Link

[IYM!]

That would be like Bowser's whirling fortress. I'd like that. It should have a few armor frames too

and of course, keeping the power on the attack

 

[Neo Zero]

Invincibility does not equal armor frames.

Just let me move with it and ill be a happy camper.

 

[Rizen]

Armor, invincibility, whatever. Link should have advantages other characters have.

 

[Neo Zero]

If that's the case, how about we start with a good recovery and work our way up from there .

 

[Kamiko]

...good recovery...work our way up...

I c wut u----- *gets KO'd by Link's amazing new recovery*

 

[Rizen]

Link's great recovery arrives with flying pigs when hell freezes over

 

[Funkmasterblitz]

Link needs his 64 recovery back Jk

 

[_Darkpit_]

I don't understand why you think, Links recovery are to bad. Since 2008, I play Super Smash Bros Brawl daily. I tryed Link some weeks and I often wins. And I fought against a elite Link player as Pit. Sometimes I won and sometimes he wons. I think Link is okay.

My main character is Pit. My brother plays Link and Ganondorf and we win equally.

 

[Metalbro]

I don't understand why you think, Links recovery are to bad. Since 2008, I play Super Smash Bros Brawl daily. I tryed Link some weeks and I often wins. And I fought against a elite Link player as Pit. Sometimes I won and sometimes he wons. I think Link is okay.

My main character is Pit. My brother plays Link and Ganondorf and we win equally.

Link's recovery is bad. It is very short.

 

[Rizen]

For actual recovery distance Link's is the shortest in the game (if he's not holding a bomb). Link players say that Link recovering is 5% actual recovery and 95% DI, great weight, momentum canceling, bomb use, walling the opponent off with projectiles etc, mixups with tethers and upBs and using tactics to not be launched away like whiplash.

 

[Kamiko]

For actual recovery distance Link's is the shortest in the game (if he's not holding a bomb). Link players say that Link recovering is 5% actual recovery and 95% DI, great weight, momentum canceling, bomb use, walling the opponent off with projectiles etc, mixups with tethers and upBs and using tactics to not be launched away like whiplash.

I like the idea of some characters being more about not getting sent flying, rather than getting back up when they do. Link's projectiles of course can mess around with the opponent's own recovery. I remember once seeing the Gale Boomerang pull someone under the stage, so I guess it's got that going for it.

 

[_Darkpit_]

Link's recovery is bad. It is very short.

But I've won with Link each time. And every character needs disadvantages, because we have sudden death every time. ^^ Every player have to exploit the weak point of the '' enemy '' character. Pit for example can not use his B + up twice, but its okay. ^^ Or the mirrorshield doesn't block backwards attacks like Kirbys stone. But its okay too. ^^ Or Ganondorf. He hasn't the best recovery but he is very strong. ^^ Every character have advantages and disadvantages. ^^ And the most important advantage of link are his projectiles / Items ( like bomb, arrow + bow and so on. ) And his sword and grappling hook has a very good range and he is normal strong till strong.

And my brother is a Link player and he often wins against online gamers. ^^

 

[Ryan.]

I like the design of Link in this game. I think it is much improved. I wonder if he will have any new moves though.

 

[IYM!]

i hope a change in his boomerang, i dont like the wind
and more strenght in his moves, i think link needs more kill power

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Of course, neither is as cool as Walink...

View attachment 1132

I love that, I actually always wanted a purple tunic on Link.

Walink, that reeks of awesomeness!

 

[AquaZD]

I hope for a multitude of things.
1) Make Link not suck. He's always bottom tier or near such because he has weak everything. Brawl nerfed him into the ground, and it was simply ridiculous.
2) Get rid of the tether recovery. Yes this necessitates you bring the Hookshot into play, not the Clawshot. I'm sorry but tether recoveries are ridiculous on a character like Link.
3) Get him some decent killing moves.
4) Return L-Cancelling.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

I hope for a multitude of things.
1) Make Link not suck. He's always bottom tier or near such because he has weak everything. Brawl nerfed him into the ground, and it was simply ridiculous.
2) Get rid of the tether recovery. Yes this necessitates you bring the Hookshot into play, not the Clawshot. I'm sorry but tether recoveries are ridiculous on a character like Link.
3) Get him some decent killing moves.
4) Return L-Cancelling.

I totally agree, in Brawl they totally nerfed Link into Lunk for how terrible he was, I still use him, because he's freakin Link, but c'mon, at least make him like he was in Melee.

I miss the scraww thing with the spin attack.

Also give him fire arrows, or make the arrows random where they are either Ice Arows, Fire Arrows or regular arrows.

 

[_Darkpit_]

i hope a change in his boomerang, i dont like the wind and more strenght in his moves, i think link needs more kill power

Mh I think Link has the optimal strength but he should use his beatle. ^^ For example:

Pit vs Link:

Recovery: Pits recovery is better, but Links recovery cam damage enemys.
Range: Link wins ( because his sword has a better range, he has more projectiles and a grappling hook. )
Reflect projectiles: Pit wins ( Angelring or mirrorshield ... But be carefull! He has 2 reflectors but he can not reflect / protect his back like Fox. 2 reflectors were a good balance. )
Strenght: Link wins ( Down B, Seite B, B up, A up... and so on ). Pits main kill move is an air backward attack. His other attacks need a lot of lucky. ^^
Moving: Pit wins he is faster.
Projectile: Link wins because both has lethal projectiles but Link has more projectiles as Pit.
Defensive: Link and Pit wins. Pit has his mirrorshield, bubbleshield, Wings of icarus and Link has his boomerang, he can use down A in the air ( he survives good ) and can use the hyliashield and the bubble shield. ^^


I can continue with other characters but we know the developer have more experience than gamers. ^^ Thats my opinion. ^^ =I

 

[Rizen]

Pit vs Link, Pit wins +2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MVlP-ThdaU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgIL1ej-blk
I admit that's a MU I don't know very well. I could take him down another stock with practice but it is a -2 for Link

 

[Diddy Kong]

I think you could've used more Up Tilts. I like playing Link in Brawl actually despite him being so rubbish. Same with Ganondorf. Neutral Air could be used as approach more to, and Link's Down Smash is longer than Pit's to, so you can punish his with yours easily.

 

[Rizen]

^I went in that blind lol. He out-spaced me and I wasn't prepared. It's hard to find really good Pits. He almost never actually plays outside the ladder. Wifi makes the MU worse for Link and better foe Pit.

 

[_Darkpit_]

Pit vs Link, Pit wins +2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MVlP-ThdaU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgIL1ej-blk
I admit that's a MU I don't know very well. I could take him down another stock with practice but it is a -2 for Link

Admiral Pit is one of top gamers I think. I don't want to be nasty, but RizenLink didn't fight well.... Sorry about that. I tried with Link and I fight better than RizenLink ( sorry again ).

For example on the first Video:

( 1 ) It doesn't help when he fights against the air like in 0:28 seconds till 0:30 seconds. He attacks early.
( 2 ) In Super Smash Bros: You have to keep moving... in 2:47 RizenLink doesn't move or dodge and so on.
( 3 ) I would never use the Boomerang when ( in our example Pit ) runs to Link like in 2:55 minutes. Maybe Pit use angelring for example.

For example on the second Video:

( 1 ) The same like on the first Video. He fights against the air. Watch it on 0:16 seconds.
( 2 ) Why did he use on 0:25 seconds down A? It was a mistake... Admiral Pit had use A up or the air forward A attack for example. ^^ But neutral A is also okay.
( 3 ) Up A Attack on 03:10 minutes? Whom he wanted to attack? He had to rescue themselve. ^^

Sorry If I was to nasty. =I But I think I'm right.


At Rizen: You are wrong... How do you want to control Pits arrow if the online server is jerkying / racking ? Pits arrows are very important to kill. And you have to on time if you want to use air backwards. ^^ It is not easy. Every character has difficulties with a bad server.


At Diddy Kong: Yes Links down Smash is longer, but its stronger. Have you ever seen, Pit wins with down B ( out of sudden deaths or if he on the top screen ) ^^ Link can kill characters and has more ability to assert oneself.

Example in fall:

A Pit gamer jumps up and use A Up... a Link gamer is falls and use down A... We know Link damage Pit.

And now: Pit use down A and Link use A up. Who wins? ^^

Link is stronger, Pit is faster. ^^ Besides Pit gets better moves like the upperdash arm, because he needs that. Maybe Link gets better moves too or he will be faster.

 

[Rizen]

I said I didn't know them MU. You can't judge someone on a MU that they have little experience vs top players with. I've done better vs high level MKs because I know that MU.
I'm not throwing out games vs scrub players to look good. This is not a good example of the MU: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GU-i8OKjlI It's very easy to think Link's great when you've only played bad people. The fact is it's a -2 MU.

Post one of some of your replays vs good people before you get on my case. If you think Link goes even with Pit or other characters why don't you try explaining that here: http://smashboards.com/threads/official-swf-matchup-chart-v3-0.338390/ since you think you know what you're talking about and see what happens.

Pit gets a big wifi boost; ask anyone.

 

[Funkmasterblitz]

Link going to suck in Smash 4 judging from what I have seen so far. His recovery looks terrible as usual.

 

[_Darkpit_]

I'm sorry but I can't do anything with technical terms. Since release day I play Super Smash Bros Brawl every day. I'm not a top player but I'm a very good Pit player. Tell me why has Link wins sometimes against me in Wifi? Why did he win in a match with 3 players? You can't tell me you have never seen, that a Link player wins against a good gamer. =/


And I think I gave good examples, because we can watch it in youtube. ^^

I don't know who release the table, but it could be make by everyone. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry. Maybe the players don't practiced enough. Possibly the most players takes other characters like Lucario, Meta-Knight or Snake, because they are very famous. ^^ I know Link is famous too, but I read more thinks about Lucario than Link in many Forum.


Pit doesn't get boost on wifi. Pit gets hindy like other characters.
Try to kill with arrows, if the server is racking. I'm sure you can't do it, because it's to difficault to aim.
And this is only 1 example.


We can take another character like Ganondorf. ^^

What do you think about Ganondorf?

Sorry If I upset you, I don't want that. =I

I talk about my experience. Thats all. ^^

 

[Rizen]

No problem.

^Pit doesn't need to aim arrows on wifi. He can spam B and you can't PS them then he can move and keep camping for a lot of free damage.

You can't tell me you have never seen, that a Link player wins against a good gamer. =/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrTctPlKrms
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaALeb2vvso
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmBCLhBvIc4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME5OhTdtFVE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLJpR5ognqM
etc

I can see where you're coming from; I don't believe in the no-win scenario either. Wins are few though and mean Link outplayed the opponent. For a match he needs 2 of 3 wins with CP stages and so on which is even harder Sometimes Link can win but in a tournament he's faced with many matches and most of them are solid disadvantages (-2) or he gets counter picked in (-3) MUs. A loss is a loss no mater how close the game . Time outs hurt Link and force him to approach and he's lost good stages like Brinstar. It's very hard to outplay an opponent who is faster with better mobility and can simple move close and hit Link and come out on top http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esDooXdwlZY

Ganon can be scary when he gets fight momentum but he's exploited so badly and slow. Ganon's grab has almost no range and his fastes ground move is frame 8. Shielding happens frame 1 and anyone who shields Ganon gets to punish him afterwards. He gets exploited by every annoying chain grab, infinite and grab release, etc in some way.
Ganon can intimidate and kill after 4 or 5 solid hits but to get those he has to outplay opponents who are 4 times faster and often have better reaching attacks or can use range attacks.


...this isn't really the thread for MU talk so I'll stop. Post on the Link forums if you want.
Sorry for derailing the thread lol.

 

[_Darkpit_]

No problem.^^

Yes. I know my english isn't the best, but I practice here and I'm a Super Smash Bros Brawl fan xD.

I think every poeple have different opinions. The most important is, Sakurai develope a better balance. ^^ He chooses for balance suitable characters like Megaman like he said. I think almost every player / character has some problems with balance. Someone has more problems, other players have less problems. ^^

I have some problems too with Pit but I think, Link players has also problems. ^^ Next year we going to know how much better is SSB4.^^
And I'm happily that Pit gets improve. I want good challenges, so I hope other characters get improves too. ^^

 

[Gabe Hartzog]

I like the way Link looks in this game, but I don't like how they seem to be passing him over. I would love to see him with a better recovery, as well as faster attacks, such as the bow charge up. I would also like them to ditch the gale boomerang gimmick and the boomerang hit on the return. Or if the keep the gale boomerang, it should give Link a chance to follow up on the return, like make the opponent flinch.

 

[lint789]

I want two moves to come back from his smash 64 days. His stabbing sword dash attack and his neutral A sword stabs. They both look like better alternatives, especially for links laggy dash attack.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Unless I'm mistaken, it looks like Link's doing his two-part forward Smash in this picture. Tsk. I was hoping for the N64 leap slash to return.

 

[Rizen]

Unless I'm mistaken, it looks like Link's doing his two-part forward Smash in this picture. Tsk. I was hoping for the N64 leap slash to return.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvudMu-5kIU&feature=player_detailpage&t=78 yep.
Fsmash was one of the few things I liked about Brawl Link. It should hit behind Link more though. Ftilt is basically SSB64 Link's Fsmash.

 

[LaniusShrike]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvudMu-5kIU&feature=player_detailpage&t=78 yep.
Fsmash was one of the few things I liked about Brawl Link. It should hit behind Link more though. Ftilt is basically SSB64 Link's Fsmash.

Ah, yeah, I remember seeing that now, guess I forgot. Oh well.

I just like seeing as many moves as possible derived from the actual games, y'know?

 

[IYM!]

in the picture he is doing his jab .-.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Lunk!

That move better like it was in Melee.

 

[Veeonix]

Has anyone considered the possibility of getting a Link to the Past rendition of Link? I mean, they are making a LttP sequel aren't they? If they gave him traits from that link, then maybe he will have some potential. Just thinking of Pegasus Boots and what-not...

But as far as what he needs as a character...

Range - Perfect
Weight - Perfect
Fall Speed - Perfect

These are nice traits. What he needs, is an average of 2-5 frames less startup on most of his moves. Including his Rolls and Jumps.

Nair = -3 Frames of startup
Bair = Fine as is
Dair = Retain knockback from full attack like ZSS Down-B
U-Air = Needs to autocancel regardless of how you land it
Fair = -4 Frames, should combo itself together with both hits more accurately at mid-percents

Jab = -3 Frames. If MK has a 3 frame F-tilt that matches his jab range, the least they can do is speed up Link's Jab
F-tilt = -6 to 9 Frames. His F-Smash is fine on frame speed due to reach and knock back, but the F-tilt should out-speed it, not match it
D-tilt = -3 Frames but improve it's spike factor to always spike rather than requiring a sweet-spot
U-Tilt = Should replace his U-Smash with this animation and allow the ability to charge it.

Dash Attack = -2 Frames and leave as is, or give an updated move to match whatever rendition of Link they use

U-Smash = As mentioned, should be replaced with Link's U-tilt with the ability to charge. For his new U-tilt... they should just make a new attack
D-Smash = -2 Frames swing 1, -4 Frames back swing
F-Smash = Pretty good as is. Or make the second swing combo into itself near-guaranteed. If not, remove second swing entirely and power up first swing's knock back to match second swing

Up-B = -3 Frames grounded, retain knock back from full attack like ZSS Down. Allow charging in air to boost recovery height. Have it not force you into the fall state so you can a tether option after Up-B
Side-B = Debatable. -11 Frames if keeping the attack. If not, replace with different, modern attack
Down-B = 1/2 the cook time to allow a single bomb recovery option from a high DI (Like Snake's C4 option from Cypher). His fast fall speed will prevent him from doing this more than once most likely
B = -3 frames, but allow the 2 frame auto-cancel arrows

Front/Back Roll = -12 cool down, extend roll range 25%. Seriously short roll + 18 frame cool down? That's enough for most characters to F-Smash you
Spot-Dodge = Love this busted thing, leave as is please
Jump = -5 to 6 frames (he has one of the slowest jumps in the game) and +30 to 40% height on both jumps. Falco short hops about as high as Link's full jump

Ledge Everything = -50% of frames. Some of the worst in Brawl, it's pretty bad

Grab = Should be 6 frames at point blank range like everyone else. The 11 frame grab should refer to full length tether extension
Dash Grab = See above
Zair = Fine as is

Aerial Momentum = I don't mind the fact he doesn't move much further horizontally, assuming some of the mentions I made could be considered. Exception, Up-B should have more horizontal mobility

I think together these things would have improved his game considerably. Less cool down on some moves, carry over knock back on some moves, improved recovery and recovery options. A few moves would be more balanced with startup time, however he would remain a somewhat slow character still. It's just, he would have more practical out of shield options and more standard jump/mobility/roll/recovery etc. And while I get they were trying to make Link more of a "strong" than "fast" character, I think they took it to extremes. I think most characters should have at least a "few" reasonable options, even if they are out-classed by other characters. Mario for instance has horrible recovery and is low tier, but his frame data is pretty darn good comparatively to Links. I just want a bit of an improvement, not anything extreme. He doesn't need MK/Shiek frame data. But moving him a little closer to Pit/Marth averages wouldn't offset the game horribly or anything.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

For actual recovery distance Link's is the shortest in the game (if he's not holding a bomb). Link players say that Link recovering is 5% actual recovery and 95% DI, great weight, momentum canceling, bomb use, walling the opponent off with projectiles etc, mixups with tethers and upBs and using tactics to not be launched away like whiplash.

If people hate Brawl Link's recovery don't tell them about Smash 64 Link's Up B, worst recovery in the game imo.

 

[CardiganBoy]

I want to see an OoT alternate costume for Link, the Hero of Time is my favorite incarnation of Link; Imagine that costume in HD...

 

[Rizen]

I want to see an OoT alternate costume for Link, the Hero of Time is my favorite incarnation of Link; Imagine that costume in HD...

OoT

OoT HD

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

Unless I'm mistaken, it looks like Link's doing his two-part forward Smash in this picture. Tsk. I was hoping for the N64 leap slash to return.

Eh, they can give that Smash Attack to the smaller Link.

 

[Rizen]

By the pattern of the 'other Link' (SSB64 only Link, Melee: Link and Young Link, Brawl: Link and Toon Link...) maybe Skyward Link will be in Smash Bros 4 as the other Link.