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Link advice please

lime_backwards

Smash Lord
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FFIV

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You seem to play pretty well. It's eerie, I almost play the same way, Item and close-up combo. Anyway, there were a few things I noticed. You can combo your opponent with an extra attack after a down throw with something like Spin Attack. Your biggest problem that I see is a lack of defensive options. I suggest shieldgrab to make the Falco a little more cautious about how close he should get. Teching is another thing you can do. It can prevent your opponent from attacking you while you're lying on the ground if you time it or roll-tech. You can also use Bomb Recovery is situations like around 1:14 if you don't think Spin Attack will suffice. Otherwise, your Link is pretty good.
 

tHrilla`

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i'm not sure, but i don't remember seeing a single shffl; maybe one or two. you were always attacking from a full or double jump. learn how and when to shffl out of shield.

don't abuse his spin-attack; especially when you're in the middle of the stage and your enemy has low damage. also, and i think you actually did this in the video, but just in case you didn't, spin-attack out of shield has its uses. furthermore, the spin-attack isn't his only edge-guarding tactic; learn all the possible options and methods link has in his edge-guard game, starting with his nair.*note* there are many different ways of applying his nair, just like there are many different ways of applying every other aspect in any situation. i speak so broadly because there are just way too many things to consider.

learn when it is better to recover using the hook-shot instead of up-b, and vise verse. can't remember if you ledge-hopped or not...
 

lime_backwards

Smash Lord
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Thank you for the input. I am still workink on my shffl game and on ledge hopping. In later vids you may even see some wavedashing, but I am still working on that never before seen "something". The next couple of vids that wil hopefully be up in the near future are from the same day as the last vid. In those my game is a bit better, so keep checking in and tell others. I would like their input on my game.

again, Thank You.
 

I love lamp

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Spinattack is one of links best moves, and you punished him with it, when he was being really stupid. that falco wasn'tso smart. not much shl and when he did they were to high. I don't know why you would shffl alot against falco on FD though. You genearlly wanna full jump thingsto avoid lasering.

in all honesty though taht falco should have won, all he did was shl the wrong way and use dair and rarely a nair like at the end instead of using dair a nair would have been better. hell a foward throw would have been better. lol
 

tHrilla`

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i agree with the full jump approach when facing falco on FD. i was just wondering whether or not he had trouble shffling.
 

Skler

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Less arrows, especially against Falco. Also, a few too many spin attacks going on, avoid using it at low damages. You were getting hit by his fsmashes a lot because you would jump into him, he was being predictable with those and you need to punish for that. You need to work on spacing some, you used quite a few projectiles when you were too close to him and got hit for it.

I also suggest not really using downtilt against fast characters, the move is too slow and easy to punish.
 

lime_backwards

Smash Lord
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHSiaAYp4Hw

Here is another vid. Once again it is not my best. I had to pester my friend to upload it (I think he has a grudge) so he chose this one. Also the grunting is coming from the Doc player, you are going to want to ignore that. It is from the same day as the last entry, but let the input flow!
 

Link-101

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Did anyone else notice in the first video vs. Falco that Falco seemed to have an extra life in the end? That was a 4 stock match but he died 4 times and had no stock left yet the game wasn't over? But Link only had 4 deaths and it was over...hmm maybe it's just me. Your Link is good, you Up+B a little too much but you had some nice spikes with it. You should definately short hop more I don't think I saw a single one. Shot hop nair or fair are useful.

Edited: Oh never mind that Falco last stock was cut off the screen.
 

lime_backwards

Smash Lord
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I have progressed a little since the first vid. I no longer spam the Spin Attack and short hop attacks more often. Today I participated in a Smash tourney, and got some new ideas. The "project" I was working on still needs major tweeking, but I will now tell you what it is. I am working on bringing the Hookshot into Link's offense. If anybody has any ideas or tips, I would appreceate them. Once again, thank you.
 

Link-101

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I can't think of as single way to integrate Link's hookshot into offense...I'm assuming you mean other than grabs. It doesn't have good knockback and it's really weak... but it's a great idea keep thinking on it.
 

lime_backwards

Smash Lord
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I did mean using the Hookshot in non-grab attacks. I have found it is a decent edge guarding choice. It may not have good knockback, but it has awesome priority. Here's an example: You've knocked a Falco off the stage. He uses his Fire Bird to get back on the stage. The Hookshot will go through thr Fire Bird and will stun the Falco setting you up for a Spin Attack. (note: this is asuming you aimed correctly and fast falled; there is lag after, but if done correctly there should be enough space between you and your opponent to make up for it.) This is just one way, I have found some others, but they are rather difficult to use.
Like I said, I need to work more on this. Also, thanks for the support.
 

tHrilla`

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whenever you find yourself in a tight situation, where the air-dodge is your best option, go ahead and use the aerial hook-shot as an added security measure--don't forget to fast-fall too. usually, your opponent will rush you once he sees that you air-dodged, all a while thinking he has a free hit on you. he's in for a rude awakening once the hook-shot slaps him across the face (causes 6% damage, regardless how often it's used).
 

lime_backwards

Smash Lord
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I LOVE doing that! It annoys the socks off of your opponent. Plus you get a satisfying "WHAP" when they are hit! Ah,... good times. =) When using the Hookshot, fast falling IS a must. Thank you.
 

Link-101

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Well why would you grappling hook through his firebird when you can boomerang,bow,bomb,or just wait for him to get close and Up+B spike him.
 

lime_backwards

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If Falco is over the edge when he is hit, he will fall and have to reposition himself to get back on stage. Thus giving you more options to defend your ground. You do not have to, it's just an option. BUT, your opponents will be extremely annoyed and may leed to sloppy fighting.
=)
 

Deva

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The hook-shot as an attack does have some uses. You can use it if you short hop, air dodge instantly, and launch the hook-shot, then fast fall. You can tell if you did it right because it should look like you launched it without leaving the ground. You should be barely lifted off the stage to the point that if you screwed it up, you would wave dash in place. This is the quickest way to launch the attack. It can be used as a ranged attack with more range than Marth, though I would only use it if the opponent has a decent chunk of Life missing as you cannot L-cancel the landing after a fast fall. A slower, easier way to use it would be to jump at the opponent and launch it with a fast fall. This works against opponents that tend to shffle excessively, ie C.falcon. The final use would be as a ranged ledge hop in place of the ledge hop boomerang. It's quicker, though you can only use it if you have not already used it to recover before grabbing the ledge. The only time I really use the hook-shot attack is with a ledge hop. Other than that, use it sparingly as something your opponent may not expect in battle.

As far as the matches, you did fairly well. You have decent timeing, though the main problem I see is knowing when to use certain moves with that timing.you rely a little too heavily on the non charged bow. Like the hook-shot attack, I would use it sparingly as a move your opponent wouldn't expect. It seemed like it was your main tactic of approach throughout a majority of the matches. If you like that style, I would recommend using the short hop boomerang more often. Also, more bombs would be useful as an approach. If you short hop and throw a bomb, You can launch the bomb when you land in three different configurations. You can land and have the bomb go over your head towards the opponent(a very useful mind game), you can throw the bomb at the opponent's feet, upon landing, or straight at them. Other than that, Iwould work on wave dashing and shffling, though more importantly the shffling. You have a lot of potential. Keep at it.
 

lime_backwards

Smash Lord
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Thanks for the "Wave Shot" idea. I am going to have to master that. Since those videos, I have started to shffl more often. I sometimes get lazy and do not L- canecel though =(. I am still working on Link's wavedash. I can pull it off most of the time, but I do not always use it in the fray. If anybody has ideas on that application as well as the Hookshot, please post them. Thank You.
 

SOLAR

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My link advice is this: Learn marth

If you don't want to though, then my suggestion is to leave yourself less open by using L cancelled moves. Your arrows and dtilts often slow your game down as well as make you vulnerable. The falco player you were facing seemed pretty slow, so I suggest to speed up your game to face faster opponents. If he L cancelled more moves into shines, he would have had many easy combos on you. Also, don't be afraid to use more boomerangs and bombs to lure him into you. Camping with Link isn't cheap, it's essential.
 

Deva

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Link doesn't have a very useful wave dash. Use it if you think it will help you dodge an attack or as a mind game. Use your projectiles to keep your opponent away from you. In most cases don't advance. Once your opponent has taken significant damage, use your projectiles to advance and combo. Example: short hop forward bomb throw to short hop forward boomerang to shffled fair, nair, dair, or uair.
 

tHrilla`

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I sometimes get lazy and do not L- canecel though =(. I am still working on Link's wavedash.
if you're lazy, keep in mind that it's not necessary to press L/R all the way down--or even half-way down--in order to l-cancel. personally, i hardly apply any pressure at all on L/R when i l-cancel. for those of you who l-cancel your aerials with the same shoulder button you use for your wave-dashes, then i'd suggest adopting this method; actually, i'd suggest this method to anyone.

by comparison, link's wave-dash is considered difficult to execute. needless to say, but the wave-dash is all about correct timing. i found that shield-dashing is a good way to become more familiar with the correct timing of a specific character's wave-dash. repeatedly wave-dashing straight down may also help with your timing.
 

Kroy

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Well why would you grappling hook through his firebird when you can boomerang,bow,bomb,or just wait for him to get close and Up+B spike him.
Style all the way baby. That's why.

Mainly I use links WD as a mindgame out of a DD or for spacing, but his WD's short range means that it is impractical to start a combo with. Every now and then you can land a wavesmash or something, but for the most part I resign to using projectiles to start combos. I wouldn't say his WD is useless by anymeans, and can actually speed up link's game to some degree. And to be fancy it's fun to waveland a random short hop.
 

lime_backwards

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Most of my wave dashes end up being shield dashes. I have the timing down, I just do not always get it perfect. Since I have been working on Link's WD, I can do it with almost any other character. Thank you for the style support Kroy. I'm wondering though... does anybody know of others that use the Hookshot in thier offensive game?
 

Kroy

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Are you speaking of well known Link players or just anyone. In general I use it in friendlies, which is all I really play, once or twice to gimp a recov, but its not a tactic to be used competitively. It sadly just makes Link slower which you do NOT want in a serious match. It's not like Link has a bad edgeguard game without it so

Off hand I don't main Link so I don't know anything other than how to play him. The only well known Link player I've seen play is Anika and he doesn't use it for means other than recov in vids that I've seen. I've seen some other link players and they don't use it either, but I am not sure who is pro/semi-pro caliber and who isn't.
 

tHrilla`

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.Most of my wave dashes end up being shield dashes
what i meant to say, was this: practice wave-dashing straight out of your shield.

I'm wondering though... does anybody know of others that use the Hookshot in thier offensive game?
lord hdl does. he likes to use it as an edge-guarding tactic. if i remember correctly, he said that he would jump over his opponent who is recovering back to the stage>drops a bomb>double-jumps back toward the stage>air-dodge hook-shot. all of these moves are subject to vary depending on the situation.
 

lime_backwards

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Been there, not all of his advice is good. The stuff you guys have posted is more insightful. Plus most of the posts there are off topic. Also, I am sorry I have not been able to get any new vids up. I should be able to get at least another one up in the next week or so.
 

Deva

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If you want really good advice then look at the "Pixles Gems of Wisdom" thread =)
That's a cruel joke. This guy's actually trying to get good.

The hook-shot as an attack isn't used that often mainly because it is slow and cannot be L-canceled. Like I said before, use it as something your opponent would'nt expect and use it very sparingly. As far as Link's wave dash, I have trouble seeing why people think it's more difficult than any other. To me, wave dashing with anyone seems the same. You just have to have a relative idea of the jump frames for each character. For example: with Fox, I press the jump, shield, and the direction at nearly the same time with the jump being pushed almost unnoticably before the others. with Marth, there is slightly more time between the jump and the shield>directional tilt. With link, I just wait a fraction of a second before inputing the shield and direction. With Bowser, I actually haveto wait about a quarter of a second between inputs. I don't know the exact frames. It just comes through practice of feeling how fast each character jumps. As far as getting out of using shield dashes, try releasing the L-trigger sooner. Link's wavedash is slower than most characters, but it still has it's uses as a dodging and mindgaming mechanism. Keep practicing and I look forward to your future vids.
 

tHrilla`

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i just wanted to mention two things.

your link vs samus vid: (1) what were you trying to do when you were attempting to recover, around 1:10 of the match? you could of easily wiggled+hook-shot. (2) i don't remember seeing you ledge-hop at all. you must perfect the ledge-hop game; i use it probably 85%-90% of the time im on the ledge.

*another cool tip: while recovering back to the stage from a decent height, pull out a bomb and hold on to it. when you're finally near the stage, double-jump and throw rang at your opponent>up-b grab ledge>ledge-hop and throw the bomb you've been holding. it's all situational though.
 

lime_backwards

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Like I said, that vid is from the same day as the last two. What went wrong at about 1:10 was that I mis-used the boomerang. I meant to do the spin attack, but didn't. That vid was before I started this "help column." So sorry, no ledge hopping. I have'nt picked smash up in a day or two. I was in a tourney (I'm not sure I mentioned that) and played with one of the entrants on Tues. I know practice makes perfect, and I will have plenty of time to do that over the holiday break. =)
 

lime_backwards

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I keep watching those vids, and HOLY CRAP! I spammed the spin attack like crazy. I am sorry you had to watch those. It must have been painful.
 

tHrilla`

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watch new videos of aniki on youtube. take notice of his ledge-hops. also, if you ledge-hop immediately after grabbing the ledge, you'll still have some invincibility frames on the way up. if you hesitate to ledge-hop upon grabbing the ledge, then re-grab the edge>immediately ledge-hop.
 

Deva

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True, though it becomes more predictable if you regrab the edge. Then again, who could complain about Free invincibility frames. You could always use it as a mind game since the opponent would expect you to instantly edge hop. You could instead stall.
 

tHrilla`

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The only well known Link player I've seen play is Anika and he doesn't use it for means other than recov in vids that I've seen.
in a match against ken, aniki air-dodged one of his attacks and then slapped him with the hook-shot. not only was he(aniki) able to land safely, he also managed to get in a decent combo on ken afterward. if aniki would've just air-dodged instead, without the hook-shot, he would've surely been punished; probably by marth's tipper. basically, this is the only other practical use of his aerial hook-shot.

those who think link's aerial hook-shot is only effective for recovering, either: (a) are not too experienced with link; or (b) don't even use link. even a well known smasher like cort criticized me about using link's aerial hook-shot other than for recovery; he must not use link at all. he had nothing to say after i mentioned aniki used it successfully against ken.

True, though it becomes more predictable if you regrab the edge.
the ledge hop does not become more predictable if you re-grab the edge. why? because you have many other options to choose from after re-grabbing the ledge; the ledge-hop is not the only available course of action.
 

Deva

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the ledge hop does not become more predictable if you re-grab the edge. why? because you have many other options to choose from after re-grabbing the ledge; the ledge-hop is not the only available course of action.
Eh, I apologize, I worded that wrong. I meant to say re ledge hoping notifies the opponent that you will soon be performing a ledge hop attack with invincibility frames. The nice thing is they have no clue when you will do it. Aniki used it as an effective mind game against Ken. While ledge hopping, Ken use his counter when Aniki finally hopped on to the edge. Instead of attacking, Aniki wave landed back off the stage into a Dair to KO Ken. I'm sorry, it came out wrong. Predictable was the wrong word. I meant it notifys your opponent that you will most likely be performing a ledge hop with invincibility frames. It is not predictable because from there it can be used as a deadly mind game.
 

shminkledorf

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those who think link's aerial hook-shot is only effective for recovering, either: (a) are not too experienced with link; or (b) don't even use link. even a well known smasher like cort criticized me about using link's aerial hook-shot other than for recovery; he must not use link at all. he had nothing to say after i mentioned aniki used it successfully against ken.
You obviously aren't experienced either. Aerial hookshot sucks, nothing mroe to be said. Cort is right, you aren't. Aniki used it successfully, so what? Everything works once. Big deal. Stop trying to sound good, you aren't.
 

Aesir

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Dorfs right, lol.

It may work once, but don't expect it to work again. Aniki may of just made a mistake and accidently airdodged and saw that he was ****ed, so he probably hookshotted to avoid a tipper.

its useless no matter how you slice it.
 

tHrilla`

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You obviously aren't experienced either. Aerial hookshot sucks, nothing mroe to be said. Cort is right, you aren't. Aniki used it successfully, so what? Everything works once. Big deal. Stop trying to sound good, you aren't.
shh...nub. you assume i look for situations to use aerial hookshot other than for recovery; not true at all. you're ignorant, but that's to be expected of a bird-brain. just about all the tops links, if not all, speak in favor of this method when the situation calls for it. so, shh... petty link novice.
 

shminkledorf

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See, I never said that. But you're making it sound like it's a great move. it isn't. Shut up, you don't know anything. Shh...petty link turd. Go to a tournament.
 
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