Koopa VS Kefka -- The Endless Tournament ends! Who took home the prize?

[Picture Perfect]

Uhhuh. No. I want my biggest townread to advance to the end of the bracket, a little birdie also told me that he has an individual wincon to get first place in the tournament. So, I'm not surprised that my biggest townread cheated against WOTT, feel me?

if it's something along the line of do your best in the tourney, everyone has it. you're not special.

I agree with PP's day plan, but I'm still worried about the who Bye deciding when there, again, is not really a way to determine who is town at this point, other than easily fake-able things such as trying to progress the game, but whatever.

I want to be in a room with PP and PJB. If Ryker gets modkilled and Kantrip ****s out of my room tonight, it can be in Room 2.

I'm...not totally against this.

 

[Picture Perfect]

If a situation occurs such as this, the randomly selected player with no human opponent will play against a CPU (myself) with two randomly selected characters using randomly selected moves.

Can I fight this in PMs? I disagree with this method.

 

[Shocodoro Blagshidect]

if it's something along the line of do your best in the tourney, everyone has it. you're not special.

Yeah, I know, which is why his reaction is stupid.

I'm...not totally against this.

then suggest another room, because this ******

Request: Room change, to Room2

decided to **** on that plan

 

[Shocodoro Blagshidect]

Also, tell me what I can do to progress this game during this phase. If you disagree with me, tell me why again. I'm not against it, I just don't see an effective way to do it.

 

[Shocodoro Blagshidect]

Disagree with me on the whole issue of "what do I even do this day phase".

 

[Wots All This Then?]

@WOTT: Talk to me about your matches. You say you lost hardcore, how did the second round of your match go?

J and I are talking and we think we can push this into a direction.

I cheated, used our main, and shoco used counterpick and won. he cheated, but I don't know that it was necessarily a mafiat's cheat.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Also, tell me what I can do to progress this game during this phase. If you disagree with me, tell me why again. I'm not against it, I just don't see an effective way to do it.

I don't really have good advice because I like to see how players operate when left to their own devices. This phase I actually find to be the least important, at least once we use our removal (which we don't look to be using today). Match phase is where the game gets interesting and I think we can get the most from it. I'd like it if we had this phase wrapped up by tomorrow but I doubt that'll happen.

The other thing about you joining our room is that I dunno if my own hydra partner wants that ****, let alone the rest of our room. I was just speaking for myself there.

 

[Picture Perfect]

I cheated, used our main, and shoco used counterpick and won. he cheated, but I don't know that it was necessarily a mafiat's cheat.

describe the second round to me

 

[Shocodoro Blagshidect]

I don't really have good advice because I like to see how players operate when left to their own devices.

Don't give me that **** after posting **** like this. You disagree with me, fine. I ask you why, you say "I want to see what you do when left to your own devices". Not fine. I just told you that I'll do nigh anything, as I don't see anything productive to do.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

describe the second round to me

that was the second round. Our first round we CP'd, got a buff, and shoco won. We did not cheat, and the "color" beat both of our move's color.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Anyways, time to elaborate more.

Yesterday, 5 matches were won, one player had a bye, and two players were dqed due to cheating in their matches. While it's hard to draw much, we can at least form preliminary ideas of the scumteam and start to gain a better basis for reads through the match results. Due to the small sample size, some of these ideas are simply assumptions and are liable to change as more data becomes available but if we can scumhunt today, we are only going to get anywhere through a flip from a player that has actually made connections and by analyzing the closest thing we have to a flip outside of that--match results. The removal itself is a different mechanic and I've both already addressed it and will address it more in the future. Right now, I want to focus on match results.

For reiteration, here are the results of the matches yesterday:

PP>Koops
Soup>Ryker (DQ)
Gheb>Rake
Pawn>Potato
Fab>Ruy
Shoco (0)>WOTT (0)*

Bye: PJB

*The (0) means that no points were awarded due to being caught cheating by the tourney cop

I'm going to make a couple of assumptions. First, that PJB is town. This means that, second, at most, four matches yesterday were played with scum in them. Third, as a result, at least two of these matches featured TvT. Fourth, I think those two matches are probably us vs Koops, given how the match played out (it was close, neither player cheated), and Fab vs Ruy, based on their accounts of it in the hotel room.

I can see this.

Rake simply isn't ****ing here.

I've hydra'd with rake three times and personally talked with ihm about mafia a lot and I just get the feeling that rake, while being a lazy ****, actually is making the same sort of thought process he usually does. It's odd seeing ihm this...nonexistent, but I can see(especially in that one lunch phase where it was just me and Rake) that his brain actually is still working.

The most interesting of them is Pawn vs Potato. If I were the cop, this is what I would've watched. Pawn claimed in thread he didn't cheat, yet he 2-0'd Potato. That is 100% possible but every other match I've seen that didn't result in cheating was a fair match, outside of Fab vs Ruy (Fab claimed to have cheated in the hotel room but didn't do it right in Round 1. I have reasons to believe they are town though), where the loser took at least a round off the player. It's less likely to me that Potato lost fair and square and more likely that Pawn did, in fact, cheat but claimed otherwise.

Would you say that this shows that your pawn read is in fact off? How does it line up with his day phase play?

To me, this leaves a working scumteam of Gheb/Shoco/Pawn/Ryker, Soup, or Rake. The problems I have with it are that I don't see why scumGheb would intention to SoupvPotato as SvS if they were his mates or be so adamant about Shoco being scum. Pawn and Rake make sense with scumGheb, based on the way Gheb has treated both of those slots, but it's hard to see Shoco with them. I'd like to remove Shoco from the team but Shoco is either the dumbest ****ing townie in existence or scum and I know which one is a lot more likely.

This is a tool. Keep that in mind, I'm not drawing definitive scumreads, I'm just using results to back up reads made based on play. At the very least, I come close to what I had.

I would like more feedback on this. Please respond.

Take gheb out, put soup in and I can see this.

I can confirm what PJB is talking about. We found a character like that as well. Just in case anyone was wondering.

I also found a character with multi color moves.

This makes me wonder if the advantage of getting a Bye to next round is worth losing out on experience with your characters. WATT, you still want that bye?

Yea, I'll take it for today, then I'll stick with matches.
Bye:WATT

I agree with 1767 btw.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Don't give me that **** after posting **** like this. You disagree with me, fine. I ask you why, you say "I want to see what you do when left to your own devices". Not fine. I just told you that I'll do nigh anything, as I don't see anything productive to do.

okay okay okay my bad you're right

Honestly, can you give me your readslist? Has it updated? Can you give me your reasoning behind them? You've been so hard behind this game and had such little impact I'd be surprised if you did maintain some semblance of control from this point on but creating discussion that's valuable, scumhunting or mechanics, is pretty valuable. Who do you think should get the bye, as well?

 

[Picture Perfect]

that was the second round. Our first round we CP'd, got a buff, and shoco won. We did not cheat, and the "color" beat both of our move's color.

welp

p. sketchy to me but obviously nothing conclusive can be gained from it

 

[Picture Perfect]

Would you say that this shows that your pawn read is in fact off? How does it line up with his day phase play?

The three biggest reads I tried to get my room to talk to me about were on Soup, Pawn, and Potato. I wanted them to talk to me about Pawn in particular, because that read I can't see as scummy and the logic presented for it is weird. It consists of "he's not playing like he did when was newbscum" which is generally a good thing and "he's being incredibly careful" when he's been very loose-lipped at certain times. The results of the match were rather notable to me though, and I wanted more insight into it. It's a slot I'm keeping more of an eye on, but I still think he deserves somewhat of a benefit of the doubt.

Take gheb out, put soup in and I can see this..

that consists of two assumptions: gheb being town and gheb being right and **** no am i giving him that honor

Seriously though, I think it's definitely possible. Should Gheb be town, the reaction both Soup and Potato had to him calling them SvS, even if his logic was gogawful for it, might be telling in its own right. I definitely didn't like how Potato came in here dissuading us from trying to use the removal on Gheb, though. It reminded me a hell of a lot of HepAlien (Circus/Nabe) in OS All-Stars voting to tie a secondary lynch so neither party got killed instead of pushing to lynch inactive townRan, a lynch that would be hella easy to get. I realize they're different players but the action itself is rather similar--in both instances, they're taking the safe route.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

decided to **** on that plan

 

[Picture Perfect]

It reminded me a hell of a lot of HepAlien (Circus/Nabe) in OS All-Stars voting to tie a secondary lynch so neither party got killed instead of pushing to lynch inactive townRan, a lynch that would be hella easy to get. I realize they're different players but the action itself is rather similar--in both instances, they're taking the safe route.

By the way kids, since this has been a problem this game, when you reference other games and ****, this is how you do it. You don't have to give quotes, you don't have to go down and give me a massive play-by-play, just a quick summary of what someone did in that game that they're doing in this game that is telling enough. All I want is a couple sentences of elaboration. That's all.

None of this "he's playing different than he did in this game he was town in" or "go read blablamafia" and ****. I don't have time.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Can I fight this in PMs? I disagree with this method.

Of course.

 

[Super Fabulous]

I'd prefer to remove Gheb. And on moving, i'm fine with it.

Also, where are Gheb and Soup?

fine with bye'ing wott/pp.

 

[Dooms]

Gheb gave up, Soup is probably on a similar train.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Status 2-1


Bye Votecount
Ryu (

): Ryu
Rake (

): Choco
Wots (

): Pixp, PJB, Wots

Removal Votecount
Gheb (

): Ryu, Koops, Pixp, Soup

Request Queue
PJB > Room 4
Ryu > Room 2

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Request: Room change, to Room2

can i change with you i want someone i'm familiar with

I've got nothing else, really right now. Gheb isn't even here

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

can i change with you i want someone i'm familiar with

I've got nothing else, really right now. Gheb isn't even here

Go for it.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Go for it.

Request change to Room 2

because i can

Also, to all the people saying nay to Gheb, who would you say yes to instead? I'm highly curious.

 

[Kantrip]

Request change to Room 2

because i can

Also, to all the people saying nay to Gheb, who would you say yes to instead? I'm highly curious.

At this time? Nobody at this time.

 

[Kantrip]

I said at this time twice guys I should go to sleep.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I give up until I play a goddamn match or someone is removed.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

request to move to room 3

 

[Super Fabulous]

Put up a removal vote then.

also:

Remove: Gheb

 

[Wots All This Then?]

The three biggest reads I tried to get my room to talk to me about were on Soup, Pawn, and Potato. I wanted them to talk to me about Pawn in particular, because that read I can't see as scummy and the logic presented for it is weird. It consists of "he's not playing like he did when was newbscum" which is generally a good thing and "he's being incredibly careful" when he's been very loose-lipped at certain times. The results of the match were rather notable to me though, and I wanted more insight into it. It's a slot I'm keeping more of an eye on, but I still think he deserves somewhat of a benefit of the doubt.




that consists of two assumptions: gheb being town and gheb being right and **** no am i giving him that honor

Seriously though, I think it's definitely possible. Should Gheb be town, the reaction both Soup and Potato had to him calling them SvS, even if his logic was gogawful for it, might be telling in its own right. I definitely didn't like how Potato came in here dissuading us from trying to use the removal on Gheb, though. It reminded me a hell of a lot of HepAlien (Circus/Nabe) in OS All-Stars voting to tie a secondary lynch so neither party got killed instead of pushing to lynch inactive townRan, a lynch that would be hella easy to get. I realize they're different players but the action itself is rather similar--in both instances, they're taking the safe route.

You didn't have Kantrip in there, which is why i had slot soup in. Soup/shoco/pawn/[ryker/rake] is a somewhat feasible scumteam.

Put up a removal vote then.

also:

Remove: Gheb

No no no take that vote off damnit.
Switch to room one with me imo.
also hi guys I'm still here unfortunately.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Bye: WOTT

He needs points and it'll get him on the board.

Thinking about switching the removal to Shoco. Will elaborate more.

fwiw I'd be completely fine with doing this.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

In the future, I think we should consider directing what matches our cop watches, and dictate if we want someone to get busted cheating, due to us not wanting them to get seeding points. At the very least, we can try to assure that our townreads do not end a round with no points, and that their matches will play out fair and square.

The only problem with stuff like this is that there will be obstinate assholes who refuse to roll with towns wishes, which will make it impossible to discern them from scum.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

If it is a thing at all is also to wonder.

I only got it when I CP'd Laundry and I didn't get it when I cp'd Jigglypuffnightmarerapist.

It might be a thing but I did get two when I cp'd PP.

Laughed at the bolded.
You might not have picked counter against there main, which is the only time CP gets a buff.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

actually what's room 4 looking like now? I'd totally jump in there for the night if we have room. Koops left right?

 

[Dooms]

Ryu and Koopa both left room 4. I'd like our slot to leave as well. Don't think we'll go room 2, though. I'll let Ranmaru decide where we go.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Hell with it then.
Request move to room four.

 

[Picture Perfect]

You didn't have Kantrip in there, which is why i had slot soup in. Soup/shoco/pawn/[ryker/rake] is a somewhat feasible scumteam.

I think that's possible too. The thing that's nagging at me is that people keep saying Pawn's playing a radically different scum game here than he was in a newbie game. You'd think someone would be directing him, wouldn't you? Otherwise those tendencies would show up again, right?

 

[Picture Perfect]

Ryu and Koopa both left room 4. I'd like our slot to leave as well. Don't think we'll go room 2, though. I'll let Ranmaru decide where we go.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

I think that's possible too. The thing that's nagging at me is that people keep saying Pawn's playing a radically different scum game here than he was in a newbie game. You'd think someone would be directing him, wouldn't you? Otherwise those tendencies would show up again, right?

In his only scumgame he has FF as his mate to coach him through. These might be his natural scum tendancies for all we know.
Also his lack of communication might be a reason for why he's felt so lost.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

for the record, here's his QT from that game if you want his thought process.
http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/Pb6MCDwb58H

 

[Picture Perfect]

Mmm...that may be the answer I'm looking for but it seems so weak and leaves me with a lot more questions than I have answers.