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Zerker

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Have any of you seen Abadango's new tier list?



I know Link is not high tier material, but second worst in the game?
Pffft.


Here we go again.

Jab 1 was essentially Link's best tech that he had left. And his only real reliable combo. (Outside of normal jab combo, but who the hell counts that ever?)
 
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Elessar

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Have any of you seen Abadango's new tier list?



I know Link is not high tier material, but second worst in the game?
A tier list by another exclusive user of top chars that doesn't truly understand half the roster in the game. That being said, we can sit and moan all day as it happened in brawl and it'll do Link no good. Go and Rep him, place with him, and let your actions talk.
 

DJTHED

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Have any of you seen Abadango's new tier list?



I know Link is not high tier material, but second worst in the game?
This list is garbage.

...
That's all I got to say.
 

Zane the pure

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Based off of what Abodango has probably seen of Link up to this point I'd color the placement relatively unsurprising.
Most people will not know how good/bad Link is because most people are not willing to put in the amount of effort it takes for him to win matches that other characters (especially C.Falcon) can win in 5 nearly-forced read situations.

I generally appreciate tierlists in most competitive fighting games because they're a fairly strong showing of what character has the easiest time winning. It's much easier to steal a win as Ganondorf (with a few smart reads and the off lucky spike here and there) that it is to methodically condition and zone the opponent and create openings for Link to capitalize on without too much risk. That much is true even in Brawl despite being Gannon-tier.

Understand that winning with Link means you really had to outplay your opponent, not even signifying that you're better than them, but that you had to input and finagle a lot more than pretty much any other character in the game.
 

KenMeister

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Have any of you seen Abadango's new tier list?



I know Link is not high tier material, but second worst in the game?
I feel Link should at least be C material, and at most B-. This list is bull, with Samus, Char and Lucina over Lunk. ptttthhh.
 

ama99

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Have any of you seen Abadango's new tier list?



I know Link is not high tier material, but second worst in the game?
Pikachu in B-, funny

Link is at least top of D.

This list should have been 100% disregarded the second gay showed up ahead of Pika.
 
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A_Phoenix_Down

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Yeaaah I'm calling high-D low-C.

That tier list shows what characters he likes/uses the most.

Like Zane said, everyone goes for the easier characters to win, therefore making them better than Link. Nobody wants to put some work in and win with Link.
 
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KenMeister

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Like, Link actually has a relatively decent neutral that 35% of the cast doesn't have, why the hell is he listed as bottom tier?
 

The Merc

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Lucina is actually garbage though. That I don't disagree with. There LOTS of other things I can disagree with.
I don't think Lucina is garbage. Though I could just be bias because of my Awakening fandom.
 

zeldasmash

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I don't think Lucina is garbage. Though I could just be bias because of my Awakening fandom.
Fire Emblem Awakening is one of my favorite games of all time, but i still think Lucina is one of the worst in the game. She just gets so outclassed by Marth (who isn't that good to begin with) to the point where you ask: "Why use her when Marth is everything she is, but better". It's a shame too because i do like Lucina as a character (I prefer Chrom a lot more, but still, she is a really good character).
 

8MAN

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All the more satisfaction, when you stomp on somebody with your "bottom tier" Link.
 

KenMeister

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I don't think Lucina is garbage. Though I could just be bias because of my Awakening fandom.
Horrible neutral game, laggy moves in general (bad endlag on nearly everything), difficulty getting good combos and kills, and lacks a good midrange in general. (sure she has shieldbreaker and fair, but her air speed, landing lag and laggy moves in general just ruin it all-together)
 
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Elessar

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The fact that I sincerely wish Lucina was an alt skin to Marth as the Koopalings are to Bowser Jr is a testament of what a waste as a character she is.
 

FierceGaiety

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Same, but also with Dark Pit and Dr. Mario. AND TOON LINK. The game only needs one Link. Pick one and mash together all the best parts about both characters and end up with one decent one.
 

zeldasmash

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The fact that I sincerely wish Lucina was an alt skin to Marth as the Koopalings are to Bowser Jr is a testament of what a waste as a character she is.
Same, but also with Dark Pit and Dr. Mario. AND TOON LINK. The game only needs one Link. Pick one and mash together all the best parts about both characters and end up with one decent one.
I agree with you both. I like Lucina in Awakening, but as a Smash fighter, she is a waste of a character slot as she is right now. Lucy, Dr. Mario, Dark Pit & Gay are wastes of space and 3/4 could have been alternate costumes and still be IN the game as playable characters while the other, in my opinion, is probably the worst addition to the Smash roster and has no business being here (Ghirahim, Midna, Zant, Skull Kid, Impa, so many options, yet they went with an unnecessary Link double? Seriously?).

Lucina could have had her own moveset though, which is why i'm so upset with her inclusion as the cloniest character in the entire Smash series (she makes Roy look completely unique by comparison). I hope for the next game, she gets either a revamp or be an alternate costume. If they can't with neither of the above, then kick her out and replace her with a more worthy entry in the series from either Awakening, Shadow Dragon, Path of Radiance or any of the other Fire Emblem games (hopefully one from Fire Emblem If)
 

Huggles828

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I play as Lucina a good bit. Mostly because she's manlier than Marth :awesome: She does suck though.

The thing about Link's tier list placement is that he's got one of the steepest learning curves in the whole game; his play style is so unique. I like to think I'm pretty good at this game; give me a couple hours and for the most part I can pick up a character and put up a reasonable showing with them, even against good players. That ain't happening if someone tries to just pick up Link. You have to learn to play him completely differently. That, combined with the fact that there are very few legitimately good Link mains, means that he gets underrated because top players play against Links who aren't even using him right, and assume that's how he's supposed to work and he just sucks. Now, not to say Link is a really good character in this game (he's not, especially after our nerf), but he's not second worst in the game.
 

IsmaR

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Hey but Samus isn't bad this time around. Her recovery is the bomb.

see what i did there?
I think what they meant was Samus/Link being (usually) worse off balance/placement-wise than ZSS/Toon Link.

With it making little sense for Samus in particular since the game is basically saying "oh this Power Suit/all these weapons actually make her worse"
 

DUKEL

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I'm just waiting for a tier list to come out where Link is higher than Gay.

Once you take into account his ATs, superior neutral and edge guarding, not to mention his excellent tilts and range, I really don't understand how Gay can be above us.
I think what they meant was Samus/Link being (usually) worse off balance/placement-wise than ZSS/Toon Link.

With it making little sense for Samus in particular since the game is basically saying "oh this Power Suit/all these weapons actually make her worse"
Apparently an older link is unable to jump and run, and extra armor and weapons only makes you weaker. This game's logic, man.
 

Zane the pure

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Fire Emblem Awakening is one of my favorite games of all time, but i still think Lucina is one of the worst in the game. She just gets so outclassed by Marth (who isn't that good to begin with) to the point where you ask: "Why use her when Marth is everything she is, but better". It's a shame too because i do like Lucina as a character (I prefer Chrom a lot more, but still, she is a really good character).
The only thing Lucina has over Marth is that the super unsafe short-hop U-air is easier to combo since theres no tip to increase the hitlag so Lucina can continue easier. (And with proper positioning Marth can do it just fine anyways)

Of course you do realize now Lucina is Link's waifu... She's in the exact same position that Link was in for Brawl, outclassed in nearly every regard to a superior less manly version of themself. Cool, powerful, and good-natured? Yes, but manly Marth is not. Lucina is almost certainly more manly than him.

Marth's personality is actually kind of a bleeding heart, for those of you who haven't experienced his character outside of smash.
He's a very heartful person with an abundance of caring and empathy for basically everything under the sun which makes his stoic demeanor in Smash kinda unusual. He's even a tad bit boastful in smash whereas the only signs of steel in his persona per FE was in wartime command, and negotiating with the neighboring countries to assist him in reclaiming his homeland.

Meanwhile Link is over in the corner observing everyone's dysfunction thinking, "Y'all fools need Hylia"

Also, where the hell is Link's walljump man???????? He's as spry as his child self ever was if not 2x as much, where's our neato ledge options huh Sakurai?
 
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The Merc

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Fire Emblem Awakening is one of my favorite games of all time, but i still think Lucina is one of the worst in the game. She just gets so outclassed by Marth (who isn't that good to begin with) to the point where you ask: "Why use her when Marth is everything she is, but better". It's a shame too because i do like Lucina as a character (I prefer Chrom a lot more, but still, she is a really good character).
Uh, because I suck at landing Marth's Tips?

Horrible neutral game, laggy moves in general (bad endlag on nearly everything), difficulty getting good combos and kills, and lacks a good midrange in general. (sure she has shieldbreaker and fair, but her air speed, landing lag and laggy moves in general just ruin it all-together)
Bad air speed? She has better air speed than Robin. Though I do agree with you about the endlag on her moves.

The fact that I sincerely wish Lucina was an alt skin to Marth as the Koopalings are to Bowser Jr is a testament of what a waste as a character she is.
This some what breaks my heart. Though the good news is that since she is a character in Smash, it give her an opportunity to be Luigified in the next Smash or if someone decides to Mod Sm4sh.
Lucina could have had her own moveset though, which is why i'm so upset with her inclusion as the cloniest character in the entire Smash series (she makes Roy look completely unique by comparison). I hope for the next game, she gets either a revamp or be an alternate costume. If they can't with neither of the above, then kick her out and replace her with a more worthy entry in the series from either Awakening, Shadow Dragon, Path of Radiance or any of the other Fire Emblem games (hopefully one from Fire Emblem If)
^This basically.

Same, but also with Dark Pit and Dr. Mario. AND TOON LINK.
Toon Link an Alt? How? they have every different character models.

The game only needs one Link. Pick one and mash together all the best parts about both characters and end up with one decent one.
I personal think that smash actually needs to Links. One hard heavy hitter and a lighter speed one. They just need to do it better than what they got. Something like Fox and Falco or Mario and Luigi.

I agree with you both. I like Lucina in Awakening, but as a Smash fighter, she is a waste of a character slot as she is right now. Lucy, Dr. Mario, Dark Pit & Gay are wastes of space and 3/4 could have been alternate costumes and still be IN the game as playable characters while the other, in my opinion, is probably the worst addition to the Smash roster and has no business being here (Ghirahim, Midna, Zant, Skull Kid, Impa, so many options, yet they went with an unnecessary Link double? Seriously?).
Don't forget Young Link.
 

Elessar

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I think what they meant was Samus/Link being (usually) worse off balance/placement-wise than ZSS/Toon Link.

With it making little sense for Samus in particular since the game is basically saying "oh this Power Suit/all these weapons actually make her worse"
But didn't you hear? Sakurai is an amazing dev and all of his choices cannot be questioned. All the characters are completely true to their appearances in their games, so of course a futuristic space bounty hunter riding the most advanced piece of war exoskeleton/armor suit will be worse than the same character dressed in blue spandex.

I'm just waiting for a tier list to come out where Link is higher than Gay.

Once you take into account his ATs, superior neutral and edge guarding, not to mention his excellent tilts and range, I really don't understand how Gay can be above us.

Apparently an older link is unable to jump and run, and extra armor and weapons only makes you weaker. This game's logic, man.
Every reddit tier list has placed Link higher than Gay.
 

Zane the pure

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But didn't you hear? Sakurai is an amazing dev and all of his choices cannot be questioned. All the characters are completely true to their appearances in their games, so of course a futuristic space bounty hunter riding the most advanced piece of war exoskeleton/armor suit will be worse than the same character dressed in blue spandex.
Especially when Nintendo was under suspicion that PS Samus would be the top character lol. They were dangerously close to considering DK and Samus to being over powered... and wondered if Link's D-air spike would make him too good...........
 

Elessar

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Especially when Nintendo was under suspicion that PS Samus would be the top character lol. They were dangerously close to considering DK and Samus to being over powered... and wondered if Link's D-air spike would make him too good...........
Further evidence that Sakurai understands perfectly his own game. I mean, samus is an extremely floaty slow character with average to bad kill potential and has the worst Jab in the game. She is clearly OP and in no need for any buffs at all.
 

A_Phoenix_Down

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Unfortunately we play a game where the devs barely understand their own mechanics... Link suffers due to this because Link's versatility on For Glory destroys people who barely understand the game at its core. Therefore changes are made which are actually pretty viable (on For Glory), but makes him suffer in the competitive scene.

In all actuality, Link is pretty good in For Glory. But that obviously doesn't say much at all.
 

BaPTraPLaP

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Unfortunately we play a game where the devs barely understand their own mechanics... Link suffers due to this because Link's versatility on For Glory destroys people who barely understand the game at its core. Therefore changes are made which are actually pretty viable (on For Glory), but makes him suffer in the competitive scene.

In all actuality, Link is pretty good in For Glory. But that obviously doesn't say much at all.
Well you must remember according to the developers For Glory IS the competitive scene. The place for the "hardcore" players to play "competitively". No platforms, no items, one stage, and lag; that is where the serious players go.
 

KenMeister

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Ya' know, given how horrible the playerbase is for For Glory (personality and playstyle-wise), I would be completely okay if it got scrapped all-together, if only to avoid any further nerfs. People who really want to adapt should be doing it at local friendlies, not on a lag-riddled mess of a online mode.
 
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