Levels of play.

[MTKO]

Something I've noticed quite a bit before, but only just started really paying a ton of attention to is the way I play against people who are at various levels of play in the game.

I have two friends who use almost no tech skill besides short hopping and some very basic ice climber desynching tactic (like shooting ice blocks at different times and using the freeze attack and smashing) and that's it. I recently have improved a lot and had a chance to play with them a little today. I lost two matches, one of which was because I was trying to play very aggressively and be very technical with my falco. I just got punished with smashes and other attacks. Then I realized to win I should just sit back and bait them into using a move, rolling (they roll a LOT), and so on. And then just punish it with a combo or smash.

My friends didn't seem to understand why I was winning and thought the way I was playing was really boring (even though they play pretty much the exact same way.)

Anyway I thought it was was interesting and thought it wouldn't work against my friend I usually practice with who is a ton better than my other friends. Well I found out playing really simple like that worked pretty well to. I played marth, baited him into making a mistake or waited for him to get impatient and approach me, then punished with a forward smash over and over again. I was able to four stock him that way once (which hasn't happened in a long time) and then successfully win several more matches before he caught on. Then he started to play more safely and mix up his approaches and try to force me into making mistakes then punish my mistakes. Quickly the gameplay turned into using more advanced things and not just punishing everything with forward smash. It was really interesting. I think that may be the reason my friend and I are quite a bit better than these other guys now. We're learning how to adapt better and we've added in a lot of tech skill into our games to give us more options during a match.

So I'd like to know how each of you play when you face off against a player that is either a lower skill level, same level, or higher level? Also I'd really be interested in knowing how you play against a player who plays very smart, but uses absolutely no tech skill?

 

[DippnDots]

It's like a finger pointing at the moon, don't concentrate on the finger.

 

[0Room]

Against lower players, practice combos.
Against same level players, play your heart out.
Against better players, ask for help.

I know someone who plays with no tech skill, but is pretty smart. Just frustrate them by out mindgaming them.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

It's like a finger pointing at the moon, don't concentrate on the finger.

Simple baits can do you good, but the are only a tool to help you improve overall. Simple baits should not be the total focus as you will miss out a lot of other stuff. Is this what you meant? I heard of that phrase only recently.

 

[Sephy95]

Its exactly the way I play with my younger brother. I approach to try and combo him but he punishes with an fsmash, REPEATEDLY! He still almost never wins though. I catch on and start combo-ing him with Falco or Marth once I figure him out.

 

[Bones0]

Simple baits can do you good, but the are only a tool to help you improve overall. Simple baits should not be the total focus as you will miss out a lot of other stuff. Is this what you meant? I heard of that phrase only recently.

How I took it as is to focus on your opponent, not your own character. There's really no reason to watch your character because you should know what it is doing. Your opponent is what you need to focus on to read their movement and execute tactics like baits or good approaches when they leave themselves open.

 

[mesa23]

I went to my first tourney last month ("don't choke" in SFL) and I got to play some friendlies against some people ALOT better than me. Colbol took a **** on me (over and over), spider_sense (I think it was) took a **** on me, some falcon player whose name I never found out took a **** on me, a link main who went by zoro (I think) took a **** on me, and a pretty damn good falco player whose name I wish I remembered took a **** on me too (though I took 1 match off him out of like 6 or 7).

There were probably others I don't remember but against these dudes I just tried my best to take a stock and then relaxed a bit. Also, I took notes. LOTS of notes.

I played against some dudes around my level and against them I just tried winning.

Against the ones who were below my level I just tried showing off to be honest.



Also, I have a friend who plays pretty smart but has very little techskill. He plays puff though so he doesn't really need it. Against him I tend to show off a bit, mostly because he can't react to it as well as he could if he had more technical prowess.

I also have a friend who has no techskill and doesn't play particularly smart. I usually just sandbag against him.

 

[DippnDots]

Simple baits can do you good, but the are only a tool to help you improve overall. Simple baits should not be the total focus as you will miss out a lot of other stuff. Is this what you meant? I heard of that phrase only recently.

I was getting at that how much skill your opponent has in comparison to you is irrelevant, during the game you shouldn't be thinking about "power level" otherwise you're diverting your attention to something that has no impact on the outcome of the match.

 

[Mokumo]

Against lower players, practice combos.
Against same level players, play your heart out.
Against better players, ask for help.

THAT

except in tournament. no mercy in tournament matches. always believe in winning and ****** your opponent no matter how good you think they might be.

 

[leffen]

when I play against people below my level I just sandbag

 

[0Room]

THAT

except in tournament. no mercy in tournament matches. always believe in winning and ****** your opponent no matter how good you think they might be.

Well yeah. I was saying outside of tournament.

 

[DualCats]

I play very aggressively against people I'm confident I can beat. Against players of the same level or higher, I tend to be more careful and significantly less flashy. It how depends how seriously I'm taking the match. I have a tendency to be pretty silly in friendlies but in tourney, against good players in particular, I become some sort of godless terrorist.

I usually lose to players who have a "smarter" playstyle but also I'm pretty new to competitive melee. To a point, players who are more technical but not very strategic are much easier for me to beat.

 

[Divinokage]

Lower level = Experiment combos and setups
Same level = Have an epic battle, use everything I've learned to try to outwit my opponent. Use the sword!
Higher level = Try to beat them anyway, for glory!

Edit: I'm at a level where I still try to see some mistakes I do but I'm not that far off to bring a challenge to anyone, this is why I say this. At some point when you have everything down, its all about the one who makes the better decisions.

It's still pretty cute that most players will fall under the lower level range though. When you are on top, everyone will be low level rofl.

 

[Twinkles]

Gee, I wonder why KAGE >->

Lol, I can't really say I'm at any level to judge a good opponent or not. The most skilled person I've played knew, at most, rolling and airdodging Still, based on what I'm hearing, the general response is:

Lower level -> experiment with your character
Higher level -> analyze why pros are pros-> learning to be a pro
Same level -> put your knowledge to the test

 

[Divinokage]

When you guys say fighting higher level opponents, do you think like in tournament or just friendlies? Because if it's tournament, there's no time to properly analyse your opponent unless you play 2 sets in grand finals. You have to use everything anyway to try to beat them because if you think you'll lose vs someone better than already you are not helping yourself.

 

[Twinkles]

I'm thinking just friendlies. In tourney play, I would say that it'd be better to never think about player skill and just go all out. In retrospect, you gain some insight no matter who you play against or how you play. If you adapt to a player in a tourney match, you gain insight into the opponent's character--which you can use to punish other players of the same character, thus increasing your overall skill level.

But, then again, this is mostly theoretical stuff I pulled out my arse. Someone, please correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Beat!]

When I play against people above my level I just sandbag

 

[Veetaak]

When I play against people above my level I just sandbag

reversed leffen style

leffen doesn't have his trollface on though

 

[Beat!]

Lol, imagine if someone actually did sandbag against better players.

That would look really silly.

 

[Divinokage]

Mango? lol. Isai?

 

[Veetaak]

yup

It's kind of funny that most players I've played who are better than me main Falco so I just try to understand how they **** me xD

And then I try to apply some of the rapeness in my game, it's hard though.

 

[Beat!]

Mango? lol. Isai?

When I said "better" I meant "better than themselves". Sorry for the misunderstanding :d

 

[Divinokage]

When I said "better" I meant "better than themselves". Sorry for the misunderstanding :d

Ohh, ok. That's just.. inconceivable almost. lol. It would look ridiculous.

 

[DippnDots]

I'm thinking just friendlies. In tourney play, I would say that it'd be better to never think about player skill and just go all out.

this is what I was getting at, though very vaguely. And it is tourney specific. Friendlies are a whole different game really

 

[SpeedyJ]

Lower skill level: Practice combos, get cool kills, troll by chain grabbing and tech chasing.

Same level: Do my best and when I'm feeling confident, try something new that I haven't done before or something I've been practicing.

Higher level: Do my best

Spoiler

...and get *****

and hope for the upset.

Smart w/o tech skill: See "same level", but spam dash dance and wave dash.

 

[Jonas]

Mango? lol. Isai?

Mango vs Isai would be epic. I'd love to see them trying to out-sandbag each other.

 

[1048576]

I honestly have no idea why I ever win. I fall for simple tricks (run up, wait for spotdodge) and I have less tech skill than everyone else on my level.