Laundry's All-Stars Pokemon Mafia -- Pokeballs to the Pokewalls!

[BRB Not Posting.]

Hello !

 

[Raziek]

I'm not responding to that playerslot under any circumstance.

Who wants to be my interpreter?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Hello !

You have received a rare candy for becoming my favorite hydra name/picture ever!

 

[BRB Not Posting.]

Dying is a response to being shot, JFYI.

 

[T-block]

Trainer text is null to me, it should be in everyones role PM, just not the actual role.

The pokemon is the actual role, and Still think Xonar dies and I'll make sure he dies.

ryker's too arrogant to fake something like that. the fact that he was so sure that xonar being a trainer meant he was anti-town reveals that he's town

you, on the other hand, RR, are in a pretty awkward spot now that ryker has said he doesn't have much against xonar, aren't you?

 

[BRB Not Posting.]

He is, isn't he? I'll tell you if he's scum later tonight, assuming Gova ever wakes up.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Wrong.

Slight town tell for Ryker, but null for Xonar.

Wrong people mate.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I'm going to post to see how much hours are left.

Might as well use the opportunity to say that Nabe needs to talk, he's viewing.
Gorf needs to talk. He's ewww too.

And RamenZen is online and if he reads this I want him commenting on Kantrip.
And Kantrip comments on RamenZen.

But I really just wanna see the time.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

many hours*

jezus late etc etc

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Oh joy.

Disliking Tekcat off of kantrip interactions. The whole "You're playing differently" seems like bull****, especially considering that he refers to "Both heads agreeing on it". 407 is lazy as hell. Kantrip town, both because of this and the fact that his catchup posts were incredibly transparent.

And now for some stuff about what just went down.

RR, what ever happened to you claiming that you were going to "tear his claim apart?"

Xonar, in your lynch pool in 480, you don't put ryker in your lynch pool. However, you then agg him on to shoot you 483. Since would result in dead ryker, why did you encourage ryker to shoot you if he's not in your lynch pool?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

That I am not answering.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I do have reasons though. You'll know when it's time to know.

 

[BRB Not Posting.]

The whole "You're playing differently" seems like bull****, especially considering that he refers to "Both heads agreeing on it". 407 is lazy as hell. Kantrip town, both because of this and the fact that his catchup posts were incredibly transparent.

Elaborate. Why is the "both heads bit" scummy? What does being lazy prove? Your comment about Kantrip proves nothing about alignment and doesn't justify the stance.

 

[Ramen King]

dunno xonar

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Why not babycakes?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Elaborate. Why is the "both heads bit" scummy? What does being lazy prove? Your comment about Kantrip proves nothing about alignment and doesn't justify the stance.

Considering that they haven't really been showing how their play was different, the "both heads bit" reads as though they are trying to back up what they said with something besides actual evidence, and further shows how sloppy their attack has been.

As for the lazy part, It reads as a sloppy attack on kantrip.

Really? I'd think it would. Not only has Takcet's push been awful, transparency is a pretty townie thing, as it allows less windows for someone to push a lynch on you.

 

[Dooms]

RR, what ever happened to you claiming that you were going to "tear his claim apart?"

Is this serious?

Are you talking about his post around 6 hours ago?

Why are you even questioning this so early? I feel like you're trying to make him seem scummy for not responding instantly (especially when the mobile post-bit can easily imply that he hasn't left work yet).

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

You're right. Might as well give him some more time.

 

[Ramen King]

Why not babycakes?

why don't i have a read? dunno

 

[Kantrip]

Okay, John/Shotty: Answer these questions from a clean slate because I'm really trying to get what you're portraying to me. Your insistence doesn't make sense to me, and I can't see why you'd be so balls deep as scum. I also can't see how what you're doing is possibly town. That said, these answers are important to me:

John: Why did you fake being Shotty? What did you hope to get out of it? What DID you get out of it?

I'm going to assume you read all of my posts as you are claiming to have done so. What about my play PRIOR to pressure on me was scummy to you?

Why is "playing differently" a scum tell? I'm not trying to insult or belittle you here, honest question: Do you know how to look for intent? If yes, did you do so when analyzing my play, or did you just note that it was different?

What is your read on Xonar, taking his post-ban posts into account?

 

[Kantrip]

@Dark Horse: How was my catchup transparent? You saw a clear town thought process? Could you show me a bit of it?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I'm going to post to see how much hours are left.

Might as well use the opportunity to say that Nabe needs to talk, he's viewing.
Gorf needs to talk. He's ewww too.

And RamenZen is online and if he reads this I want him commenting on Kantrip.
And Kantrip comments on RamenZen.

But I really just wanna see the time.

Cmon kntrip

 

[TekcaT]

Okay, John/Shotty: Answer these questions from a clean slate because I'm really trying to get what you're portraying to me. Your insistence doesn't make sense to me, and I can't see why you'd be so balls deep as scum. I also can't see how what you're doing is possibly town. That said, these answers are important to me:

John: Why did you fake being Shotty? What did you hope to get out of it? What DID you get out of it?

We hoped to see how you would talk to a "new" player, who you have no meta/information about. We did get to see that you lightened up a bit, and was putting things a lot simpler (as expected).

I'm going to assume you read all of my posts as you are claiming to have done so. What about my play PRIOR to pressure on me was scummy to you?

Will answer in a little while. We feel that re-reading everything from you would help to clear things up.

Why is "playing differently" a scum tell? I'm not trying to insult or belittle you here, honest question: Do you know how to look for intent? If yes, did you do so when analyzing my play, or did you just note that it was different?

Because having been looking at a couple town games of yours, we were noticing that your posting style was out of place. We both reviewed, and both agreed.
As for your intent - We were analyzing it, and are seeing both scum and town tells in it.

What is your read on Xonar, taking his post-ban posts into account?

Meeeeh, his shenanigans with Ryker were interesting. We saw a bit of town in them.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

@Dark Horse: How was my catchup transparent? You saw a clear town thought process? Could you show me a bit of it?

You were going into clear detail about exactly what you thought. It wasn't as if you were hiding anything. As such, I think you're town.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Because having been looking at a couple town games of yours, we were noticing that your posting style was out of place. We both reviewed, and both agreed.
As for your intent - We were analyzing it, and are seeing both scum and town tells in it.

Elabo rate

 

[TekcaT]

On which part. Past games or his intents?

For his intents, there were pieces we really did not like, and others that showed him trying to be town.

Can go quote you some examples right now..

 

[Dooms]

Elaborate on the posting style part.

 

[Kantrip]

Herro.

Back from the ban :3

Apologies in advance, I can't quote while banned.

So did you come back to this post and add quotes in?

I've been keeping up with the game, here are my results:


That's pretty eww. Especially because he's doing that right now.


Alright, this is perfectly fine. But look at this;


Which is disgusting. Especially when related to what Ryker said. You're going to make one hell of a case to justify comparing what I did to Swiss to what I'm doing/I did with you.

And then there's the case of using meta on me.

And the rest of the post is DISGUSTING AS HELL.

Vote: Red Ruy/b]

Up to here is pretty fine. No reads come from it either way.

Have elaborated on this before. Don't know if legit dumb or really bad at thinking before talking.
Really not sure what to think of Dark House at the moment. I know I give bad players a pass real easily.
On the other hand, he doesn't really do anything that terrible. The fact that he constantly rehashes information is something I would expect out of him and his level. Especially with information EATING players like me, Ryker and Zen. We three are basically the most active players on all of dGames.

On the other hand, his extreme lack of new information and lack of thinking as an individual sets me off.

I'm really cautious though. I know Dark House was one of the easiest mislynches I've ever to my disposal in the majority of FL, and even had a legit scum read on him.

*sigh*

Surface level? Scum.
Meta level? Mixed bag.

Don't particularly care for this section as he leaves a back-door for his read on DH and I don't reallly see Xonar assessing the slot. He says stuff about he gives free passes too easily, and cites why he's cautious from a past game, and then says something that he doesn't like from DH in general. In the end, though, he gives a "surface level" stance and a meta level stance without weighting either of them in importance (from what this game is showing me of Xonar, meta is really important to him), and with a stance like "mixed bag" he really says a whole lot of nothing about Dark Horse.

This quote is very wrong.
Not for what's in it, but for what's not in it.

Zen knows what happened in Ryker mafia. He knows it's a bad thing to meta me. Yet, he never comments on Red Ruy's comment w.r.t me.

I'm confused here, Xonar.

Are you saying you expected Zen to comment on something, and so this post is gross only because he didn't mention that thing?

Ewwwwwww. Very eww.
Would prefer TakcaT route at this point.

Not disagreeing, but why from that post? Is it because you know John made that post, or just the post in general?

Holy **** Kantrip is in this game didn't realize.

Do not like. Too careful. Keeping options open?

How is that too careful? Because I called Dooms leaning town instead of solid town?

I actually really like this. It fits with what I expect out of Kantrip, being really careful around me. Especially after FL is the last game we played together. He probably witnessed Gigabots too.

I actually have a solid town read on Kantrip now. Good shee~

You're not wrong, but I don't think you should be using meta as your primary reading tool. I thought I remembered you being more analytical of intent? You always told me I was doing it wrong and I thought you'd practice what you preach. Less meta reliance please, Xonie

Later edit:
I've actually thought about Kantrip some more. I want to see more before saying I have a town on Kantrip. He keeps his stances very non-committal, but that might be due to the fact that he's being careful.
Meh.
It is just very unusual. Usually Kantrip keeps chasing and never gives up his single stance. Don't know if improving or just...

Yes I'm being all-around more careful this game. I'm trying not to tunnel, and I'm trying not to jump to conclusions about things. Strayed from that a bit in my interaction with TekcaT, but yeah.

The other thing here is his ability. Pressure does NOT seem pro-town.

I agree. I agreed as soon as I saw it. Hence me claiming it upon my entrance into the game. My first order of business, as a matter of fact.

Mhm.

I actually want to see more by Kantrip about RamZen and the other way around.
I think I found something here... (!)

Is this the kind of "something" you'd be willing to share or is it the type of thing that could happen again?

Regardless.
I read Ryker's gambit yesterday before going to bed. At first I was mad, because Ryker never fakeclaims Vig. He told me that.
Then things started not lining up.

Alright. Work with me here because I haven't worked it out entirely yet.
First let's write down some factors:
Kantrip has Pressure
Ryker claimed Vig and wants to shoot me/Kantrip and lynch the other
Almost nobody down for lynching either
Ryker doesn't pursue
This is sloppyRyker maybe?



First of all, Ryker claimed Vig and wants to lynch Xonar/Kantrip and shoot the other.

The first problem I encounter is that he never tries to pursue these reads. He never convinces anyone. I know Ryker, and Ryker tries to convince people of his reads. I learned something very important from Ryker: "Don't expect others to win the game for you."
But that doesn't fit the current Ryker at all with regards to this.
Then again, this is probably sloppyRyker we're dealing with.

I like that you're thinking this through like this, but there's too much meta and it feels more like you're trying to convince us Ryker is being sloppy and less like you're actually thinking it through.

Another semi-counterpoint is that he has Red Ruy as follower and could probably convince TeckaT and Dark House because they would die otherwise. That's 4 votes total. (5 if you count JTB, but eh).
Four isn't enough though.


Problem two: "The other will be getting lynched today. Sort that out amongst yourselves."

We all know that abilities this game work with PP. Now, Ryker is a smart guy. He analyzes and he's literally years ahead of most players this game except me obv.

Now, why would this guy even CONSIDER shooting Kantrip when he has Pressure?
He could fake more PP by demanding to shoot me, if he even has only 1PP.
But he doesn't demand it.
This is my biggest qualm. Why would he tell us to sort it out ourselves when his optimal plan is far from the actual optimal plan?


Then there's the third point of him telling me he never fakeclaims dayvig and using it as meta to get away with this? Meh.


Problem three: "Yeah Xonar you got me this was a gambit good detective work bro" - hypothetical Ryker

NOPE.
It couldn't have been a gambit. I know Ryker, if it was a gambit he would've done it earlier. With this amount of time left AND denying an extension, he would've done it earlier to garner more reaction and gain more control. That's what Ryker does.

Ryker has fakeclaimed vig in twilight phase with the threat that he was shooting me before in some game or other, though I can't remember which. It was a gambit.

*Another point with Ryker I figured
Why the hell would he claim vig this early in the game? If he really is a vig it is probably PP limited. I doubt that he'd shoot off of a D1 read rather then save it for when reads are more well-defined.


Now, this is either scumRyker or townRyker with the sloppiest gambit ever.
Or he's telling the truth and playing it REALLY REALLY bad.

One thing is that Ryker knows Laundry's question system and could've abused it to get the vig. Mhm.

So much WIFOM. Do you actually USE this stuff when making decisions on people's motivations?

Now, Ryker, if you insist on shooting me, which is the only logical option available from your point of view, even when others are telling you to shoot someone else, then tell me. I have something you REALLY want to know if you REALLY aren't gambiting and want to shoot me.
REALLY.

Considering voting Ryker here. Want to see him more first.


sorry for the chaos there, I might've still missed things (and I did, it's up there now though).
I wanted to wait til Kantrip reacted til I posted this, but he did. Let's get to that.



But wow this caught my attention:


Which reminds me of something else Zen said earlier that really was stuck in my mind. Don't remember it though. Errrr.

Anyway.

Kantrip's responses are pretty legit imo.

Why did you feel the need to say that what Zen said reminded you of something if you couldn't remember what it reminded you of? Does it make him look scummier or townier, this thing you can't remember?

My responses as in my responses to pressure? Legit because they don't look faked?

Tblock's 336 once again aligns with my thoughts.
and I am pretty darn confident in my ability to read T-Block.
Town.


Vote: TekcaT[/b
Vote: Dark House[/b
Vote: Red Ruy[/b

I also don't like Nabe too much, but he needs to post more.

T-Block's 351 is peculiar. I can see where he's coming from though.

Read it all. I like Kantrip actually, but can still be scum with RamenZen.

You must have found something pretty astronomical if it can make one of your townreads scum so easily? Do you already think Zen is scum?

 

[Kantrip]

Cmon kntrip

I honestly wasn't going to bother my head with all the anti-town statements and gambit sentences he throws out yet. I have a leaning town on him just because of his interaction with Ranmaru where I didn't like Ranmaru and established that they were very unlikely scum together.

Do you need me to reread him now?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

For his intents, there were pieces we really did not like, and others that showed him trying to be town.

That's not elaboration

 

[TekcaT]

Comments aren't on every quote, but that's a quick skim of what we liked/didn't like with Kanty recently.

[collapse=Bad posts]

Yeah you're scum.

Call me out on OMGUS when I was on your slot in my first slew of posts?

Nope. Look at my posts, since I now know you haven't.

Tell me "I know you're better than this." Not sure what this is, AtE or something? I don't even know but it's scummy. Some sort of psychological thing.

Geez, defs OMGUS tho. Yep.

I still can't believe you're calling me out on OMGUS.

What did you think of my catchup posts? Answer in 2 minutes or less or I know you faked your FoS on me. I want reasoning too.

Withing a few minutes, two of his three posts in a row have him getting bent out of shape over "calling him out on OMGUS".

T-block are you reading this ****? i've had an interaction with both heads and hate both. What is the possible town motive?

"Can I have an outside opinion to back me up PLEASE"

It's pretty obvious you guys had a premeditated plan to suspect me, seeing as Shotty had a TERRIBLE superficial reason and John hadn't even read my content.

[/collapse]

[collapse=Good posts]

My question was worded kind of badly.

I'm trying to say I don't think TekcaT is scum with DH since they are putting DH as #1 scum and openly wanting the lynch to go in that direction. I feel they are more likely to be scum with RR because he is apparently still "leaning scum" for them. Yet when you asked about DH and RR they said they weren't seeing him as scum. This discrepency is point 2 for me.

Then the driving home meta is knowing that RR likes bussing and distancing so it would make sense for his scummates to be calling him scummy but for John/Shotty to obviously not want him actually lynched.

Basically I was just asking you if you saw the Takc/RR connection more likely than a Takc/DH connection, because I do.

Some level-headed analyzing.

This is before I had even interacted with the TekcaT slot. I had qualms with them and even FoS'd them in my next post. With my vote being on Red Ruy, it should be implied that they are my second scum pick to RR when I FoS them:


This FoS also happens during a conversation with Shotty where Shotty calls me scum for my play being "different to others he had skimmed of me and John". Not only is this really not true, but there's also no way this is a legitimate reason.

@Shotty: Tell me what my play was like in the games you skimmed. Which games did you skim? Why was my play here different?


Then John comes in and FoS's me because I'm "exploding at nothing". Nothing about John's FoS refers to my play being "different from the norm". In fact, exploding at poorly-substantiated votes is very normal for my town play.

At this point, I've seen both heads call me scum as soon as they see me post. They call me scum for different reasons that are both terrible. As I've pointed out, they were my second scumpick before the interactions even started.

I reiterated that they are scum:




Then I voted them, swapping theirs and Red Ruy's places on my scum list. At this point, I'm pretty sure they had a premeditated plan to vote me. Probably John's idea: "Hey let's gang up on Kanty since he reacts badly to pressure." Something like that. That's WIFOM though, and not important right now. It's just what my thought process was.


He calls me out on OMGUS. It's HERE that I start to suspect John hasn't read my content. He would have seen me FoS his slot earlier, but he calls it OMGUS now because he's only seen me say "TekcaT is scum", which happened after he FoS'd me. I had my FoS on his slot first, though, and he would have seen that if he had read my catchup posts. But wait, there's more!

The whole "you're better than this" is really scummy, too. John has done it before as scum as a sort of AtE. Meta, also not important right now. Again, it was part of my thought process.




Since I suspected he hadn't read my catchup posts, I asked him to tell me what he thought of them in 2 minutes or less. He responded in time, sure, but he wasn't even looking at the right posts.


He doesn't correct me, and he doesn't fix his mistake and refer to the proper posts. Instead, he elaborates on the posts from after there was pressure on me. If this doesn't prove that he neglected to even LOOK at my catchup posts, what does it mean?

Maybe he missed them, and didn't know they even existed? Possible. But then he's still scum, and I'll explain why.




Deflection. I tell him he was looking at the wrong posts, quite calmly as you see here, and he does this. He's trying to end the conversation since he has been called out in a lie.




Again he tries to change the subject by asking useless **** about "when I interacted with both heads". He has completely moved away from the topic at hand, and for what? What's the town motive for asking this question. He knows DAMN WELL that I HAVE interacted with both heads of the hydra, so WHY does he need me to prove it?

If anyone can tell me this I'll back off, but there is NO REASON TOWN WOULD DO THIS.

Here we go. He says that both heads agree my playstyle is out of the norm. The part that Shotty said was out of the norm was my catchup posts. The part that John never read, never referred to, and never even knew existed are my catchup posts. He makes YET ANOTHER effort to change the subject by calling for T-block's help (T-block is not scum with TekcaT from this) and asking T-block's opinion on my play.

T-block says it's pretty similar to how I always play, but he still doesn't like it. I can respect that. I can't respect the flat-out lies I got from BOTH HEADS of the TekcaT hydra.

TL;DR Summary of Events

-I post a series of catchup posts coming into the game. Among them I dislike TekcaT.
-Shotty calls me a slight scum lean because my play is "different than it has been in other games he's skimmed of me and John."
-I ask him to tell me how playing "differently" is a scum tell, because he doesn't even say my PLAY is scummy, as he is not looking at anything but the fact that it's "different." I FoS them because of this.
-I start getting hyper defensive over Ryker and a herd of his sheep wishing death upon me.
-John FoS's me for getting defensive.
-I vote TekcaT because John's FoS added to the hatred I had for that slot already.
-John calls it OMGUS, so I get the feeling he hadn't actually read my content since I had already FoS'd his slot.
-I ask John to comment on the catchup posts that I still think he never read.
-He referred to the posts where I was getting defensive.
-I called him out on those not even being the right posts and told him I thought he was lying and had never read my content.
-He attempts to change the subject/end the conversation/use AtE (he's done this before as scum).
-He later says both heads have found my play off, yet only one of the heads even read the "play" that they found to be strange.

I don't want to replace out, but I'm definitely not fit to be playing mafia. I'm freaking out over the littlest things and it's overall just not fun for me right now. What I hate is how Ryker can get a lynch off on me without ever lifting a finger, and how I have to do so much ****ing work just to convince anyone of anything. I really didn't enjoy making this post, so when it's ****ty, I'm sorry.

And that wall of text. It was decent.[/collapse]

 

[Kantrip]

We hoped to see how you would talk to a "new" player, who you have no meta/information about. We did get to see that you lightened up a bit, and was putting things a lot simpler (as expected).

Well yeah. At first I assumed I was talking to John, and when it got clarified I just believed it because I saw no reason why you guys would lie about which head you were at that point.

Did you get anything alignment-based off of what you did, though? Sure I changed my demeanor, but I would do that EXACTLY the same as town or scum? Did you actually expect something useful to come out of it?

Will answer in a little while. We feel that re-reading everything from you would help to clear things up.

Hope to see it as soon as you can.

Because having been looking at a couple town games of yours, we were noticing that your posting style was out of place. We both reviewed, and both agreed.
As for your intent - We were analyzing it, and are seeing both scum and town tells in it.

Could you explain and find examples while you're rereading? I will admit right now that I was TRYING to play differently. How I play the game hasn't been working and I'm trying to get better. I want to see why it's SCUMMY, not why it's DIFFERENT. If you've seen my scum play before, or my indy play, you'll notice that those don't match this either. Does that mean I'm no alignment?

Meeeeh, his shenanigans with Ryker were interesting. We saw a bit of town in them.

Seriously? Was it just because you saw him saying a lot of words? You can be honest with me, because I highly doubt you actually looked at that stuff in-depth.

 

[Kantrip]

Okay, I think I understand.

TekcaT bases reads off of rationality. If someone keeps their cool and makes sense, they are "town", and if they are off their rocker, using emotional responses, and/or analyzing irrationally, they are "scum"?

Is this even partially correct?

 

[TekcaT]

Well at times Ryker makes zero sense, but we like him.

Mobile-skimmed that interaction between Xonar and Ryker.

 

[Kantrip]

Dooms and Dark Horse: I understand you guys want elaboration, but if I'm seeing this right I really think it's superficial and there IS no elaboration.

Best course of action is to drop this and let TekcaT spend their time on other issues instead of wasting it all on me. If we choose to lynch them then we choose to lynch them, but we're not going to get much more out of this.

Unvote

 

[Kantrip]

I do want to know what was bad about the last quote in your "do not like" pile, though.

 

[Dooms]

John. What is the purpose of anything you're saying. Are you still calling Kantrip scummy? I seriously can't tell what you're going for with that slot anymore.

I'm fine with a Tekcat lynch if he's going to keep on playing like this.

 

[TekcaT]

You trying to pass it off as "Oh don't worry guys, they have a predetermined plan to kill me, so ignore them and their shenanigans".

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Kantrip why not unvote in yellow? Curious.

 

[TekcaT]

Will need to discuss this with the other head later, but for now Kantrip is null.


Why would he unvote in yellow, Bronar?