Kown takes a beating ADDED VIDS!! CRITIQUE

[kown]

Alrite so before you go thinking that i suck and whatever watch this video..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5at1VHsEUQ&feature=channel_page
this was ay my friends house and since there was only one wii we alternated after one game..

Spoiler

As you can see i like fighting in the air and im hardly on the ground attacking. Hes a very good rob player so dont be like he was easy or anything.

read this after you watch the video..

THan everyone left except for me and the falco player.
a falco limits my air approach alot... and here are alot of vids of me getting wrecked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORV7iMRpIl0&feature=channel 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAhc0DZwwns&feature=channel 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbaF0oZjvL8&feature=channel 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm1cLbCtKvM&feature=channel 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOfV8mTo3cI&feature=channel 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW_D8XPoK3I&feature=channel 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXgmARhmhos&feature=channel 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptAmzfNEg_Y&feature=channel 8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwzNp4yyqBA&feature=channel 9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7IM3OvnbdU&feature=channel 10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH0vMU5-WCU&feature=channel 11 - i win this one..maybe theres something im doing better in this vid than in all the other ones....something to think about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8j_aYnRH5Y&feature=channel 12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoJeMGIPKWI&feature=channel 13
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOMxZu94x5s&feature=channel 14

than we agreed that this would be our last game since it was like 1 am.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLc9VVUJJAY&feature=channel 15

the camera went out of memory so we decided just to play it out and than i would go home.
i kinda figured out the matchup better and ended up winning the last game. .... but before all this i couldnt control the matches.

my problem is approaching falco...obviously i dont have control of most or all of these matches...I think the reason is that i can't approach very well in the air against falco without eating up damage...

i need some advice on what to do when im on the ground..i tend to smash alot on the ground just because im usually in the air and I finish with smashes on the ground..
any feedback is good..

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vids on 7/11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBj0Kn5E6ZI&feature=channel_page vs Jerm as TL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aISWVuPZpRA&feature=channel_page vs esca as D3 and Luigi

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vids on 7/13

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGgP0iNR1F8&feature=channel_page vs Quivo as TL...im not really sure why my wings didnt refresh...oh well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB68YGN0Tv8&feature=channel_page vs RT as Lucario
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvA4kkANgHg&feature=channel vs RT as lucario
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qrd_wKRn_eg&feature=channel_page vs poptop as Wario

 

[rinoH]

wow you did get wreaked but use more AAA combos and angel ring dont use dair so much use Nair more

 

[kown]

wow you did get wreaked but use more AAA combos and angel ring dont use dair so much use Nair more

i need advice than nair...laser easily shuts me down.

 

[rinoH]

wait does nair cancel out the lasers ? then you oculd just approach with it

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

Nope, lasers goes through nair. I have this same problem against people with a good spammable projectile...

 

[kown]

i need some advice..lol...the main problem is dealing with the laser...than the CG...the only downfall is falco's ability to kill but even than its not that hard with double laser to upsmash.

 

[AnonymousX10]

Hmmm, if I were you, I would've annoyed him by mirror shielding it. Then he'll prob. stop and dash attack towards you... then so on.

 

[gunterrsmash01]

How convenient, the Falco boards are discussing Pit this week o.o

dude that was fun, we should play more

 

[kown]

yea mirror shield could work...and i would prolly do that in tournies....it just seems the only way to win this by staying close to the edge...thats y i wanna c if anyone knows an approach.

 

[Hayang]

I can't really give much advice since I am a lot less experienced than you are... Falco pressured and pressured and made sure that once you got annoyed of the lasers and approached he would:
1 - Grab you or smash you if you came from the ground
2 - Hyphen smash you if you came from the air
3 - Shield if he was late in reacting and wait for a laggy attack to miss or hit the shield.

Over the matches you learned not to let falco get far enough away to barrage you with lasers, but once you got close you didn't do great because falco has so many options out of shield.

The thing I noticed about your failed approaches is that a lot of them hit his shield or came too close to it and he would shield grab or attack with jab, ftilt, utilt, sometimes a KO move. Might I suggest setting up your approaches so if you fail then you land behind him? That'll take care of some of his OoS options and give you a few frames for him to turn around. You might also want to bair him on fullhops since you'll either hit him hard or push his shield far away. Bairs in general might be good because of the lingering hitbox. Empty SHs might work alright to your advantage too since they give you your ground moves if he decides to shield.

In OoS battles I think your best options are your jab combo to retreating roll/SH since its your quickest attack.
Fsmash is not good since he seems to DI out of it half the time and punish you. Don't spot dodge much either. Pit's grab is not a great option since his grab range stinks compared to falco's and has lag.

Also I think you should take advantage of times he is above you by doing a uair. I don't know for fact if it outprioritizes his options when he's above you but my guess is that it will.

These are my humble observations. I hope they help a little. Again I'm a scrub and you should take my advice with a big grain of of salt, but I stand by what I say.

 

[kown]

thanks hayang...haha all that made sense...but yea spacing is really important seeing that you cant out spam nor can u stay too close...at least from what i have experienced.
dont act like your bad or anything...or even that im better than you..your advice was really helpful and we will leave it like that.

but approaching is still a problem..some of the vids im kinda experimenting with different approaches..i failed with everything.

 

[rinoH]

ive played massiveguns a good falco and what i did was get him off the edge because thats where falco fails

 

[Coffee™]

...thats y i wanna c if anyone knows an approach.

You focus a bit too much on your aerial game and there were a lot of situations in those matches where certain options from your ground would have been more applicable.

As for direct approaches I would say ART is probably the best approach for Pit in the Falco matchup. It reflects his Lazers and he has nothing that really outranges it besides Fsmash and possibly Dsmash but overall its a relatively safe approach.

Another problem you had is that you would never challenge Falco off the edge except with your arrows, which as you can see from some of your matches resulted in him living to fairly high percents that he really shouldnt have.

 

[Hayang]

I liked the 14th or so video where you experimented with quadruple hop airdodges XD

And yeah an angel ring once in a while would be useful.

 

[kown]

yea quadruple airdodges was me being desperate lol...angel ring yea thats true...i never really use the move but i guess ill make an exception...the problem with chasing a falco off the edge is the phantasm would near spike me...without me doing anything. so i just find it useful to arrow...but could u explain how i should chase him?

 

[Phaigne]

kown takes a beating? Sounds like every other Saturday night.

 

[cj.Shark]

hmm my friend although not a good falco spams and cgs me all the time so heres my advice
Play it slow. inch toward him and barely ever attack. Shield about everything. Powershielding lasers and walk up to him and hit him with a f-tilt. if you edgeguarding use arrows. if you wont make it in time. spotdodge and hopefully f-smahs him other way. falco can shut down ur f-airs and n-airs really easily with laser. all in all i find this matchup is easiest if you can play extremely patiently and use low risk moves

 

[kown]

kown takes a beating? Sounds like every other Saturday night.

your mom's rough. : )haha jk

hmm my friend although not a good falco spams and cgs me all the time so heres my advice
Play it slow. inch toward him and barely ever attack. Shield about everything. Powershielding lasers and walk up to him and hit him with a f-tilt. if you edgeguarding use arrows. if you wont make it in time. spotdodge and hopefully f-smahs him other way. falco can shut down ur f-airs and n-airs really easily with laser. all in all i find this matchup is easiest if you can play extremely patiently and use low risk moves

yea that would be it..powershielding lasers..i gotta work on that...would inching up using AR or MS work too? or only PS....or what about AD?.

 

[KY_Des]

MS won't work. SHDL won't be affected by MS bc falco will jump over all the reflected lasers and continue to laser as if were weren't doing anything at all.

 

[rinoH]

so what i do i hit them with an arrow which proabably lower them from the rang of phantasm so they have to go for the firefox then i just gimp them

 

[Hayang]

Being able to powershield every laser he gives you can be quite daunting... This guy I played just stood there at the beginning of the match and we had a moment of silence until i started spamming arrows at random intervals... He powershielded every one., didn't even miss one out of like 50 i threw. That kind of thing messes with people's minds a bit.

After that match I was like lol "Pit forces people to approach" is complete hogwash

 

[Flamingo]

How do you other pit players fare against Falco?

 

[KY_Des]

Kown you can CG Falco. I didn't watch all the vids, but out of the ones I did watch I didn't see you do it. It's a free 40%, so if you get a grab at low %, you should do it.

 

[Coffee™]

Falco's Jab will allow him to get out of being regrabbed. The most you will be able to manage is 2 grabs, you would be better off using grab to dash attack/Utilt

 

[KY_Des]

If you're shield cancelling the grab that shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Hayang]

I would suggest this when you chase a falco off the edge. After your high knockback move, run after him until he is almost out of hit stun, and do forward jumps and arrows until you are near him, and then a fair.

 

[kown]

you can CG a falco.. i know i tried to do 2 grabs in a row at 0 percent in one of the vids and he got out of it with a spot dodge.

How many of you guys agree that falco should come to pit? or would it be better if pit slowly went to falco?

 

[rinoH]

falco should come to pit

 

[kown]

so in the matchup pit is basically side camping?

 

[rinoH]

prtty much

 

[kown]

ionno that doesnt seem right..i mean look at the 11th vid.. i won with one stock left and hardly any damage taken... i know i do camp at times..but i am also in the air..i think i was just playing with less risk and less reward..but i ended up doing more damage than being taken.

 

[rinoH]

i guess you need better spacing and dont get grabbed and i guess you have to sorta camp back at them

 

[kown]

alrite so i checked the CG....it works but u ahve to be perfect for each grab....i set a lvl 9 computer to run and the most consecutive amount of grabs i got was three...my average amount of grabs on the comp was 1 and then would roll away after the first throw..so best case scenario is that there is a real CG or its just fluke in wha the computer was doing.

 

[Rogue Pit]

I noticed we play similar now, tell noone.
Lol kown got owned, btw dont do cpus you can fthrow lv9 pit like 3 times.
Also you basically have to go to falco unless u sit there with mirror shield.
Your looking for to approach? Powershield lasers or hit him with an Angel Ring, kill two stones with one bird. Or a good space fair should do, try getting close to so he cant use projectiles, pivot grab alot, and try the shadutil thing i showed you since hes grab happy.

 

[cj.Shark]

try the shadutil thing i showed you since hes grab happy.

Short Hop AirDodge Uptilt. is Til part of tilt? or maybe IL means something else?

 

[Rogue Pit]

Dan internet channel, yea shadutilt, but thats between us xD

 

[Ryos4]

Ive fought many campy/spammy falcos in my day. In fact the leader of HSK is a falco main who actually suggest players to play campy and spammy.

Best suggestion i can give is to practice ART for an extra type of an approach you can sometimes use against spammy people. As for fighting him close range on the ground. I just suggest launching him in the air. Idk when i play, my ground game is mostly jabs, Dtilts, Dattack, Utilts, or anything to knock him in the air. If hes the kind to always air dodge you when you try to follow up, you can easily just angel rings and follow them down, this is where ART comes into play. Im actually starting to use angel rings more, mostly for combo finishers, just for that last extra bit of damage.

Or if basically pummeling him wont work, try for a more defensive style with lots of mirror shields, most u have to worry about is phantasm. And it will never kill on its own and doesnt do much damage.

But what works for me most is mixing both offensive and defensive, and switch it up form time to time. Regardless of how well or poor i am doing at the moment. It seems to work and throw off their rhythm. If you get use to doing this enough, it wont bother your rhythm at all.

 

[kown]

i noticed when i get him in the air im doing doing numerous attacks on him....so like getting falco in the air is key...its just getting him there which is hard.

LOL at rogue saying we play the same..i didnt even notice you saying that the firs ttime.

i gotta say more stuff but i g2g for now

 

[teh_pwns_the]

hmm i dont know why you felt the urge to appraoch so much stay back and mirror shield him, force him to approach, thats where pit really shines, shutting down approaches

but if you must approach, try some aerial AR's every now and then just to switch it up, and as long as you end it real quick it will normally get a little push on the guy to keep him off you while you figure out something to do

 

[Seiya7]

kown didnt you knock ozz out at HOBO 12?

anyway i don't know if you watched all of our matches at HOBO 13 but i played pretty campy as well. and ya i agree wit the others that its best to make falco approach you. to stop his lasers i would short hop MS and power shield them and it seemed to work. you mainly have to be patient in the match but it pays off i ended up eliminating him XD

and o ya u actually gave me this advice before our matches "DONT GET GRABBED" lol