Koopa VS Kefka -- The Endless Tournament ends! Who took home the prize?

[Super Fabulous]

PP's the reason I made the move to the room.

 

[Super Fabulous]

Would like your thoughts on both of those things too.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Remove: Picture Perfect

 

[Super Fabulous]

It's also really hard to see where everyone wants to go without a voting trail.

Vote: Nabe

 

[Kantrip]

I dislike PP more than soup right now, but I can't put my finger on why. Call it gut, I guess. Both heads are covering for each other creepily well. Insulting people who attack the other head, but never insulting for themselves. It's like a chainsaw defense but within their own slot. They are never disagreeing about anything, and it doesn't seem like they have all that much time for contacting each other. J made it sound like Washed was absent and J himself was on his phone so couldn't have much discussion with Washed. The two just always seem to have identical stances and cover each others backs in a way that seems disingenuous. They are playing a really strong town game at the surface level, but I don't like it.

 

[Kantrip]

Remove: Picture Perfect

This isn't even the right phase, bro. And we're not jumping the gun on our remove. But tell me where your head is at with that slot. Tell me what you think of the post I just made. Tell me something of subtance, Gheb, please.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

They are playing a really strong town game at the surface level

No they're not.

Insulting people who attack the other head, but never insulting for themselves. It's like a chainsaw defense but within their own slot.

You're very much spot on with that though.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

This isn't even the right phase, bro. And we're not jumping the gun on our remove. But tell me where your head is at with that slot. Tell me what you think of the post I just made. Tell me something of subtance, Gheb, please.

Really? I've spend most of the last few days explaining why the play has to be between PP and Shoco. I can dig out quotes but I'd prefer you to actually read tbh.

 

[Kantrip]

By surface level I mean they are advocating for pro-town things and asking a lot of questions. Not speaking of the quality of content itself. You got anything else? I'd love to hear it.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

By surface level I mean they are advocating for pro-town things and asking a lot of questions. Not speaking of the quality of content itself. You got anything else? I'd love to hear it.

OK I guess I'll agree with that. He's doing a lot of "hey get your ****ing act together guys!"-shouting but he's not doing **** except nudging people he disagrees with.

 

[Kantrip]

Do you think PP is covering for soup? Do you still think I'm scum? Like, your scumreads had no connections before. Are you seeing any connections now?

 

[Super Fabulous]

#557

This is PP's reads. If they were scum with Soup, I would think that would hamper my scum read on Gheb, and PJB. (Even though I like PJB a bit better now, I think I'll just declare PJB to be town lean now, and an IGMEOY on Pawn)

 

[Super Fabulous]

Do you think PP is covering for soup? Do you still think I'm scum? Like, your scumreads had no connections before. Are you seeing any connections now?

I think it's null, and don't think it's fair to make a connection without a flip. I still have you as null, but not scum. You answering my question (about what you think of this) would help me a bit.

 

[Kantrip]

Yeah I have trouble seeing Gheb as mates with any of my other scum suspects which makes me think I'm either way off base or Gheb is town after all. Occam's razor points to the latter.

 

[Super Fabulous]

Clarification: This is why I say IF when it comes to connections.

 

[Kantrip]

I think it's null, and don't think it's fair to make a connection without a flip. I still have you as null, but not scum. You answering my question (about what you think of this) would help me a bit.

Didn't I just answer it? I like soup more than I like PP. I think me and soup have been TvT bickering, but this is also an interesting angle. PP is scum independently of my soup read, and that connection is only a possibility that doesn't add anything to the validity of my read.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'll make an effort to summarize points on my main scumreads when I have more time.

Do you think PP is covering for soup? Do you still think I'm scum? Like, your scumreads had no connections before. Are you seeing any connections now?

I doubt PP is covering for soup in the sense that they are scummates. PPscum would lead me to believe that soup is town because it'd make sense for PPscum to keep souptown around. It's possible that PP is town and just so much off the track that he's wrong about soup. But ofc it's also possible - but based on how I read them unlikely - that both of them are town and right about each other. I think the first option is the most likely and the last the least likely one.

Out of my 4 scumreads you concern me the least right now but I think you'd work as a plausible scummate with all 3 of my other reads. There are a lot of connections between my scumreads that are plausible though, the only one I can't really see is PP / soup being scum together.

 

[Super Fabulous]

Yeah I have trouble seeing Gheb as mates with any of my other scum suspects which makes me think I'm either way off base or Gheb is town after all. Occam's razor points to the latter.

Is it because he hasn't been doing much? Easy to see someone who hasn't done much as someone without connections. (Because he hasn't made any )

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Where the **** is the idea coming from that I haven't been doing much?

 

[Kantrip]

Is it because he hasn't been doing much? Easy to see someone who hasn't done much as someone without connections. (Because he hasn't made any )

No, it's based on his stances on my other scumreads. This isn't a traditional game so he might be bussing every one of his mates, but his top 2 picks are my top 2 picks which tends to quell my suspicion in a standard game.

 

[Super Fabulous]

You'll have to go a little deeper than that to make it a valid point. I don't even remember all four of his top pics. I still find his early play to be a concern though.

 

[Kantrip]

His four picks iirc were PP shoco me and soup?

 

[Super Fabulous]

Oh ok.

oh what the hell. You gave an explanation on PP and I totally missed it. xD

 

[Kantrip]

It's cool. Can you see where I'm coming from? Isn't it a bit off that their stances are identical and they're covering for each other so much when they haven't been able to communicate much?

 

[Super Fabulous]

I dislike PP more than soup right now, but I can't put my finger on why. Call it gut, I guess. Both heads are covering for each other creepily well. Insulting people who attack the other head, but never insulting for themselves. It's like a chainsaw defense but within their own slot. They are never disagreeing about anything, and it doesn't seem like they have all that much time for contacting each other. J made it sound like Washed was absent and J himself was on his phone so couldn't have much discussion with Washed. The two just always seem to have identical stances and cover each others backs in a way that seems disingenuous. They are playing a really strong town game at the surface level, but I don't like it.

Eh, sometimes as a hydra you both sync up or disagree on things. It happens. I think you are just paranoid of them. They both can play well as scum but I don't find a reason to find them suspicious. Maybe it would be better if you pushed on Soup and then looked at them if he flipped scum. I just don't think the hydra thing is a valid tell.

 

[Super Fabulous]

Also now that I think of it, it feels like J just let Washed take the reigns of the hydra. Because keep in mind that their town read on me came from WL first. I think he's letting him do his thing?

I have to look at J's last few posts to see what they say.

In fact, J. Can you give me your reasoning for your read on us? Just want to know if you are on par with WL. You might have talked about us but I don't remember. :3

 

[Kantrip]

Why would I push soup though? Are you reading what I'm saying? PP bothers me more than soup, and that does not rely on any sort of connection. I see the validity of souptown just as much as soupscum if PP is scum. Seeing one of them flip won't help me read the other. What's more, we don't have lynches to just throw out and look at flips. We need to be certain the first time.

 

[Super Fabulous]

Super Fab, what do you think the chances are for PP being scum with soup?.

Because you asked me this, and Gheb if he thought PP was covering for Soup.

I thought you may have had a problem with him connection wise, which is why I asked you. But you only went into the read, not the connection you initially brought up.

 

[Kantrip]

I'm asking questions and I'm considering it. I don't buy into it and I'm certainly not using it as a basis for my reads. PP is off to me independent of soup, and no flip will make me look at either of them differently.

 

[Super Fabulous]

Alright, one more question. Why did you ask me that then, if the connections doesn't help you? That's all I'm wondering.

 

[Kantrip]

Alright, one more question. Why did you ask me that then, if the connections doesn't help you? That's all I'm wondering.

Because I wanted your opinion of the idea, since I don't like PP but you do, and you don't like soup, I was wondering if that would get you a different perspective on PP

 

[Super Fabulous]

Ah ok. The paranoia aside, I'm still solid with PP.

 

[Super Fabulous]

I also think it's important we all update our reads so we all know where we are going thought wise. I'll update mine later.

 

[Super Fabulous]

So Kantrip, what's your final verdict on Gheb? Town, or that you are wrong on some of your other reads? I want to know. I need to know.

 

[Kantrip]

Yeah I have trouble seeing Gheb as mates with any of my other scum suspects which makes me think I'm either way off base or Gheb is town after all. Occam's razor points to the latter.

I suspect he's town.

 

[Super Fabulous]

Ok, thank you. Let's say you got to pick the removal pick and cop pick. Who would they be? (I know your reads, but I want to know from which you pick to be copped/removed)

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I also think it's important we all update our reads so we all know where we are going thought wise. I'll update mine later.

PP / Shoco
Soup
Kantrip

In that order.

 

[Kantrip]

I wouldn't remove anyone with my current knowledge and information. Not confident enough in any of my reads. I can't say who I'd want copped because that would depend on factors like their opponent and stuff. If I were choosing from this phase's matches:

Koops VS Pixp
Ryker VS Soup
Pawn VS Pota
Fabio VS Ryu
Rake VS Gheb
Wots VS Choco

I would probably pick Koops VS Pixp because we've got a completely vanished slot and a scumread.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

You have all these numbers wrong. Reread the OP. The bracket is 8-man winners with 3 people starting in losers. No byes in winners. I asked the MOD in a PM and was told that any changes to the numbers (modkills, removal, etc) will come out of the loser's bracket and the winner's bracket will always be 8-man.

Really? We asked him in thread and he was evasive about giving that answer. When did you ask him this out of curiosity?

If that's true though then I'd have to redo some math since all the OP said was 8 man winners and 4 man losers to start.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Alright given what Kantrip said as true that would make the worst case scenario matches between Town and Scum 7 either with or without removal used. This makes our decision on removal hilariously easy.

We should use our removal no matter what, as not doing so gives us no mathematical advantage in bracket despite Nabe's caution in OP.


I'm sure most of you already assumed we were going to try to remove someone at some point anyways, but it's good to know this is the best possible move from what we know as well.