Koopa VS Kefka -- The Endless Tournament ends! Who took home the prize?

[Picture Perfect]

I think by the time I have posted my original concern, you hadn't talked about Soup or any reads-related content so that was alarming to me you would direct attention to that without following it up for some time. If I'm wrong and you did talk about soup/reads before I posted then please show me via quote or just give me a post number, it would be helpful.

thanks because i didn't remember this either but i wasn't sure

 

[Picture Perfect]

Honestly, I don't really know. I just kind of realized my previous outlook was a bad one and that scumhunting in this game is important. I went over the rules again in preparation for my match and made some new discoveries that I formed into that big mechanics post, then I read some of the past pages and formed some reads.

This is the exact same mentality that soup went through early in the thread argh argh argh argh argh

why do you two ****ers do this to me **** you both **** both your slots **** this game **** life

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻​

​

 

[Picture Perfect]

Only comment I could find on Mafia communcation, nowhere does the OP state that they know each other.

 

[Super Fabulous]

thanks because i didn't remember this either but i wasn't sure

No problem. Gheb hasn't been spouting the "I am not going to talk about reads because this game doesn't need it" bit for a while, but it doesn't relieve my concerns of his early play. It's still there, he just was playing a bit better. Because he talked more about soup doesn't make his original post analyzing soup's post any valid (when by the time I posted about it, he wasn't doing anything else so it was weird to see him talk about that when he said he didn't have a need to talk about reads, so WHY POINT THAT OUT, get me?)

 

[Picture Perfect]

Actually, J was one of them people who reacted that way as well. I also think I remember pawn saying that he thinks it's unlikely that Kantrip vs soup is SvS.

I'd still like to know why. A heated argument between them two - even operating under the assumption they know each other to be scum - doesn't mean ****. So before anybody pulls out his ******** "scum or dumb" platitudes [which a.) are almost only pulled out by scum these days and b.) don't apply to me in either case] I'd like to hear a good explanation on why Kantrip / soup being on the same team is so unlikely that 4 people in unison claim that it can't be that way, that nobody except me is willing to give the idea some thought and that like 2 or 3 people immediately conclude that I'm either dumb or scum, when I'm neither.

I'm sorry, I doubt both of them, as scum, are arguing in such a contrived, stupid, and ****ing obnoxious manner spanning multiple pages where both of them act like assholes to one another as scum when the paper trail is that ****ing long, massive, and obvious. I see no evidence to assume that it's SvS and you're going to have to go into detail as to why you think you do because literally no one else sees it.

 

[Picture Perfect]

No problem. Gheb hasn't been spouting the "I am not going to talk about reads because this game doesn't need it" bit for a while, but it doesn't relieve my concerns of his early play. It's still there, he just was playing a bit better. Because he talked more about soup doesn't make his original post analyzing soup's post any valid (when by the time I posted about it, he wasn't doing anything else so it was weird to see him talk about that when he said he didn't have a need to talk about reads, so WHY POINT THAT OUT, get me?)

Gheb also had this extreme tendency to try to derail any meaningful scumhunting going on early to talk about ****ing mechanics. Don't forget that.

 

[Picture Perfect]

I've been neglecting this because this game has no real scumhunting, except reads based on dumb ****. That said, I'll catch up in like 40 mins or so, then give more thoughts. Coolbeans.

given what j's told me, this is already a terrible ****ing way to start a catch-up

 

[Super Fabulous]

Of course I won't. He even did so when I was questioning Soup. I'm not going to attribute it to anything (connections wise) because I don't know why he did it. But basically he told me to stop responding to soup when I was the one who instigated the conversation. Why in the world would I do that if I had concerns to talk about in the first place?

Also him just mudslinging you is just ew.

 

[Picture Perfect]

lets see

I dig these peeps:
PJB
Shoco
PP
Soup
Fabulous
Rake

I don't like:
WOTT
Kantrip
Pawn

I don't care about:
Ryker
Koopa
Ruy
Ghebbiecakes

gheb is just so bad that I cant distuingish his scum game from his town game, it's like a permanent noobscum/noobtown dilemma. crapshoot.

cool so my read list basically hasnt changed.

what the ever loving ****

i didn't ****ing think anyone could top gheb's readlist in ********/bad and yet someone thinks WOTT is scum. really? ****ing really? i mean, what the flying **** are you smoking to even possibly consider that as an option, let alone assume it? i'm too ****ing flabbergasted to even respond to this. any logic supporting wottscum has to be so damn hilarious

insert that'shilarious.jpg here

that i can't even consider it as reasonable.

 

[Picture Perfect]

ebwop: and that's not even considering raketown and pawnscum

what the flying **** is this sack of ****

 

[Picture Perfect]

...............................

ok so is anyone else down to use our removal on shoco? Because that catchup was ****ing horrible.

no, ramses is known to go full ******, just watch him play pokemon. lemme read seph's half of this bull**** before i confirm this statement as my actual thoughts

 

[Picture Perfect]

good **** guys scumhunting because thats so possible this game in day phases (Y) keep it up

 

[Picture Perfect]

wott looks like he's mad frontin', putting in effort but really dont see any reason to see it as town and some of the remarks even from the beginning of the game iirc just ewww

HOW THE **** IS HE FRONTING WHAT THE ****

and uh pawn i read as a noobscum from his posts. could be noobtown but it read more like noobscum to me so hey.

given that you can't read noobscum as you even said, i'll refrain from commenting.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Just go through the threads and count the amounts of time WOTT says something that makes you go "ewww".

0.

DOUSHIO, SHEEPSES

 

[Picture Perfect]

ok i quit prematurely







basically this all reads grimy as **** to me hes way jumpy on very little or very stupid things even on people he has townread (PP IIRC?) just keepin options open

okay now Im really off.
If you don't like me doing gutreads this game then whatever nerd

 

[Picture Perfect]

J, you're one pathetic hypocrite. You complain about this game devolving yet your petty comments on how people are bad and stupid and don't contribute anything to this game and your refusal to comment on things directly and just throw out general complaints are one of the key contributions as to why this game keeps getting nowhere. When you play like this I don't even need to dig out any quotes to make it clear why you need to go. If you're actually town then you're currently doing your best at making it look like the complete opposite.

I'mma just repeat myself for emphasis. Shut the **** up, Gheb.

 

[Picture Perfect]

I don't hate Seph's 1216, fwiw. I don't like it, I'm just neutral on it. Ramses being a bat**** ****** beforehand is what colored my view on the slot first. I don't think we should be jumping to remove them quite yet.

 

[Picture Perfect]

What kind of stuff are we sharing? Like do we want to publicly out what colours we and our opponents have access to? I don't know what else I want to reveal publicly. We both chose our main round 1 and he beat me, we both chose our counterpick round 2 and he beat me twice in a row. That made the set.

I personally don't want to reveal any information about my character. I'll leave that to my hotel room if I feel I can trust my roommates.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Because it's much more relevant than what is being said right now and now that matches are being played there should be something to be said about them. I personally find it fishy and I'm considering how I'm reading Kantrip right now because I believ(ed) that scum would more than likely take the win against a townie unless they cheated. I don't think I'm going to get an answer from Pawn stating if he cheated or not.

Good points here.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Very well, PP / Shoco are borderline confirmed scum, you're looking good to go as well. Just gotta see how the whole thing with Kantrip losing his set is turning out.

For real guys, how long are we gonna let this guy sit on the outskirt being antagonistic without making him answer for his bull****?

 

[Picture Perfect]

Underlined, what does this matter? I also have explained that the discussion would be moot without having a tangible reason to talk about it. You are saying you find Pawn fishy because your scumread, Kantrip, lost all three times. You don't have a solid reason for suspecting Pawn, unless you want to. If you mean something else, then please clarify. Otherwise you finding Pawn suspicious is foil hat. (Basically you think he may be scum or cheating because your scumread Kanty lost all three times, since Scum should easily win in your eyes, and I find this reasoning bad)

Again, my point is that it is odd that you are thinking that may be the case instead of thinking it is null until we are given further information.

I think he's trying moreso to flesh his read out about Kantrip. I certainly make nothing against Pawn because of the outcome but Kantrip's loss says something more than that.

 

[Picture Perfect]

No. You shouldn't be feeling ANYTHING (about pawn). Look at this example:

Someone is killed over night. You make guesses as to who did it, but you won't know who unless a tracker claimed and presented that info.

THERE IS NO WAY OF KNOWING WHAT PAWN DID WITHOUT THE COP CLAIMING HE DID IT. That's why you shouldn't waste time talking or thinking about it. Unless you think I'm wrong, then you should explain why.

I'm curious how you go into doubting Pawn after something like this.

 

[Picture Perfect]

lol this game

nabe im dying right now

just ignore gheb, he's useless

 

[Super Fabulous]

Because I don't suspect that he cheated or is scum, from his match because I know nothing of what they really did. I only know what he did in thread. Whole point of that pr example I gave.

 

[Picture Perfect]

PS: Shaco cheated in our second round as did we since he won.

Dunno about the first.

might actually explain some of ramses' bull****. interesting, good to know.

keeping my lips tight about our match until it's complete

 

[Picture Perfect]

That wasn't Soup's angle in the slightest and he even clarified that, yet you kept tunneling on that point beyond it. He was more concerned about Kantrip and his read on him, from what I gathered.

 

[Picture Perfect]

lol i ****ing can't deal with this game anymore hahaha when did i ever imply that im changing my read all i stated is that im considering based on the results



Why do you think Kantrip did not cheat, then?

soup don't devolve into this bull**** behavior again now c'mon you were just starting to be fine

 

[Picture Perfect]

So you're going to fundamentally ignore an important factor of the game because you can't look at a different perspective then what you're used to? Matches aren't there just because they're pretty to look at. They're there to use as a tool for scumhunting. I'm pretty certain Nabe has implied this enough and there is no reason to continue on the track we are going because all we have is a bunch of people going on and on and on about their un-substantiated reads and trust me, I'm part of that group too. All I can do is scum-read Kantrip. I can't vote him. I can't do anything. Do you understand the frustration I have with this? I am in no way in charge of whether Kantrip lives or dies. Right now, because he lost his match, this plays more in my favor. However, this goes against what I've been thinking, therefore I want more information about the matches. It would be foolish to state that it is just WIFOM because Nabe has implied that Mafia has much more of an advantage to win against a townie and he has also implied that we shouldn't be afraid to cheat. Okay, I'm gonna go over this one more time. My scum-read, Kantrip, got 3-0'd. Don't you think I should be a little ****ing concerned about this? I'm not stating anything other than concern. I'm only stating that I think something is a bit weird with the result. I feel like a broken ****ing record.

Kantrip, why do you think you lost? What is your read on Pawn based on the results? Do you believe he cheated? Why didn't you cheat? Should the Tourney Cop investigate your game? Is there any game that you think needs investigating?

Posts like this are why I continue to have faith in Soup's slot, even if his emotions get the better of him from time to time.

 

[Picture Perfect]

FINALLY ****ING DONE JEGUS

off to bed **** all of you

 

[Picture Perfect]

But one last thing before I go:

consider what soup said there. His frustrations aside, Soup's point that the matches hold a lot of information for us to evaluate and to help us scumhunt shouldn't be ignored. The fact that he's taking his Kantrip read into consideration based on the fact that he got 3-0'd says that he's both thinking logically as a townie should (I, for one, am definitely using the result to weigh in on my Kantrip read as well) as well as trying to find out as much information as possible. Even if he can't really dictate much about Pawn from it (other than that Pawn straight-up won and that he claims he didn't cheat), he can still try to press for as much information as possible about the match. I don't see how it's faulty of him to at least investigate.

 

[Picture Perfect]

Of course I won't. He even did so when I was questioning Soup. I'm not going to attribute it to anything (connections wise) because I don't know why he did it. But basically he told me to stop responding to soup when I was the one who instigated the conversation. Why in the world would I do that if I had concerns to talk about in the first place?

Also him just mudslinging you is just ew.

Because he's scum and he's trolling the lot of us for it. It's the only explanation for this play.

 

[Super Fabulous]

Uh, I just don't see how a match result can really bring a 180 as if it was a flip that makes you go "Huh... well I was wrong". Sure it's fine to talk more about matches but I just don't see how Kantrip getting 3-0'd would really bring such a realization. I think the point Kantrip brought up makes sense, couldn't he have done less than expected since so much fingers were pointing his way? Again, his original question made me feel that he expected Kantrip to be thinking Pawn cheated or was scum but not just a townie who was trying to win as well. He was also being very hard to deal with and that's just something i'm not liking from him.

I also don't see why you are always finding Soup's emotional outbursts to be that of a frustrated townie. I find it null because he would use it as scum. If it's something that can be very frustrating it can be understood, but for him to always say "This makes me furious" is not really.. genuine to me when I feel it's not something that really can make him furious. I KNOW he always uses AtE and especially as scum and I HATE IT.

 

[Picture Perfect]

You'd have a similar reaction on a cop clear, wouldn't you? And while this isn't confirmed in the slighest, it at least should give someone who's been reading Kantrip as scum the entire game pause because, like it or not, it is telling in one way or another. I also have weighed Kantrip's results in my reads as well. Yeh, it's possible Kantrip is pulling a fast one. I'm not ruling that out. I am, however, considering it in terms with his play. It's still information, and ignoring it or not going deeper in it seems wrong to me.

As for how I'm reading him, I'm just looking past the obnoxious bull**** and looking at what he's doing. You gotta peel back the layers on that one and ignore the stupid "i'm so mad at this game" posts. Stuff like what he posted above that I quoted is more of what I look at because it allows me to get into his mind. I definitely don't fault Soup for trying to investigate his scumread further with information that he didn't have before and I don't know why you, PJB, and Kantrip are.

 

[Kantrip]

I don't like how Kantrip is making a visible and vocal effort at keeping us at arm's length.

Explain this. I don't get what you mean.

 

[Kantrip]

Your entire reason was "they just left lopl"

Like, Shoco had it right in that you analyze everything on a surface level and never ask yourself "why is this happening?" It's hard to put something against you because I can't tell if you're doing this for malicious reasoning or if you're just not thinking that deeply. Some are jumping straight to calling you scum for faking reads but I dunno if that's true or not.

the soupvkantrip conundrum continues

I disagree with this by principle and think I have a tendency to think too deep into things. Surface level analysis isn't one of my problems, although this game I'll admit I have not been going in-depth like I do in other games.

 

[Kantrip]

I agree with your points on soup and think we're bickering like we have done before and that I should drop it. Still don't know what I missed answering though.

I want someone to answer my questions that may or may not condemn shoco

 

[Super Fabulous]

You'd have a similar reaction on a cop clear, wouldn't you? And while this isn't confirmed in the slighest, it at least should give someone who's been reading Kantrip as scum the entire game pause because, like it or not, it is telling in one way or another. I also have weighed Kantrip's results in my reads as well. Yeh, it's possible Kantrip is pulling a fast one. I'm not ruling that out. I am, however, considering it in terms with his play. It's still information, and ignoring it or not going deeper in it seems wrong to me.

As for how I'm reading him, I'm just looking past the obnoxious bull**** and looking at what he's doing. You gotta peel back the layers on that one and ignore the stupid "i'm so mad at this game" posts. Stuff like what he posted above that I quoted is more of what I look at because it allows me to get into his mind. I definitely don't fault Soup for trying to investigate his scumread further with information that he didn't have before and I don't know why you, PJB, and Kantrip are.

A cop clear, yes. A match, no. I still find it null. You'll have to explain why you would find it telling one way or another and how it should affect our reads.

No, I'm not going to look past it. If it feels fake to me I'll look at why he's saying 'i'm so mad at this game' when he doesn't seem to be, but rather just saying it. If you have experience with him (more than once) faking AtE as TOWN, then I'll consider trying to look past it because then he'd just do this regardless of alignment. >_> But for now, no. Not when I don't expect him to do this **** as town.

 

[Super Fabulous]

Also, when it comes to soup, I feel the really little things are what matter when reading him. He plays well as scum. Only way to find him as scum I feel is to rack up those little things and just see the whole picture. I mean come on, look at how he played BIM. He was acting weird there, and is why I always have to think "Is he a frustrated townie or trying to fake it to just debunk arguments made against him" etc. I don't think any part of his play should just be 'look past'.

 

[Kantrip]

Super Fab, what do you think the chances are for PP being scum with soup?

Also, tell me what you think of PP independently of soup.

 

[Super Fabulous]

;-;

I don't know. I try not to think about it, as it won't do me any good. I get the fleeting feeling PP may be trying to cover for Soup, but I also give them the benefit of the doubt because Soup always seems to be read as town especially when I find him suspicious. I'm like "plz don't fall for that". So I just leave it alone. And I won't think about it until I get a flip from Soup.

He's town.