, you can still just body the guy onstage instead of off.

With regards to my matchup thoughts, Fox and Falco are easily the two characters I have the most trouble with. However, I'll say that Fox is really more like a personal demon, and I definitely think Link has the tools to go even in that matchup (though out-of-shield is a nightmare.) I also had a bit of trouble with a Pit player at the weekly I went to last Friday, but I think that matchup is actually pretty even and I was just inexperienced with it. Looking back on it, both characters punish seriously hard and have excellent projectiles. They also both have long recoveries that are at least reasonably vulnerable to edgeguarding. I just got outplayed.
 

Toon link is 2cute!

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Ive only recently started playing with link but i usually play with my brother and he uses falco. Kind of a pain to deal with but still i win but i just think its because hes a bad falco player.
I hate lasers and his shine
 

Drexel

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I honestly don't have much trouble against Falco/Fox players mainly because I know how they move and fight being a main of the latter in Melee. But for some reason, Peach and Diddy Kong give me the most trouble. Otherwise, I can deal with the other characters.
 

Heero Yuy

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Link-Peach if you ask me is 55:45 Link's favor due to his great ability to zone her out well. However she punishes him harder than vice versa, plus her pressure is also really good with the turnips and floating. In the end however Link is a floaty killer and can outspace Peach very well if he knows what he's doing. It favors Link but it's hard.

Diddy is a trickier one for Link however. The bananas are probably the best projectile in the game right now and good Diddys are as good with items as good Links. Would say it's slightly in Diddy's favor.

Different note... Just wanna throw in here that I'm probably the only Link on this board who detests the Marth matchup.
 
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Drexel

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Link-Peach if you ask me is 55:45 Link's favor due to his great ability to zone her out well. However she punishes him harder than vice versa, plus her pressure is also really good with the turnips and floating. In the end however Link is a floaty killer and can outspace Peach very well if he knows what he's doing. It favors Link but it's hard.

Diddy is a trickier one for Link however. The bananas are probably the best projectile in the game right now and good Diddys are as good with items as good Links. Would say it's slightly in Diddy's favor.

Different note... Just wanna throw in here that I'm probably the only Link on this board who detests the Marth matchup.
Okay... I'll try that but Peach has always been so darn annoying to me... XD

Yes, I did figure that out when I decided to main Diddy in Brawl and looked up some tutorials of him. But one thing I did realize is that Link can throw his bombs farther than Diddy's bananas. If you can hit Diddy with a bomb and follow up with a boomerang to help the approach, Link can punish Diddy with some combo attacks. I know this because one of my friends can wreck with Diddy and I did manage to 2 stock him once I figured that out.
 

Drexel

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I think Link demolishes Peach, but that's just me.
She's so slow.
Idk, she's been that thorn in the side for me as long as I can remember....but I think I am getting better with dealing with her.
 
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