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Last duke biweekly! Online prereg! $20 venue $0 entry|m2k, armada, pp, ally attending

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DJRome

DJRome

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the problem is that spam is almost always a response to someone unable to respond correctly. if you don't want to lose to spam, get around it. i can guarantee no good player will be beaten by mindless spam
 
Lightsyde

Lightsyde

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Sneak8288 said:
Either way dsmash isn't hard to bait, especially on platforms and i thought you played fox vs him, i remember you saying something about cc dsmash but all you have to do vs someone who ccs is drill
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I did play Fox vs him. Nowhere in my post did I say otherwise.

I also did not laser camp him so I guess that's my fault.

And yes, drill beats crouch cancelling but it's also a lot easier to mess up and doesn't have the range of Nair or Bair, and even slightly misplacing it means Dsmash to whatever.
 
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Sneak8288

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Darksyde said:
I did play Fox vs him. Nowhere in my post did I say otherwise.

I also did not laser camp him so I guess that's my fault.

And yes, drill beats crouch cancelling but it's also a lot easier to mess up and doesn't have the range of Nair or Bair, and even slightly misplacing it means Dsmash to whatever.
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Yea but using nair or bair can also lead to the infamous cc dsmash. Either you gotta adapt to the situation or the same thing is just gonna happen over and over. Just practice it and it won't be easy to mess up, and work on the spacing or and unpredictable approach and u won't be misplacing it and once you do get the drill off its **** from there. You got drill waveshine upsmash or drill grab upthrow uair or any other things you wanna do. But if your just getting dsmashed THAT much then your just putting your self in bad situations and you just gotta make better decisions to keep you out of them
 
lord karn

lord karn

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I actually think peach is pretty much even with falco. I also think that falco theoretically wins the jiggs matchup too, it's just that there are so many exchanges that falco is, being a more technical character, is much more prone to mistake, and each mistake leads to a kill. That matchup is not unwinnable, just really hard.

Also, drill really isn't the best. First of all, it has bad range and can be spaced against really easily. The peach doesn't have to be standing in one spot crouching to cc everything. You can just wait and crouch right before something hits you. Second, if drill hits, most of the time peach can just sdi away and the follow up shine won't hit. So at most you'll get like drill to one uair or something. It doesn't really lead to much if the peach knows how to sdi out of drill.

The best way to beat cc dsmash is to run away shoot lasers, space delayed bairs, and bait moves and then aerial her out of them (can't cc when you're in the middle of a move). A spaced delayed bair can't really be cc dsmashed, except maybe at like 0 or something. Run around and get on platforms and force peach to chase you. Then when she's not in her zone (on the ground dsmashing or floating above and to the side of you) run up and hit her with your superior aerials and speed. You don't even really have to laser camp unless you want to be really gay. You just can't run in mindlessly. Camp the same way cfs do if you want.
 
lord karn

lord karn

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hehehe. I'm actually trying to learn how to play without camping. I don't camp david in friendlies anymore. I don't remember if I camped stingers this time or not. maybe that's why I lost.
 
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Sneak8288

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Once you start drilling alot of them stop ccing. In a nutshell, its just being able to adapt to whats happening. If I'm getting cced that what I do and it works, ALOT. Especially full hop drills. I've even seen alot of high level foxes do the same vs peach also. Tri-state has a couple high level peaches and ALOT of high level foxes so i've seen the matchup be played alot and drill always seemed to work pretty good, not saying its the safest option, but a good one
 
lord karn

lord karn

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I can't imagine a lot of situations where fullhop drill is good except for maybe a mix up in shield pressure? Most moves will trade or beat drill straight up and you can throw a move out before a full hopped drill will hit. Unless of course the full-hopped drill is used to beat a baited dsmash, in which case that goes under what I was talking about baiting dsmash and punishing it. Unless the peach is really good drill will **** combo her (and thus be the best move to punish the baited dsmash). However, all characters can avoid a shine follow up after drill most of the time if they sdi right. This is why you don't see armada getting ***** by waveshine combos. Once peaches start doing this it's best to go in with a nair or bair and do those kinds of combos.

Overall, I tend to use the 'theoretically best' options when I learn what they are, even though I know using the 'worse' options against he players I play with might be better, because I know they don't know what to do against it. I'm not sure if that is a weakness or a strength of mine.
 
stingers

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drill does beat aerial approaches but generally peach doesnt try to challenge fox in the air because her options for characters above her are so poor. and yes if you're holding down and then the fox comes in with a drill you wont SDI it so its good for that. but i mean I see a fox coming in from the drill "angle" (you know the one thats not the nair angle) and I get ready to sdi behind him. its just muscle memory at this point lol
 
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Sneak8288

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lord karn said:
I can't imagine a lot of situations where fullhop drill is good except for maybe a mix up in shield pressure? Most moves will trade or beat drill straight up and you can throw a move out before a full hopped drill will hit. Unless of course the full-hopped drill is used to beat a baited dsmash, in which case that goes under what I was talking about baiting dsmash and punishing it. Unless the peach is really good drill will **** combo her (and thus be the best move to punish the baited dsmash). However, all characters can avoid a shine follow up after drill most of the time if they sdi right. This is why you don't see armada getting ***** by waveshine combos. Once peaches start doing this it's best to go in with a nair or bair and do those kinds of combos.

Overall, I tend to use the 'theoretically best' options when I learn what they are, even though I know using the 'worse' options against he players I play with might be better, because I know they don't know what to do against it. I'm not sure if that is a weakness or a strength of mine.
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I've seen jman do it alot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60b7365XOSw take this match for instance. It's definitely effective imo. Its not the best match to show what im talkin about but you can see where drill definitely works still at high level
 
AlcyoNite

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i see what karn is saying though. the thing is, there is no end all be all to beating dsmash/peach because she can respond to drill just like fox can respond to d smash. what karn is saying is that drill is not a viable response to d smash in every respect because she can eventually space away from it/di it/do stuff to counter it. If the peach is smart enough to respond to the drill, then the game changes, but the first step is to respond to the d smash and drill is a good way to do that.

If ive learned anythig over the summer, its that ANY thing (just about) works at high level because u will find urself in countless situations that can demand particular responses. For example, i traditionally banned counter from my moveset pretty much altogether because it could be baited and such, buuut what if the opponent isnt baiting counter? Then im going to use it until he does...now ive effectively limited his options until he forgets that i have counter...then im gonna use it sum mo! same thing with needles. I LOVE charging a full clip of needles, watching the opponent try to shield it, cancel the charge, take a few steps forward, and THROW THE NEEDLES > BAM > almost 20% fo FREEEE, NIGGUHHH!!!!

mindgames, basically
 
lord karn

lord karn

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I think jman got dmg off of one drill that match. the other times it either did nothing or he actually got ***** for trying it. Remember, you can also jump before drill hits and then dmsash when you hit the ground.

Basically, theo is right.
 
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Sneak8288

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Yea like i said b4 its just adapting to the situation... I was mostly just saying a way to deal with cc dsmash.. once they stop doing it you adapt accordingly
 
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