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Link Pwns. End of Story.

bigafromusclekid

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 6, 2006
Messages
53
People just don't know what they're talking about these days. Link is definately going to be high tier, if there even is a tier list.
1. He's Fast
2. He has a friggin sword
3. He's stronger
4. Projectiles

Link can projectile spam second to pit only. His bombs pwn, and the gale boomerang is just melee's boomerang on crack-cocaine. He has a zair that's useful (Unlike Toon Link's) and he has several great kill moves.

Without L-cancel, Hurricaning out of shield is almost broken. I feel sorry for anybody that attack's Link's shield now. It kills at an easy 120%. His dair has a better feel than in melee. The naturally floatiness of the character makes the dair easier to hit by ten-fold. Not to mention that his nair and bair and now, even fair, as an offstage edgeguard pwn all unholy hell.

Play the character, people.
Link for Prez.
 

bigafromusclekid

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 6, 2006
Messages
53
I just DI up and I never have a problem with it. My recovery has yet to fail me. On top of that, bombs are a good way to get onto stage, un-harassed.
 

NeoZ

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
955
The thing is most characters have most of those things or better stuff. Most characters are good in brawl, so Link is nothing out of the ordinary.
 

tGwarr10r

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
165
Location
Staten Island, New York
link is my favorite video game character of all time, but to be honest hes not as good as i'd hoped in brawl, he's better, but IMO he's like olimar,snake and a few others, people who you actually have 2 really work at to be good with, i personally think im good with him because unless lag ****s me up i almost always win with him
 

Legan

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 7, 2007
Messages
1,427
Location
St Louis, Missouri
The thing is most characters have most of those things or better stuff. Most characters are good in brawl, so Link is nothing out of the ordinary.
Hes nothing out of the ordinary if your a nothing out of the ordinary player. Link is amazing, you just have to understand his potential.
 

Eten

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Messages
580
I agree. Link owns, because link has an extremely dominating amount of control.

His shield to defend against projectiles seems to have been buffed. If he's facing a projectile spammer, the only thing I know which can hit link is Olimar's Pikmin latch(no knockback, they just cling) and things that go under his shield, (bouncing projectiles, like Zero Suit Samus's parts, bowsers flame breath at certain angles, someone's laboriously aimed PK thunder, etc.). If he bothers to crouch, the latter is no longer true. So I'm talking about- PK fire, PK thunder, All of Samus's missiles and charge shots, Din's Fire(even when released behind or above link), Waddle Dee's, Grenades, Toon link's and other link's Arrows, bombs, and boomerangs, Bowsers and Charizards fire, Fox's, Falco's, and Wolf's lasers, Needles, Rob's laser, Peanuts, Mario and Luigi's fireballs, Zamus's defensive firearm, Kirby's Cutter, Ivysaur's leaf cutter, and Pit's Arrows. Did I miss anything?

Link and block all of those projectiles without even needing to press a shield button. That means there is no shield pressure, and 0 stun from all of those projectiles, and he can be projectile immune if he is on the ground and as soon as he stops the animation from any of his other attacks. Basically, unlike other reflectors or defensive measures against projectiles, there is no startup time involved. This implies that link *cannot* be out camped by someone else's projectiles. It forces his opponent to approach, no matter who they are.

And approaching link is a huge pain. After reflecting, dodging, rolling, and shielding, can you get past a variety of arrows, bombs, and most of all, that annoying boomerang, or if you have projectiles you *try* to time them to land when link is holding a bomb, firing an arrow, or throwing/catching his boomerang, but let me say, that is not easy, you have to deal with the disjointed, long range hitbox on that sword. None of his A moves has small or limited paths or is slow to leave a weak opening to come in on- uptilt and upsmash outranges with a disjointed hitbox any attack coming from above I can think of AND also hits a very signifcant distance behind him, his ftilt is fast and covers a large arc above him and in front of him(basically, no small guys going under an ftilt). And if link does something as simple a shield into an up-b one of your incoming attacks? It knocks you away and you have to do it all over again, just the same with any of his other moves, including is quick neutral AAA- they all have decent knockback to give you space. And even if you get accustomed to shield dashing your way in, the fact that link can grab you from a distance suddenly puts you on your toes.

That isn't to say other things of his are weak either. The above is just what is a crazy strength of his. He does not have a weakness in KOing, none of his aerials are sub-par, in fact you can argue which ones are fantastic, he's not one of the huge guys at all(Samus for example, outsizes him by a good bit), he does not have a weak dodge, roll, or airdodge, he doesn't have a weakness in laggy startup moves or lag at the end of moves, and he doesn't have weakness in ground movement speed.

His one weakness is his recovery.
In summary, link pwns, end of story.
 

Legan

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 7, 2007
Messages
1,427
Location
St Louis, Missouri
I agree. Link owns, because link has an extremely dominating amount of control.

His shield to defend against projectiles seems to have been buffed. If he's facing a projectile spammer, the only thing I know which can hit link is Olimar's Pikmin latch(no knockback, they just cling) and things that go under his shield, (bouncing projectiles, like Zero Suit Samus's parts, bowsers flame breath at certain angles, someone's laboriously aimed PK thunder, etc.). If he bothers to crouch, the latter is no longer true. So I'm talking about- PK fire, PK thunder, All of Samus's missiles and charge shots, Din's Fire(even when released behind or above link), Waddle Dee's, Grenades, Toon link's and other link's Arrows, bombs, and boomerangs, Bowsers and Charizards fire, Fox's, Falco's, and Wolf's lasers, Needles, Rob's laser, Peanuts, Mario and Luigi's fireballs, Zamus's defensive firearm, Kirby's Cutter, Ivysaur's leaf cutter, and Pit's Arrows. Did I miss anything?

Link and block all of those projectiles without even needing to press a shield button. That means there is no shield pressure, and 0 stun from all of those projectiles, and he can be projectile immune if he is on the ground and as soon as he stops the animation from any of his other attacks. Basically, unlike other reflectors or defensive measures against projectiles, there is no startup time involved. This implies that link *cannot* be out camped by someone else's projectiles. It forces his opponent to approach, no matter who they are.

And approaching link is a huge pain. After reflecting, dodging, rolling, and shielding, can you get past a variety of arrows, bombs, and most of all, that annoying boomerang, or if you have projectiles you *try* to time them to land when link is holding a bomb, firing an arrow, or throwing/catching his boomerang, but let me say, that is not easy, you have to deal with the disjointed, long range hitbox on that sword. None of his A moves has small or limited paths or is slow to leave a weak opening to come in on- uptilt and upsmash outranges with a disjointed hitbox any attack coming from above I can think of AND also hits a very signifcant distance behind him, his ftilt is fast and covers a large arc above him and in front of him(basically, no small guys going under an ftilt). And if link does something as simple a shield into an up-b one of your incoming attacks? It knocks you away and you have to do it all over again, just the same with any of his other moves, including is quick neutral AAA- they all have decent knockback to give you space. And even if you get accustomed to shield dashing your way in, the fact that link can grab you from a distance suddenly puts you on your toes.

That isn't to say other things of his are weak either. The above is just what is a crazy strength of his. He does not have a weakness in KOing, none of his aerials are sub-par, in fact you can argue which ones are fantastic, he's not one of the huge guys at all(Samus for example, outsizes him by a good bit), he does not have a weak dodge, roll, or airdodge, he doesn't have a weakness in laggy startup moves or lag at the end of moves, and he doesn't have weakness in ground movement speed.

His one weakness is his recovery.
In summary, link pwns, end of story.
^^Someone give this guy a big slice of pie for being so awesome.
 

Oddball0789

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Messages
3
Location
FL
I haven't come on here in ages, but I have a question, as a Link main in Melee.
Link seems to be mostly buffed, except maybe his sword and boomerang are less effective/powerful. How does he compare with Toon Link? Everyone seems to be going ga-ga over TL; are there any good videos of Link vs Toon Link?
 

bigafromusclekid

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 6, 2006
Messages
53
Link has better range over young link. My friend pays toon link and he can't get a hit in. I think Link is definately better. The only thing is that toon link can "link" his moves together a little better. But Link has the range, the damage, and the knockback on his side.
 

Skler

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 17, 2006
Messages
4,514
Location
On top of Milktea
Link is not top tier, and there's a good chance he's not high tier in Brawl. He lacks aerial mobility, speed and a good recovery.
 

Eten

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Messages
580
I'm not going to argue tiers, simply because there is always such a huge amount of bias involved(one group wants their favorite character high tier, the other group wants their character to be the underdog, and another whole group still think in melee terms, and the final bunch won't even gasp certain basics let alone a full amount of game knowledge to be able to make accurate claims) and underlying characteristics of what actual defines tiers anyway makes any claim questionable in this sense.

But what I am going to say is that I strongly feel that link will hold his own in brawl.
 

Terywj [태리]

Charismatic Maknae~
Joined
Aug 23, 2007
Messages
30,536
Location
香港 & 서울
I remember that guy that said Link's bair had no combo ability anymore.
I want to beat the **** out of him for telling a lie.

His bair is still godly, not to mention his hyphened usmash.
 

1Two3

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
12
Location
Texas
To put it bluntly, Link is good. I used to be awesome with him in Melee but for some reason I can't seem to get a hold of him in Brawl? I dunno what it is.(he hasn't changed that much has he?) Staying on topic, Link is a beast if you can master him. His attacks are superb (although his up + B isnt as powerful as it was in Melee IMO) and his projectiles are deadly when put to good use.
 

Skler

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 17, 2006
Messages
4,514
Location
On top of Milktea
I remember that guy that said Link's bair had no combo ability anymore.
I want to beat the **** out of him for telling a lie.

His bair is still godly, not to mention his hyphened usmash.
If your opponent DIs down and away/airdodges as soon as they can the bair will not combo, Link doesn't have enough mobility to catch an opponent after connecting with a bair because it now has increased knockback. The only way to combo with the bair is to bair into a DJed bair if your opponent DIs up and towards you or not at all. Fortunately most people DI that way to survive hits without realizing they will be comboed because of it.

Link's standing shield isn't good and certainly doesn't make the other player approach you (taking no damage from projectiles is different from being forced to approach). The other part of it saying Link is hard to approach is just silly, it's called approaching with the shield and it ***** Link's laggy ***. Link's projectiles are not hard to deal with, bombs are easy to catch, arrows are still laggy and slow (unless done while landing, butthey don't get much distance in that case) and the boomerang can actually help your opponent approach.

I'm not saying this to be rude, I just think you guys should face the facts. If you want to say I think Link sucks because I suck with him you're welcome to play me (although dittos are ********, especially in the spamfest we know as Brawl).
 

bigafromusclekid

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 6, 2006
Messages
53
I don't know. Spamming projectiles is stupid, but well-placed projectiles still screws up opponents approaches. Also, Hurricane Spin out of ship freakin' pwns metaknight. It's hilarious. Don't spam it, but if it hasn't been used a lot, it kills around 110%. Nairing of ledge and bairing off of ledge actually has enough knockback to KO. His Dair is a lot better at killing, his smashes are all good. I don't think Link sucks. There's no waveshining, everybody else is slower without L-Canceling.

Link really isn't that bulky compared to the other characters in the game. Zairing, projectiles, Hurricane out of shield, on top of all his kick-a$$ aerials, he's still a solid character, and can actually punish and pwn now.

His combo ability isn't that great, but his Boomerang isn't terrible. I just use it like I did in melee, and charge up a HS for when they get sucked in, and it usually catches them off guard.
 

Ganny

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
208
Location
Florida
His boomerang is awesome, I just got a replay I can send people about how to 'wind walk'

Wind Walking is a technique that I made up (and I think I am the first) to annoy the opponent and disorient him...

Edit: I am saving this for the 1000 dollar prize. No one gets to see yet. period.
 

St. Viers

Smash Champion
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
2,409
Location
Boston MA
Oh skler, you obviously don't know what you are talking about. Ur probably some scrub at melee who thought he was good, and now thinks he's good at brawl....

...

...

oh wait...that's every one else in the thread...never mind.

@Ganny--I'm assuming wind walking has something to do with the boomerang's new dragging property....?


Disclaimer: I don't think you are all scrubs. I just think you should post less, play more, play better people.
 

Ganny

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
208
Location
Florida
Hey, I've been collecting clips using against people on wifi and it's working out nicely. And yes, it has something to do with the dragging property
 

Kilikan

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Messages
104
He's average, no better. He's well rounded but he will never be top tier.
 

ZeldaSmasher

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20
link is my favorite video game character of all time, but to be honest hes not as good as i'd hoped in brawl, he's better, but IMO he's like olimar,snake and a few others, people who you actually have 2 really work at to be good with, i personally think im good with him because unless lag ****s me up i almost always win with him
I agree with what this guy said.
 

bigafromusclekid

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 6, 2006
Messages
53
There is no doubting that Link is hard to play, and he doesn't do well against a lot of characters, but it usually seems even when I play with my friends. I don't know why this is, or if they're just not reading me well, but it doesn't seem that bad.
 

pikachookie

KCCO<3
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
27
Location
SoCal
NNID
pandabbie
Eten said:
I agree. Link owns, because link has an extremely dominating amount of control.

His shield to defend against projectiles seems to have been buffed. If he's facing a projectile spammer, the only thing I know which can hit link is Olimar's Pikmin latch(no knockback, they just cling) and things that go under his shield, (bouncing projectiles, like Zero Suit Samus's parts, bowsers flame breath at certain angles, someone's laboriously aimed PK thunder, etc.). If he bothers to crouch, the latter is no longer true. So I'm talking about- PK fire, PK thunder, All of Samus's missiles and charge shots, Din's Fire(even when released behind or above link), Waddle Dee's, Grenades, Toon link's and other link's Arrows, bombs, and boomerangs, Bowsers and Charizards fire, Fox's, Falco's, and Wolf's lasers, Needles, Rob's laser, Peanuts, Mario and Luigi's fireballs, Zamus's defensive firearm, Kirby's Cutter, Ivysaur's leaf cutter, and Pit's Arrows. Did I miss anything?

Link and block all of those projectiles without even needing to press a shield button. That means there is no shield pressure, and 0 stun from all of those projectiles, and he can be projectile immune if he is on the ground and as soon as he stops the animation from any of his other attacks. Basically, unlike other reflectors or defensive measures against projectiles, there is no startup time involved. This implies that link *cannot* be out camped by someone else's projectiles. It forces his opponent to approach, no matter who they are.

And approaching link is a huge pain. After reflecting, dodging, rolling, and shielding, can you get past a variety of arrows, bombs, and most of all, that annoying boomerang, or if you have projectiles you *try* to time them to land when link is holding a bomb, firing an arrow, or throwing/catching his boomerang, but let me say, that is not easy, you have to deal with the disjointed, long range hitbox on that sword. None of his A moves has small or limited paths or is slow to leave a weak opening to come in on- uptilt and upsmash outranges with a disjointed hitbox any attack coming from above I can think of AND also hits a very signifcant distance behind him, his ftilt is fast and covers a large arc above him and in front of him(basically, no small guys going under an ftilt). And if link does something as simple a shield into an up-b one of your incoming attacks? It knocks you away and you have to do it all over again, just the same with any of his other moves, including is quick neutral AAA- they all have decent knockback to give you space. And even if you get accustomed to shield dashing your way in, the fact that link can grab you from a distance suddenly puts you on your toes.

That isn't to say other things of his are weak either. The above is just what is a crazy strength of his. He does not have a weakness in KOing, none of his aerials are sub-par, in fact you can argue which ones are fantastic, he's not one of the huge guys at all(Samus for example, outsizes him by a good bit), he does not have a weak dodge, roll, or airdodge, he doesn't have a weakness in laggy startup moves or lag at the end of moves, and he doesn't have weakness in ground movement speed.

His one weakness is his recovery.
In summary, link pwns, end of story.
Legan said:
^^Someone give this guy a big slice of pie for being so awesome.
lmao. Seriously. xD That was one heck of a post and it contributed a lot to this thread. It was really interesting to read, too. Good job. ^o^

But, uhm yeah. I agree that Link is a pretty average character but that doesn't mean he sucks. It mostly depends on the player, really; how that person uses him. And that goes for all other characters as well; so there really are no sucky or godly characters- Just bad/good players. However, compared to Melee, Link is a bit harder to play, so I would imagine that it would frustrate some people and believe them to think that he's a bad character, but he can still be mastered. It definately frustrates me, though; I'm a Link mainer and I'm still trying to adjust to the way he moves in Brawl but I still think he's a fantastic character. :] Another downside, though, is his DownA; I think it's a little slower and more avoidable and it leaves you open for awhile, but it seems to be a lot stronger and rewarding if you successfully hit your opponent with it. I generally think all characters have their advantages/disadvantages, but just IMO I think Link absolutely PWNs. ^o^
 

Lunar6

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
211
He's average, no better. He's well rounded but he will never be top tier.
Well, you know. There aren't enough people who know how to stress that in the right way, because they're either taking things like his speed-boost (which, overall is only slightly below average now) for granted, or are so incompensatingly negative about what he lost from Melee (the only thing that presents problems is still just his recovery) that they make it out as if they consider him a crap character. All of which is to the point that in the thrall of the praising/*****ing, they're forgetting to reach the middle ground and blatantly say what truly needs to be said. Link, in the end, is pretty much a Mario-in-Melee-Mid-Tier at best, in that he's a medium for how good or bad any of the other characters are, while he stays more well-balanced than he ever was, only he's not quite as easy to pick up an USE effectively (for one, they both have the same glaring weakness: a really sub-par recovery. But hey, it's still better than his 64 recovery or Falco's Melee recovery).

If you try to use Link as you would in Melee, then yeah, he'd feel nerfed. Alot of characters would. But having used him to a more "simplistic" extent with a playstyle that involves spamming, Neutral A combos (Link's can potentially semi-spike, actually, if you time the slashes right) and even a bit of short-hopping, I find him as a versatile, moderately balanced character, just not to a n00b-friendly extent not that he requires as strategic a playstyle as, say, Solid Snake, who I'm (Mc)Lovin' so far.
 

Mr_Mudkip

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
1
I'm not going to argue tiers, simply because there is always such a huge amount of bias involved(one group wants their favorite character high tier, the other group wants their character to be the underdog, and another whole group still think in melee terms, and the final bunch won't even gasp certain basics let alone a full amount of game knowledge to be able to make accurate claims) and underlying characteristics of what actual defines tiers anyway makes any claim questionable in this sense.

But what I am going to say is that I strongly feel that link will hold his own in brawl.

How bout the Tier be abolished altogether?
Any character can be good. You just need to work at it.

So yes, eventually you can kick *** as the ICE CLIMBERS
but very likely, not soon.
Tourney***s
 

Umby

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
3,194
Location
I'm just your problem~
Tier list arguments are dumb for the reason that there will be a tier list no matter what and for the reason that tiers don't exist for the reason anti-tiers think it exists.
 

pikachookie

KCCO<3
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
27
Location
SoCal
NNID
pandabbie
How bout the Tier be abolished altogether?
Any character can be good. You just need to work at it.

So yes, eventually you can kick *** as the ICE CLIMBERS
but very likely, not soon.

Tourney***s
lmao. Yeah! Exactly my point in my crap post earlier. xD I kept rambling on when I couldv'e just said it as simple as you did. lol. Any character can be good; there are no bad characters. ^^
 

pikachookie

KCCO<3
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
27
Location
SoCal
NNID
pandabbie
How bout the Tier be abolished altogether?
Any character can be good. You just need to work at it.

So yes, eventually you can kick *** as the ICE CLIMBERS
but very likely, not soon.

Tourney***s
lmao. Yeah! Exactly my point in my crap post earlier. xD I kept rambling on when I could've just said it as simple as you did. lol. Any character can be good; there are no bad characters. ^^

-->EDiT!!!
Can a mod please delete my post identical to this post on the second page for me? My laptop was being problamatic and caused the post to enter twice. >.< I would delete it myself, but the page is taking wayyyy too long to load everything, so idk where the delete button is; if there is one. And I just want it deleted right away before I'm accused of spamming or double-posting. >o< -Please and thank you. :]
 

Iwan

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
826
Location
Leesburg, VA
I remember that guy that said Link's bair had no combo ability anymore.
I want to beat the **** out of him for telling a lie.

His bair is still godly, not to mention his hyphened usmash.
omg...thankyou. I've been arguing this with my teammate...and now i'm gona show him this post.


bair doesn't have combo ability....
what a bunch of bull****...
lol.
 
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