Guide Let's Step Up the Intensity: Wii Fit Competitive Discussion and Advanced Techs

[Macchiato]

Extreme Yoga - Wii Fit Competitive Discussion and Advanced Techs

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This is where Wii Fits Metagame development will happen and here we discuss everything about Wii fits competitive gameplay. We also will find advanced techniques and post them here. Please discuss.

 

[Macchiato]

Advanced Techniques​

 

[dilviko]

to cancel all landing lag on her side b do a short hop and input the move twice to reduce all landing lag now if you are doing this higher up in the air do a neutral air right before you land to reduce the lag I don't know any wii fit mains at all so I don't know if this is widespread knowledge or not hope this helped

 

[Macchiato]

Apperently the back hit of fair can jab lock an attack

Uncharged SS sets up for a grab

Dair to ftilt combos, I wonder what else is there.

 

[⑨ball]

This thread seems a little redundant considering her competitive discussion is basically broken up into categories with threads like MU discussion and hitbox analyzing. Advanced techs are listed in the index with everything else useful or current to WFT.

edit:

Actually, instead of relisting advanced techs or teaching how to do them, this might be a good place to discuss using them competitively.

 

[Arean]

Guys I have a question, I want to know how you are able to do B reversals with Sun Salutation while moving the opposite direction? (like running to the right, then you short hop and move to the left while doing sun Salutation). I'm able to do a reversal but I only face the other way. I can't do reversals with momentum.

 

[⑨ball]

If you're just turning around there's a pretty good chance you're holding the direction you want to reverse before you attempt the b reversal. This will remove a majority if not all your momentum giving you nothing to reverse.

Just keep in mind that you should be pressing B first, then the opposite direction you're facing. after your jump, you should let your control stick/circle pad return to neutral first, or hold forward if it's more comfortable for you, then input B, and the opposite direction.

 

[Nickname87]

Not sure if this is where i should put it but yolo But i found you can do nair- land on stage- short hop Nair - nair- to side b which does 65% and if you time the side b right youll get a spike too of course this was on Dk starting at like 40% so it may not be guaranteed on everyone but I have used it alot

 

[Lord_Espurr]

I don't know if this counts an AT or not but if you get reflected by pits down b while using the header, there will be no lag upon landing.

 

[⑨ball]

Not sure if this is where i should put it but yolo But i found you can do nair- land on stage- short hop Nair - nair- to side b which does 65% and if you time the side b right youll get a spike too of course this was on Dk starting at like 40% so it may not be guaranteed on everyone but I have used it alot

It's guaranteed on every character but different percents depending on fall speed. around 30-45 tends to be your magic percents. Same with every character it seems.

More of a combo than an AT. Check out the Index if you're interested in things like that. We've got a great guide, and thread where everyone's contributed.

I don't know if this counts an AT or not but if you get reflected by pits down b while using the header, there will be no lag upon landing.

How high in the air were you? If you weren't very high at all, it's a good chance it doesn't and you accidentally performed a SH header which is lagless by default.

 

[Lord_Espurr]

How in the air were you? If you weren't very high at all, it's a good chance it doesn't and you accidentally performed a SH header which is lagless by default.

Its hard to tell because I was traveling in an arch so I may have at short hop height, but it doesn't really matter because I didn't headbutt right away like you need to if you want it to autocancel. I think what happened was either:

1. If you get hit before you headbutt the ball, there is no landing lag. Maybe Pit's down b counted as a hit and stopped the lag.

2. The ball didn't travel with me so maybe it did autocancel but having no ball messed up the autocancel window.

 

[⑨ball]

Its hard to tell because I was traveling in an arch so I may have at short hop height, but it doesn't really matter because I didn't headbutt right away like you need to if you want it to autocancel. I think what happened was either:

1. If you get hit before you headbutt the ball, there is no landing lag. Maybe Pit's down b counted as a hit and stopped the lag.

2. The ball didn't travel with me so maybe it did autocancel but having no ball messed up the autocancel window.

I'll test it out later today so we can be sure.

 

[Macchiato]

We need to find uses for Sun Pushing.

 

[SSGuy]

Yo, I am learning this character! 1321 is the ****! Looking forward to learning more.

 

[⑨ball]

We need to find uses for Sun Pushing.

It works really well with huge header if you wanna play with that. Lets you send header out fast without actually hitting it.

 

[Lord_Espurr]

Huge header's giant long-lasting hitbox can be used to get some awesome combos. A few that I found were:

Header -> usmash ,which can kill crazy early. And header (ball) -> header (headbut), a guaranteed meteor.

However, the most important (and stylish) combo I found was header -> footstool -> footstool -> footstool-> footstool -> footstool(all shorthopped) -> fair( jab reset) -> ???

If you're wondering how it works, the header will bounce straight up when it hits someone, so if you footstool someone right after they are hit, the header will come down and hit them during their flopping animation. They should then be launched right under you so footstool them again and the process will repeat itself. The third, fourth, and fifth, time you footstool them, they will pretty much be inside the ball and unable to land before they get hit again so you'll have to be quick with your footstools

This makes me wonder what her other, less used customs can do.

 

[Macchiato]

It can be used to cover ledge options.

 

[⑨ball]

-snip-

This was fun to play with. Not sure how practical it is, as the setup takes aiming HH and leaving yourself open within burst option range during such. Would be very hype to pull off mid match.

@ Macchiato how'd your research into Hurricane Hoops go? Find anything useful?
Also in what way are you covering ledge options? Do you mean like default header does with an extended timer? Or did you find a way to keep it stationary with a hitbox?

 

[Macchiato]

This was fun to play with. Not sure how practical it is, as the setup takes aiming HH and leaving yourself open within burst option range during such. Would be very hype to pull off mid match.

@ Macchiato how'd your research into Hurricane Hoops go? Find anything useful?
Also in what way are you covering ledge options? Do you mean like default header does with an extended timer? Or did you find a way to keep it stationary with a hitbox?

I think its as good as Super Hoops, It goes farther and hard to gimp. The only drawback is that you have to use freefall mobility for the horizontal recovery.

Since Huge Header is a big active hitbox that bounces, if you put the ball on the ledge, they can't jump from the ledge, ledge roll, ledge attack, or simply get up.

 

[TimeSmash]

This is probably already known, but you can jump out of charging Sun Salutation by shielding and then immediately jumping. It's an interesting thing to say the least. I'm always trying to charge Sun Salutations whenever the opponent's not near me and shielding/rolling out of it can become predictable

 

[moofpi]

Huge header's giant long-lasting hitbox can be used to get some awesome combos. A few that I found were:

Header -> usmash ,which can kill crazy early. And header (ball) -> header (headbut), a guaranteed meteor.

However, the most important (and stylish) combo I found was header -> footstool -> footstool -> footstool-> footstool -> footstool(all shorthopped) -> fair( jab reset) -> ???

If you're wondering how it works, the header will bounce straight up when it hits someone, so if you footstool someone right after they are hit, the header will come down and hit them during their flopping animation. They should then be launched right under you so footstool them again and the process will repeat itself. The third, fourth, and fifth, time you footstool them, they will pretty much be inside the ball and unable to land before they get hit again so you'll have to be quick with your footstools

This makes me wonder what her other, less used customs can do.

This is absolutely disgusting, thank you. You're doing God's work.

 

[⑨ball]

Its hard to tell because I was traveling in an arch so I may have at short hop height, but it doesn't really matter because I didn't headbutt right away like you need to if you want it to autocancel. I think what happened was either:

1. If you get hit before you headbutt the ball, there is no landing lag. Maybe Pit's down b counted as a hit and stopped the lag.

2. The ball didn't travel with me so maybe it did autocancel but having no ball messed up the autocancel window.

Finally tested this out and it was most likely the second one.

Also looked a bit into your huge header footstool setup and it seems relatively practical(though not exactly optimal) to use against the most popular ledge options (stand and roll) meaning it's completely legit and worth looking into.

 

[moofpi]

Huge header's giant long-lasting hitbox can be used to get some awesome combos. A few that I found were:

Header -> usmash ,which can kill crazy early. And header (ball) -> header (headbut), a guaranteed meteor.

However, the most important (and stylish) combo I found was header -> footstool -> footstool -> footstool-> footstool -> footstool(all shorthopped) -> fair( jab reset) -> ???

If you're wondering how it works, the header will bounce straight up when it hits someone, so if you footstool someone right after they are hit, the header will come down and hit them during their flopping animation. They should then be launched right under you so footstool them again and the process will repeat itself. The third, fourth, and fifth, time you footstool them, they will pretty much be inside the ball and unable to land before they get hit again so you'll have to be quick with your footstools

This makes me wonder what her other, less used customs can do.

What is the best way to do the header and then follow up with those attacks? Lagless SH header? Or when they're getting up from the ledge? Usually when I tried to do the header, they were too far away for me to follow up

 

[Lord_Espurr]

What is the best way to do the header and then follow up with those attacks? Lagless SH header? Or when they're getting up from the ledge? Usually when I tried to do the header, they were too far away for me to follow up

You need to postion yourself so the ball will hit them on its way down. If you're trying this out in training mode, try doing a SH header just right of the center of the stage and then run past the cpu and start charging your usmash.

 

[Notries]

When you use the huge header custom as soon as possible out of hitstun, depending on the knockback of the move that put you in hitstun, you won't hit the ball and it'll just fall straight down. It's useful in some niche situations where you need to cover your landing after getting hit straight upwards. It didn't seem to work with the regular header and it worked occasionally with the weighted one.

 

[Lord_Espurr]

When you use the huge header custom as soon as possible out of hitstun, depending on the knockback of the move that put you in hitstun, you won't hit the ball and it'll just fall straight down. It's useful in some niche situations where you need to cover your landing after getting hit straight upwards. It didn't seem to work with the regular header and it worked occasionally with the weighted one.

I've had this happen to me before but I've never thought about using it to my advantage. Great idea!

Also, does anyone have advice for how to use RTACs online? I can do it fine locally, but I always get a kneeling animation instead of a slide whenever I'm online.

 

[Doc Chalk]

Hello all. First time poster, long time WFT main, and I've recently stumbled upon some interesting usage of tech which could significantly alter the WFT/Sheik MU. I was thinking about how to implement "Slip Edge" from a OneSmash video (You can find them at OneSmash.net or on TourneyLocator's Youtube channel), which to those unaware is a way to fall off the ledge with minimal horizontal momentum, and it occurred to me the WFT's Fair would be perfect for the job.

OneSmash is always insistent that "Sheik is free!", so I booked it to the lab and discovered that it works surprisingly well. If you can force Sheik to recover low (With Header for example), you can shield at the ledge and wait for them to recover with up b, then use Slip Edge to drop off and spike them with Fair. The only problem I've encountered is that since Sheik regains her jump from grabbing the ledge, she can often recover despite being spiked. Thankfully, you can simply abuse her vulnerability a second time by spiking her with Header the next time Sheik tries to recover.

I'm not entirely certain how greatly this will affect our MU with Sheik, but I do believe it is worth consideration. In terms of risk there's almost none, and execution shouldn't be an issue after a bit of practice has been done. I'm just hoping that this bit of tech turns out to be useful in some regard, and not simply a less efficient method of edgeguarding Shiek. I know there are a great many technical Trainers out there, so perhaps one of you will find a way to perfect WFT into the Shiek-Slayer she was always meant to be.

 

[⑨ball]

-snip-

More options never hurt so it's a welcome addition, but nothing that will significantly change the Sheik MU at all. If Sheik recovers low it's much better to always just go for header or hoops outright. Tons of active frames on each and the spikes they produce are much stronger, have less lag, and leave us in a better position.

 

[Doc Chalk]

More options never hurt so it's a welcome addition, but nothing that will significantly change the Sheik MU at all. If Sheik recovers low it's much better to always just go for header or hoops outright. Tons of active frames on each and the spikes they produce are much stronger, have less lag, and leave us in a better position.

That makes sense. I thought such might be the case anyhow. I've had difficulty in the past with positioning myself for a header to spike Sheik, and so thought to myself that this might be an alternative to consider, but there's no debating that Header is the more lethal route. All in all it's as you said, options are always nice to have.

 

[Fancykong]

Speaking of Shiek, as of last month, their forum has discovered a way to pseudo-wavedash: http://smashboards.com/threads/new-sheik-tech-instant-needle-cancels.402777/

Annoyingly, though we both have charging neutral B's, ours can't reset before going into shield like theirs (they basically tap shield so fast that Shiek cancels the needle, but doesn't animate the shield so they can do any move).

HOWEVER, I'd like to remind everyone that we can Sun Cancel by jump cancelling our neutral B charge animation. And you all already know that this also works when landing from a jump. In fact, I've found that this can be used offensively since we effectively have 99% lagless aerials thanks to all of our cancels. Adding to that, we can attack the exact moment that the SS becomes fully charged (the beep), meaning we can chase opponents down relentlessly while SIMULTANEOUSLY CHARGING OUR KILL MOVE, hit them with SS and use our 3 spikes to finish them off. Or you can camp on the go in any direction, plus offstage. Yeah, it's no Shiek. But our ground to air game and landing options are starting to multiply, and honestly I believe that WFT is becoming a bit frightening. Shiek may have pseudo wavedashing, but we have the next best thing. Plus, we have directional air dodging, so we're still melee, lol.

Let's continue to practice these timings, controls and button combinations, fellow trainers.

 

[⑨ball]

Speaking of Shiek, as of last month, their forum has discovered a way to pseudo-wavedash: http://smashboards.com/threads/new-sheik-tech-instant-needle-cancels.402777/

That Sheik tech has been around for a bit for both her and Diddy. I'm still not seeing the use of it for her as she doesn't really want to approach on the ground ever. All of those charge cancels and b reverse charge cancels are nifty as mind games, but slow and suboptimal compared to her bnb of fair spacing and needle camping.

As far as I know there are 9 charge cancel characters. Sheik, DK, Diddy, Samus, Robin, Lucario, WFT, PacMan, and Mewtwo. Of these nine, there are a couple of unique quirks for each character.

Spoiler: Charge Cancel Crew Quirks

• Sheik, Pacman and DK are all able to cancel their charge animations back into neutral by tapping them. This means that canceling in shield is a worse defensive option for them, but canceling into normals or other specials is much easier, giving them more utility from their charges.
• Pacman, DK, and Samus can not B reverse their charge attacks but can b-turnaround them. This bars them access to any wavebounce techniques.
• Pacman and Robin have float properties on their charges that extend their jumps/aerial time.
• Sheik, Pacman, and Robin all have level charges, making micro charging essentially useless for them.
• DK's charge punch is actually stronger near the height of his charge but doesn't get super armor unless fully charged.
• Pacman's fruits gain completely new properties at each charge but always grow in damage and imo usefulness.
• Diddy can also cancel into neutral with his charge move but must be in the air, barring him from grounded wavebounce neutral stuff.
• All of Diddy and Pacman's charges can be caught.
• Diddy can overcharge, putting himself into a special cooldown.
• Diddy can not charge cancel after reaching a certain level of charge, putting him at a disadvantage against his peers in long range battles, even more so than Sheik, PacMan and DK.
• Samus can not charge in the air limiting a mentality of ABC (always be charging)
• Ontop of gaining different properties and more range with charges, Robin also has the ability to strengthen her final charge by holding b, boosting the damage, active frames and likely increasing the hitbox size, all of which culminates into a fullscreen laser that can even bypass the hylian shield on it's final hit.
• Robin works on an MP system and using any b moves takes away from them respectively dropping an item before it starts refueling.
• Lucario is the only character who's charge hurts characters.
• As per his unique trait, it also scales in size and damage with his own respective damage or stock loss.
• WFT heals 1% on full charge but can reach full strength before hitting max.
• WFT is the only charge character with a pushbox on her charge that has it's own bkb and kb settings, making her the only character that can kill other characters with her charge. Let alone move them around.
• This also means that her charge can be absorbed by game and watch mid charge.
• A bit obvious due to their status as items,(but then again Diddy can't) but PacMan and Robin can reclaim items released (fruits and books) and use them for strong OoS options or z-drop combos.
• Mewtwo has the slowest traveling full charge of all the characters on top of being the only one of them to have a reflect making him primed for playing shadowball tennis or combating other projectile users.
• He also has the highest recoil on his charged projectile becoming a viable recovery option, momentum changer and a move to be cautious for both character in the air.

Out of everyone up there Sheik is probably the only one that can do stuff similar to wavedashing (not including RTACC) with grounded wavebounce cancels but I haven't see anyone but Yoshi's using that. Might become useful to us as another option to retreat with SS facing the opponent, but I need a better controller before I can make a judgement.

tl;dr: Sheik's charge cancel is better offensively in the long run through grounded wave bounce, but ours is better offensively in the short run as grounded b reverse stuff is actually useful for our neutral, and better defensively all around because we cancel directly into shield.

 

[Fancykong]

I've found that sun cancelling is most useful against offensive players that try to cover landings 100% of the time. Having the option to immediately roll away usually throws them off, to the point where I stumped Shofu's Mewtwo by faking charges and jumpingaway or using Bair. It's the tech I most use against Sonic and Fox.

Sun Pushing is hilarious. I've actually killed an angry Mario player before because their Fair got pushed while they were offstage. And against G&W: for some reason, the ones I fight REALLY want to charge the bucket, to the point that they'll lose entire stocks because they forget that I can cancel and attack them. But you can Sun Push their Dair, although I usually just Usmash if they get predictable.

 

[Lord_Espurr]

If you wall jump and then b-reverse SS you can use the change in momentum to get back on the stage while launching/charging SS. It's good for taking people by surprise.

 

[moofpi]

Ah, I've done that wall jump B-reverse landing, it's pretty nifty. But I Sun Cancel a lot, I have my R button set to shield and my L button set to jump so I can quickly act out of it or OoS smash while they think they can get me charging. I love this because my Wii Fit tech training has really helped me with other characters as well such as charging Mario's Fludd, Samus's charge shot, and especially when I play around with Lucario.

 

[John12346]

So, here are two new techs that I've discovered. I'm going to see if I can put them to good use later down the line.

Landing Sun Salutation Charge Finisher(LSSCF): So, this one is pretty simple. Consider a Salutation-heavy gameplay style, where, while you're charging in the opponent's face, the opponent has to eat the mixup of you either shooting it or letting it fully charge and going for a quick dash grab. We all know and love that little trick, right? We can do a little more with this, though, and here's my idea.

While we're playing neutral, instead of fully charging Sun Salutations, charge them so they're one tick below full charge. Then, when you're in the air, you can charge your Sun right before landing, either to fake an aerial or to negate the RCO lag from a Header. When you land, the Sun will fully charge and you can act immediately with other moves that don't require a shield, like smashes, Ftilt, dash grab, etc. When the opponent sees you charging a Sun in their face they might end up flinching in some way, giving you an opportunity to get a good hit in.

Header Slider(HS): This tech is a little strange. After we've done a Header, we all know how we get RCO lag when we land, right? Something interesting about this RCO lag, though, is that if we land with some momentum, and slide over an edge, we kinda just float in midair while receiving the RCO lag. When the lag ends, Wii Fit will fall like normal.

While really funny to look at, I'm trying to figure out some practical applications to it. For example, while edgeguarding, you could shoot your Header at the opponent, then perform a Header Slider, maybe for a tricky delayed edgeguard, spike attempt, or ledge trump? Something like that, I guess.

 

[⑨ball]

Header Slider(HS): This tech is a little strange. After we've done a Header, we all know how we get RCO lag when we land, right? Something interesting about this RCO lag, though, is that if we land with some momentum, and slide over an edge, we kinda just float in midair while receiving the RCO lag. When the lag ends, Wii Fit will fall like normal.

While really funny to look at, I'm trying to figure out some practical applications to it. For example, while edgeguarding, you could shoot your Header at the opponent, then perform a Header Slider, maybe for a tricky delayed edgeguard, spike attempt, or ledge trump? Something like that, I guess.

I was playing around with this for a bit when I first found it and the only things I could come up with were pretty much using bair, fair to catch 1 frame ledge vulnerability (wasn't very useful as it was very hard to time consistently) and baiting ledge options since if you don't grab the ledge you don't go through the forced hold of 20 frames. I haven't tested, but I'm pretty sure it's obsolete when we have instant ledge jumps with DB at 12 frames(+10 for shield cancel).

It'd be neat to find something, though tbh I'm hoping the RCO lag gets removed entirely.

 

[XO-CHTL]

Does anyone know if huge header is a good custom?

 

[⑨ball]

We've found practical uses for all of her customs except hurricane hoops.

Huge Header is really good for negotiating space against characters that are in the air. It's not impossible to hit back, but it can be more difficult than worth it, and lets WFT charge behind it. It's also very flexible in her combo game and makes for a more convenient approach and ledge coverage than default header.

You should look to use it against heavy aerial playstyles. I personally always reccomend it against Peach who likes to do float shennanigans, and Olimar who's Pikmin outside of purple can't deal with it.

 

[XO-CHTL]

How about her/his hoop custom how do they work competitively??

 

[XO-CHTL]

Also how do u perform a Sun cancel??