Guide Let's Step Up the Intensity: Wii Fit Competitive Discussion and Advanced Techs

[Egghead]

The best option for any move is always situation dependent. If you were looking to keep pressure on an aerial retreating opponent with good air momentum after something like an uair or uthrow, yes shoulder jab has the most knockback of all front facing jab headers and thus the highest arc and longest active frames. However in a situation where you might want to approach a grounded opponent, using jab 1's lower hit will give you a better angle to thwart short hops.

As Lakuto said, airdodging is something around 22 frames so we can't lock anyone in footstools, but one is typically more than enough to setup 2 frame punishes or simply follow them while buffering another footstool in case they panic jump.



Yes! The windbox on WFT's SS is damage/rage dependent so you can reliably push lesser recoveries away from snapping the ledge by jumping or standing with it active where they are. There might be others but I can vouch for having tested Cloud recovering high, and all teleport recoveries coming in from low or stage level as vulnerable to this. Little Mac is of course a given here.

Unfortunately Fair is only active for 7 of it's 46 frames, so challenging opponents are unlikely to get hit by anything lingering. However, because it autocancels after frame 25 it does make an absurdly good OoS bait and decent aerial footsies bait. For jumping back onto the stage, I'd recommend wall jump bairs/fairs, jumping airdodge bairs, wavebounce ss' and stage clipping ss'.

Thanks! There are so many more recovery options.

I think the Fair thing only semi-worked because I play (without being disrespectful) mind games so they probably got confused by me just jumping on the stage.

 

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

Just a question, I find myself unable to pressure shield well, and I wanted to see what all of you think of it. I personally use Down Tilt and a retreating bair whenever I need to pressure someone's shield, alongside using projectiles, of course.

Alongside this, I would like to ask for some tips on the Yoshi MU, this is an MU that I was struggled with for a while, and I thought it should be a good time to learn more about it now. I don't know what to do against him, so I throw out moves like a dummy.

What stages would you feel are best for WFT? I say Smashville and FD, but I'm not totally sure about that. Lylat is also good for getting on stage quickly, due to the glitch where when it moves, the stage isn't solid.

Thanks for reading!

 

[Egghead]

Just a question, I find myself unable to pressure shield well, and I wanted to see what all of you think of it. I personally use Down Tilt and a retreating bair whenever I need to pressure someone's shield, alongside using projectiles, of course.

Alongside this, I would like to ask for some tips on the Yoshi MU, this is an MU that I was struggled with for a while, and I thought it should be a good time to learn more about it now. I don't know what to do against him, so I throw out moves like a dummy.

What stages would you feel are best for WFT? I say Smashville and FD, but I'm not totally sure about that. Lylat is also good for getting on stage quickly, due to the glitch where when it moves, the stage isn't solid.

Thanks for reading!

Down tilt is very punishable. I think that is one of the reasons as to why Kirby destroys Wii fit, unless somehow dash attack is implemented. Back air would be a good option and surprisingly(I thought it was very laggy initially) remains unpunished a lot. As long as you back air with the end of the hitbox so that you can stay far away. If you really want to pressure shield just charge the sun or deep breathing and then cancel. Opponents usually drop shield and approach aggressively, and then you can punish their mistakes.

Throwing moves out like a dummy is pretty optimal wii fit game play. Sorry, I don't play too many Yoshis. I guess it's because dinosaurs are extinct after we sun salutated them.

Smash ville and FD are what I would choose too. I think smashville is the best because we can charge on the platforms and there are not too many other platforms that interfere with Wii fit's movement and header.

Edit: When landing without jump, Wii Fit Trainer can down air and then aerial drift simultaneously(at least it feels simulataneous). I Dair at around medium height and then drift to the side.

Also, is charging your entire sun less than a roll's length away from your opponent a good idea/mindgame? Some people use their reflectors which gives me even more time to charge and others run away. I also do that with DB. It forces my opponent to approach and if they do not, I wait for the boost.

 

[SteadyDisciple]

Also, is charging your entire sun less than a roll's length away from your opponent a good idea/mindgame? Some people use their reflectors which gives me even more time to charge and others run away. I also do that with DB. It forces my opponent to approach and if they do not, I wait for the boost.

I can't say I would pick fully charging DB or Sun Salutation at point blank range as a winning tactic. Especially in the case of deep breathing, successfully using the move incurs a fair amount of lag, which is pretty easy to punish at short range, especially by faster characters. Sun Salutation is a little better, since it threatens firing a partial charge, but still has some lag if you let it charge all the way.

That said, a partial charge of Sun Salutation seems quite viable since it isn't very committal and unlike Deep Breathing you benefit from less than full charge. If opponents choose to get tied up in a defensive option like retreating or a reflector, letting it finish charging seems fine.

 

[⑨ball]

DB charging at point blank isn't terrible, but only as a bait, and only once you've used DB's first charge(don't waste the first use speed &damage bonus!). It's best use up close is as an approach bait, because it's charging animation is direction neutral which lets you bair out of the charge without it being as telegraphed as SS.

SS charging in your opponent's face is great, and unlike DB, going for the full charge is A-OK too. While firing it should be done with caution, charging it to full is very noncommital and gives you plenty of options for punishing over-extensions during with no lag upon completion.

 

[John12346]

So, two things.
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You know that useless tech that we have, where we repeatedly do Deep Breathings in place by doing DownB > Shield > Jump > DownB > repeat? I've been referring to this as Multi-Breathing because of its similar properties to Melee's Multi-Shinings (y'know, except for the part where ours completely useless). Someone made a really good suggestion for an actual name for this tech. So instead of Multi-Breathing, we should now call it Hyperventilating. Genius!
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Now, for something a bit more practical. First off, take a look at this edgeguard that I pulled off in tournament just the other day: https://gfycat.com/RightCoarseBufeo

Of course, this clip highlights the strength of using a Header Cancel to Dair for a very powerful edgeguard. After all, once you've Daired the ball and drifted off the stage like that, you still have your midair jump, AND you still have another use of Header (you can even get another ball if you wait for the first one to disappear).

However, what I want to point out is what I messed up on with this edgeguard attempt. Pay attention to when the first ball hit Marth, and then I performed my midair jump right afterwards. Of course, this allowed me to chase him down for a further edgeguard, but... Imagine what would have happened if, instead of that midair jump, I instead landed a footstool! That's right, the Dair Header into footstool combo is definitely something that we need to incorporate into our edgeguard gameplan (at least against low recoveries). If we can catch opponents out of their midair jumps, it could easily lead to early percent kills for sure.

 

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

So, two things.
.
.
.
.
.
You know that useless tech that we have, where we repeatedly do Deep Breathings in place by doing DownB > Shield > Jump > DownB > repeat? I've been referring to this as Multi-Breathing because of its similar properties to Melee's Multi-Shinings (y'know, except for the part where ours completely useless). Someone made a really good suggestion for an actual name for this tech. So instead of Multi-Breathing, we should now call it Hyperventilating. Genius!
.
.
.
Now, for something a bit more practical. First off, take a look at this edgeguard that I pulled off in tournament just the other day: https://gfycat.com/RightCoarseBufeo

Of course, this clip highlights the strength of using a Header Cancel to Dair for a very powerful edgeguard. After all, once you've Daired the ball and drifted off the stage like that, you still have your midair jump, AND you still have another use of Header (you can even get another ball if you wait for the first one to disappear).

However, what I want to point out is what I messed up on with this edgeguard attempt. Pay attention to when the first ball hit Marth, and then I performed my midair jump right afterwards. Of course, this allowed me to chase him down for a further edgeguard, but... Imagine what would have happened if, instead of that midair jump, I instead landed a footstool! That's right, the Dair Header into footstool combo is definitely something that we need to incorporate into our edgeguard gameplan (at least against low recoveries). If we can catch opponents out of their midair jumps, it could easily lead to early percent kills for sure.

I've seen you use a Dair -> Header Cancel into a fully charged Sun Salutation. But would Dair or some other aerial be a good option, probably bair would be our best option, since that could kill early. Fair is also a move I use to get recoveries early. I've started using Fair (foot) -> Header Cancel, I use it when people hug the stage while recovering (an example is Pit).


Header is one of our best moves in general, it's great to see many people labbing it.

 

[Egghead]

So, two things.
.
.
.
.
.
You know that useless tech that we have, where we repeatedly do Deep Breathings in place by doing DownB > Shield > Jump > DownB > repeat? I've been referring to this as Multi-Breathing because of its similar properties to Melee's Multi-Shinings (y'know, except for the part where ours completely useless). Someone made a really good suggestion for an actual name for this tech. So instead of Multi-Breathing, we should now call it Hyperventilating. Genius!
.
.
.
Now, for something a bit more practical. First off, take a look at this edgeguard that I pulled off in tournament just the other day: https://gfycat.com/RightCoarseBufeo

Of course, this clip highlights the strength of using a Header Cancel to Dair for a very powerful edgeguard. After all, once you've Daired the ball and drifted off the stage like that, you still have your midair jump, AND you still have another use of Header (you can even get another ball if you wait for the first one to disappear).

However, what I want to point out is what I messed up on with this edgeguard attempt. Pay attention to when the first ball hit Marth, and then I performed my midair jump right afterwards. Of course, this allowed me to chase him down for a further edgeguard, but... Imagine what would have happened if, instead of that midair jump, I instead landed a footstool! That's right, the Dair Header into footstool combo is definitely something that we need to incorporate into our edgeguard gameplan (at least against low recoveries). If we can catch opponents out of their midair jumps, it could easily lead to early percent kills for sure.

Header cancel Dair footstool against the world's best Marth would have been so cool. Edge guarding a Marth like that.

Are the percentages really tight because it does not seem to be because of the ball's low knock back. Would Fair be a guaranteed option?

Edit: For the MySmashCorner Wii fit combo, be careful when jab locking, it might auto cancel and although only punishable through a get-up attack, you might get spiked by a DK.

 

[John12346]

I've seen you use a Dair -> Header Cancel into a fully charged Sun Salutation. But would Dair or some other aerial be a good option, probably bair would be our best option, since that could kill early.

Yes, it's possible to combo a Dair Header into basically any of Wii Fit's moves, but the problem is the low hitstun on Header combined with the startup frames of all of Wii Fit's moves means it's very hard or impossible to actually hitconfirm the ball into anything. Well, anything except for footstool, since that is TECHNICALLY a frame 1 move. Of course, it's only effective if you can catch opponents low enough below the edge without their midair jumps. So it would be best used against opponents with low recoveries, such as Mario, Luigi, Dr. Mario, Marth, Lucina, etc.

 

[⑨ball]

Yes, it's possible to combo a Dair Header into basically any of Wii Fit's moves, but the problem is the low hitstun on Header combined with the startup frames of all of Wii Fit's moves means it's very hard or impossible to actually hitconfirm the ball into anything.

Dair header does something like 7+ damage. Around kill percents that should be plenty of hitstun to confirm into anything even half committal as a footstool.

 

[John12346]

Dair header does something like 7+ damage. Around kill percents that should be plenty of hitstun to confirm into anything even half committal as a footstool.

Keep in mind, hitstun is based on knockback, not damage. After all, Finishing Touch only does 1 damage but has plenty of hitstun attached to it. Header is overall low knockback so it's definitely harder to confirm anything afterwards.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying that we can't combo any crazy stuff after Dair Header, because we definitely can. But it's extremely hard to impossible to actually react to most of the situations. We need to guess that the opponent is going to get hit, and where they're going to be afterwards perfectly. In a lot of cases we have to swing preemptively and that could put us in a bad position, but this doesn't apply to footstools. After all, they're Frame 1, completely non-committal, and you just have to be in the general area where they'll be if they get hit by the ball (all the while mashing Jump like crazy) for it to work. It's a lot more practical in my eyes.
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Also, @ everyone, I updated my matchup chart. Have a look!

https://twitter.com/JohnNumbers/status/790956803039395841

There is no ordering within tiers, and Free Miis are still assumed to be default height and weight.

 

[Egghead]

Keep in mind, hitstun is based on knockback, not damage. After all, Finishing Touch only does 1 damage but has plenty of hitstun attached to it. Header is overall low knockback so it's definitely harder to confirm anything afterwards.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying that we can't combo any crazy stuff after Dair Header, because we definitely can. But it's extremely hard to impossible to actually react to most of the situations. We need to guess that the opponent is going to get hit, and where they're going to be afterwards perfectly. In a lot of cases we have to swing preemptively and that could put us in a bad position, but this doesn't apply to footstools. After all, they're Frame 1, completely non-committal, and you just have to be in the general area where they'll be if they get hit by the ball (all the while mashing Jump like crazy) for it to work. It's a lot more practical in my eyes.
.
.
.
.
.
Also, @ everyone, I updated my matchup chart. Have a look!

https://twitter.com/JohnNumbers/status/790956803039395841

There is no ordering within tiers, and Free Miis are still assumed to be default height and weight.

This matchup is not too bad. I occasionally face good greninjas, but not too much. All I can say that the sun can help a lot, dunno why because the sun is fire but greninjas is water type.

Is Kirby that much of a kryptonite? Dash attacking a lot can prevent Kirbys from crouching and most people do not powershielding them. If dash attack gets too predictable, then dashing past them and blasting the sun is not a bad option. If we can somehow punish their crouch enough to prevent them from crouching(perhaps using the options above) then a standing Kirby might make life easier. If only grab was a squat animation...

When ROBs send their projectile-negation get gyro, can jump salutation hurdle the gyro? Most ROBs I face do not keep up with WFT's pace and the gigantic hitbox really helps. I should probably find a ROB on these forums and see why WFT struggles.

Are those top nine match ups the match ups that Corrin faces?
Kirby is the almost un winnable, diddy cloud sheik greninja are the frame data/ too good ones and the rest are the projectile overlords? (Based off the interview)

 

[⑨ball]

Keep in mind, hitstun is based on knockback, not damage. After all, Finishing Touch only does 1 damage but has plenty of hitstun attached to it. Header is overall low knockback so it's definitely harder to confirm anything afterwards.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying that we can't combo any crazy stuff after Dair Header, because we definitely can. But it's extremely hard to impossible to actually react to most of the situations. We need to guess that the opponent is going to get hit, and where they're going to be afterwards perfectly. In a lot of cases we have to swing preemptively and that could put us in a bad position, but this doesn't apply to footstools. After all, they're Frame 1, completely non-committal, and you just have to be in the general area where they'll be if they get hit by the ball (all the while mashing Jump like crazy) for it to work. It's a lot more practical in my eyes.

Hitstun is based off of a number of things including knockback AND damage. For example Finishing Touch has 53 frames of hitstun raw with it's bonkers 417 kbg, but if it did 7% instead of 1% it would cause 60 frames of hitstun.

Dair header does 7% from launch (though it can grow with velocity increase like traveling downwards) with a kbg of something like 76 (it's probably more but let's be safe). Around kill percents, ala 100+% we'd be getting around 40 frames of hitstun to work with.

The average reaction time is supposedly something like 16 frames(generous for gamers I'd assume). That's time enough for all of her moves including no input header on reaction.

No you won't have time to dair header, wait on stage, see the hit, jump out and land dair while they're DI'ing away, but if you're going to be in the general area after the hit for footstool to work, you're already assuming the hit and should be going for much bigger confirms like literally anything else. I'd probably see offstage footstool confirms in a better light if we actually got something from them other than positioning.

 

[Egghead]

When offstage and you are the one that is closer to the stage header off wall can lead to a footstool. The hard part is getting the header to connect. One way to do so is when the opponent is forced to recovery deep, perhaps due to a throw, you can jump offstage, near the stage, and header towards the wall, drift towards your opponent(hopefully nearby) and mash jump. It is pretty situational but what Wii fit tech isn't? The more weird tech, the better.