Let's talk: Nintendo & Melee (Evo, MLG...etc.)

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

First of all I want to congratulate the whole community, I'm proud of you all because you are the reason our game is finally getting recognition. I think people like Gimr and Chibo who run professional live-streams and people like Prog and D1 who do professional commentary are individuals who are extremely important to the whole community.

As many of you probably know, the organizers of EVO are in contact with Nintendo whether or not they let Melee to be featured at this year's tournament. With rumors of Melee (without even mentioning P:M!) being featured in MLG this year I'm seeing that Nintendo finally HAS to recognize the competitive community of Smash. Melee is getting BIG, there's no way around it.

So what do you think will happen? What stance will Nintendo take with all this? What about Project M? Do you think they let it be?

I think that with statements from Sakurai that Smash 4 will be a balanced solution between casual and competitive, we've already made a lot of progress.

I want to hear what you guys think, what is the future of this game? (Other than "Fox")

 

[Metal Gear Salad]

I still think they should leave it. Yes, it may somehow lose about <0.5% of smash 4 sales, but on the upside, if they release melee on the virtual console at £15/$20, they would easily regain that loss, if there ever was one anyway.

 

[La_Popo]

In this kind of situation it's usually best to hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
That being said, I think they'll let it stream.

 

[rawrimamonster]

Well, we all know when it comes to competitive communities and certain policies that Nintendo is ass-backwards. So much so that even if it would help build hype for smash 4, they might cut it off just to stomp their foot and say "NO!" because...that's what Nintendo does. That said, I would hope that the last EVO left them with a good sense of what we're about and what the competitive community can do for hype for their upcoming game and smash bros in general.

I do agree they'll probably let it stream but from our communities past experiences with them I wouldn't be shocked if they didn't allow it.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Well, we all know when it comes to competitive communities and certain policies that Nintendo is ***-backwards. So much so that even if it would help build hype for smash 4, they might cut it off just to stomp their foot and say "NO!" because...that's what Nintendo does. That said, I would hope that the last EVO left them with a good sense of what we're about and what the competitive community can do for hype for their upcoming game and smash bros in general.

Yes, that is well known, unfortunately. But my question was do you think it will change in the future?

 

[rawrimamonster]

Yes, that is well known, unfortunately. But my question was do you think it will change in the future?

That's the thing about Nintendo, they're like bipolar or something. They'll accept it one week then go HURR WE OWN THIS GAME U DONT TOO BAD the next. There's really no way to tell because they HATE competitive gameplay. I think honestly it's just different people in their legal department being asked at different times. Nintendo seems to have procedures for these things they tell their different departments to use when handling legal matters.

 

[Bones0]

I think they're going to draw out the process as long as possible and then finally say no, by which point they will be hoping the hype will be gone and people won't blow up like last year. It also just hurts attendence logistically because people need to purchase plane tickets and book hotel rooms as early as possible. Every passing week will cause more and more people to decide not to go even if it does get accepted. This is why I was trying to tell people to contact Nintendo to express interest early on in the MioM FaceBook group, but prog seems to think we should just sit around and wait for Nintendo to say no first, and apparently dissenting opinions aren't allowed in the group since I got banned.

 

[Diana's Safe Landing]

I think they're going to draw out the process as long as possible and then finally say no, by which point they will be hoping the hype will be gone and people won't blow up like last year. It also just hurts attendence logistically because people need to purchase plane tickets and book hotel rooms as early as possible. Every passing week will cause more and more people to decide not to go even if it does get accepted. This is why I was trying to tell people to contact Nintendo to express interest early on in the MioM FaceBook group, but prog seems to think we should just sit around and wait for Nintendo to say no first, and apparently dissenting opinions aren't allowed in the group since I got banned.

Yea it's ridiculous, all this uncertainty will definitely hurt attendance. And that ban sounds totally immature sorry to hear that it happened >_>

 

[prog]

I think they're going to draw out the process as long as possible and then finally say no, by which point they will be hoping the hype will be gone and people won't blow up like last year. It also just hurts attendence logistically because people need to purchase plane tickets and book hotel rooms as early as possible. Every passing week will cause more and more people to decide not to go even if it does get accepted. This is why I was trying to tell people to contact Nintendo to express interest early on in the MioM FaceBook group, but prog seems to think we should just sit around and wait for Nintendo to say no first, and apparently dissenting opinions aren't allowed in the group since I got banned.

I didn't ban you, especially not based on that point. I did state that if people are going to message Nintendo, do it with class, tact, and numbers.

 

[Bones0]

I didn't ban you, especially not based on that point. I did state that if people are going to message Nintendo, do it with class, tact, and numbers.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply you were the one that had banned me. It just seemed like I got removed from the group because I was disagreeing with your position of not contacting Nintendo at all (even though I made it quite clear that being hostile was a horrible idea).

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

If Nintendo really decides to turn down EVO I don't see Melee being at MLG either. I don't think they would do such a ****ty move though.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

I wrote this letter and sent it to http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/webform/

"Please let Super Smash Bros. Melee to be featured at Evo 2014 tournament. Our community has worked VERY hard in order to grow competitively and to get our game featured in larger events.

Dear Nintendo, why do you hate the competitive community? I'm a competitive Super Smash Bros. Melee player. Last year the Melee community raised over 90,000 dollars for cancer research just to get Melee to be featured at EVO 2013-tournament. Few weeks before the tournament Nintendo decided that Melee could not be lived-streamed. The community raised hell and fortunately Nintendo decided to let the event to be streamed.

http://kotaku.com/nintendo-wont-let-top-fighting-game-tournament-stream-724293474

Now, one year later the EVO staff is in contact with Nintendo whether or not they will allow Melee to be featured in the tournament. I don't understand Nintendo's policy on this matter, various other gaming companies are EMBRACING the competitive community because it raises awareness of the game AND is also good for the business. Completely ignoring the competitive crowd is an IDIOTIC line of policy, especially since Smash 4 is about to be released possibly this year. Nintendo should get on with the times, unless they want to end up like SEGA did.

That's all what I have to say. Once again, please let Super Smash Bros. Melee to be featured at EVO 2014 and also other major upcoming events.

Thank you."

 

[The_NZA]

I wrote this letter and sent it to http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/webform/

"Please let Super Smash Bros. Melee to be featured at Evo 2014 tournament. Our community has worked VERY hard in order to grow competitively and to get our game featured in larger events.

Dear Nintendo, why do you hate the competitive community? I'm a competitive Super Smash Bros. Melee player. Last year the Melee community raised over 90,000 dollars for cancer research just to get Melee to be featured at EVO 2013-tournament. Few weeks before the tournament Nintendo decided that Melee could not be lived-streamed. The community raised hell and fortunately Nintendo decided to let the event to be streamed.

http://kotaku.com/nintendo-wont-let-top-fighting-game-tournament-stream-724293474

Now, one year later the EVO staff is in contact with Nintendo whether or not they will allow Melee to be featured in the tournament. I don't understand Nintendo's policy on this matter, various other gaming companies are EMBRACING the competitive community because it raises awareness of the game AND is also good for the business. Completely ignoring the competitive crowd is an IDIOTIC line of policy, especially since Smash 4 is about to be released possibly this year. Nintendo should get on with the times, unless they want to end up like SEGA did.

That's all what I have to say. Once again, please let Super Smash Bros. Melee to be featured at EVO 2014 and also other major upcoming events.

Thank you."

Your letter was good in intention but was ruined when you said this:

"Dear Nintendo, why do you hate the competitive community?"

It makes the community look like children. Nintendo is worried about its BUSINESS, not some childish vendetta against .00001% of smash purchasers. For them, its about branding and what they want the image of their game conflated with. Is it illogical? Sure, but that doesn't mean you should go ahead and state it all in the open when you are making a plea to a megacorporation.

Get across your passion, get across your desire, and get across your love of the game and company. But if you are going to spit in the face of of your captor, better not to say anything at all.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Your letter was good in intention but was ruined when you said this:

"Dear Nintendo, why do you hate the competitive community?"

This question is reasonable because I simply cannot fathom the logic behind Nintendo's decisions. And I'm not the only one. The question simply implies that I'm so confused about Nintendo's stance on competitive community that I have no other option but to assume that they hate us. This, of course, sounds ridiculous but it's for the purposes of making a point. In reality, obviously, I do not believe a company hates part of it's customer base. I'm simply trying to make them understand that their decisions are actually HURTING them.

Of course Nintendo is all about business, even more so I don't understand their decisions, as written in the letter.
I would've written differently if my main goal would've been to represent the community, instead I wanted to take a personal approach and tell them how I feel. Nintendo is a company and companies are dependent on their customers, not the other way around. I am angry, and I feel like I have the right to be. A single message like mine is not going to make a difference, unless it was mass posted. And it won't be because it's a personal statement and not a pathetic attempt to figuratively kiss Nintendo's ass trying to act polite.

 

[Nana Saves Popo]

This was my e-mail to them

"
Dear Nintendo,

I have been a huge fan of you're games since my thumbs were big enough to press buttons. Zelda, Pokemon, Mega-Man and Castlevania were my childhood and I cannot thank you enough for the wonderful memories. It is with a heavy heart that I write this for I hate to complain to a company that has given me so much, but I must implore you to allow the streaming of Super Smash Brothers Melee at EVO 2014. While I understand that the competitive side of Melee occurred as an accident it is important to understand the implications of this move. While I understand that the SSB series was based on the idea of being a party fighting game then I see no reason that it cannot be that and more! The reason that SSBM evolved into a competitive game is because people fell in love with what I believe to be one of the best games ever released. People loved (and continue to love) the game so much that they would commit hours to being the best. While I understand the concern that this type of gameplay detracts from the party game mentality of SSB I don't agree with this statement. As a competitive player I can say I lose many matches to people significantly less "skilled" than me when playing with more then 2 people. Competitive gameplay only truly occurs in 1 v 1 or 2 v 2 matches. In any other form then the game succeeds at being the only true party fighting game. And even in 1 v 1 or 2 v 2 simply by taking the match to a non-tournament stage or using items then the party game that Smash can be comes out instantly! It is only a particular group who WANT to play competitively that stray from this.

And so, with SSB4 being released in the near future I think now more than ever it is important for Nintendo to show that they are NOT catering to one group of gamers, but to ALL gamers. There have always, and will always be people who play SSB as a fun, light-hearted game. That being said this does not justify Nintendo outright attacking and preventing the evolution of those that helped drive Melee to be the best selling game on the Gamecube! The Smash Brothers scene has evolved and while I understand the fear of turning it into a competitive fighting game then SSB is different from other fighting games. Unlike Street Fighter or Mortal Combat, SSB uses simple controls that allow anyone to enter, use all their characters attacks, and be a part of the action. Please understand that the people who you hurt the most by preventing Melee streams are the die-hard Nintendo fans who want nothing more then to play your video game and bring one of Nintendo's most famous titles to a larger audience. I do not want you to change SSB to a more competitive style, I simply ask that you allow us to share the beautiful game that you gave the world and show them just how amazing the series truly is!

Thank you so much for everything, you guys with Melee alone have done more for my gaming life than Microsoft and Sony combined!

Keep making amazing games, all I ask is that you acknowledge a scene that wants to do nothing more then increase the amount of Smash that is played and the audience it reaches. The competitive smash scene is actually the most friendly "competitive" scene I have ever been involved in! People want to help, people want to share, people want to play, people want to stream, and people want to watch streams.

Make the right choice and show the gamers that love you why Nintendo was, is, and will forever be the company most dedicated to its gamers!

You guys rock,
-My Name"

 

[Metal Gear Salad]

First line, your*

It looks fine. It's tough trying to find a balance between 12 year old and ass kisser. While the guy before you came across as the former, I feel you're leaning towards the latter.

Not a dig, just an observation.

 

[Nana Saves Popo]

I'd rather kiss *** if it means I can see EVO's melee from wherever I may be

 

[KirbyKaze]

First of all I want to congratulate the whole community, I'm proud of you all because you are the reason our game is finally getting recognition. I think people like Gimr and Chibo who run professional live-streams and people like Prog and D1 who do professional commentary are individuals who are extremely important to the whole community.

As many of you probably know, the organizers of EVO are in contact with Nintendo whether or not they let Melee to be featured at this year's tournament. With rumors of Melee (without even mentioning P:M!) being featured in MLG this year I'm seeing that Nintendo finally HAS to recognize the competitive community of Smash. Melee is getting BIG, there's no way around it.

So what do you think will happen? What stance will Nintendo take with all this? What about Project M? Do you think they let it be?

I think that with statements from Sakurai that Smash 4 will be a balanced solution between casual and competitive, we've already made a lot of progress.

I want to hear what you guys think, what is the future of this game? (Other than "Fox")

Personally I think they're gonna give us the finger again but I really hope they don't.

 

[Vypereus]

I think they're going to draw out the process as long as possible and then finally say no, by which point they will be hoping the hype will be gone and people won't blow up like last year. It also just hurts attendence logistically because people need to purchase plane tickets and book hotel rooms as early as possible. Every passing week will cause more and more people to decide not to go even if it does get accepted.

This is what could really screw everything up. Honestly, I really just hope for an early answer so people can figure out what to do.

 

[Massive]

Think about it this way:

EVO makes some pretty good money just off of advertising revenue. Nintendo will not (directly) get a cent of that money, despite their game being one of the big draws (150k viewers last year). In fact, they will likely not get any money at all since they no longer produce copies of melee.

So what do you do if you're Nintendo and they're using/possibly misrepresenting your flagship brands to make money for themselves without paying you anything? You say NO.

We also didn't drop 100k towards saving boobs this year, leaving us with no PR ****storm trap card in play.

But who knows, maybe Nintendo will realize that the competitive scene bought far more of their WiiUs than the general population and are their most loyal and dedicated fans? Maybe they'll throw us a bone? I'm not confident about it.

 

[EPsilon933]

Show them why Melee at EVO is a good thing

Competitive gaming is getting big fast

Smash 4 is coming out who knows when? Melee on a stream with 135,000 viewers is advertising the series to that growing audience

Wii U is selling like boxed cancer

Smash 4 was 1 of the most hyped games at E3 last year. Wouldn't it be reasonable to guess that a lot of people are waiting for it to release before getting a Wii U?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Has anyone considered that Nintendo may just not want the Wii U to sell?

 

[Theftz22]

Dear Nintendo of America,

I understand that certain individuals at your company are currently making a decision on allowing the Evo Championship Series to stream Super Smash Bros Melee at their event. I understand that it is within your company's full rights to deny this request. I am also not going to pretend that I have done the complex calculations necessary to determine what, if any, effect this would have on your revenue. Frankly, I am not sure that there is even enough data to do such a calculation, though I suspect the affects would be quite minimal.

What I will say is that if your company does decide to allow Evo to stream Super Smash Bros Melee, you will be making tens of thousands of your most loyal fans happy. These are people who grew up with every Nintendo console, and eat, sleep, and breathe your products. Your decision can either help these people or let them down when they need it most. I hope you make the right decision.

Sincerely,
_____________________

 

[Bones0]

Wii U is selling like boxed cancer

No wonder Nintendo was so upset with the donation drive for last year's Evo.

 

[rawrimamonster]

Think about it this way:

EVO makes some pretty good money just off of advertising revenue. Nintendo will not (directly) get a cent of that money, despite their game being one of the big draws (150k viewers last year). In fact, they will likely not get any money at all since they no longer produce copies of melee.

So what do you do if you're Nintendo and they're using/possibly misrepresenting your flagship brands to make money for themselves without paying you anything? You say NO.

We also didn't drop 100k towards saving boobs this year, leaving us with no PR ****storm trap card in play.

But who knows, maybe Nintendo will realize that the competitive scene bought far more of their WiiUs than the general population and are their most loyal and dedicated fans? Maybe they'll throw us a bone? I'm not confident about it.

Well, concerning what you said about them wanting money, I look at it this way at this point. WiiU was named and made to pander to the casual audience once again. Nintendo failed with this and hard, the casuals are gone and they do not care about gaming, and if they do they moved onto PC gaming or competitors brands. If they're butthurt at all about money, why don't they just host some tournaments themselves (while not cockblocking other tournaments hosted by players) and give pay outs from entry fees? It'd be a good hype builder for their own series, bring back core audiences, and show that they're ready to come back to the real Nintendo audiences that they lost with Wii and its casualization of gaming and Nintendo IP's.

Only problem I'd see is them trying to force items/smashballs on...which is a big deal in the competitive sense, but still them hosting any tournament event would be big in itself for their public image and ours.

 

[Teriko]

So this is the response my email got and is all what I really wanted to hear. Just be polite and show them you like their games. You don't have to overdo it.

--------------------------------------------------
"Hello,



Thank you for taking the time to write to us with your feedback regarding Super Smash Bros. Melee, and for your patience while waiting for our response. It's great to hear that you've made new friends because of your shared enjoyment of watching Super Smash Bros. games at a competitive level. We're also as excited as you for the next Super Smash Bros. games!


I can certainly understand your thoughts on this matter and want you to know how much we appreciate you sending them in. I also want to assure you that your comments will be added to our records and made available for other departments at the company to use as they see fit.


Sincerely,



Nintendo of America Inc.
<Removed name>"

 

[The_NZA]

So this is the response my email got and is all what I really wanted to hear. Just be polite and show them you like their games. You don't have to overdo it.

--------------------------------------------------
Hello,



Thank you for taking the time to write to us with your feedback regarding Super Smash Bros. Melee, and for your patience while waiting for our response. It's great to hear that you've made new friends because of your shared enjoyment of watching Super Smash Bros. games at a competitive level. We're also as excited as you for the next Super Smash Bros. games!


I can certainly understand your thoughts on this matter and want you to know how much we appreciate you sending them in. I also want to assure you that your comments will be added to our records and made available for other departments at the company to use as they see fit.


Sincerely,



Nintendo of America Inc.

Holy ****. We need to all start writing letters. Now. Where did you write to, may I ask?

 

[Teriko]

Holy ****. We need to all start writing letters. Now. Where did you write to, may I ask?

Used the link Novi posted: http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/webform/
Type of question / issue: 'Other: Events, Corporate Questions, etc.'

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

I also received a reply to my (angry) letter

"Hello, Thank you for taking the time to write to us with your feedback regarding Super Smash Bros. Melee at the EVO 2014 tournament, and for your patience while waiting for our response. We do not have any information to announce or provide at this time, but I can certainly understand your thoughts on this matter and want you to know how much we appreciate you sending them in. I also want to assure you that your comments will be added to our records and made available for other departments at the company to use as they see fit. Sincerely, "

 

[Zodiac]

Evo probably won't be able to convince nintendo to let them have melee in the line up, if anything its going to be the same community effort that overturned nintendo's decision to cut streaming rights last year. I honestly think that if the community doesn't get involved in a very big way soon we won't see melee at evo this year.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Evo probably won't be able to convince nintendo to let them have melee in the line up, if anything its going to be the same community effort that overturned nintendo's decision to cut streaming rights last year. I honestly think that if the community doesn't get involved in a very big way soon we won't see melee at evo this year.

I agree. **** Nintendo, **** them to hell. Consumers shouldn't be asskissing a company, it should be the other way around. They NEED us to buy their ****. If Nintendo decides to block Melee I'm planning to start a boycotting effort.

 

[Massive]

If Nintendo decides to block Melee I'm planning to start a boycotting effort.

Good luck.
If Nintendo doesn't want melee at EVO, a few dozen (tops) people not buying their products won't change their mind.

On top of that, no amount of company boycotting will prevent people from buying another pokemon game and you know it.

If they don't want their game at EVO there is **** all we can do about it.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Good luck.

Thanks man!

I'm going to do it regardless

 

[Bones0]

I think boycotting doesn't have much potency in modern society. It's great when used in combination with other forms of protest, but simply not buying Nintendo stuff doesn't do anything. Even if there was a noticeable drop in purchases (which there won't be ofc), the drop could be attributed to a million things besides no Melee at Evo boycotting. In an age where companies fiend for advertising consumers 24/7, the best way to get back at them is by giving them a taste of their own medicine. By that, I mean advertising how bad and fail Nintendo is. Last year's decision was reversed as quickly as it was because a company's reputation is infinitely more valuable than their actual revenue at any given time. A company can have a bad quarter and turn it around and make up for it relatively easily. Recovering from a tarnished reputation is much harder because that's the main benefit of capitalism. Consumers get to pick from multiple different companies, so they almost always go for the one they recognize as a "good" company. This effect has a much larger impact than a temporary boycott because it affects sales far into the future. Just think how many people aren't buying the Xbone because of their horrible release; if those people switch to the PS4 and are satisfied, Microsoft could very well lose them as customers for several more generations to come.

tl;dr - Nintendo's strategy of not saying jack**** is so good precisely because no one can get upset about them "talking" about the possibility of Evo. I really hope I don't have to say "I told you so", but the initial push from community leaders to just wait passively was probably digging our own grave.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

The problem is we don't have a legitimate reason to complain without sounding like whiny little kids. Last year, the community raised over 93k for the spot so we had a reason to be angry at Nintendo. I do agree that it's pretty stupid to just sit and wait, but there's not much we can do that won't make the community look like entitled little kids.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

I think boycotting doesn't have much potency in modern society. It's great when used in combination with other forms of protest, but simply not buying Nintendo stuff doesn't do anything.

I think I should look up the term boycotting because in my mind it includes efforts to bring down a company's reputation in addition to refusal to buy the products.

The problem is we don't have a legitimate reason to complain without sounding like whiny little kids. Last year, the community raised over 93k for the spot so we had a reason to be angry at Nintendo. I do agree that it's pretty stupid to just sit and wait, but there's not much we can do that won't make the community look like entitled little kids.

I disagree. 93k we raised is still a legitimate reason this year, and the next year. Because it will always be one of the greatest efforts of our community in addition to other important reasons. We have more than enough reasons to "whine", trough years of hard work on community growth we've finally gotten to the point where major players (EVO, MLG) are picking up the game once more. And Nintendo seems to want to ruin it all, like it always has. Even the fact that Nintendo is anti-competitive against Smash is getting more well known because of the people in this community speaking it up. I don't understand people that afraid that "Oh don't hate on Nintendo then they NEVER gonna let Melee free". **** that. People are what change companies. Competitive gaming is getting bigger every day and even Nintendo realizes this fact. Which I don't absolute understand the stubborn corporate CEO ****s that seem to think that ****ting on the competitive Smash community would be in any way to their advantage.

 

[Krynxe]

An issue, like bones0 implied with his post on reputation, is that last year was a severely different situation from this year. Nintendo was the antagonist as soon as they said "no", because their "no" to streaming was viewed as a "no" to 90k+ in Cancer Research and the efforts of the Melee community as a whole. By the public eye, that's just Nintendo being completely unreasonable, hurting their reputation immensely unless they reconsider - which they did. This year, we haven't raised any money for cancer research. We haven't even made our efforts as public. This year, the conversation is being held solely between Nintendo, and Evo/MLG staff, and the Melee community. (conversation being a rather ironic choice of words) This time, we don't have other groups who participated like the Skullgirls community, thousands of Kotaku followers, or other similar outside factors to help convince them. We have us, and a "no" to us is no different from what it's been for the last decade. Whether or not we should try to convince Nintendo that they are being antagonistic, I'm not certain of. But we really should not be sitting on this any longer. Even if we get some copy-pasted response about our concerns, it still took the effort of some employee to do that. Please, speak up to nintendo

 

[JacopeX]

http://shoryuken.com/2014/03/12/super-smash-bros-melee-joins-the-evo-2014-roster/

Get hyped!

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

I think they're going to draw out the process as long as possible and then finally say no, by which point they will be hoping the hype will be gone and people won't blow up like last year. It also just hurts attendence logistically because people need to purchase plane tickets and book hotel rooms as early as possible. Every passing week will cause more and more people to decide not to go even if it does get accepted. This is why I was trying to tell people to contact Nintendo to express interest early on in the MioM FaceBook group, but prog seems to think we should just sit around and wait for Nintendo to say no first, and apparently dissenting opinions aren't allowed in the group since I got banned.

HAHA YOU WERE WROOOOOONG

 

[Bones0]

HAHA YOU WERE WROOOOOONG

I knew it all along, but didn't want to get your hopes up just in case.