Social Link checked the thread. Wow! This is a nice thread!

[DarkDeity15]

I hope you're talking about your Link documentary instead of a response to people complaining about Link needing a buff, which we haven't even seen in our social yet.

No, I meant the latter, obviously. It just seems necessary at this point with the way Nintendo balances the game. Would anyone like me to PM them a copy of it for peer review?

 

[Elessar]

No, I meant the latter, obviously. It just seems necessary at this point with the way Nintendo balances the game. Would anyone like me to PM them a copy of it for peer review?

Necessary for what? Just what do you plan to, or think will achieve with the thread?

 

[DarkDeity15]

Necessary for what? Just what do you plan to, or think will achieve with the thread?

The title speaks for itself: "Link is NOT a Brainless Spammer; How Link Should Be Seen by all Players"

If that wasn't enough, it's aimed more towards scrubs that don't know much about Link, but there is enough information to explain to the more experienced players how Link should be seen as well.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Why does it matter what others think of us?

 

[sasook]

It should be a section included in your guide.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Why does it matter what others think of us?

Because we got nerfed for no reason before because of misinformation (i.e. we got jab 1 cancel taken away from us because of what people thought of it).

It should be a section included in your guide.

Wow I don't know why I didn't think of that. Will do. Reminds me though. I still need to post that interview with you for Dumbfire.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Because we got nerfed for no reason before because of misinformation (i.e. we got jab 1 cancel taken away from us because of what people thought of it).

Makes sense. So I'm assuming you're looking to make this thread known to everyone outside of the Link Boards correct?

How do you hope to accomplish that portion?

 

[DarkDeity15]

Makes sense. So I'm assuming you're looking to make this thread known to everyone outside of the Link Boards correct?

How do you hope to accomplish that portion?

Yes. I'm hoping that maybe we can get people to see the thread by providing links under some popular Smash 4 related videos or hell, we can ask Zero to make a video about it or at least provide a link under a video he might be planning to make regarding Link's changes in 1.0.8. I'm sure he would understand our situation, and he's a huge influence in the smash community (way more of an influence then Izaw could ever hope to be, no offense to him).

I'm having second thoughts about merging this thread and the other one.

 

[KenMeister]

Yes. I'm hoping that maybe we can get people to see the thread by providing links under some popular Smash 4 related videos or hell, we can ask Zero to make a video about it or at least provide a link under a video he might be planning to make regarding Link's changes in 1.0.8. I'm sure he would understand our situation, and he's a huge influence in the smash community (way more of an influence then Izaw could ever hope to be, no offense to him).

I'm having second thoughts about merging this thread and the other one.

In that sense, wouldn't it be best to wait for for ZeRo to just post his video on his thoughts on what the buffs did for Link, and that they're not enough, much like Marcina and Falco?

 

[Rizen]

Does Zero even play Link?

 

[DarkDeity15]

In that sense, wouldn't it be best to wait for for ZeRo to just post his video on his thoughts on what the buffs did for Link, and that they're not enough, much like Marcina and Falco?

Yes, but I remember him having the wrong idea of how to buff him, saying that his projectile game should be buffed instead of his neutral game which is better for everyone.

If jab 1 can't come back, there are plenty of other ways they can buff his neutral game.

Does Zero even play Link?

I don't really think that matters, but he should have at least a rough idea of how Link is supposed to be played.

How will we contact him though...?

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Does Zero even play Link?

Zero's become the messiah of Smash 4. He knows all and sees all. His word is law and shall change Smash 4 by his own will.

 

[link7]

Zero's become the messiah of Smash 4. He knows all and sees all. His word is law and shall change Smash 4 by his own will.

Unless Cacogen beats him.

 

[Rizen]

@ DarkDeity15 your intentions are good but youtube/FG/eventhub scrubs who think Link is OP would swarm the forum like cockroaches. You can't teach people anything they don't want to learn.

 

[DarkDeity15]

@ DarkDeity15 your intentions are good but youtube/FG/eventhub scrubs who think Link is OP would spam the forum like cockroaches. You can't teach people anything they don't want to learn.

It's Zero dude. Any fool would listen to him. He's still considered the best Sm4sh player in the world after all, and he's the most popular top player ever pretty much.

 

[KenMeister]

It's Zero dude. Any fool would listen to him.

I dunno man, ZeRo has his own fair share of haters both competitive and scrubby (mostly scrubby), primarily because he mained Diddy Kong.

Honestly, I just think Link needs frame data buffs and he'd be fine. Faster jumpsquat, Melee airspeed, Melee nair (4 frame) with 4's KB, 6 frame Melee NTSC spin attack (for OoS covereage) and a 4-5 frame jab could certainly get him places.

 

[DUKEL]

I dunno man, ZeRo has his own fair share of haters both competitive and scrubby (mostly scrubby), primarily because he mained Diddy Kong.

the competitive people that don't like him don't like him because he's spread misinformation about various characters in smash 4 many times.

 

[KenMeister]

the competitive people that don't like him don't like him because he's spread misinformation about various characters in smash 4 many times.

Oh I don't doubt it, primarily when he mentioned Marth and Lucina were at least mid tier at one point....And they're not, far from it actually. Not to mention his views on how Falco should be buffed are just....No. Brawl Falco was the most cancerous thing in Brawl next to ICs and MK IMO. I was mostly referring to why scrubs hate him, which was the point I was making as to why they wouldn't entirely listen to ZeRo when mentioning theorycraft buffs.

 

[DarkDeity15]

I dunno man, ZeRo has his own fair share of haters both competitive and scrubby (mostly scrubby), primarily because he mained Diddy Kong.

Honestly, I just think Link needs frame data buffs and he'd be fine. Faster jumpsquat, Melee airspeed, Melee nair (4 frame) with 4's KB, 6 frame Melee NTSC spin attack (for OoS covereage) and a 4-5 frame jab could certainly get him places.

I don't see too many people giving him hate tbh.

the competitive people that don't like him don't like him because he's spread misinformation about various characters in smash 4 many times.

Well then maybe we can help him spread correct information for once? Maybe we can play a role in his Link 1.0.8 changes vid if he allows it.

 

[Rizen]

I have nothing against Zero but think tournament Link players like Scizor and many others here are better qualified to talk about Link.

 

[DarkDeity15]

I have nothing against Zero but think tournament Link players like Scizor and many others here are better qualified to talk about Link.

Yeah that's true, but they don't have nearly the amount of impact and publicity that Zero does in the community. Teaming up with Zero on a video would do way more good for us than bad imo.

 

[link and ike lover]

Hows everyone today?

 

[DarkDeity15]

Hows everyone today?

Who asks that on forums, let alone Smashboards?

Either way, we need to make a decision here, but not without the others having some input. In any case, we have to get this out there, otherwise Link will never get the buffs he needs in order to become legitimately viable in competitive play.

 

[ShinnyMetal]

I have nothing against Zero but think tournament Link players like Scizor and many others here are better qualified to talk about Link.

Hard to say. Yes they would know more of the ends and outs but Zer0's base level of game knowledge is nothing to scoff at (seeing as he is statistically one of the best, if not the best) . Not a lot of people who don't main Link go out of their way to talk about his need to be buffed. I think having an "outsider" who is at the top talk about Link in a positive light would do more for Link's possible buff than a niche person like scizor. People look up to Zer0 competitively more than they do any of the Link mains

 

[Zane the pure]

@ DarkDeity15 I recommend you not make a separate thread for it. If you can find a way to talk to ZeRo about elucidating on why he thinks Link should be buffed to clear the rampant hate, that'd be great. At the end of the day, scrubs will john about anything, Actually everything!

ZeRo should've clarified his opinion from the start, it would have saved him a little bit of the harassment, and he'd look better for it.
No matter who it is when making a statement or judgment on the direction of a game played by twitchy little crotch spawns (60% of the smash community's malcontent users), they will get harassed by them. They inevitably fair better when there is also a clarifying statement. If he'd said "I think Link should be buffed because X" he would have not only come off better, but it would've at least opened the window for debate and discussion rather than all the people making snap assumptions.

A certain player stated an opinion that Link is the new Diddy Kong, we jumped on him. ZeRo thinks Link should be buffed, people jumped on him. Neither had a list of proof or reason when stating such, so there was no basis for their opinions; leading to their harassment. And even if ZeRo Onii-san spoke on our behalf, it wouldn't stop the scrubs from being ignorant and blaming their losses on anything but themselves.

Try your best to contact ZeRo without making a new thread about it. If he were to make a video that explained his position, and set the pace of discussion on why Link isn't some brain-dead spam-zone breadwinner it'd be lovely. We could hang that up on the frid-er... post it in the video thread and highlight it a whole bunch. The general consensus of the Link boards as it has been for quite some time, is that we don't make threads that will go out of style. If it can't hold a continuous discussion that's longevity closely mirrors the competitive life of the game, it's better off being settled in SMASH! social, and being done with.

(And it's not like the rest of the smash community would listen to what we have to say either, when their own horribly misinformed opinion of us is that we're elitists with no sense of reason... Which, by the by is completely untrue.)
But if I were to shout from the heavens that the Link boards are actually run by reasonable people who value information and empirical data that is rigorously proven, and ask for simple responsibility from passers-by, they wouldn't be any closer to understanding that either due to the common thread of Ignorance.

 

[Linkmario00]

[quote:Rizen, post: 19616949, member: 148677"]I have nothing against Zero but think tournament Link players like Scizor and many others here are better qualified to talk about Link.[/quote]
The problem is that Scizor is known by...Link mains pretty much, so him talking about Link would be pretty useless for what we need. Everyone knows Zero instead, so for teach the world that Link is not a mindless spammer and what buffs he needs he has much more influence

 

[Dumbfire]

lol everybody in my scene who isn't some newbie realizes Link isn't the best and tells me to get a secondary for bad MUs, most complaining on that ZeRo vid is of the MY FRIEND PLAYS LINK AND STAND AT THE EDGE AND SPAMS HIS BOOMERANG WHAT DO I DO kind

 

[Lawz.]

If you guys want I could just message Zero...

Personally I don't think making a thread specifically addressing people who think Link takes no skill would help. If anything it would just be a place for those people to spam and argue about it.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

That's crazy talk. I prefer the indirect and convoluted plan.

 

[Linkmario00]

Yeah maybe an entire thread about it is too much, but for sure we have to do something about this. Just try to contact Zero for some explanation of the situation and for discussing may already be something

 

[Elessar]

I have Zero on my FB, I could also just message him. However, I don't think it'll help. All the people who think Link is OP and broken are bad, and they'll never realize how wrong they are until they improve, which they won't because they are FG warriors who only care about FG ratio.

 

[Linkmario00]

Generally, these are also the people who take what their favourite youtuber says as God' Spell. For sure contact someone won't hurt Link...I hope

 

[Warlock*G]

[inappropriate content]
Edit: aaaaawww...

 

[Koby_T]

As some have said already, I don't really think there is much that can be done about the perception of Link among the casual smash players. Zero saying something may change a few minds and may (most importantly) grab the ear of Nintendo, but the dialogue between all Link mains and any other casual player will be ultimately unchanged.

This is mostly because, fundamentally, people truly believe that they're doing their best at anything they attempt. While many players can be introspective enough to realize "I'm not the best smash player (or even good)," almost no players will say to themselves "I am not competent at this game." FG pubscrubs are assuredly **** tier in smash competence by our standards, but they themselves don't realize that. This illusion of competence makes them believe they have ground to speak on any character's viability/brokeness/worthlessness.

The other issue is pride. No one would rather say that they don't have the skillset necessary to deal with a spammy link than that Link is an unfair character. It once again comes to the "It's not my fault" that is almost instinctual. But I've rambled enough...

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Well, if everyone here thinks it is necessary enough then I guess it doesn't hurt to try to contact ZeRo. Though I doubt his video will result in Link receiving any buffs considering it's not ZeRo's game, it will at least show some of the community that Link does need some improvement...

And potentially show them all of our weaknesses...

 

[Breadloaf]

I don't think zero making a vid will make the worthless trash that is for glory players stop hating on link i do think it might help people that actually go to tourneys and study characters so i guess it wont be completely worthless for him to make a vid.

 

[ShinnyMetal]

I say that it won't hurt anything if we do. It might not do any good but it won't make things worse

 

[Himura Kenshin]

I agree, it won't hurt to be a little more vocal, just don't overdo it. I think a frame buff will do Link wonders. Making his nair, jab and grab come out a little faster would be great.

 

[Elessar]

We need safer moves, that doesn't just mean how fast they come out, but how fast we can react after the hit. Less end lag and landing lag.

However, you all are getting your hopes up over nothing. Zero won't care about what you say, neither will Sakurai. Even if zero does the video, the chances of Sakurai buffing even more Link considering that he balances are FG scrub play are infinitesimal.

 

[Dumbfire]

I don't think they'll touch up Link more; let us just hope they won't nerf him again. I can be satisfied with a reasonably competent character who requires a secondary for true competitive play, you know?