Social Link checked the thread. Wow! This is a nice thread!

[RonNewcomb]

Customs were on; why didn't he run 1211? He didn't seem to have any gale setups, unlike the up-thrown bomb setups which Meteor wouldn't work with.

 

[Siledh]

Going back to the free will discussion, much of that assumes we act on free will. Some argue that we have no free will at all and every choice we make is simply a product of our genetic coding. In which case we are no different to a robot acting within its parametres.

So really, why would we be better than the robots we create if that's true?

 

[Zelkam]

It's not guaranteed. The only thing that is close to being close to being close to being close to guaranteed is jab 2 to spin attack.

I've heard jab 2 to jab 3 is guaranteed

 

[FSK]

I've heard jab 2 to jab 3 is guaranteed

It's not

 

[DarkDeity15]

Going back to the free will discussion, much of that assumes we act on free will. Some argue that we have no free will at all and every choice we make is simply a product of our genetic coding. In which case we are no different to a robot acting within its parametres.

So really, why would we be better than the robots we create if that's true?

There's also some moral issues that come into play when creating something that has consiousness. It's like a mother giving birth to a child, who will one day become a real, fully developed person. It's definitely something we have to think about.

 

[Elessar]

Watching Avengers now (in the cinema atm) and I can see where this AI stuff comes from. Anyways, I might comment something on it later. Maybe, maybe not.

I wouldn't hold my breath though.

 

[link7]

Just got back from my tourney. Placed 3rd. With Link. Got some prize money. Feel pretty good about it.

I only placed 3rd though. Guess I didn't pivot Ftilt enough.

 

[KenMeister]

Just got back from my tourney. Placed 3rd. With Link. Got some prize money. Feel pretty good about it.

I only placed 3rd though. Guess I didn't pivot Ftilt enough.

Out of how many people? Also, congrats!

 

[link7]

Out of how many people? Also, congrats!

Nothing too big, like 15 people.

 

[zeldasmash]

Just got back from my tourney. Placed 3rd. With Link. Got some prize money. Feel pretty good about it.

I only placed 3rd though. Guess I didn't pivot Ftilt enough.

Congrats, man!

 

[Rizen]

@ link7 good work

Going back to the free will discussion, much of that assumes we act on free will. Some argue that we have no free will at all and every choice we make is simply a product of our genetic coding. In which case we are no different to a robot acting within its parametres.

So really, why would we be better than the robots we create if that's true?

If that were true we wouldn't be self destructive as individuals or a species.

My attitude is that technically it can't be proven something can't exist but that's no proof it does exist. Theoretically AI could somehow have freewill but that's never be proven. All AI ultimately is determined by programing and formulas. There is no true randomness. Interesting trivia: Final Fantasy VII speed runners manipulate enemy encounters near the end of the game by how the move around at the start of the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aPty5C68tA
People and animals are affected by chemicals in our brains and our environments but our decisions aren't mandated by these. Twins growing up in the same house will have different thought processes, preferences and ultimately take different paths in life. I'm not seeing any proof outside theory that humans or animals lack freewill.

 

[Himura Kenshin]

It's not

I REALLY wish you were just kidding, but you're right.

 

[Rizen]

That Sheik was mediocre but Tallman throwing a bomb up and dairing to stop ledge returns was a good strat I should try.

I walked a mile with my arm weights for the first time in months. My arms are sore and need to regain strength. There are several muscles that you don't realize are weak until you work out properly.

 

[DarkDeity15]

I posted a nice discussion generator in the metagame thread if anyone would like to have a look.

 

[Siledh]

@ link7 good work

If that were true we wouldn't be self destructive as individuals or a species.

My attitude is that technically it can't be proven something can't exist but that's no proof it does exist. Theoretically AI could somehow have freewill but that's never be proven. All AI ultimately is determined by programing and formulas. There is no true randomness. Interesting trivia: Final Fantasy VII speed runners manipulate enemy encounters near the end of the game by how the move around at the start of the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aPty5C68tA
People and animals are affected by chemicals in our brains and our environments but our decisions aren't mandated by these. Twins growing up in the same house will have different thought processes, preferences and ultimately take different paths in life. I'm not seeing any proof outside theory that humans or animals lack freewill.

I am not well versed in biological determinism, so I can't point you to the literature on the subject. I just know the base hypothesis.

But given how hormones and pheromones govern so much of our behaviour, and how we can use chemicals to change a person's behaviour, I can see at least some basic evidence for it.

Whether I agree with it is a different issue, but then philosophers, priests, monks and all kinds of people have been debating whether we have free will for centuries, so there are a lot of differing opinions on the matter.

 

[Rizen]

Chemicals influence behavior but that's not lack of freewill.

 

[Siledh]

Chemicals influence behavior but that's not lack of freewill.

Of course it is. Chemicals influence behaviour and limit your choices or responses to one so even if it appears that you could pick five different options, your body's genetic make-up has pretty much already determined what that will be. Or so the hypothesis goes.

Even if events in life occur which somehow change the way our body produces the various chemicals, it is still those chemicals (or absence in some cases) which determine our behaviour. [/devil's advocate]

I dislike biological determinism because at its fullest it reduces us to organic robots and it seeks to ignore things like culture which also impact our free will (unconscious racism leading people to pick white job applicants over PoC as an example).

But at the same time, Psychology has proven time and time again how things impact our choices, from marketing to phrasing to answer order or question order. When building questionnaires, there is so much to take into account because so many different things will influence the respondent's answers. So I do find the idea that we have free will somewhat flawed.

Constrained will might be a better term. I like to think we have some say in the matter, but there are a lot of hidden forces acting upon us.

 

[Rizen]

Behavior is not the same as freewill. I can be mad but not attack people because I have self control. A normal reaction to having a needle injected in me would be to eject myself from the situation but I know it's a blood test or flu shot and bear the pain. These are in direct contradiction to natural behavior and whatever chemicals and nerve signals our brains are interpreting. Again I refer to how twins can have very different personalities.

 

[Siledh]

Behavior is not the same as freewill. I can be mad but not attack people because I have self control. A normal reaction to having a needle injected in me would be to eject myself from the situation but I know it's a blood test or flu shot and bear the pain. These are in direct contradiction to natural behavior and whatever chemicals and nerve signals our brains are interpreting. Again I refer to how twins can have very different personalities.

Twins are not always the same on a genetic level, even those born from the same egg.

And behaviour is the only measurement of free will. It is a far better measurement than the personalities of twins.

But really, we're in agreement. I think biology is only part of the answer as I've said. But I do think free will doesn't exist as completely free. You might be mad, but you don't attack because you have been socialised not to. Twins are different because despite biology, they have different experiences even at home. With all the different forces acting on us, our choices are restricted down to fewer and fewer until we have very little freedom. Some, certainly, but not as many as it would appear from the outside.

 

[The Merc]

You know, with this whole thing with @ DarkDeity15 , the only thing that I got away from it was,

I though I was the only 'Kid' in this thread.

Shameless self promotion time! @ The Merc if you're interested in picking up Fox then you should check out my guide over on the Fox boards. Its far from complete, but it should be more than enough to get you started.

Okay, I'll do that. Thanks Zelkam

I mean, you could probably pick up both Fox and Falcon.
Falcon could probably cover some MU better than Fox, like Lucario for example, while Fox could cover some MU better than Falcon, like Ness.

Oh, I see. Well, another option that I could is use a character that I already play who does well against both characters.

 

[DJTHED]

I apologize for the sudden change in topic, but does anyone know why wireless controllers aren't allowed at EVO? My mom offered me to take me to EVO as sort of a gift for graduating high school this year. I got excited until I looked at the FAQ where it stated:

ARE WIRELESS CONTROLLERS/ARCADE STICKS ALLOWED?
No. Any controller that pairs with the system is not allowed. The only wireless controllers that are allowed are MadCatz wireless pads with a dongle.

I tried to find a reason as to why it wasn't allowed, but I didn't find anything.

I use the Wii U Pro Controller, and that controller is only available as a wireless controller. I would switch to the GC controller, but other than the fact that I just simply prefer the Wii U Pro Controller, the Pro Controller is absolutely essential for me to pull off certain ATs that Link has, most notably bomb slides. I've tried to do that with the GC controller, but I simple couldn't pull it off. There's also various other things that just throws me off with the GC controller, but I won't get into that right now.

Anyway, I would like to go to EVO, but I think this is a bit of a deal breaker. I at least just want to know why these controllers are banned.

 

[link7]

I apologize for the sudden change in topic, but does anyone know why wireless controllers aren't allowed at EVO? My mom offered me to take me to EVO as sort of a gift for graduating high school this year. I got excited until I looked at the FAQ where it stated:

I tried to find a reason as to why it wasn't allowed, but I didn't find anything.

I use the Wii U Pro Controller, and that controller is only available as a wireless controller. I would switch to the GC controller, but other than the fact that I just simply prefer the Wii U Pro Controller, the Pro Controller is absolutely essential for me to pull off certain ATs that Link has, most notably bomb slides. I've tried to do that with the GC controller, but I simple couldn't pull it off. There's also various other things that just throws me off with the GC controller, but I won't get into that right now.

Anyway, I would like to go to EVO, but I think this is a bit of a deal breaker. I at least just want to know why these controllers are banned.

You have to sync the pro controller to the Wii U, which takes time. Also, if you leave without un-syncing it, other players aren't able to play I believe. It's more of a time constraint and annoyance factor I guess.

 

[DJTHED]

You have to sync the pro controller to the Wii U, which takes time. Also, if you leave without un-syncing it, other players aren't able to play I believe. It's more of a time constraint and annoyance factor I guess.

Well neither of those reasons are necessarily true IMO. It took 6 or so seconds for my Pro Controller to sync with the Wii Us over at my local scene, and I can just press the red sync button on the back of the pro controller to "unplug" it from the system so that other people can play.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I thought that wireless controllers weren't allowed because of the potential for interference. E.g. by pausing mid-match when you aren't playing, whether on purpose or accidentally.

 

[Lawz.]

I thought that wireless controllers weren't allowed because of the potential for interference. E.g. by pausing mid-match when you aren't playing, whether on purpose or accidentally.

They've been allowed at every tournament I've been to.

 

[FSK]

Well neither of those reasons are necessarily true IMO. It took 6 or so seconds for my Pro Controller to sync with the Wii Us over at my local scene, and I can just press the red sync button on the back of the pro controller to "unplug" it from the system so that other people can play.

It's not necessarily true cause you are a good boy that does what he is supposed to. Imagine if 200 people were using wireless controllers at a 1000 person event and half of them are idiots running around messing everything up.

The measures are conservative because most people are not as well behaved as you are

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

They've been allowed at every tournament I've been to.

Yeah well same for me. I've only ever seen it be a problem once before where someone had their wiimote/nunchuck in their pocket or something, but even then I don't think that did anything other than mess with the menu.

 

[DJTHED]

Well if that's the reason, then perhaps they can find some sort of solution to that. Have some sort of penalty to the player with the wireless controller if they somehow pause someone else's match. It just seems silly that I feel like I can't attend because my official Nintendo controller is not allowed.

 

[8MAN]

Well if that's the reason, then perhaps they can find some sort of solution to that. Have some sort of penalty to the player with the wireless controller if they somehow pause someone else's match. It just seems silly that I feel like I can't attend because my official Nintendo controller is not allowed.

And what would these penalties be? An automatic loss or being DQ'ed? What if the player was already eliminated and was taking out their salt on other peoples matches?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

And what would these penalties be? An automatic loss or being DQ'ed? What if the player was already eliminated and was taking out their salt on other peoples matches?

Not to mention that it could be difficult to identify who it was.

In any case, I'm not ok with them disallowing controllers like that. They'll need to figure something out eventually. At some point, potentially the next smash installment, there may be no other choice but to use wireless controllers. What then?

 

[link7]

You know what an annoying feeling is? The feeling that you underperformed at a tourney because someone distracted you while you were playing a match. How do you overcome that feeling? By climbing through losers bracket to knock their ass out of the tourney.

 

[Naroghin]

You know what an annoying feeling is? The feeling that you underperformed at a tourney because someone distracted you while you were playing a match. How do you overcome that feeling? By climbing through losers bracket to knock their *** out of the tourney.

Feels great just (edit)hearing reading about it.

 

[link7]

Does anyone have any advice on how to zone out distractions? The guy was eating chips very loudly right by my ear, and headphones were unavailable.

 

[Rizen]

I disagree that "behavior is the only measurement of free will". People can consciously choose to control their behavior. The ability to make choices is free will. Even with biological and environmental influences we ultimately retain the free will to choose.

Does anyone have any advice on how to zone out distractions? The guy was eating chips very loudly right by my ear, and headphones were unavailable.

You could ask him to please stop. Bring headphone to your next tourney. Try to focus on having fun playing the game if you can.

 

[8MAN]

Do electric sheep dream of androids?

 

[Rizen]

I worked out with weights again and my arms are sore. I lost a lot of upper body strength.

Edit, these guys are annoying but this is a good video showing why I keep missing the 1 frame vulnerability of ledge grabs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnaXWfUjPTA&list=PLFXOgPi6_N5Q1AR3Z9l549HBoZzpBAz0h&index=5
The hurtbox is below the ledge.

 

[DUKEL]

I apologize for the sudden change in topic, but does anyone know why wireless controllers aren't allowed at EVO?

Are you sure? I mean Evo's making a ton of questionable choices, but I don't think that's one of them. http://evo.shoryuken.com/additional-rules/

Allowed controllers: WiiU Pro Controller & GameCube Controller.

As I said, I'm not a fan of how Evo's handling Smash 4 at all(no starters or counterpics? Really?), but i don't think they wouldn't allow a controller that's pared with the system.

Maybe you were reading this?

All wireless controllers which pair to the XBOX 360 and PlayStation 3 are banned.

 

[Zelkam]

Yeah, in that link DUKEL posted it totally says you can use a pro controller. Looks like you're gonna have to find a new excuse not to go to evo @ DJTHED

 

[FSK]

GG @ DJTHED

 

[Elessar]

As a TO, I hate wireless controllers. It takes time to sync (6 secs is a lot of time when you factor in the amount of people), and always, ALWAYS, some moron doesn't unsync his controller and messes with the Wii U, miss no around so you can't start the match. And it's impossible to know who is it so they always get away with it.

If I could, I'd also ban them in a heartbeat.