Koopa VS Kefka -- The Endless Tournament ends! Who took home the prize?

[Picture Perfect]

@Potato: Can you talk about your matches a bit more too? You said you got 2-0'd and this is the other major match I have my eye on.

 

[Picture Perfect]

PJB and Wott need to talk more about the possibility of townRake. I'm looking at match results and I know both of you came to this conclusion.

 

[Picture Perfect]

@Pawn: How did Gheb know Soup was having a nervous breakdown like he claimed in the hotel room? While this could be a wild goose chase, I want to investigate this further just in case.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

PJB and Wott need to talk more about the possibility of townRake. I'm looking at match results and I know both of you came to this conclusion.

It's actually not very complicated. looking back over Rake's early posts, I'm able to see things from Rake in a more townie light. Like his #126 initially looked kind of terrible to me, like he was trying to cover for his scumbro soup. In hindsight, it actually looks more like he's just legitimately trying to read soup in ways that don't make sense, which is something I've come to expect from Rake. He reads with his gut more than his head, and this reads like it could be the case.

Another part of what's been making me not like Rake is that he typically posts ALL THE THOUGHTS he's ever had in a stream of consciousness fashion. This is something we're not seeing in this game, but this is something I was recently burned for trying to use to read him in Scott Pilgrim. My meta on him is getting a little stale, because what I thought was scumtells from him in that game, is actually a lot like how he's playing now, and he was town there.

I'm not saying I have a solid townread on him, but I'm not sold on him being scum like I was in the earlier game. He needs to start doing some work before I give him a town pass.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Anyways, time to elaborate more.

Yesterday, 5 matches were won, one player had a bye, and two players were dqed due to cheating in their matches. While it's hard to draw much, we can at least form preliminary ideas of the scumteam and start to gain a better basis for reads through the match results. Due to the small sample size, some of these ideas are simply assumptions and are liable to change as more data becomes available but if we can scumhunt today, we are only going to get anywhere through a flip from a player that has actually made connections and by analyzing the closest thing we have to a flip outside of that--match results. The removal itself is a different mechanic and I've both already addressed it and will address it more in the future. Right now, I want to focus on match results.

For reiteration, here are the results of the matches yesterday:

PP>Koops
Soup>Ryker (DQ)
Gheb>Rake
Pawn>Potato
Fab>Ruy
Shoco (0)>WOTT (0)*

Bye: PJB

*The (0) means that no points were awarded due to being caught cheating by the tourney cop

I'm going to make a couple of assumptions. First, that PJB is town. This means that, second, at most, four matches yesterday were played with scum in them. Third, as a result, at least two of these matches featured TvT. Fourth, I think those two matches are probably us vs Koops, given how the match played out (it was close, neither player cheated), and Fab vs Ruy, based on their accounts of it in the hotel room.

Taking those two matches out of it, we are left with Soup vs Ryker, Gheb vs Rake, Pawn vs Potato, and Shoco vs WOTT (while both slots were DQed, the match was still played out and we can gather information based on that).

Soup vs Ryker is a wash. If scum was in this match, we gain no actual bearing based on it. I want to assume that Ryker, as scum, wouldn't modkill himself because he would know the impact it would make to his team. He would, at worst, prod-dodge his way to removal or victory, one or the other, but at any rate, his flip will say enough. I can't make anything of Soup winning because he won by a forfeit. Whatever. There is a decent chance this game was TvT itself but whether it is or not, I can't tell. Ryker will be removed soon and Soup will get to play matches, which'll give me all the info I need on either slot.

We're left with three matches: Gheb vs Rake, Shoco vs Wott, and Pawn vs Potato. While Gheb vs Rake extended to three rounds, the other two matches were won in two rounds by both players. I want to assume that at least four of the scum lie here, simply because I don't think it lies in PJB or the two TvT matches, and that probably means the winners are indeed the scum. It's highly likely that Shoco is in his game, given that he cheated against one of the most town slots in the game in Wot, regardless of his (piss poor) belief that Wot was scum. Gheb vs Rake was apparently a more square game. It's possible that it could be TvT. It's also highly possible that it could be SvS, just played squarely because neither had a reason to cheat against the other. In either case, I can't draw a lot as I can't question Gheb anymore, as he's decided that being an ass is more important than playing the game for his alignment, and Rake simply isn't ****ing here.

The most interesting of them is Pawn vs Potato. If I were the cop, this is what I would've watched. Pawn claimed in thread he didn't cheat, yet he 2-0'd Potato. That is 100% possible but every other match I've seen that didn't result in cheating was a fair match, outside of Fab vs Ruy (Fab claimed to have cheated in the hotel room but didn't do it right in Round 1. I have reasons to believe they are town though), where the loser took at least a round off the player. It's less likely to me that Potato lost fair and square and more likely that Pawn did, in fact, cheat but claimed otherwise.

To me, this leaves a working scumteam of Gheb/Shoco/Pawn/Ryker, Soup, or Rake. The problems I have with it are that I don't see why scumGheb would intention to SoupvPotato as SvS if they were his mates or be so adamant about Shoco being scum. Pawn and Rake make sense with scumGheb, based on the way Gheb has treated both of those slots, but it's hard to see Shoco with them. I'd like to remove Shoco from the team but Shoco is either the dumbest ****ing townie in existence or scum and I know which one is a lot more likely.

This is a tool. Keep that in mind, I'm not drawing definitive scumreads, I'm just using results to back up reads made based on play. At the very least, I come close to what I had.

I would like more feedback on this. Please respond.

 

[Picture Perfect]

It's actually not very complicated. looking back over Rake's early posts, I'm able to see things from Rake in a more townie light. Like his #126 initially looked kind of terrible to me, like he was trying to cover for his scumbro soup. In hindsight, it actually looks more like he's just legitimately trying to read soup in ways that don't make sense, which is something I've come to expect from Rake. He reads with his gut more than his head, and this reads like it could be the case.

Another part of what's been making me not like Rake is that he typically posts ALL THE THOUGHTS he's ever had in a stream of consciousness fashion. This is something we're not seeing in this game, but this is something I was recently burned for trying to use to read him in Scott Pilgrim. My meta on him is getting a little stale, because what I thought was scumtells from him in that game, is actually a lot like how he's playing now, and he was town there.

I'm not saying I have a solid townread on him, but I'm not sold on him being scum like I was in the earlier game. He needs to start doing some work before I give him a town pass.

Okay, comment on the post above.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Fab admitted to cheating in my match in the hotel room.

 

[Picture Perfect]

I want this game's pace to at least double. At the rate we're going, we'll be done in the middle of like December. There's still at most 5 more days to Cycle 1 and that's not even including how long Cycle 2 will take. The only major points of information are going to be from the cop, who I still contest we should help as much as possible, match results based on what I just posted, and the sole removal we're going to get. As a result, scumhunting, while still ****ing important[/i] (shoutouts to all the mother****ers here to play their matches and not much else), is going to a bit stagnate.

Here's what I propose we do during the morning phase:
1. Talk about match results to see if they influence reads and make pushes based off of them. Again, these are the closest we have to a flip, so we need to make use of them.
2. Make any room changes we need to. I know I want to talk to Joker and Wot at some points and there are players that probably want to talk to me. This should be organized quickly though.
3. At this point, most of our strategy and ideas are set but if any brilliant ideas occur, we should still talk about them.
4. Decide on a bye quickly. By now, bye choices should be rather obvious, it's just a matter of specifics.
*Make use of our removal at some point in the game. Flips are information and information is vital here.

During the match phase, we should do as follows:
1. Continue any major threads left off from morning phase. There is downtime during the matches so we may as well make use of it.
2. Discuss matches and match results as they come up, but probably not during as that would influence match progress.
3. Suggest possible matches the cop should review as a help.

Sound good?

 

[Picture Perfect]

Fab admitted to cheating in my match in the hotel room.

I thought I made note of that. :v

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

nvm didn't see that when I skimmed that post.

still at fab.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Unvote Removal
All me obv.

What do you say to switching rooms?

 

[Picture Perfect]

nvm didn't see that when I skimmed that post.

still at fab.

jiggs strikes again

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I think that analyzing the player matchups to see if there's any way for it to be balanced is probably a good idea. We can't say with certainty that there are zero SvS matchups in this round, but by comparing it with future rounds from here on, we can see if our scumreads are constantly facing each other or not. This will help us decide if it would be a balanced setup or not for the scum faction, since they pretty much have to be able to all get into top seeds if they want to fulfill their wincon.

 

[Picture Perfect]

I think that analyzing the player matchups to see if there's any way for it to be balanced is probably a good idea. We can't say with certainty that there are zero SvS matchups in this round, but by comparing it with future rounds from here on, we can see if our scumreads are constantly facing each other or not. This will help us decide if it would be a balanced setup or not for the scum faction, since they pretty much have to be able to all get into top seeds if they want to fulfill their wincon.

Okay. Comment on the actual results of the first round? Do you have any specific thoughts on match-ups? As much as I like general talk, it's also supposed to be a talking point for players to progress their reads.

 

[Kantrip]

When I chose my Main, pawn chose his Main. When I chose my CP, pawn chose his CP. There were no colour advantages at any point in our match, and we always had 1 colour each. His just always beat mine.

My match against Shoco was interesting. We ended up going to final round final match or something crazy. I won in the end. Again no cheating, but there were times when Shoco had a colour advantage for no reason. Is this what is shown when someone cheats? If not, why the random colour advantages when we both chose counterpick?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Request: Room change, to Room4

Bye: Wots All This Then?"

 

[Picture Perfect]

@Mod: Given Ryker's modkill and a likely bye today, that leaves matches amongst 11 players. What are you going to do about this?

 

[Picture Perfect]

When I chose my Main, pawn chose his Main. When I chose my CP, pawn chose his CP. There were no colour advantages at any point in our match, and we always had 1 colour each. His just always beat mine.

My match against Shoco was interesting. We ended up going to final round final match or something crazy. I won in the end. Again no cheating, but there were times when Shoco had a colour advantage for no reason. Is this what is shown when someone cheats? If not, why the random colour advantages when we both chose counterpick?

Well this is scummy as ****.

 

[Picture Perfect]

time to go find a shoco post and spam the **** out of it and hope the ****** shows up to actually respond to the obvious question of explain that ****

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I'm not at all convinced that either Rake or Gheb cheated in their match. If you saw their match results, like I did, it's no wonder Rake got bodied so handily. I'll talk to you about it in the hotel room.

As for the pawn vs kantrip match, meh. I think it probably played out the way they say it did. No reason to think they cheated, when they say they didn't.

In Shoco's case, I'm a little appalled that they decided to cheat vs watt. There's no reason for that ****, watt is pretty much a universal townread. He should be advancing as far in bracket as we can get him.

In the future, I think we should consider directing what matches our cop watches, and dictate if we want someone to get busted cheating, due to us not wanting them to get seeding points. At the very least, we can try to assure that our townreads do not end a round with no points, and that their matches will play out fair and square.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

When I chose my Main, pawn chose his Main. When I chose my CP, pawn chose his CP. There were no colour advantages at any point in our match, and we always had 1 colour each. His just always beat mine.

My match against Shoco was interesting. We ended up going to final round final match or something crazy. I won in the end. Again no cheating, but there were times when Shoco had a colour advantage for no reason. Is this what is shown when someone cheats? If not, why the random colour advantages when we both chose counterpick?

Are you refering to the fact that somebody's move had more than one color? Because some moves just have that. I can tell you that I already know at least 2 characters who have moves that do.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I suspect the way matches work is that if someone uses their counterpick against your main, they get a free color buff. If you use your main vs main, or cp vs cp, no color buff will be given. There are, however, some moves that have multiple colors. Both that I've seen are colors sitting next to each other on the chart.

 

[Dooms]

Is Ranmaru on V/LA or something? I have no clue where he is (I think he went to SKTAR actually, but I'm not 100% certain). I now know what it feels like to solo a game you should have a partner for, and all I can say is that I'm so sorry Ranmaru ;_;. Please forgive me.

In other news, I'm going to hold off on posting anything about room switching or reads until tomorrow because I just watched brokeback mountain and I'm kind of bawling like a little girl at the moment ;_;. Also, I'd prefer to wait for Ranmaru anyways, since making a decision like room switching (which is something I assume we can't take back) is bleh when I'm only half of the slot. Personally though, I'm 100% for it.

Explanation on the cheating thing. Round one versus Ryu, I made the match decision (main/cp) because why not, and it went into the phase (our main versus his counter pick). After that, Ranmaru asked to cheat, but Nabe said that it was too late and we'd have to wait until next round. I don't think I've participated in any thing match related since .

 

[Picture Perfect]

Are you refering to the fact that somebody's move had more than one color? Because some moves just have that. I can tell you that I already know at least 2 characters who have moves that do.

 

[Dooms]

I can confirm what PJB is talking about. We found a character like that as well. Just in case anyone was wondering.

 

[Picture Perfect]

We're talking about this and playing a match tonight, PJB.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Yup. Will do.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Just to tell.

I had two color advantages when I CP'd Laundry in our match, but I think looking back at it, it;s more so due to the stuff the mod, Wario, said about using the same characters because idk why I got 2 advantages against Laundry when I didn't cheat and never will during this game.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

It's very possible that Wario was telling us to use the same characters all the time, because it actually gives you an advantage. Being more familiar with your character certainly would be a benefit to you in a fighting game, and if your opponent didn't share those same advantages, it would certainly give you an edge.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

This makes me wonder if the advantage of getting a Bye to next round is worth losing out on experience with your characters. WATT, you still want that bye?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

If it is a thing at all is also to wonder.

I only got it when I CP'd Laundry and I didn't get it when I cp'd Jigglypuffnightmarerapist.

It might be a thing but I did get two when I cp'd PP.

 

[Shocodoro Blagshidect]

Well this is scummy as ****.

Not really it's a character in the roster actually we found 2 of them, but one had multiple double colors. I thought that giving the character's name out would just lead to scum/everyone picking him up. And as a side note, the so called "color advantage" ended up screwing us more than helping. Because when we pick the same color, the one with the multi-color lost. Because it has a color after the other color so the matching single color beat it.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Tru fax, there's no reason having multiple colors would purely be a benefit. It opens up as many weaknesses as it gives advantages. It essentially would make it so you beat 5 colors instead of just 4, but you also lose to 5 colors, instead of just 4. It's not exactly a pure buff, it's a strategic decision.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Considering I've yet to get it outside of CPing someone, I'm a little skeptical but with so many people telling me they've found it, I'm less worried about it.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Some characters literally have moves that just have more than one color attached to them. That's just the way the move functions, 100% of the time. It's not a buff, it's just what the move does. If you haven't seen it, it's just because you didn't use one of those characters, and none of your opponents used one of those moves.

 

[Shocodoro Blagshidect]

In Shoco's case, I'm a little appalled that they decided to cheat vs watt. There's no reason for that ****, watt is pretty much a universal townread. He should be advancing as far in bracket as we can get him.

Uhhuh. No. I want my biggest townread to advance to the end of the bracket, a little birdie also told me that he has an individual wincon to get first place in the tournament. So, I'm not surprised that my biggest townread cheated against WOTT, feel me?

I agree with PP's day plan, but I'm still worried about the who Bye deciding when there, again, is not really a way to determine who is town at this point, other than easily fake-able things such as trying to progress the game, but whatever.

I want to be in a room with PP and PJB. If Ryker gets modkilled and Kantrip ****s out of my room tonight, it can be in Room 2.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@Mod: Given Ryker's modkill and a likely bye today, that leaves matches amongst 11 players. What are you going to do about this?

If a situation occurs such as this, the randomly selected player with no human opponent will play against a CPU (myself) with two randomly selected characters using randomly selected moves.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Request: Room change, to Room2

 

[#HBC | J]

So it's been two days, where's Gheb?

 

[Picture Perfect]

Some characters literally have moves that just have more than one color attached to them. That's just the way the move functions, 100% of the time. It's not a buff, it's just what the move does. If you haven't seen it, it's just because you didn't use one of those characters, and none of your opponents used one of those moves.

I know, which is part of the reason why I'm skeptical.