Guide Let's Step Up the Intensity: Wii Fit Competitive Discussion and Advanced Techs

[⑨ball]

Has anyone thought of Jab3 after a jablock?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0IYSmXCMN8
This is a true combo on Ryu, you may escape the Reverse Fair if he DI the right way. It mey not kill if the player is mashing fast enough.

Best options after a jablock are always nair combos (usually soft nair>usmash) for vertical kills and damage or fsmash/dmash for horizontal kills. Most of the time you won't even be able to jab lock until these options kill naturally anyway.

Though touching on grounding, I've been looking into safer kill confirms and it seems like rage might increase the "depth" of grounding, extending the time we get to pull off stuff. Still not enough to get what we really want (FF nair) but makes other options we occasionally need to walk forward for more viable.

 

[Lvl99Gamer]

Best options after a jablock are always nair combos (usually soft nair>usmash) for vertical kills and damage or fsmash/dmash for horizontal kills. Most of the time you won't even be able to jab lock until these options kill naturally anyway.

Though touching on grounding, I've been looking into safer kill confirms and it seems like rage might increase the "depth" of grounding, extending the time we get to pull off stuff. Still not enough to get what we really want (FF nair) but makes other options we occasionally need to walk forward for more viable.

I find it tough to kill with Wii fit in general, while I have a pretty good win ratio with Wii fit I do spend 90 percent of my time off-stage trying to bait my opponents in fighting me there as I find her a bit lacking in close quarters combat.
My patch wishlist would be a fix to her atrocious grab and pummel (is it actually the worst in the game?), that whistle sound to be played when the smash attack comes out and not when it charges and maybe make her throw combo into something.

 

[Champ Gold]

The one thing I like his more grab setups and options.

Maybe some low percent F-Throw setups

 

[BTVolta]

Not sure if this is the correct place for this but I don't think it needs its own thread.

Does anyone know the actual rhythm for super hoop? Sixteenth notes, dotted eighths, etc?

 

[SteadyDisciple]

Not sure if this is the correct place for this but I don't think it needs its own thread.

Does anyone know the actual rhythm for super hoop? Sixteenth notes, dotted eighths, etc?

Do you mean the rate at which you need to press the button to achieve maximum height? Even if you do I don't have your answer, but wanted to make sure that we're all on the same page.

(Also, units of measurement of rhythm to measure rate don't work without a tempo marking, so if I'm right about what you're asking that wouldn't be a useful example.)

 

[BTVolta]

Do you mean the rate at which you need to press the button to achieve maximum height? Even if you do I don't have your answer, but wanted to make sure that we're all on the same page.

(Also, units of measurement of rhythm to measure rate don't work without a tempo marking, so if I'm right about what you're asking that wouldn't be a useful example.)

True true, but ya we're on the same page.

 

[Lakuto]

Best options after a jablock are always nair combos (usually soft nair>usmash) for vertical kills and damage or fsmash/dmash for horizontal kills. Most of the time you won't even be able to jab lock until these options kill naturally anyway.

I total agree, I'm just trying to find some new things. Speeking of Nair, if you do a move on someone buried the knocback is cut in half. So after the bury on my video, hitting Ryu with the two hits of Nair then UpSmash is actually a true combo (it barely kills).
Just wanted to put it here so we can talk options out of bury and whatnot.

 

[Champ Gold]

I hate that I can't gimp with Nair anymore.

It's kinda of a really bad move to use off stage since it sends the opponent upwards

 

[Jlp]

Does anybody know how to do the backwards sliding Utilt Waveguider does right after he KO's Mario in this video?

1.56 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssNbpzz3Ob8

 

[Lakuto]

Does anybody know how to do the backwards sliding Utilt Waveguider does right after he KO's Mario in this video?

1.56 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssNbpzz3Ob8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssNbpzz3Ob8

Run to the left > dash to the right > input crouch (you will slide to the right) > crouch backward while sliding > let go of crouch (still hold the stick to the left).
If done right you'll slide like him and can do whatever move you want (here Uptilt). This works only if you slide to the left though.

 

[Jlp]

Cheers Lakuto , been working on my movement a lot lately and thought that looked pretty stylish

 

[Hammy213]

Run to the left > dash to the right > input crouch (you will slide to the right) > crouch backward while sliding > let go of crouch (still hold the stick to the left).
If done right you'll slide like him and can do whatever move you want (here Uptilt). This works only if you slide to the left though.

Is there a video u can show how to do this? I am having trouble getting this down

 

[Lakuto]

Is there a video u can show how to do this? I am having trouble getting this down

I don't have any editing skill nor capture card so if I were to do the video you'll only see me do the tech step by step as a replay. If it's ok to you I'll do it. I'm sure someone already covered this but can't find a video on Youtube...

 

[Hammy213]

I don't have any editing skill nor capture card so if I were to do the video you'll only see me do the tech step by step as a replay. If it's ok to you I'll do it. I'm sure someone already covered this but can't find a video on Youtube...

Its fine. Can u just record it on vine and then post it here? Just like on ur phone? Thx for helping

 

[Hammy213]

Ok. I finally got the sliding tech to work but does the tech work when running right to left?

 

[⑨ball]

Ok. I finally got the sliding tech to work but does the tech work when running right to left?

Most of the info is already covered HERE.
I've learned a bit more about it since then, but all the basic you need to get going including a vid by Nixul is all there.

As for running right to left, it works in the sense that you are still in a neutral state and can do instant normals, crouch, shield ect. but you don't get the huge momentum boosts that you do going left to right. Luckily the boosts in both directions are large enough that it shouldn't be a hindrance.

I total agree, I'm just trying to find some new things. Speeking of Nair, if you do a move on someone buried the knocback is cut in half. So after the bury on my video, hitting Ryu with the two hits of Nair then UpSmash is actually a true combo (it barely kills).
Just wanted to put it here so we can talk options out of bury and whatnot.

In case you missed it, I did a thread grounding jab stuff.
It's outdated, but the majority of everything here still holds true. Just keep in mind that uptilt's been buffed so all the percents are probably 2-5 lower than what's listed, and there's nothing on DB or rage even though they make jabx3>uair a pretty powerful option.

 

[John12346]

Here's a tech I believe that all the Wii Fit Trainers should get themselves familiar with: https://gfycat.com/ConventionalThatAustraliancattledog

I didn't perform the tech perfectly in that clip, but hopefully you can understand the applications of being able to cancel your momentum on a soft platform for an instant grab. Since its effects and uses are so similar to the Waveland technique in Melee, I figure it's only appropriate to refer to this as Wavebreathing.

Edit: Actually, let's call it Breathe-landing, the name is much more appropriate.

 

[chris1855]

Guys nair is an amazing combo tool

 

[BTVolta]

Here's a tech I believe that all the Wii Fit Trainers should get themselves familiar with: https://gfycat.com/ConventionalThatAustraliancattledog

I've seen something similar to this(I think it was you?) by ledge jump, instant land with DB as another ledge option similar to peach's instant float from ledge in brawl.
Also not really feeling the name since it reminds me a bit more of platform canceling(and the peach tech) than wavelanding, but those are also really similar so maybe I'm being too nitpicky.

 

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

Does anyone have tips on how to fight a super offensive ?
I was on Anther's the other day and I came across a super offensive robin, they used Arcthunder and Arcfire a lot! What should I do for this matchup?

 

[chris1855]

Does anyone have tips on how to fight a super offensive ?
I was on Anther's the other day and I came across a super offensive robin, they used Arcthunder and Arcfire a lot! What should I do for this matchup?

Well for me I generally try to be as aggressive as possible with all my characters. For Robin I would reccomend jumping over all his projectiles, and trying to get him offstage as much as possible. Try not to fall for empty hops and punish his laggy projectiles

 

[⑨ball]

Been playing a bit more with header and found that you can frame sync header shots.

The most consistent one I've found so far is header cancel>FF>FF Fair(front) but I'll be looking to find one with bair and reverse fair since they cover the most likely options to zoning.

 

[Fancykong]

Sorry for not posting much, guys. I rotate throughout the reddit, Anther's, facebook and twitter scene to try and recruit more people to the smashboards.com fold and to get our meta out there.

Also, the Pikachu matchup is actually pretty simple for me now. Bayonetta's nice, but I just can't quit the fit! WFT main 4 life!

 

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

How should I deal with an extremely offensive on a flat stage (Omega/FD)? Since I have trouble with my friend's Ryu and just over all playing against it, since he is an extremely offensive player.

Also how do you feel about using Deep Breathing at the beginning of the match? Since I only really use it to stall in the air, similar to how you would use 's reflector, or possibly and 's PSI Magnet, or possibly 's Farore's Love/. Maybe even different character's counters.

 

[John12346]

So, let's talk shieldbreaks and what you should be doing when you get one.

First off, it's time for a little show-off and tell: https://gfycat.com/BriefPoshBelugawhale

The combo above was worth a whopping 65% damage! An excellent amount of damage to punish a broken shield. However, it's also worth noting that, against smaller characters, the ball won't hit them a second time, causing the combo to do 58% instead, which is still an insane amount of damage! The breakdown for that combo is as follows:

Deep Breathing > Header Cancel > Landing Nair > Full Hop > Nair > Double Jump > Nair

It only works at a very, VERY strict percent range, between 20% and 30%. You'll also need to account for rage and staleness, of course. But if you see the opportunity to take that damage, you should definitely do it! If the opponent is at a slightly higher damage range of, say... 25% to 35%, you'll want to omit the Header Cancel from the combo, which will cause something along the lines of 45% to 50% damage.
.
.
.
.
.
If they are below 20% damage, you won't be able to get any significant combos out on the opponent, but you can still get a good deal of damage with this, which will do 38% damage:

Deep Breathing > Header Cancel > Fully Charged Tipper Fsmash
.
.
.
.
.
If they are above 45% damage, or if they are between 35% and 45% damage and near the edge, Deep Breathing to Fully Charged Tipper Fsmash will finish them off. Do not include the Header Cancel with this, because adding in the ball will actually reduce the total knockback the opponent will take.

If they are between 35% and 45% and near the middle of the stage, you probably won't be able to end their stock. So perform the Deep Breathing > Header Cancel > Fully Charged Tipper Fsmash to get that sweet 38% damage and call it a day.

 

[⑨ball]

Small discovery while comparing and contrasting Bidou with a-stick control schemes. The same principal works but at a much weaker degree, likely because the bstick registers something like [x=-100 + special], while the a stick probably has something like [x=-50 + attack].

Anyway, all that just to say, if you hold the attack button down, the cstick on tilts can give you a weak movement stick, which is useful for instant turn around crouching while walking, instant turnaround sliding shield, turnaround in place (not buffered so it doesn't work as well as bidou OoS), letting go of the ledge without pressing back or down on the control stick, instant dash out of a run, c stick fox trotting, turnaround walking and twitch movement while in neutral states like standing so that you never enter her idle animation.

Only a few seem super useful, but it's interesting none-the-less. I'll play with it more as I experiment with bidou.

 

[John12346]

I mentioned this on Skype, but I'll put it here for posterity.

It's time for the return of Jab 1 Header.

So, if you recall, we had all collectively decided that Jab 1 Header wasn't a very useful tool, since the hitbox for the ball does not last for very long at all. However, as it turns out, the front hit of Wii Fit's Jab 1 has TWO hitboxes, one on the hand, and one on the shoulder. Since we've been setting up all of our Header Cancel technology by falling straight down after the cancel, we've been consistently hitting the ball with the 'hand' hitbox of our Jab 1, causing an undesirable result and making us think it's useless.

However, the 'shoulder' hitbox of our Jab 1 apparently has different properties, and is actually strong enough to send the ball away with a constant hitbox! The ball travels extremely slowly in this case; almost as slowly as using the 'hand' hitbox of Jab 1. In addition, our Jab 1 ends a lot faster than our Jab 2, so we can follow behind it much more efficiently. In some cases, you can even get in front of the ball for some insane pressure, or you can actually start to confirm the ball hitting the opponent into aerials (usually Bair or Fair). This tech definitely has much more potential for us over Jab 2 Header.

Now, there is one hitch with this tech. Unlike with every other Header Cancel that we've practiced, we can't just do this one by Header Cancelling and falling straight down, because that will cause our hand to hit the ball when we Jab. We need to find a moment to move forward, as well, so we can get our shoulder on the ball. For this, my recommendation would be to, instead of pushing straight down for the fast fall, hold down and forward when you want to fastfall. This should get you into the perfect spacing that you need with the ball.

 

[John12346]

Ah, so I put together a MU chart for Wii Fit. This is all just my opinion of course but I know how people love to dicuss these things.

Have fun~

Mii Fighters are assumed to be Guest Size, 1111 Moveset only.

 

[⑨ball]

Going to do a supplement to the header thread tomorrow(today after I wake up and watch ReZero) complete with gfycats for what I've found to be the most practical trick shots and some names so we can all be on the same page when discussing header tech.

 

[Lakuto]

As I said in the social thread, I have been practicing ledge trumping using side b. That way, if the trump is a success, you are guaranteed to spike if you hit with side b next off stage. Plus, the ball is free to use in any way.

Here I use the "side b ball direction glitch". It the most "applicable" way to use the glitch but it's still hard to do and I don't even know exactly what options it covers yet. Looks cool though.

 

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

Let's wake up this thread, shall we?
Surprisingly, I don't know this, but do moves stall on the ball? Or do they not stale?

 

[luke_atyeo]

hey dudes, I'm trying to collect a bunch of quick easy info graphics on essential character knowledge to make a quick reference guide for commentators (we all hate it when a commentator says something that is wrong)
This shulk thing here is an example of the kinda stuff I am looking for

I'm going around to all the character boards and it'll be a little messy for me to try and check them all, so if you have any cool things like that, or just some useful info that I could turn into a similar picture, please send me a message. Cheers lads.

 

[Lakuto]

Surprisingly, I don't know this, but do moves stall on the ball? Or do they not stale?

It does stall. I remember Sinogara did a video showing some combos to do an the ball to stall moves multiple time on one header cancel.
Found it:

So, pretty much, you can use them accordingly to de-stale moves to your need. It's cool, but it's utility is up for discussion though.

 

[⑨ball]

hey dudes, I'm trying to collect a bunch of quick easy info graphics on essential character knowledge to make a quick reference guide for commentators (we all hate it when a commentator says something that is wrong)

Commentators get WFT's normals wrong so an infographic might not help, but we can do something for DB to be in line with Shulk's.

It does stall.

BoxedOccaBerrys Keep in mind the ball itself does not stale and is consistent with it's velocity.

 

[Egghead]

For header cancel jab1, if wii use Wii fit's lower hit on of jab1, the trajectory of the ball is even lower than j2h(jab 2 header).

 

[⑨ball]

For header cancel jab1, if wii use Wii fit's lower hit on of jab1, the trajectory of the ball is even lower than j2h(jab 2 header).

No, jab 1 even at the lowest part of it's hitbox is still a rising hit because of the way her jab combo is meant to function. It's also active for a shorter time.

 

[Egghead]

No, jab 1 even at the lowest part of it's hitbox is still a rising hit because of the way her jab combo is meant to function. It's also active for a shorter time.

So the shoulder hit is the best jab option?

Edit: Just wondering can we multi-footstool with immediate DB's?

 

[Lakuto]

So the shoulder hit is the best jab option?

Edit: Just wondering can we multi-footstool with immediate DB's?

You have to airdodge between DB so you won't have time to place several footstools. Characters usually fall faster than wft so it won't work. You can't cancel DB with a jump too while in the air.

You got me curious though. I'd be glad to have things wrong here.

 

[Egghead]

Another theory: Can we jump offstage and sun push our opponents so that they free fall to the blast zones?

Edit: Something that I tested and actually works: Fair-ing onto a stage during a recovery auto cancels while maintaining the whole(or a large part) of the animation so we can just hop on a stage and if they challenge, they will get hit by the lingering fair. After the fair, if you let go of attack but maintain the directional input, you will continually walk forward.

 

[⑨ball]

So the shoulder hit is the best jab option?

Edit: Just wondering can we multi-footstool with immediate DB's?

The best option for any move is always situation dependent. If you were looking to keep pressure on an aerial retreating opponent with good air momentum after something like an uair or uthrow, yes shoulder jab has the most knockback of all front facing jab headers and thus the highest arc and longest active frames. However in a situation where you might want to approach a grounded opponent, using jab 1's lower hit will give you a better angle to thwart short hops.

As Lakuto said, airdodging is something around 22 frames so we can't lock anyone in footstools, but one is typically more than enough to setup 2 frame punishes or simply follow them while buffering another footstool in case they panic jump.

Another theory: Can we jump offstage and sun push our opponents so that they free fall to the blast zones?

Edit: Something that I tested and actually works: Fair-ing onto a stage during a recovery auto cancels while maintaining the whole(or a large part) of the animation so we can just hop on a stage and if they challenge, they will get hit by the lingering fair. After the fair, if you let go of attack but maintain the directional input, you will continually walk forward.

Yes! The windbox on WFT's SS is damage/rage dependent so you can reliably push lesser recoveries away from snapping the ledge by jumping or standing with it active where they are. There might be others but I can vouch for having tested Cloud recovering high, and all teleport recoveries coming in from low or stage level as vulnerable to this. Little Mac is of course a given here.

Unfortunately Fair is only active for 7 of it's 46 frames, so challenging opponents are unlikely to get hit by anything lingering. However, because it autocancels after frame 25 it does make an absurdly good OoS bait and decent aerial footsies bait. For jumping back onto the stage, I'd recommend wall jump bairs/fairs, jumping airdodge bairs, wavebounce ss' and stage clipping ss'.