Social Link checked the thread. Wow! This is a nice thread!

[KenMeister]

So I was looking up the R.O.B easter egg in Majora's Mask 3D and came across this masterpiece.

I'm on mobile so that's why the pictures like that.

Sounds about as bizarre as Bayonetta's "ending".

 

[The Merc]

So I was looking up the R.O.B easter egg in Majora's Mask 3D and came across this masterpiece.

I'm on mobile so that's why the pictures like that.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. OH. MY SIDES .

O, I love Game Theory.

 

[Rizen]

Consider this your warning.

Didn't the warning come a long time ago?

I played Samus on my quest to get all classic and all star trophies. She's a terrible character. I admit to not knowing how to use her but her kill potential is abysmal and chaining isn't good either.

MM's ending is pretty bizarre without all the made up stuff.

 

[incrediblej]

Didn't the warning come a long time ago?

I played Samus on my quest to get all classic and all star trophies. She's a terrible character. I admit to not knowing how to use her but her kill potential is abysmal and chaining isn't good either.

MM's ending is pretty bizarre without all the made up stuff.

Soneone on the competitive impressions knows how to use samus and says she takes practice to get good with her

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Didn't the warning come a long time ago?

Wait really? If you can link me to it then this will all be made much easier. (Do I really want to go through pages 5 to 10? Please tell me the warning isn't lost in there somewhere.)

Edit: Ok I had a skim through and I didn't see any warning. Did Scabe PM him or something back when he was mod?

 

[kxiong92]

Didn't the warning come a long time ago?

I played Samus on my quest to get all classic and all star trophies. She's a terrible character. I admit to not knowing how to use her but her kill potential is abysmal and chaining isn't good either.

MM's ending is pretty bizarre without all the made up stuff.

Samus is not that bad. It just takes a lot of practice. She has some good combos out of dthrow. Her UpB OoS is pretty good.

 

[KenMeister]

I'd like to say that Samus is pretty terrible, if not one of the worst characters in the game, but if you go to the Samus boards, you'll see she has surprisingly above-average tournament results.

 

[Onomanic]

Zair is my antidrug Kreygasm

 

[link7]

I played Samus on my quest to get all classic and all star trophies. She's a terrible character. I admit to not knowing how to use her but her kill potential is abysmal and chaining isn't good either.

I actually have problems fighting good Samus's.

 

[Dumbfire]

I playd a Samus quite a bit at a smashfest. 'Twas pretty even, I wouldn't say the match-up is gravely slanted towards either side.

 

[Zelkam]

@ Fox Is Openly Deceptive I don't think he's ever received a warning, but after being this way for over a year (http://smashboards.com/threads/le-lazy-lurking-links-listen-laugh-lounge-♪-。.254551/page-155) I don't think he's ever gonna get better.

 

[Onomanic]

RIP Brawl boards we had a lot of good times on there.

 

[The Merc]

RIP Brawl boards we had a lot of good times on there.

Wait, what is happening to the brawl threads?

 

[Rizen]

Wait, what is happening to the brawl threads?

No one plays Brawl anymore or posts there.

I think good Samus players can probably be a force to be reckoned with but also think she is a bad character. Even bad characters should be respected (says the person who used Link in Brawl ).

 

[link and ike lover]

Amazing but people still play SSBB online.
I was just messing around with brawl and haven't played ssbb in 6 months lol.
Found someone in Basic Brawl lol.

R.I.P Brawl!

The memories will live on forever

 

[The Merc]

No one plays Brawl anymore or posts there.

I think good Samus players can probably be a force to be reckoned with but also think she is a bad character. Even bad characters should be respected (says the person who used Link in Brawl ).

So they are being shut down? Aw, that seem really sad.

Amazing but people still play SSBB online.
I was just messing around with brawl and haven't played ssbb in 6 months lol.
Found someone in Basic Brawl lol.

R.I.P Brawl!

The memories will live on forever

We should pay tribute to Brawl, for all the good and bay memories it brought.

Goodbye brawl! I will always remember as my first smash game!

 

[link and ike lover]

So they are being shut down? Aw, that seem really sad.



We should pay tribute to Brawl, for all the good and bay memories it brought.

Goodbye brawl! I will always remember as my first smash game!

The best way to say goodbye is to never forget about it.

 

[Elessar]

The memories will live on forever

Not all enduring memories are good nor desirable memories.

 

[_Relapse_]

edited post

 

[Elessar]

edited post

Why did you edit your post? You can ask people to play. Just talk via PM once your matches being, or else head to the xat to find people there:

http://xat.com/LinkSmashers

 

[_Relapse_]

Why did you edit your post? You can ask people to play. Just talk via PM once your matches being, or else head to the xat to find people there:

http://xat.com/LinkSmashers

I didn't want to play anymore and couldn't find the delete button. Thanks for the Link the the chat. The one I had before was dead ( http://xat.com/Smash4LinkCommunity)

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

@ Fox Is Openly Deceptive I don't think he's ever received a warning, but after being this way for over a year (http://smashboards.com/threads/le-lazy-lurking-links-listen-laugh-lounge-♪-。.254551/page-155) I don't think he's ever gonna get better.

*looks through a few pages of the conversation linked*
****ing hell. I'm so sorry you had to put up with this stupidity for so long without a dedicated moderator. Well now you have two.

 

[Rizen]

Anyway, here's some interesting statistics on SSB4 tourney results:
http://www.goldper10.com/article/886-the-state-of-sm4sh-every-king-deserves-a-queen.html
Link needs more rep. The results are much more character diverse than Brawl and other smash games.
At least Link has the post popular amiibo
http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/02...os-by-country?abthid=54e2c73ee4ba87c74600002a

Edit, weird thing: after the battle if you hit master core with attacks that damage but don't launch it grows more red. eventually it will float up in the air and explode on its own destroying one of your stocks. Fortunately I had 2 and won.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Well in comparison to melee... they do suck and they aren't competitive enough. Especially Brawl, it's like Mario party but with less skill involved.

I'm personally not a fan of melee. Far too spammy and fast. Melee is tailored to the Fox users and all of the fast characters (hence why that's all u ever see in tournaments). Don't see much skill in jumping around as fast as possible to win.

Kind of reminds me of Call of Duty vs Battlefield. One is "competitive" because it's all about speed during gun fights, while the other is supposedly "less competitive" because it takes timing and skill to win.

This game certainly got the speed down just right. The rolling is definitely more powerful but I've learned to adapt and just swing my sword at where ever they roll to. They still have a slight moment of vulnerability right as they roll and immediately after they roll. Plus with Links Dsmash it's almost a sure hit on a roll.

 

[Vonzar the Soulrender]

I'm personally not a fan of melee. Far too spammy and fast. Melee is tailored to the Fox users and all of the fast characters (hence why that's all u ever see in tournaments). Don't see much skill in jumping around as fast as possible to win.

Kind of reminds me of Call of Duty vs Battlefield. One is "competitive" because it's all about speed during gun fights, while the other is supposedly "less competitive" because it takes timing and skill to win.

This game certainly got the speed down just right. The rolling is definitely more powerful but I've learned to adapt and just swing my sword at where ever they roll to. They still have a slight moment of vulnerability right as they roll and immediately after they roll. Plus with Links Dsmash it's almost a sure hit on a roll.

The difference is that Melee takes both faster reaction times and more skill/techskill to play. I can't really speak for the shooting games you mentioned, the last shooter I took anywhere near seriously was Perfect Dark on N64. The reason I think that Melee in it's mechanics is much better than either Brawl or Smash4 is the risk and reward factors involved in attacking and defending. Rather, using aggressive options versus using defensive options. In brawl, this was completely skewed but in Smash4 it's been toned down a lot. However Smash4's defensive options still have much better rewards than it's offensive options, barring maybe two or three characters who seem to have both balanced, mostly due to fast attacks with little recovery time or very good disjointed hitboxes, maybe both. I will say that the character roster is much better balanced than any before it but it's the mechanics that cause the problem.

When a character performs a hard hitting smash attack there should be some shieldstun and just as important some push against the character shielding, this creates a situation where attacking shields can put one at a disadvantage but does not lead to a punish nearly every time, means being more aggressive doesn't entirely put you in bad situations. Rolls have been overcompensated for and now IMO are too good. A lot of invincibility and being able to act immediately right out of a roll, along with the fact that rolls go so far now cause an even greater problem than people believe wavedashing did. Now it takes no skill to slide all around the stage, but you are invincible for most of the time doing it. Yes I know good players will punish this, but that goes for any tactic in the game. The lack of shieldstun and knockback from attacks while shielding means that characters like Link can have half their moveset negated because not only do the other characters suffer no problems just running in and shielding, then punishing you for have the audacity to use a B move, but then powershielding is so ridiculously easy that now they can move in after any projectile even faster than before.

This is not to say there is no shield pressure in the game, but merely that rewards for defensive options outweigh rewards for offensive options(or projectiles in general), which is especially true for faster characters who seem like they are being aggressive but really just have the ability to punish better than anyone else.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

The difference is that Melee takes both faster reaction times and more skill/techskill to play. I can't really speak for the shooting games you mentioned, the last shooter I took anywhere near seriously was Perfect Dark on N64. The reason I think that Melee in it's mechanics is much better than either Brawl or Smash4 is the risk and reward factors involved in attacking and defending. Rather, using aggressive options versus using defensive options. In brawl, this was completely skewed but in Smash4 it's been toned down a lot. However Smash4's defensive options still have much better rewards than it's offensive options, barring maybe two or three characters who seem to have both balanced, mostly due to fast attacks with little recovery time or very good disjointed hitboxes, maybe both. I will say that the character roster is much better balanced than any before it but it's the mechanics that cause the problem.

When a character performs a hard hitting smash attack there should be some shieldstun and just as important some push against the character shielding, this creates a situation where attacking shields can put one at a disadvantage but does not lead to a punish nearly every time, means being more aggressive doesn't entirely put you in bad situations. Rolls have been overcompensated for and now IMO are too good. A lot of invincibility and being able to act immediately right out of a roll, along with the fact that rolls go so far now cause an even greater problem than people believe wavedashing did. Now it takes no skill to slide all around the stage, but you are invincible for most of the time doing it. Yes I know good players will punish this, but that goes for any tactic in the game. The lack of shieldstun and knockback from attacks while shielding means that characters like Link can have half their moveset negated because not only do the other characters suffer no problems just running in and shielding, then punishing you for have the audacity to use a B move, but then powershielding is so ridiculously easy that now they can move in after any projectile even faster than before.

This is not to say there is no shield pressure in the game, but merely that rewards for defensive options outweigh rewards for offensive options(or projectiles in general), which is especially true for faster characters who seem like they are being aggressive but really just have the ability to punish better than anyone else.

Sorry, wasn't trying to bring in a shooter as an example but the core idea I was getting at was speed vs timing. As you have said, the defensive options do, in some cases, trump the offensive options unfortunately. Perhaps instead of shield stun they could add higher shield push on hits.

As it stands, I do still prefer Smash 4 over Melee. The balance in this game is incredible (which I believe is actually due to some of the game's mechanics).The characters are going to have a much tighter grouping when it comes to tier placements. Obviously there is a few that stand out above all else but in a game of 48 characters, that's to be expected. Regardless, it's very impressive that there's only a few "elite" characters. This game allows the average to slow speed characters to stand a chance in a game that, at one point, was dominated by the fastest characters. For instance, refer to Bowser from Melee and look at him in Smash 4 (unless I'm one of the few that find Bowser good). Or look at Marth and Fox from Melee to now. They're becoming less dominant. Now at some point, top tier will probably consist of characters that have trapping effects and other gimmicks that are somewhat overpowered and Rosaluma... which seems about right.

At some point the rolling will get old, people will catch on, and will be able to excecute accordingly. This game is still very much in its premature times. I feel if at some point, we find a way around seemingly powerful mechanics (like we already have with seemingly powerful characters), this game will be much closer to perfection.

 

[Huggles828]

I liked Brawl a lot, but it's just completely outclassed by Smash 4 imo; Smash 4 is like the game Brawl wanted to be (plus it's in HD now!). Losing to players who weren't as good as me because they used MK, D3, or Falco also sucked a lot. So yeah, I haven't even touched it since Smash 4 came out, and probably won't for a long time.

It's definitely different from Melee. Frankly the biggest obstacle to me playing Melee more are needing a pretty dedicated setup and room for it (CRT TV, GC, finding another copy of Melee). Melee is a great competitive game though.

 

[Vonzar the Soulrender]

Sorry, wasn't trying to bring in a shooter as an example but the core idea I was getting at was speed vs timing. As you have said, the defensive options do, in some cases, trump the offensive options unfortunately. Perhaps instead of shield stun they could add higher shield push on hits.

As it stands, I do still prefer Smash 4 over Melee. The balance in this game is incredible (which I believe is actually due to some of the game's mechanics).The characters are going to have a much tighter grouping when it comes to tier placements. Obviously there is a few that stand out above all else but in a game of 48 characters, that's to be expected. Regardless, it's very impressive that there's only a few "elite" characters. This game allows the average to slow speed characters to stand a chance in a game that, at one point, was dominated by the fastest characters. For instance, refer to Bowser from Melee and look at him in Smash 4 (unless I'm one of the few that find Bowser good). Or look at Marth and Fox from Melee to now. They're becoming less dominant.

At some point the rolling will get old, people will catch on, and will be able to excecute accordingly. This game is still very much in its premature times. I feel if at some point, we find a way around seemingly powerful mechanics (like we already have with seemingly powerful characters), this game will be much closer to perfection.

If the core idea was speed vs timing then this example really does not apply at all. See Melee's speed is more about the speed of the player than even the speed of the characters, which of course bleeds into timing. In Smash4 because of a thing called "Buffering", when you signal an action, your character will just do the action on the first available frame, this essentially gives you a 10 frame grace period for any action you want to take, ever. Melee on the other hand does not have buffering and so if you want an action to happen on the very first frame it's available, you have to time it perfectly or face some very serious punishes. So Melee is both a faster game and requires better timing than Smash4.

Of course you prefer Smash4, it's the easier game to play and the last time you played Melee was probably in the year of our Lord Two Thousand and Two. Again in talking about which characters are top tier viable in Melee you obviously don't know what you're talking about. First, in Melee top tier is made up of eight characters which for a game of 25(26) characters, means that just over 30% of the cast is considered to be top tier. Of this eight, four are not speedsters. This includes Falco, Jigglypuff, Peach, and Ice Climbers(possibly Marth also). Yes they have combos that must be done very quickly, but that applies to every character in the game. It's nice to say oh look at x character and how they now perform in y game. This however has nothing to do with an argument about speed or timing. Mechanically one game is superior to another, regardless of how your favorite character performs in each game.

People have already caught on and rolls can be punished accordingly, the problem is that it is much harder to punish them than before and because of how quickly one recovers from a roll, the roll has a lot of value for very little risk. The only thing we lack in knowledge of the game is how to make the best of certain characters. The mechanics of the game are not deep enough that they haven't already been completely explored. This is not Melee at the start of it's competitive phase, this community has years of delving into a game's inner workings and we know how to find what we're looking for when it comes to mechanics. This game's mechanics will be completely explored by the end of this year if it hasn't reached that already. You're looking for depth in a shallow pool.

Two things here and they are for you and not an argument about the games. The first thing is that while I do appreciate that you are willing to defend your game, it's obvious that you don't know much about Melee at all. The second thing is that you don't have to defend this game to me. I enjoy Smash4 and because of certain restrictions, I play it much more often than I play Melee.

 

[link7]

So it's the general agreement that people still like Melee over Smash 4. Me, I like all the games equally, with the exception of Brawl. I've been playing Smash 4 more often in tourneys than I have Melee since it's come out, but I'm hoping to learn how to handle muscle memory and being able to play both games equally well.

Now here's another question. Is Melee Link better than 4 Link? From playing both games side by side, I feel like 4 Link is superior to Melee Link in some fashions.

Link Buffs:
Shorter timer on Bombs/Bombs can be planted on the ground easier
WAY better recovery (ie higher DJ and higher trajectory on Spin Attack and Clawshot extends a third of the FD stage when recovering, plus bomb recovery is way better)
More mobility
Safer smashes (Dsmash and Usmash)
A situational spike.
More reliable tilts.
Jab Cancel Lock exists
Zair is more useful
Bow is better


Nerfs:
Spin Attack lacks the killing power Melee has, and the semi spike.
Dair lacks killing power unless used for spiking.
While the Clawshot can grab the actual ledge, it can't grab walls, or objects under the stage.
Nair ending lag isn't as long.
Down throw to Up B is no longer an option.

Still the same:
Link is still a heavy character, and can still be juggled easier than some characters.
Boomerang and bomb pulls still have ending lag.
Missed grabs are still very punishable.

This is a bare bones comparison. The lack of killing power in the spin attack and Dair does hurt him slightly, but if you placed 4 Link into Melee, I think he'd be represented more than he is.

Your thoughts?

 

[Zane the pure]

Watch any competent melee player's hands during a match, and you'll know well why they regard it as more technical.
The hang up I've had with Melee fans since the day Brawl wasn't Melee 2.0 (READ:some not all) is the absolute dismissal of everything else.
Melee is best competitive smash, we get that, and very few reasonable people (who know anything about Melee) would debate that (especially any with FGC experience).

But hear me out cause Melee is also quite imbalanced, and any tournament results this side of the decade will tell you who's the dominant characters. Brawl is slower and more defensive, and Melee fans didn't like the reduction of combos and removal of certain tech. Brawl has it's own tech regarding glide tossing, Z-edge shenanigans, DACUS, ZAC aerials and more, and though it too is laughably imbalanced, it had an interesting enough metagame to be played worldwide for several years.

Smash 4 is similarly slower than Melee with fewer combos/tech/etc, but is faster than Brawl with greater hitstun, more combos, and for the time being less tech than brawl. The balance job in this game is up in the air due to it's youth and inexperience, but starting out it feels fairly obvious that fewer characters outright suck in this game. I agree Shields and rolls are too good right now, and the best thing for Smash4's metagame in the long run is to nerf em and bring some gusto back to the rushdown game. But to dismiss the games depth as a year long effort sounds childish, like counting eggs before they hatch. Aren't people still refining Smash64? granted it's much older and has been explored even more in depth than melee due to it's age, and does that make it a better game? Nope, melee still best smash. Not to mention Smash64 has the exact opposite problems to smash 4 having far too much shieldstun and combos literally ending a stock from 0% with every character minus Samus.

Still I appreciate your Input @ Vonzar the Soulrender as a longtime melee player/fan/enthusiast as well as your comparative knowledge of Smash4, and though I disagree with the notion of the game's depth, you are completely right about everything else.

[EDIT] Holy crap, I took a look at all the spam threads that have been locked even still on the first page. My reaction?

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

@ Vonzar the Soulrender I was never arguing about Melee's competitiveness. However, you seem to be throwing Smash 4 out the door without taking a look inside. What you have shown me are mechanics that have already been spotted, such as the "buffering". If new things, good or bad, have been found within a game, don't you believe there's more to see?

You also cannot deny that there are a certain characters that are practically required to win in tourneys. They just had a huge thing on the boards about the fact that a certain Yoshi user has taken a stand in tourneys. Why? Because Tournaments usually consist of Fox, Falco, Marth, etc. Not that it's a bad thing. They are the best characters, afterall. I mean how many times do you see Fox dittos as opposed to Link dittos?

I do know much about Melee though it has been while since I've been personally involved so you've actually jogged my memory on a few things. I've watched and been to many tourney's and have done extensive research on Melee. But I also know very less about Smash 4. Everyone does. Why? Because Smash 4 has just released itself to the world. We have had several years of Melee to delve deep into what it has to offer, so why is it wrong to do the same with Smash 4? To throw it off as "shallow water" is extremely ignorant and blind.

Again, i do agree with some of your points. However, now the argument has turned bias. So I will leave it at that.

 

[Rizen]

I don't think the shorter bomb fuses are a buff. They aid recoveries but that's not needed in SSB4. Holding a bomb was very advantageous and bombs don't pull quickly. Overall bombs were buffed though.

 

[ama99]

So it's the general agreement that people still like Melee over Smash 4. Me, I like all the games equally, with the exception of Brawl. I've been playing Smash 4 more often in tourneys than I have Melee since it's come out, but I'm hoping to learn how to handle muscle memory and being able to play both games equally well.

Now here's another question. Is Melee Link better than 4 Link? From playing both games side by side, I feel like 4 Link is superior to Melee Link in some fashions.

Link Buffs:
Shorter timer on Bombs/Bombs can be planted on the ground easier
WAY better recovery (ie higher DJ and higher trajectory on Spin Attack and Clawshot extends a third of the FD stage when recovering, plus bomb recovery is way better)
More mobility
Safer smashes (Dsmash and Usmash)
A situational spike.
More reliable tilts.
Jab Cancel Lock exists
Zair is more useful
Bow is better


Nerfs:
Spin Attack lacks the killing power Melee has, and the semi spike.
Dair lacks killing power unless used for spiking.
While the Clawshot can grab the actual ledge, it can't grab walls, or objects under the stage.
Nair ending lag isn't as long.
Down throw to Up B is no longer an option.

Still the same:
Link is still a heavy character, and can still be juggled easier than some characters.
Boomerang and bomb pulls still have ending lag.
Missed grabs are still very punishable.

This is a bare bones comparison. The lack of killing power in the spin attack and Dair does hurt him slightly, but if you placed 4 Link into Melee, I think he'd be represented more than he is.

Your thoughts?

I agree, better mobility and recovery especially make Smash U Link stand above Melee. This is the best we've seen Link ever(bar Project M). I hope more people use him cause he's definitely at least viable now.

Now we just need to buff that grab...

 

[Jasudin]

Overall bombs were buffed though.

(Adding on) Specifically, priority, C4ing through BOMBS on shield, and the fact that explosions don't harm Link upon contact with a hurtbox, allowing for more combos/potential.

Yeah, I think that Sm4sh Link is better. Bomb buffs, less lag on moves, a higher mid-air jump and slightly higher recovery, and the removal of edgehogs skyrocket his ability. Also, in Melee, Link was (more) prone to combos due to laginess and more combos/true combos (he's Link, a heavy fast faller) in general.

EDIT: It seems that Melee Link also has less range than the Brawl, PM, and Sm4sh Links, though it may just be me.

 

[KenMeister]

So it's the general agreement that people still like Melee over Smash 4. Me, I like all the games equally, with the exception of Brawl. I've been playing Smash 4 more often in tourneys than I have Melee since it's come out, but I'm hoping to learn how to handle muscle memory and being able to play both games equally well.

Now here's another question. Is Melee Link better than 4 Link? From playing both games side by side, I feel like 4 Link is superior to Melee Link in some fashions.

Link Buffs:
Shorter timer on Bombs/Bombs can be planted on the ground easier
WAY better recovery (ie higher DJ and higher trajectory on Spin Attack and Clawshot extends a third of the FD stage when recovering, plus bomb recovery is way better)
More mobility
Safer smashes (Dsmash and Usmash)
A situational spike.
More reliable tilts.
Jab Cancel Lock exists
Zair is more useful
Bow is better


Nerfs:
Spin Attack lacks the killing power Melee has, and the semi spike.
Dair lacks killing power unless used for spiking.
While the Clawshot can grab the actual ledge, it can't grab walls, or objects under the stage.
Nair ending lag isn't as long.
Down throw to Up B is no longer an option.

Still the same:
Link is still a heavy character, and can still be juggled easier than some characters.
Boomerang and bomb pulls still have ending lag.
Missed grabs are still very punishable.

This is a bare bones comparison. The lack of killing power in the spin attack and Dair does hurt him slightly, but if you placed 4 Link into Melee, I think he'd be represented more than he is.

Your thoughts?

I'd like to also add that fair was better in Melee than Smash 4. The first hit alone had enough knockback to not only space well with enough knockback, but it can also kill at high percents, making the second hit unnecessary. Fair in Smash 4 is annoying to land because your opponent pretty much already has to be in the air so you can land both hits, since it works like the Fsmash in a sense where it's supposed to link the first hit into the second. Pretty much, it lost its defensive spacing properties, and can really only be used for the situation I mentioned above.

 

[link and ike lover]

Melee Link:
Link's placement is due to a very good approach due to some low lag aerials (with his neutral and forward air), a good variety of projectiles and a very high air speed. A disjointed hitbox also gives Link a slight advantage against others, as well as a fully functional shield that can block a wide variety of projectiles. Link is also a potent edgeguarder in the NTSC versions of the game; his Spin Attack is possibly the best semi-spike in the game, though he still has many other options. Link, however, suffers from a rather high falling speed and a high weight, making him an easy target for chain grabbing and combos. His recovery is also predictable, though he can extend it slightly

SSB4 Link:
While Link has been considered one of the slower and weaker characters in the history of Smash Bros., the jump between Brawl to Smash 4 has given him a great deal of buffs, and while he has some nerfs, his buffs are overall stronger. While some of his attacks have been weakened slightly, it's made up for by both speed and knockback increases within them. Both his ground and aerial game have been improved, and his combo ability strengthened as a whole. His grab game has also been considerably buffed, with some grabs having better angle placements or knockback altogether

 

[Rizen]

IMO Link buffs and nerfs from Brawl to SSB4 are:
Buffs
better mobility all around
Better power and weight lets him tank
recovery with an extended upB, clawshot, bombs with shorter fuses
chaining attacks together
Bombs don't hurt Link if they directly hit the opponent
longer Zair
rolls
grab ends much quicker and grabs out of the air
Dair has less landing lag
jab cancel lock (but this will probably be patched)
Fsmash
Usmash

Nerfs
Fair is weaker (the only nerf with no silver lining)
Dsmash starts slower and is worse for punishing rolls
Zair has worse damage
Link's landing canceling game is nerfed
Grab is shorter and has a longer start up
Dair has worse power
Bombs have shorter fuses and smaller explosions
no quick draw arrows
no DAC

 

[link7]

Melee Link:
Link's placement is due to a very good approach due to some low lag aerials (with his neutral and forward air), a good variety of projectiles and a very high air speed. A disjointed hitbox also gives Link a slight advantage against others, as well as a fully functional shield that can block a wide variety of projectiles. Link is also a potent edgeguarder in the NTSC versions of the game; his Spin Attack is possibly the best semi-spike in the game, though he still has many other options. Link, however, suffers from a rather high falling speed and a high weight, making him an easy target for chain grabbing and combos. His recovery is also predictable, though he can extend it slightly

They need to update that Wiki page. I find approaching with Link in Melee way harder than it is in 4.

 

[Zane the pure]

So I'm finding a lot of Great Link players on the Japanese FG servers. I've only lost to one thus far, but they all seem to know their stuff about as well as I do.

 

[Elessar]

IMO Link buffs and nerfs from Brawl to SSB4 are:
Buffs
better mobility all around

This isn't true actually. Brawl Link and Sm4sh Link are identical in mobility with the sole exception of upB. They have the same walk, run, and dash speeds; they have the same fall speed and fast fall speed; they have the same weight; and their first jump is the same as well. I think that only the second jump was slightly buffed but I can't remember accurately though.