Levelling Up Shulk's Arts - Custom Moveset Discussion 3.0

[erico9001]

With Decisive Arts, it's hard to go wrong with the monado art you pick. Even with regular Monado Arts, all the Monado arts are pretty damn good. It's easy to just look at one negative aspect of an art and miss how another positive aspect completely makes up for it, possible even in the exact same sense. That's what this post is for:

Anyways, so here's the monado arts from my perspective.

No monado art has a glaring weakness except for Monado Smash, and maybe Monado Shield WITHOUT Advancing Air Slash.

Monado Jump:
You take 1.22x damage. However, your jumping ability makes it easy to avoid attacks and escape from combos. You can be very unpredictable with this art, and you have very good control over the stage. More damage taken if you are hit, but much less of a chance to be hit in the first place.

Monado Speed:
You deal .8x damage. However, you get more hits out thanks to improved grab game, faster air speed, and combos. Your worse shield pushback is mediated by improved cross-ups and aerial mobility (being able to go forward and back easily). Lowered jump height is fine, because your recovery is actually still improved by the air speed.

Monado Shield:
Worse mobility all around. So, just don't move around much; play a defensive game. Rather than hit shields with your worse shield pushback, use your extra shield strength to play a great defensive game. You don't need to approach projectile users anyways; let them stale on your shield. Uhh, you deal less damage, but take less damage yourself. Has an overall effect of slowing the game. Less air mobilty/recovery is somewhat mediated by the less knockback taken. However, hits can string you off-stage. Then, this is mediated either by switching to Monado Jump or using Advancing Air Slash.

Monado Buster:
You deal more damage. 1.4x damage. You take more damage. 1.13x damage. I have seen several different people call Buster risky. No. If you take some hits while in Monado Buster, it's really not that bad. In the long run, 2-4% more damage is not going to matter, especially if Monado Shield is being used well to extend your stock. If anything, the shield pushback makes Buster more safe. Also, of course, the lower knockback is not actually a real downside, because it allows for combos (easy D-throw combos).

Monado Smash:
There's no too much that redeems this art outside of kill percents. Helps against some combos and can get some early gimps. If used defensively, it does help keep people away from you for some time as it sends them farther away. That could moderately help in stalling, but Jump/Shield are better for that role.

Where am I going with this? Well, I think this is important for understanding why decisive arts are so good.

Decisive arts take this and expand on it a lot. Everything that counteracts the negative aspects of the arts is improved vastly! Everything. Decisive arts actually feel quite powerful thanks to their huge buffs.
- Monado Jump's stage control and unpredictability (and comboability).
- Monado Speed's speed. You know, I was facing this Mega Man, and Speed is actually the most recommended art for that MU in his MU thread. Decisive Speed made it a breeze.
- Decisive Shield improves defenses to the point where a lot is unsafe on hit, and you're unstoppable with AAS at high percents unless hit by like a Smash Attack or something else very strong. Decisive Shield was even viable against the Mega Man thanks to the threat of dash vision on his pellets and the even greater, extra shield strength allowing me to shrug his projectiles.
- Buster is even more Busterish. More stuff is safe on shield. Combos do more damage. Etc.
- Smash is somewhat interesting, because I've been able to use it consistently without dying from it. After killing the person, I become avoidant. I jump around a lot, utilize platforms, and do my best to not die. I do make sure to send out some safe aerials, however, in order to leave me less predictable. If the aerials do hit, it actually sends the opponent quite far away, helping out my stalling.

Overall, as long as I understood what were probably the best arts to be using in the MU in general, managing the Monado Arts was very easy. Each art is now like its own character, and they are all pretty good characters, except for Smash. Other character can deal without having the ability to change Monado Arts, and so can we (but don't forget we can still change it every so often). Changing monado arts seems to me to be more like thinking 'is it time for Monado Shield yet?' than anything else. That is, unless I was already using Monado Shield, because it's already great in the neutral. Maybe I would do Buster at the start and then Speed and then Shield, or something. Or, why not Jump? Stick out in Shield (avoiding hits during cooldown) until I die. Then, if they have not died yet, Smash time.

 

[Goesasu]

With Decisive Arts, it's hard to go wrong with the monado art you pick. Even with regular Monado Arts, all the Monado arts are pretty damn good. It's easy to just look at one negative aspect of an art and miss how another positive aspect completely makes up for it, possible even in the exact same sense. That's what this post is for:

Decisive arts take this and expand on it a lot. Everything that counteracts the negative aspects of the arts is improved vastly! Everything. Decisive arts actually feel quite powerful thanks to their huge buffs.
- Monado Jump's stage control and unpredictability (and comboability).
- Monado Speed's speed. You know, I was facing this Mega Man, and Speed is actually the most recommended art for that MU in his MU thread. Decisive Speed made it a breeze.
- Decisive Shield improves defenses to the point where a lot is unsafe on hit, and you're unstoppable with AAS at high percents unless hit by like a Smash Attack or something else very strong. Decisive Shield was even viable against the Mega Man thanks to the threat of dash vision on his pellets and the even greater, extra shield strength allowing me to shrug his projectiles.
- Buster is even more Busterish. More stuff is safe on shield. Combos do more damage. Etc.
- Smash is somewhat interesting, because I've been able to use it consistently without dying from it. After killing the person, I become avoidant. I jump around a lot, utilize platforms, and do my best to not die. I do make sure to send out some safe aerials as, however, in order to leave me less predictable. If the aerials do hit, it actually sends the opponent quite far away, helping out my stalling.

Overall, as long as I understood what were probably the best arts to be using in the MU in general, managing the Monado Arts was very easy. Each art is now like its own character, and they are all pretty good characters, except for Smash. Other character can deal without having the ability to change Monado Arts, and so can we (but don't forget we can still change it every so often). Changing monado arts seems to me to be more like thinking 'is it time for Monado Shield yet?' than anything else. That is, unless I was already using Monado Shield, because it's already great in the neutral. Maybe I would do Buster at the start and then Speed and then Shield, or something. Or, why not Jump? Stick out in Shield (avoiding hits during cooldown) until I die. Then, if they have not died yet, Smash time.

Dspeed mainly, d buster sometimes. Dshield over 120%. Dsmash when needed. Thats my Dplaystyle.

 

[Scieric]

With Decisive Arts, it's hard to go wrong with the monado art you pick. Even with regular Monado Arts, all the Monado arts are pretty damn good. It's easy to just look at one negative aspect of an art and miss how another positive aspect completely makes up for it, possible even in the exact same sense.

It is, as a matter of fact, very EASY to pick the wrong Art, your opponent can condition you into thinking one Art is superior against them, then completely switch up their playstyles to counter the Art you just entered. You are now screwed for 20 seconds. (In Smash terms, until the end of your damn stock)

 

[erico9001]

It is, as a matter of fact, very EASY to pick the wrong Art, your opponent can condition you into thinking one Art is superior against them, then completely switch up their playstyles to counter the Art you just entered. You are now screwed for 20 seconds. (In Smash terms, until the end of your damn stock)

How? Or what art? All the arts except for Smash are good in the neutral.

 

[Scieric]

Buster is still Buster. Also, I don't think you want to be stuck in it for 20 seconds, on the off chance that MAYBE they could reach kill percent from 1 good combo that you thought would take 20 seconds of chipping. Now they won't die. And offstage, you don't want to be stuck in Sheild because your recovery is inferior. And you don't want to be stuck in Smash either since if you get the kill early, you are a useless character for the duration of the Art.

 

[Masonomace]

Buster is still Buster. Also, I don't think you want to be stuck in it for 20 seconds, on the off chance that MAYBE they could reach kill percent from 1 good combo that you thought would take 20 seconds of chipping. Now they won't die. And offstage, you don't want to be stuck in Sheild because your recovery is inferior. And you don't want to be stuck in Smash either since if you get the kill early, you are a useless character for the duration of the Art.

If you're going for huge damage as a comeback factor then you'd want to activate DBuster much much sooner, like after taking a stock off soon. Buster Arts can be used to bully an opponent's shield too so it's not like you have to deal big damage in a short time.

Other than that, saying that Buster is still Buster doesn't mean I'll discredit DBuster. That DArt has helped me reset matches to the point I would be playing for the moment. DBuster possesses great comeback potential whether you use those 20 seconds for patient damage chipping or to go all-out dealing tons of damage regardless of the opponent's play-style shift.

And yes, it's bad to be DShield Shulk offstage, but that's because we'd only be talking about DShield Shulk by him self with regular Air Slash & regular Back Slash. But since we're discussing Customs, it's silly to think that anyone who frequently uses a Shield Art would roll AS instead of AAS, so have a 2X2X set or 232X set then he'll be much more respected. Also keep in mind that DShield is a stronger Shield Art, which means that the stronger weight & defense stats makes DShield Shulk resist knockback & the better hitstun reduction allows c-c-c-c-combo breakers out of aerial strings. I can assure you it's that much harder to knock DShield Shulk deep offstage than regular Shield Shulk.

EDIT: Forgot about DSmash .

DSmash to me has a simple strategy: After you take the stock & have to wait 10+ seconds longer, you play it safe like you've always been in your match & look for the few reads to get your opponent off the stage. Once you get them off the stage, you focus on one good read to get a FAir & usually you can follow up with another FAir after. You pretend you're Jump Shulk or Speed Shulk but instead with Vanilla air speed / movement & higher knockback that allows those FAirs to string together.

Either your opponent's recovery is mediocre enough that they won't return, or you go for the early gimp / KO with DAir / AAS / BSL stage spike / any move that can KO.

 

[Super Smash Fanatic]

I'm a huge advocate of customs, but have refrained from posting till i knew what sets i wanted in. I think 2123 and 3123 are all that's important in life. I think both art customs are upgrades, backslash is almost useless and the other customs just further that, AAS is so good on stages like battlefield and smashville, and while DV has it's uses I think Power Vision just takes the whole cake.

 

[Scieric]

Please explain to me how the Standard Arts are the least viable.

 

[Goesasu]

Please explain to me how the Standard Arts are the least viable.

Because their stats boosts arent enough to get the job done. Every D or H art outclasses them, D arts even has the exactly same drawbacks than regular arts but benefiits upgrades.
AAS patches Dshield offstage disadvantage so you never truly need Jump to recover. Djump can be used for mind games and mixing attack paterns if you want.

D arts makes all arts worth it in neutral, not just speed. Just use Dsmash with care.

 

[Super Smash Fanatic]

Everything Goesasu said plus about Decisive I agree with. On the topic of Hyper, it gives you straight upgrades to your arts and makes every art except maybe shield and speed better. In MU's where i need those two i switch to the previously mentioned decisive. Understand though that i have no problem with a 1123 set, I just won't ever use it personally.

 

[Scieric]

Yeah, but with hyper, the drawbacks are also increased. And having AAS doesn't completely patch the recovery disadvantage of Shield. Also, Standard Arts is the most convenient for the use of MALLC, a very beneficial technique for Shulk. Decisive only allows the use of it every 20 seconds. They also the most balanced and IMO, most convenient.

 

[Goesasu]

Yeah, but with hyper, the drawbacks are also increased. And having AAS doesn't completely patch the recovery disadvantage of Shield. Also, Standard Arts is the most convenient for the use of MALLC, a very beneficial technique for Shulk. Decisive only allows the use of it every 20 seconds. They also the most balanced and IMO, most convenient.

I will only talk about D arts, H arts arent my specialty.

Yes, AAS does patch the recovery disadvantage of Shield if you know how to use it. Not even in a single game i have died because of being unable to come back to the stage while in D shield, never. Why? because Dshield makes you harder to launch than regular shield, so you never are sent too far away so AAS is all you will ever need to come back.Just go and try it for yourself is that simple.

Sure D arts only allows the use of MALLC every 20 seconds, so what? its a small price.
Also, its not like you play MALLCing your very playsylte are you?
You gain so much more playing in Dspeed almost all the match.

Regular arts are not bad, they are just there, in the middle.

1123
2123
3123

Those are the true critical sets.

 

[Masonomace]

And having AAS doesn't completely patch the recovery disadvantage of Shield

It solves most of the issue being in a Shield Art. AAS inputted quickly & done without applying drifting travels the same distance regardless of the Art active, which is why it's good for any Shield Art especially Hyper Shield. Delaying the 2nd hit of AAS & drifting towards the direction you wanna go is the wonderful icing on the cake that is Decisive Shield.

Also, Standard Arts is the most convenient for the use of MALLC, a very beneficial technique for Shulk. Decisive only allows the use of it every 20 seconds. They also the most balanced and IMO, most convenient.

Yes the MALLC point is true. Waiting 1.5 seconds & doing something with the Decisive Monado Art activation & then waiting 20+ seconds later obviously reduces the usage to MALLC or any other techs via Art activation to roughly 3 times per minute. Hyper Arts won't MALLC as much as standard Arts since 15 seconds but they could benefit much more from Monado Art techniques than even the standard Arts.

 

[erico9001]

Hyper Shield walks so slow that if you walk off an edge while in it you will grab onto the edge. That's not true of the other Shield arts. Additionally, Hyper Shield runs so slow that its dash animation is actually faster than its run, and it will slow down as it continues running. Furthermore, it slows down enough so that it will also grab onto the edge.

I'm currently exploring combos with the different custom arts. I'll be posting all that info into the combo thread.

Yeah, but with hyper, the drawbacks are also increased. And having AAS doesn't completely patch the recovery disadvantage of Shield. Also, Standard Arts is the most convenient for the use of MALLC, a very beneficial technique for Shulk. Decisive only allows the use of it every 20 seconds. They also the most balanced and IMO, most convenient.

For Shield/Decisive Shield, AAS does fix the recovery enough so that you don't have to worry about dying to the bottom blast zone as long as you have your double jump. Really, the vast majority of my deaths while using AAS + Decisive Shield have been from a powerful attack being able to send me into the blast zone. If it doesn't, I live. Thanks to Decisive Shield being so strong, the kinds of attack that can kill it are limited.

I use MALLC a lot in my playstyle with regular arts. However, MALLC is not at all necessary to using Shulk, so I don't miss it much when I'm using decisive arts.

 

[Super Smash Fanatic]

I really only use MALLC 2 or 3 times a match, so that price is pretty minimal to me. As for AAS I agree with all the previous comments 100% nothing to add. Finally as said previously I'm down with sets that have standard arts and normal air slash, you just won't see me use them in any matches.

 

[Goesasu]

I really only use MALLC 2 or 3 times a match, so that price is pretty minimal to me. As for AAS I agree with all the previous comments 100% nothing to add. Finally as said previously I'm down with sets that have standard arts and normal air slash, you just won't see me use them in any matches.

Im glad people are realizing that H and D arts plus AAS are the true. (specially D arts IMO)

Back in the day, when we made the EVO sets, i was alone defending 2123 as a set, it almost didnt make it.
Now i can asure you guys that it will become the most used set by far as time goes.

 

[Sha-Shulk]

I've been using 2*23, and I'm really feeling it.

NOTE: "*" means any backslash.

 

[Scieric]

You will never take me away from Standard Arts. Ever. 1(1/2)23 ftw! I just really think they are the best ones. We are all mediocre players at best, but ask some of the best Shulk players. None, or very few, will say that decisive is the best for singles, which is what we are looking for in a set anyway. Check out Jerm (Distant Kingdom)'s MALLC video. It is made very clear how important the technique is. I also am a huge advocate for being able to cancel your Arts early. A Standard Arts Shulk is the most versatile, adaptable and balanced Shulk. And why do you all worship Speed so much? I find Jump to be the best Art and if you were to stick to one the whole match, I would say stick to Jump.

 

[erico9001]

You ll never take me away from Standard Arts. Ever. 1(1/2)23 ftw! I just really think they are the best ones. We are all mediocre players at best, but ask some of the best Shulk players. None, or very few, will say that decisive is the best for singles, which is what we are looking for in a set anyway. Check out Jerm (Distant Kingdom)'s MALLC video. It is made very clear how important the technique is. I also am a huge advocate for being able to cancel your Arts early. A Standard Arts Shulk is the most versatile, adaptable and balanced Shulk. And why do you all worship Speed so much? I find Jump to be the best Art and if you were to stick to one the whole match, I would say stick to Jump.

1123 was my favorite set before getting into decisive. However, the decisive arts are just so powerful. Sure, I can't use my fancy looking MALLC all the time like I used to, but being an all around stronger character beats that.

Your argument by authority is wrong. Something is not made true because an authority/Jerm says it, because they are prone to error like all of us. Also, I've noticed Jerm in particular exaggerates things. MALLC is useful, but not necessary. Also, these authorities on Shulk might not be authorities on Shulk's custom moves. Jerm is definitely a great player, but there's a reason I'm helping him with his upcoming Shulk custom moves guide.

I use all the arts with decisive arts. In terms of how often I use them in a Shulk ditto, Shield > Buster ~ Speed > Smash > Jump. Of course, this all changes with MU. I might be using Jump the most in some MU's, and it's pretty good in decisive form. The Nair -> Fair -> Fair combos extend out to ridiculously late percents. And I agree that the art should be used more. All around, the art is good in the neutral. People do not like its extra damage taken, but that might be because they do not realize you're less likely to be hit in the first place.

You are free to your own preference or style, of course. Nothing's happening to the 1123 set. I just recommend you try out decisive arts in some real matches if you haven't already (do it in friendlies perhaps). The Monado's power is really brought out in decisive arts. It is an opportunity to improve Shulk gameplay, but it might not be for everyone.

 

[Scarhi]

Decisive Arts are pretty good, and they're probably the best option for a few match-ups, but I don't think they're a strict upgrade from Regular Arts.
I think that in practice, by going for DArts, you lose the ability to capitalize quickly on some advantageous situations. For example, if you just knocked your opponent offstage while in Speed Art and he's now hanging to the ledge, you might want to cancel the Art and go into Buster or Smash to get a bigger reward off your ledge covering options.

Here's another example: you're in Speed Art and your opponent is around 100% and recovering high. A Smash Utilt could seal the stock at this point but if you're using DArts, you just can't go into Smash Art before Speed runs out so you can't capitalize as much on this advantageous position and you might take more % before being able to end the stock.

This also applies to the times when you're stuck in DBuster while the opponent is already past 120%. You can't seal the stock immediately, so you'll probably take more damage before ending the stock than you would if you could cancel the Art. Running away until the Art's timer runs out is an option but you're usually ending up at a positional disadvantage by doing so (closer to the ledge or above them).

Basically, by going for DArts instead of Regular Arts, you're trading some of Shulk's ability to capitalize on every advantageous situation (and MALLC/MADC xD) for a much better neutral game (DSpeed's speed and DBuster's safety on shield) and better ability to survive at high percentages (DShield + AAS).
Both have their qualities. I think I'd go for DArts against zoners and characters that can easily get away from disadvantage.

 

[Sha-Shulk]

Decisive Arts make Shulk kinda "shift" into different characters.

Hyper Arts is for huge shifts in combat, and for MUs that are poor for Shulk

Standard is for versatility.

My ranking (from best to worst):

DA (lovin' those SPEED BUSTER SHIELD)

SA (Great all-around, nice shifts in Arts with decent cooldown)

HA (too risky for me, but if you're good at MALLC [I'm not] then it'd be worth it to try it out.)

 

[Super Smash Fanatic]

I really think HArts isn't being looked at enough. We keep talking about DArts vs regular but Hyper really puts us in extreme shulk mode. Buster can give us 50-70% when used right and and smash kills at 60%. What? The kill power is insane. Jump gives a recovery equal to that of Villager and speed makes you faster than Sonic. Shield is probably the only one that honestly loses potential with Hyper. I think we should be giving this some more exploration and disscusion

 

[Sha-Shulk]

Shield is probably the only one that honestly loses potential with Hyper.

Agreed.

I think Hyper Arts would be better if either:

A: they lasted longer
or
B: the cool down was shorter

NOTICE: I said "or". Giving HArts both proposed qualities would make it FAR superior to SArts, and maybe even DArts.

 

[Super Smash Fanatic]

I say that but in the same aspect, Smash art loses it's potential with DArts. Activate it, get the kill in 4 seconds, and then you better run for another 15 or die trying.

 

[Scieric]

1123 was my favorite set before getting into decisive. However, the decisive arts are just so powerful. Sure, I can't use my fancy looking MALLC all the time like I used to, but being an all around stronger character beats that.

Your argument by authority is wrong. Something is not made true because an authority/Jerm says it, because they are prone to error like all of us. Also, I've noticed Jerm in particular exaggerates things. MALLC is useful, but not necessary. Also, these authorities on Shulk might not be authorities on Shulk's custom moves. Jerm is definitely a great player, but there's a reason I'm helping him with his upcoming Shulk custom moves guide.

I use all the arts with decisive arts. In terms of how often I use them in a Shulk ditto, Shield > Buster ~ Speed > Smash > Jump. Of course, this all changes with MU. I might be using Jump the most in some MU's, and it's pretty good in decisive form. The Nair -> Fair -> Fair combos extend out to ridiculously late percents. And I agree that the art should be used more. All around, the art is good in the neutral. People do not like its extra damage taken, but that might be because they do not realize you're less likely to be hit in the first place.

You are free to your own preference or style, of course. Nothing's happening to the 1123 set. I just recommend you try out decisive arts in some real matches if you haven't already (do it in friendlies perhaps). The Monado's power is really brought out in decisive arts. It is an opportunity to improve Shulk gameplay, but it might not be for everyone.

I have tried it in a few matches. I don't like it. Also, the activation time gets on my nerves. I want to be able to select an Art and actually use it. I find myself doing that a lot with Monado Arts, but with DArts' longer activation time, I can't catch my opponent off guard nearly as easily. Standard Arts are much better for a more balanced, but aggressive Shulk.

Also, you actually get to help Jerm with something?! Lucky! Don't throw in your favourite set for the heck of it though. You have to work together and eventually realize...



DArts are more suited for doubles. As is Back Slash Charge.

 

[Sha-Shulk]

DArts are more suited for doubles. As is Back Slash Charge.

I think we can all agree, DArts is the best for doubles.

I also like Back Slash Charge and Dash Vision for doubles.

 

[Super Smash Fanatic]

I gotta agree with scieric and Sha-Shulk on DA for doubles, however the ability to cancel might be useful depending on who your teammate is. I.E: My doubles partner is a Sonic and Mii Gunner main, when he plays Sonic DA is my go to because the speed aggressiveness is real but when he goes Mii Gunner I bring Hyper because smash and jump work with our synergy

 

[Sha-Shulk]

I gotta agree with scieric and Sha-Shulk on DA for doubles, however the ability to cancel might be useful depending on who your teammate is. I.E: My doubles partner is a Sonic and Mii Gunner main, when he plays Sonic DA is my go to because the speed aggressiveness is real but when he goes Mii Gunner I bring Hyper because smash and jump work with our synergy

Makes sense.

I just think, as a general rule of thumb, go with DA in Doubles

 

[Scieric]

Then in singles, I believe the real debate is between Arts and HArts. With DArts practically being designed for doubles, the other 2 are obviously more singles type. However, I agree on the HArts point for doubles, but DArts just outclasses it in most other ways. (Once again, for doubles.) Also, your teammate really can change which Arts you choose. What Arts would go best with Kirby? Since he always gets standard Arts no matter what, which Arts type synergizes the most with Monado Kirby?

 

[Sha-Shulk]

Then in singles, I believe the real debate is between Arts and HArts. With DArts practically being designed for doubles, the other 2 are obviously more singles type. However, I agree on the HArts point for doubles, but DArts just outclasses it in most other ways. (Once again, for doubles.) Also, your teammate really can change which Arts you choose. What Arts would go best with Kirby? Since he always gets standard Arts no matter what, which Arts type synergizes the most with Monado Kirby?

Can a Kirby ally copy his own ally's special move? Like, can my friend (a kirby) suck me up and take my copy ability, making a Monado Kirby + DArts Shulk combo?

Also, because I can't MALLC for crap (and my main rival, a CF main, would eat me alive if I tried to, his strategy against campers and aggros is just too good) I stick with DArts. I like the huge boost, and I think the bad points (all Art customs have pros cons in both singles and doubles) of DArts aren't terrible with my strategy.

 

[Scieric]

If you learn MALLC, I will say it is far more likely that you quit DArts than if you don't learn it.

 

[Goesasu]

Then in singles, I believe the real debate is between Arts and HArts. With DArts practically being designed for doubles, the other 2 are obviously more singles type. However, I

If you learn MALLC, I will say it is far more likely that you quit DArts than if you don't learn it.

MALLC is not a reason to play an inferior version of shulk. 1 lagless landing is not worth it.

 

[erico9001]

Decisive arts are both good for doubles and singles. It's not exclusively good for either.

Basically, by going for DArts instead of Regular Arts, you're trading some of Shulk's ability to capitalize on every advantageous situation (and MALLC/MADC xD) for a much better neutral game (DSpeed's speed and DBuster's safety on shield) and better ability to survive at high percentages (DShield + AAS).

I totally agree with this. Ever since I've started using decisive arts, my Shulk gameplay has increased a lot. It's incredible. To me, at least, it actually seems like a higher tier character, because our neutral is hugely improved.

DECISIVE MONADO ARTS

Monado Art | Damage Taken | Damage Dealt | Weight Change | Jump Height | Ground Speed | Air Speed | Fall Speed | Shield Health
翔(Jump) | +22% (1.22x) | None. | None. | ++ | | +++ | +++ 疾(Speed) | None. | –20% (0.8x) | None. | – | ++ | ++ 盾(Shield) | –39.7% (0.603x) | -30% (0.7x) | ? | – | – | – | | ++ 斬(Buster) | +13% (1.13x) | +54% (1.54x) | None.
撃(Smash) | None. | –50% (0.5x) | -12.5

Let's start with Decisive Shield.
At -40% damage taken, the amount of damage your opponent does is basically the reverse of regular Monado Buster. That's a lot less damage, when you think about it. Also similar to Monado Buster is the amount of knockback they deal. Actually, maybe it's a bit more like the knockback dealt by hyper buster. It's such low knockback. Everything suddenly becomes unsafe on hit for them, and none of their combos connect together (thanks to the lesser hitstun as well). Here's something even more beautiful: they don't expect it at all. So, hello easy punishes (power vision works nicely).

Here's some examples from my field experience using decisive shield:
Mega Man hits me with a fresh Mega Upper while I'm at 70%. Ouch, right? Nah. I take 10%, am only brought like halfway to the vertical blast zone (and the stage was Delfino), and am able to fast fall/retaliate with an Fair. It was unsafe on hit.

I'm facing a Pikachu. While I'm still at 0% he hits me with his regular up B, and before I can get an attack out at him he starts comboing U-tilts together. He gets 3 on me.
**Stop reading! Predict what damage percent I am at!**
Well, the answer is I'm at nine percent. I punish his next U-tilt with power vision, which deals 13% damage.

Against the same pikachu, I'm at 37% and he goes for the F-throw -> dash attack true combo. Perfect shielded. At like 45% he grabs me again and does an F-throw, but this time predicts I'm not going to tech so he tries to for the jab lock. However, at this percent in Decisive Shield, I still can land on both of my feet without teching and have enough time to shield, see him stopping to realize he's going for a jab lock, and punish the jab with power vision. He goes for the F-throw -> dash attack again at 58%, I still don't need to tech and roll around him. Same thing happens at 76%. I'm at 92% and he U-throws me -> Thunder. Decisive Shield activated between the throw and the Thunder. How far did I go? I actually only went like one character length to the right and just fell down. Btw, this match was vs a platinum III rank on smashladder, and I only lost 1 stock out of 3.

What do you do when Zero Suit Samus hits you with her up B? Laugh, land, and start charging your F-smash. You always get out of it early with no DI. It starts to connect only at about max rage effect, so only at that point you might want to start considering DI'ing towards her during her up B. Or don't, since with max rage effect and freshness the move doesn't actually kill Decisive Shield Shulk at 150% on FD (from the ground).

Decisive Speed is next.
You are so maneuverable; it's crazy. You outpace the competition. Everything Speed does well, Decisive Speed does much better. This should be no surprise considering how huge monado shield was affected by decisive arts. Here are some benefits.
-Easier to evade.
-Easier to grab.
-Easier to space (improved air speed and air acceleration)
-Easier to break zones
-Larger combo percent ranges
-More follow-ups
-More potent off-stage carries.
-Better at getting out of combos.
-More punishes

Decisive Jump
Say goodbye to zones. The additional air speed and fall speed makes you more of a threat to zoners. It lasts a whole 20 seconds with only 5 seconds without it, so there is not really any need to worry about what to do when the art goes away. Just wait 5 seconds while maybe shielding projectiles are jumping in the air. You can count the 5 seconds if you really want.

Decisive Buster
You're now dealing 54% more damage. That is a lot. All your attacks and combos will be scary. Also, you are very safe on shields. Combo percents are almost the same as regular buster's.

Decisive Smash
Just like hyper smash, decisive smash kills surprisingly early. It's more menacing than hyper smash, because you know you can't stall it out. Eventually, Shulk's going to get that D-throw and kill you. Or almost any other move. I've killed with D-tilt in decisive smash. After getting the kill, play very defensively. It's surprisingly easy to evade enemy attacks with Shulk. Make sure to toss out some Nairs while defending to keep them on their toes. If the nair lands, the extra base/weighted knockback will send them decentlymace far, helping you in your stalling. Of course, feel free to go for a punish if you see an opportunity.

Or.. you can decide to fight more aggressively with decisive smash, in which case early gimps are somewhat easy to get. I don't personally do that, but it can work.

 

[Sha-Shulk]

MALLC is not a reason to play an inferior version of shulk. 1 lagless landing is not worth it.

What do you mean, "inferior version"? Do you mean that DArts is superior or something?

 

[Goesasu]

What do you mean, "inferior version"? Do you mean that DArts is superior or something?

Thats exactly what i said, D arts are the best version of shulk because it makes his neutral so much better than any other art.

I have explained why so many times by now, im glad that @ Scarhi and @ erico9001 share similar opinions now.

2123 is best shulk.

 

[Scarhi]

Thats exactly what i said, D arts are the best version of shulk because it makes his neutral so much better than any other art.

I have explained why so many times by now, im glad that Scarhi and erico9001 share similar opinions now.

I don't think that they're a strict upgrade from Regular Arts, though xD
As I said, I think it mostly depends on the match-up. We shouldn't stick to one set or the other, but rather adapt by picking the set that is the best against the character we're facing.

As for Doubles, I originally thought DArts would be the best but after trying them out, I found out that I actually prefer Regular Arts. This is mostly because at higher percentages I like to be able to switch between Jump and Shield at anytime to live as long as possible, by not being forced to recover predictably (as I would with Dshield+AAS), and by securing my landings by MALLCing airdodges into Shield mode.

In my country (France), the standard is non-custom though, so I'm definitely not the most knowledgeable person about them, I mostly use them in friendlies, at the occasional customs-on side event, and when I'm in a foreign country that has them legal x)

 

[Super Smash Fanatic]

Kirby can't copy customs but he can take his teammates monado

 

[Masonomace]

I really think HArts isn't being looked at enough. We keep talking about DArts vs regular but Hyper really puts us in extreme shulk mode. Buster can give us 50-70% when used right and and smash kills at 60%. What? The kill power is insane. Jump gives a recovery equal to that of Villager and speed makes you faster than Sonic. Shield is probably the only one that honestly loses potential with Hyper. I think we should be giving this some more exploration and disscusion

It feels like a bummer on my part for not bringing up HArts more, but it's understandable why. Plus the current discussion is about DArts apparently, not to mention that DArts being discussed helps players that are unaware of DArts notice that they can be good to use & not be put off as just "slightly better arts that do better in Doubles & aren't that great in Singles". The DArts' debuffs being the same level as the MArts really is a blessing. If you do the numbers & pretend for a moment what the DArt's debuffs could be, then we'd realize that it could of gone a lot worse for the DArts if they did have stronger debuffs. DArt's stronger buffs are the fine middle line between MArts & HArts.

Now HArts' numbers for the stats themselves are way off the charts yes, but they're 6 seconds long & 15 seconds of cooldown. It's not hard camping out Hyper Buster & Hyper Smash because that only requires 6 seconds of patience & disengage from the opponent to make them become a waste of time for us activating the Art for a total of 21 seconds, which is basically the duration of a DArt. Those 6 seconds of camping them out without needing to approach us leads to 15 seconds of waiting for that Art & that hurts, especially for impatient players. @ Sha-Shulk mentioned that if HArts lasted longer or the cooldown was shorter, then they'd be better. I won't go too into it but if it were up to me I'd make them last longer -- 8 seconds would be fine. It's not a plausible explanation, but I'd want them to last 8 seconds instead of 6 for a decent pattern: standard Arts last 16 seconds, so if HArts were to be exactly half the duration they last it would look cleaner. A DArt's cooldown is 5 seconds, standard is 10 seconds, & HArts being 15 looks like a clean pattern of frames as well. With that said, 6 seconds is definitely a turn-off when you didn't accomplish that Art's intentions in that time-span & it feels even worse knowing you're waiting 15 seconds before you can try it again.

Basically I feel that HArts require much more stage control in Shulk's favor before we go popping on a HArt, otherwise the opponent will catch on to the situation & be able to camp it out. Looking at it from a time-based perspective, we shouldn't waste a HArt's duration, so we better think before we cycle to it.

 

[Scieric]

Decisive arts are both good for doubles and singles. It's not exclusively good for either.

I totally agree with this. Ever since I've started using decisive arts, my Shulk gameplay has increased a lot. It's incredible. To me, at least, it actually seems like a higher tier character, because our neutral is hugely improved.


Let's start with Decisive Shield.
At -40% damage taken, the amount of damage your opponent does is basically the reverse of regular Monado Buster. That's a lot less damage, when you think about it. Also similar to Monado Buster is the amount of knockback they deal. Actually, maybe it's a bit more like the knockback dealt by hyper buster. It's such low knockback. Everything suddenly becomes unsafe on hit for them, and none of their combos connect together (thanks to the lesser hitstun as well). Here's something even more beautiful: they don't expect it at all. So, hello easy punishes (power vision works nicely).

Here's some examples from my field experience using decisive shield:
Mega Man hits me with a fresh Mega Upper while I'm at 70%. Ouch, right? Nah. I take 10%, am only brought like halfway to the vertical blast zone (and the stage was Delfino), and am able to fast fall/retaliate with an Fair. It was unsafe on hit.

I'm facing a Pikachu. While I'm still at 0% he hits me with his regular up B, and before I can get an attack out at him he starts comboing U-tilts together. He gets 3 on me.
**Stop reading! Predict what damage percent I am at!**
Well, the answer is I'm at nine percent. I punish his next U-tilt with power vision, which deals 13% damage.

Against the same pikachu, I'm at 37% and he goes for the F-throw -> dash attack true combo. Perfect shielded. At like 45% he grabs me again and does an F-throw, but this time predicts I'm not going to tech so he tries to for the jab lock. However, at this percent in Decisive Shield, I still can land on both of my feet without teching and have enough time to shield, see him stopping to realize he's going for a jab lock, and punish the jab with power vision. He goes for the F-throw -> dash attack again at 58%, I still don't need to tech and roll around him. Same thing happens at 76%. I'm at 92% and he U-throws me -> Thunder. Decisive Shield didn't activated between the throw and the Thunder. How far did I go? I actually only went like one character length to the right and just fell down. Btw, this match was vs a platinum III rank on smashladder, and I only lost 1 stock out of 3.

What do you do when Zero Suit Samus hits you with her up B? Laugh, land, and start charging your F-smash. You always get out of it early with no DI. It starts to connect only at about max rage effect, so only at that point you might want to start considering DI'ing towards her during her up B. Or don't, since with max rage effect and freshness the move doesn't actually kill Decisive Shield Shulk at 150% on FD (from the ground).

Decisive Speed is next.
You are so maneuverable; it's crazy. You outpace the competition. Everything Speed does well, Decisive Speed does much better. This should be no surprise considering how huge monado shield was affected by decisive arts. Here are some benefits.
-Easier to evade.
-Easier to grab.
-Easier to space (improved air speed and air acceleration)
-Easier to break zones
-Larger combo percent ranges
-More follow-ups
-More potent off-stage carries.
-Better at getting out of combos.
-More punishes

Decisive Jump
Say goodbye to zones. The additional air speed and fall speed makes you more of a threat to zoners. It lasts a whole 20 seconds with only 5 seconds without it, so there is not really any need to worry about what to do when the art goes away. Just wait 5 seconds while maybe shielding projectiles are jumping in the air. You can count the 5 seconds if you really want.

Decisive Buster
You're now dealing 54% more damage. That is a lot. All your attacks and combos will be scary. Also, you are very safe on shields. Combo percents are almost the same as regular buster's.

Decisive Smash
Just like hyper smash, decisive smash kills surprisingly early. It's more menacing than hyper smash, because you know you can't stall it out. Eventually, Shulk's going to get that D-throw and kill you. Or almost any other move. I've killed with D-tilt in decisive smash. After getting the kill, play very defensively. It's surprisingly easy to evade enemy attacks with Shulk. Make sure to toss out some Nairs while defending to keep them on their toes. If the nair lands, the extra base/weighted knockback will send them decentlymace far, helping you in your stalling. Of course, feel free to go for a punish if you see an opportunity.

Or.. you can decide to fight more aggressively with decisive smash, in which case early gimps are somewhat easy to get. I don't personally do that, but it can work.

This is quite interesting. But it still stands that being able to switch Monado Arts whenever you want is too good an attribute to lose. Think about the Lucario matchup. Let's say you get him to kill% earlier than expected in Decisive Buster. He now has high Aura and the only thing you can do is tack on more damage. Also about Decisive Buster, think about a Shulk ditto. You are in Decisive Buster dealing insane amounts of damage. Then he Power Visions you and due to the likely insane damage he just countered, instant KO. This follows for all characters with counters, but Shulk's is the most effective. Now Decisive Smash, you'd better get the kill at the end of those 20 seconds, otherwise, you are useless. Can't deal damage, and easy to kill. Cancellation ability is too good an attribute to give up. DSheild is pretty good, though.

 

[Masonomace]

Think about the Lucario matchup. Let's say you get him to kill% earlier than expected in Decisive Buster.

Stop right there. I especially know as well as any Lucario player would know that a competent Shulk who uses DArts will realize that Decisive Smash can seal Lucario's stock as early as the ~70 - 90% range with a variety of moves with or without Rage as a factor. Don't even go as far as saying "to kill% earlier than expected". MatchUps are to be respected with how you handle the Standard Decisve & Hyper Arts, & it would be a foolish thing to use DBuster mindlessly by thinking of racking damage on Lucario with it. If someone rolled DArts vs Lucario & were fully aware of the MatchUp, DBuster Shulk could reserve being hasty with dealing damage & instead bully Lucario's shield better than Buster Shulk could since Lucario has one of if not thee highest traction values. Ofc perfect shields make that point irrelevant, but what a Lucario could do to punish Buster Shulk's aerials upon landing with a dash grab, Lucario could not punish Decisive Buster Shulk's aerials upon landing.

Also about Decisive Buster, think about a Shulk ditto. You are in Decisive Buster dealing insane amounts of damage. Then he Power Visions you and due to the likely insane damage he just countered, instant KO. This follows for all characters with counters, but Shulk's is the most effective.

Again, DBuster Shulk should pay more mind to the Shulk player's habits of using their shield versus the moments the Shulk player thinks of using PV especially if it were Shield Shulk DShield Shulk or HShield Shulk because of the massive hitstun reduction / frame advantage the Shield Arts would have over the Buster Arts. You're right that it applies with all characters with counters especially Shulk, but there are characters with counters that do not scale with a damage multiplier such as:

• Paralyzing Counter

• Double Team
• Stunning Double Team

• Substitute
• Substitute Ambush

• Toad
• Sleepy Toad

Now Decisive Smash, you'd better get the kill at the end of those 20 seconds, otherwise, you are useless. Can't deal damage, and easy to kill. Cancellation ability is too good an attribute to give up.

Most of this is true, but you can't write off DSmash Shulk as useless if he doesn't get the KO nearing the end of the DArt's duration. You can go for the KO as quickly or as patiently as you want, because you chose to stick yourself in a stronger Smash Art for 20 seconds. Play with what DSmash Shulk has, & that my friend is:

• Increased knockback you deal, meaning you can space yourself to the utmost maximum with all sourspots since your sweetspots neither deal enough damage on shield nor shield knockback to make them at all safe
• Increased knockback you take / decreased weight, helping you avoid combos from aerials or throws
• The decreased damage on hit & on shield + less shield knockback, which favors the idea of going for a grab which would launch them at further distances to setup for edge-guard opportunities possibly leading to a gimp, early KO, or utilize the longer time it takes for them to come back to the stage to confront you

DSheild is pretty good, though.