Koopa VS Kefka -- The Endless Tournament ends! Who took home the prize?

[Picture Perfect]

Alright. Are you fine with juggling fab and joker between our rooms?

At least until Joker settles down, yeh, definitely. I'd also like to talk to you for a night.

Not what I had in mind. It revolves around gheb's ideas pertaining to the setup and the mafia faction we all yelled at him for earlier in the game.

Is it in your quote storm of him above? I saw the post but I actually haven't gotten to it.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Remove: Gheb

No more votes on Gheb anyone.

This is fine with me.

Considering it, I don't think we gain anything at all from Ryker's death though. He made no connections in thread and was never here. If we nail scum, whoohoo, but if he's town, damn? I mean, it's not like we can really do anything with this.

I think we need a flip that makes connections to actually get a solid direction from this game. For me, right now, that's Gheb.

I know we don't get anything from him connections wise, but we do run the risk of going form 9v4 to 7v4 and that is a big drop in numbers bracket wise.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Why is the removal on gheb fine soup? Am I off basis in 1667?

quote for emphasis

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Actually, yes. My room talked more about it but I want things to play out naturally before I comment on it.

I'll bring my thoughts later, more or less I have doubts Gheb is scum off meta but how he has played does have some issues with me.

That and I wanna bring some attention about another player.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

At least until Joker settles down, yeh, definitely. I'd also like to talk to you for a night.

We can do You for Joker then tonight if that works out. You can also interrogate rake.

Is it in your quote storm of him above? I saw the post but I actually haven't gotten to it.

That's a post about the possibility of gheb town. The quotes I'm talking about are indeed in there but i didn't touch on them in that manner.

 

[Picture Perfect]

I know we don't get anything from him connections wise, but we do run the risk of going form 9v4 to 7v4 and that is a big drop in numbers bracket wise.

I know, I'm aware of this. We have to start weeding them out at some point. I hate the idea of missing, but Gheb and Ryker dying starts to shrink my pool of potential scummers and I do have ideas of where to look providing they both flip town.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

I'll bring my thoughts later, more or less I have doubts Gheb is scum off meta but how he has played does have some issues with me.

That and I wanna bring some attention about another player.

o really? Who is that other player?

 

[Wots All This Then?]

I know, I'm aware of this. We have to start weeding them out at some point. I hate the idea of missing, but Gheb and Ryker dying starts to shrink my pool of potential scummers and I do have ideas of where to look providing they both flip town.

If that is the case, and you have a provisional plan for it, then that alleviates a lot of my concerns.

 

[Picture Perfect]

We can do You for Joker then tonight if that works out. You can also interrogate rake.

Nah I think Joker wants to talk to me for tonight. Gotta be Super Fab. I can get you tomorrow night I think.

That's a post about the possibility of gheb town. The quotes I'm talking about are indeed in there but i didn't touch on them in that manner.

Okay.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Also I have stuff to talk to you about with characters and moves if we end up in the same room PP.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Nah I think Joker wants to talk to me for tonight. Gotta be Super Fab. I can get you tomorrow night I think.
.

I can deal with this.

 

[Picture Perfect]

If that is the case, and you have a provisional plan for it, then that alleviates a lot of my concerns.

I'm not doing something risky like this without contingency plans. Who do you take me for, Soup?

 

[Picture Perfect]

Also I have stuff to talk to you about with characters and moves if we end up in the same room PP.

Cool, so do I!

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ok, imma be upfront with this since i don't really see getting it done unless I out it.

one of my personal goals is to spend a night in each of the hotel rooms. I've already roomed in room3, which was a snoozefest. Me and Watt got some stuff done last night in room1, so now i'd like to stay in PP's room next, which is room4. In order to do that, somebody's gotta go to make room.

after that, all that will be left is room2, and then I can settle down wherever I feel I can be most productive. Maybe we can even swap around to get the right people in the right rooms?

As for things that were discussed in the room last night, Watt and I decided there was a pretty good chance Rake was town. I'll try to get into that more later, cuz right now I'm sleepy tired.

I forgot to do this yesturday, I got similar lol. It's more people specific but I gotta change rooms later for the prize.

But still idk, watching Balto, Brave little Tiaster inception, hunger games, and playing a match in the room was pretty swag. I might just say **** the optional stuff.

Nah who am I kidding I wanna visit other people.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

#shotsfired

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Cool, so do I!

I forgot to do this yesturday, I got similar lol. It's more people specific but I gotta change rooms later for the prize.

But still idk, watching Balto, Brave little Tiaster inception, hunger games, and playing a match in the room was pretty swag. I might just say **** the optional stuff.

Nah who am I kidding I wanna visit other people.

I guess doing stuff with lots of people is the cool thing for nabe to put into wincons?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

quote for emphasis

Because it's a change of direction and will get discussion flowing instead of stagnating on reads that have been repeated for nearly the whole game. It also will help with connections and the alike. I understand people throwing out the argument of the risk factor, but nothing will change if we don't take risks.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Interedasting.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

1694 was a response to 1692 fyi.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

WATT, I'm not sure what you're trying to do trying to delay this.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Didn't Nabe say we can get a replacement for Ryker?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I haven't been able to play a single match yet, by the way. Potassium played with Shoco in my room and Ryker is gonna get modkilled or replaced at this point.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

o really? Who is that other player?

Shoco I got problems with how they handled themselves even when my room thought it was mostly Xonar.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

WATT, I'm not sure what you're trying to do trying to delay this.

I'm trying to not screw us over numberswise, but if Laundry has a contingency plan then I'm fine with the risk.

Didn't Nabe say we can get a replacement for Ryker?

You can try, but no one responded to ryker's post or to nabe's post about it.

 

[Picture Perfect]

First post from Gheb that's not RVS banter-ish. I liked that gheb was breaking down soups post and questioning him on it, and that he touched on more then one aspect of it here.




These two posts feel like gheb just isn't sure how to play this game, which I feel like scumgheb would make sure he was much more on top of it.


This was actually a pretty novel idea at the itme and It's still something I feel like we should do-don't see a reason for ghebscum to put this out there.
Ghbe not knowing the game. Consider this a townslip.
Original Rake reasoning. Yes I know there's not much substantiated here, but I feel like this is a traditional gheb townread explanation.
Mafia gheb should know how his own scumteam works yes?

This is a fresh input on the thread. It might be wrong, but Kantrip even said about J'd entry post into the game "this type of argument is something that hasn't even been considered yet!" and I odn't see why you wouldn't put the same logic here.(not attacking kantrip here)


Classical Ghebtown salt here, really makes me doubt he is scum.

On the surface, you look right. Dig deeper about his salt, as I think you're wrong there. The one thing that actually gives me pause is the comments about the scumteam. I glanced over them initially (4 in the morning while I was doing that), and I failed to factor them in.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Shoco I got problems with how they handled themselves even when my room thought it was mostly Xonar.

It was. Seph's made all of like 2 posts I'd imagine.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

I haven't been able to play a single match yet, by the way. Potassium played with Shoco in my room and Ryker is gonna get modkilled or replaced at this point.

I got part of a match in with joker last night so he's got some experience in.

Shoco I got problems with how they handled themselves even when my room thought it was mostly Xonar.

Bold is referring to it just being xonar's playstyle or which head was posting?

 

[Wots All This Then?]

On the surface, you look right. Dig deeper about his salt, as I think you're wrong there. The one thing that actually gives me pause is the comments about the scumteam. I glanced over them initially (4 in the morning while I was doing that), and I failed to factor them in.

Gheb's much more composed as scum. OS's comments after Liar game and R&R's toonami reflect this. I don't think he'd explode here so easily as town with just one person going at him.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Because it's a change of direction and will get discussion flowing instead of stagnating on reads that have been repeated for nearly the whole game. It also will help with connections and the alike. I understand people throwing out the argument of the risk factor, but nothing will change if we don't take risks.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Gheb's much more composed as scum. OS's comments after Liar game and R&R's toonami reflect this. I don't think he'd explode here so easily as town with just one person going at him.

Didn't play in Liar's Game, don't remember Toonami because both Xonar and I dipped early on in it. You guys seriously think I read every game? Who do you think I am, ?

Give me more of an example of how he's composed. One of my most recent examples is Raz's Skies of Arcadia and that was over a year ago.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Didn't play in Liar's Game, don't remember Toonami because both Xonar and I dipped early on in it. You guys seriously think I read every game? Who do you think I am, ?

Give me more of an example of how he's composed. One of my most recent examples is Raz's Skies of Arcadia and that was over a year ago.

I was talking about the toonami you were supposed to co host with ryker Lemme drag up posts though. This will be from Soup's earthbound.

 

[Picture Perfect]

I haven't been able to play a single match yet, by the way. Potassium played with Shoco in my room and Ryker is gonna get modkilled or replaced at this point.

Y'know, I do have to wonder what Kantrip gained by being in a room with you. If it really was just to read you, I really want to see something come of that rather than him continuing to bicker with you in thread.

 

[Picture Perfect]

I was talking about the toonami you were supposed to co host with ryker Lemme drag up posts though. This will be from Soup's earthbound.

Oh, that other game I joined as a hydra and then never played. Cool.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Nobody talked, literally. Potassium just played a match with Shoco and that's it.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Y'know, I do have to wonder what Kantrip gained by being in a room with you. If it really was just to read you, I really want to see something come of that rather than him continuing to bicker with you in thread.

Wasn't his stated reason to read Ryker?

 

[Picture Perfect]

 

[Picture Perfect]

Wasn't his stated reason to read Ryker?

I thought it was Soup. I'm pretty sure J can back me up on that because that was the reason he told me for Kantrip joining that room prior to Kantrip even saying it.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

[collapse=Gheb posts]

I'm growing really tired of your laughable accusations, of you not reading and of you just being generally bad in this game.

I think scum is more likely to do it though. It's always been that way.



I want Glyph, frozen or you lynched toDay fyi. You seem to think Badwolf is my top priority lynch because my vote's on him.



In my opinion, he has been doing that much of a better job. Feel free to disagree and point out how and why I'm wrong. I'm always open to new, unconventional stances.



Wouldn't call them policy lynches and even if they were policy lynches I don't see how that's a reason not to finally get rid of them once and for all. You seem to think that the fact that they are policy lynches makes it less likely that they are scum [or at least you make it look that way to me] but I think that's a dangerous line of thinking. Imo something is wrong when somebody is still considered a policy lynch on Day 3. If you really want 1.5 question marks in lylo then I guess you wouldn't mind having them around but I don't want such a scenario to occur.

Also, since you don't seem to have an issue with Glyph getting vigged would you be helpful enough to also make it clear to Badwolf that he should kill Glyph soon? You understand that we have to assume his claim to be a lie if he doesn't make a decision soon? The longer we have to wait on him, the more we will scramble to get a decent lynch toDay, which is the last thing we'd want.

Badwolf is scum:

- He's been buddying Swiss HARDBODY all game for no reason. Even when Swiss was under suspicion Badwolf just blatantly meatrode him.
- He's not made ANY input whatsoever. He has not pushed a single scum read all game and his catch-up posts have no content at all.
- He has not been reading anything either. Seriously, who the hell legit forgets that his former #1 lynch has already flipped town and continues to "push" the slot?
- Every singled player agreed that either Glyph is the playerslot Badwolf should use his ability on or that at least they aren't against it. It's obvious that town wants this to happen yet Badwolf doesn't do it.
- He claims to want to shoot me instead. Why? No reasoning offered whatsoever. But conveniently I had already made a legitimate case against him to which he has still not anwered. Before that he had mentioned me as a townread a couple of times in his catch-up posts and often agreed with me or pointed out how he likes post #XY of mine. But as soon as I point out how and why he is scummy he threatens to shoot me. [Similar things hold true @T-Spin and Ryu. Both keep mention me as on OK vig / lynch but never point out why or their reasoning has been pooped on Days ago].
- His claim is not very credible. We've already had two deaths each Night and now there is supposedly a Dayvig kind of role too? One that kills the target but not instantly but only after Day phase ends? This is like the ultimate cop-out claim because even if he pretended to shoot we'd have to wait until the end of the Day phase to see whether it's legit or not.
- Badwolf has been procrastinating on shooting way too long. Even with all players telling him to shoot Rockin - even Rockin himself - he has not shot him but instead threatened to shoot me depending on my claim. Even after I purposefully gave him a useless claim he wouldn't actually shoot me and said "this is why I want Gheb dead". That already says it all: Badwolf didn't inherit the ability to shoot from Swiss. His claim is a lie.
- Even if Badwolf shoots now he's been keeping us waiting for something he could and should have done earlier. If he shoots now we'd have to find a new lynch within approximately 24 hours. Do I have to point out that this is blatant anti-town behavior?



@Blue

But right now all the facts clearly point towards the notion that Badwolf did just claim to "save his ***". Right now he's living entirely on people having faith in the idea that he could theoretically "confirm" his claim [which is a fallacy - he could only confirm to have inherited Swiss' ability which is NOT indicative of alignment. It could still be a scum role, easily]. His claim has definitely saved his *** for sure because even now that it should become increasingly obvious that his claim is garbage people like Ryu are still naive enough to believe that he can prove himself and allow him to live on this very vague and weak assumption that stands in opposition to a mountain of damning facts. If ever a scenario came to pass where you could accuse somebody of "saving his ***" then it would have to be this scenario.

@Red

No, you are the one who has to give a better explanation than to say "nobody has shown us why he'd do that as scum". Because he plays scummy in such an obvious fashion we're supposed to question that it is scummy to begin with? Is that your justification to let him get away with stuff like what I pointed out above? By that logic you could justify any kind of scummy behavior because if it's so obviously scummy a scumbag wouldn't do it. Badwolf is not too scummy to be scum - he's too scummy to be town.

@Yellow

Two-man mafia team is possible especially if we entertain the [rather realistic] idea that an indy team exists as well. ToS and Pizza Mafia both worked that way. Wasn't it you who introduced the idea to begin with? You'd have enough reason to assume a two-man mafia to be not that unlikely. If we assume Ryu's claim to be legit for the moment there is an anti-town power that can either permanently disable town PRs or - even worse - make them their own. That's pretty damn powerful. Powerful enough to make the idea of a two-man team not look unreasonable from a game-balance point of view. So it's not safe to assume that Badwolf is town because he'd screw his final mafioso over - he may actually be the final mafioso.

But for the sake of the argument, we'll assume a three man team for the moment: do you really think it's that unlikely for Badwolfscum to behave like this? Both of your heads have played Ryu's Toonami Mafia. You've seen to what extremes Badwolf is capable of going when somebody finds out he's scum and pushes him, didn't you? With that in mind I don't think it's in any way unlikely for him to play like he does right now as scum. On the contrary - he seems to be prone to losing control over himself as soon as something like that happens to him as scum. In Toonami Mafia both of his scummates were alive when he suicided. It didn't seem to be much of a problem to him. Finally, there's still a chance that Badwolf is indy too.

...

So now that I've responded to your points and clearly showed that your arguments in no way decrease the chances that Badwolf is scum I'd like you to respond to my points and show why a townie would play like that - if you still think he's town that is.

Nothing's changed for the time being. They might've had pretty telling interactions yesterDay but we have need to be sure that it's not Washed simply talking weird to Kantrip in order to make it look like there's a connection where there is actually none. Either case is a possibility too look out for because it makes Kantrip look either good [if Washed was just trying to fake a connection to make Kantrip look bad in case of a WLslot flip] or very bad [if Kantrip was responsive to it in a transparently distancing manner] but JTB and Gheb didn't get to talk about it yet. Once we talked it out and still think Kantrip is scummy we will bust out quotes and all. If this doesn't happen you can assume that we're not going to pursue his lynch anytime soon.



Very interesting that you're leaving Rake out of this, especially re: bolded. If you think it's "very doubtful" that scum does not have name safeclaims then how does it make sense to you that Rake was still able to counterclaim correctly? What reason do you have to assume that scum *does* have fake nameclaims facing this fact?



ScumWashed - knowing who is not mafia - can make anybody look bad post-flip by meatriding somebody or making points that look like weak distancing in retrospect. Let's assume he did that to you - would you think it's justified if people tried to base a read on you on that? Do you think that such a read has a good chance of being accurate? Feel free to look at it though, all you'll find is Kantrip being whack as hell talking about me when I actually have nothing to do with it and have pushed and supported his lynch all Day. He could've randomly chosen anybody he wanted to for this and you would still not be able to actually work with it because the player you're trying to find something out about is not doing anything actively but is just passively being talked to in a manipulative manner.

[/collapse]
Batch of gheb posts which I feel are more indicative of his composure as scum.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

dafuq happened with that? There shouldn't be quote tags around anything outside the collapse field.

 

[Picture Perfect]

so what you're saying is that gheb actually plays the game as scum

interesting