Knock Back jacketing *new discoveries* *new questions* .... few answers......

[saviorslegacy]

Knock Back Jack

So what exactly is the knock back jack? A: This- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVK_8vgXK6c
Almost a year has passed since I recorded that... and I have finally figured it out!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Basically, I jacketed Sheik. Well, in a way. You see, when you are attacked and sent flying up you become a hit box. Anyone who gets in your path is struck and cast aside.

1st vid- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmmk6TA6Uu0
This is the first vid. Thanks goes to Equalox for helping me test.

Here's the newest vid- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBuvGCc9FiA


*HOW TO PERFORM*
When you are struck by the foe and you get sent fly simply land and perform the chain jacket glitch.

 

[Kirbster13]

Pretty intense.

 

[demonictoonlink]

I...still don't really get it.
It doesn't really seem to keep people in for long.

 

[SuSa]

Requires.
Jacketing.
The.
Chain.

After.
You.
Get knocked pretty hard.

Without you using any other attacks.

Good luck with that.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Requires.
Jacketing.
The.
Chain.

After.
You.
Get knocked pretty hard.

Without you using any other attacks.

Good luck with that.

Actually you just need to tumble.
Chain Jacketing just takes tech skill.....

The hardest part is not performing other attacks.
Still, it is very lethal.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Doesn't Chain Jacket have a chance of crashing the game?

 

[Zankoku]

Only if you use it as the first instance of chain used in the game.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Isn't there something about three moves or whatever?

I removed the blasphemy part in the title. lol I would hate to start a flame war.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Only if you use it as the first instance of chain used in the game.

OK.

When I get home I'll take another look at the vids, but if it requires the jacket, it probably isn't broken.

 

[SuSa]

After 3 months of practicing the jacket and getting it 0 times.

I gave up on it being practical.

 

[saviorslegacy]

OK.

When I get home I'll take another look at the vids, but if it requires the jacket, it probably isn't broken.

That was a joke. That is why I removed it......
This is like Sheik's version of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkHXHj4xvmI

After 3 months of practicing the jacket and getting it 0 times.

I gave up on it being practical.

You fail at jacketing (like pretty much everyone). lol
It is hard to do, but I can do it meh consistently. I've used it in a match several times.
Judo can also Chain jack if I am not mistaken.

 

[choknater]

hahah, weird stuff

 

[SuSa]

You fail at jacketing (like pretty much everyone). lol
It is hard to do, but I can do it meh consistently. I've used it in a match several times.
Judo can also Chain jack if I am not mistaken.

Is it 100% confirmed to work in both PAL and NTSC?

Also any advice? I swear to god it can't be buffering because I get practically every combination of 1 frame inputs-for-error down no problem.

And from what I remember it's not buffered, just timed ever-so-perfectly. Which I then want to know why I couldn't manage to do it a single time.

I refuse to believe I fail at it.

 

[Zankoku]

believe it, da ze~

The timing for the input of chain jacket is a bit odd because it can be variable. The description is "chain is released on the same frame that Sheik lands," but there's no real timing specification because you can't really measure how many frames it'll be before you land at X position in the air. The reason for the glitch is because there is a variety of chain both for when Sheik is in the air and when she is on the ground, and her state is determined when the chain is released rather than when you start the attack.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Is it 100% confirmed to work in both PAL and NTSC?

Also any advice? I swear to god it can't be buffering because I get practically every combination of 1 frame inputs-for-error down no problem.

And from what I remember it's not buffered, just timed ever-so-perfectly. Which I then want to know why I couldn't manage to do it a single time.

I refuse to believe I fail at it.

Do it over and over and over again. Try and get the dust to come out of her arm pit.
YOu will slowly get better.

believe it, da ze~

The timing for the input of chain jacket is a bit odd because it can be variable. The description is "chain is released on the same frame that Sheik lands," but there's no real timing specification because you can't really measure how many frames it'll be before you land at X position in the air. The reason for the glitch is because there is a variety of chain both for when Sheik is in the air and when she is on the ground, and her state is determined when the chain is released rather than when you start the attack.

Not true.....
If you short hop it you will start to get a sense of muscle memory like with DACUS or wave shine.

 

[Zankoku]

DACUS and waveshine are far more forgiving. Chain jacket is more comparable to Samus' Super Wavedash, which involved hitting an input in a relatively late timing window.

 

[Judo777]

ok guys chain jacketing isn't THAT hard lol. Its tricky but no un reasonable given a proper amount of time. Chain jacket is simply using chain the frame between when it goes from being a sh chain back to grounded chain after a SH.

Susa gave the best point however. The only reasonable way of setting up chain jacket is generally if you knock ur opponent away and can set it up (which is typically isn't very powerful). However because this require YOU to be hit and sheik is a relatively easy character to juggle, ur opponent shouldnt be giving you time to set this up because they will probably be chasing you after you get hit. Doesn't honestly seem that useful but its neat.

Also i have actually chain jacketed a good number of times in tournament but again only if my opponent gives me some time.

Oh and i have done a decent amount of testing and ankoku is right its ONLY if its the first chain of the match. No 3 move garbage.

 

[Luxor]

Where are all the Japanese players jacketing everything?

I think Sheik could have some potential with jacketing, both this and Vanish are pretty sweet when jacked.

 

[Judo777]

Where are all the Japanese players jacketing everything?

I think Sheik could have some potential with jacketing, both this and Vanish are pretty sweet when jacked.

no man im telling you chain jacket isn't good thats why people don't use it. SH chain is better than every other chain. Wind jacket is actually pretty bad. It is extrordinarily weak and punishable.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Wind Jacket is useful against people who have slow recoveries with no hit box range.
ie Ganondorf, maybe Lucario and possibly Wario. You usually have better options though.
That doesn't mean it isn't cool. I guess you could use it if you wanted to show off and if you were good enough at twitching the c-stick. I would sooner go with SH Chain. As Judo said, it is the best Chain.

I mainly see this as useful if we can learn how to be Gods at Chain jacketing and learn the timing from a normal fall. That way if we get hit away and the foe rushes in at us we can bring the chain out and use the possible extended electric hit box (more testing needs to be done so don't quote me) and its translucent priority to knock them into you.
My only question is do they go through you when you reach the ledge.

So yeah, this is what I like to call a soft tech.


Hard Tech= DACUS, Wave Shine, IC's de-sync, Dedede buffered CG, SHDL, item slide ect. ect.
Something that you can heavily rely on and that can possibly break a character.

Soft Tech= IC's fusing, Melee Samus super wavedash, Melee Ness yo-yo glitch, Dragonic reverse ect. ect.
Something that the character can't rely on to help win their matches, but something that is very cool and can possibly destroy the opponent.


I have a final tomorrow so I will not be testing until at least Thursday night.
You all have finals to so I hope you understand. -_-

 

[Judo777]

Wind Jacket is useful against people who have slow recoveries with no hit box range.
ie Ganondorf, maybe Lucario and possibly Wario. You usually have better options though.
That doesn't mean it isn't cool. I guess you could use it if you wanted to show off and if you were good enough at twitching the c-stick. I would sooner go with SH Chain. As Judo said, it is the best Chain.

I mainly see this as useful if we can learn how to be Gods at Chain jacketing and learn the timing from a normal fall. That way if we get hit away and the foe rushes in at us we can bring the chain out and use the possible extended electric hit box (more testing needs to be done so don't quote me) and its translucent priority to knock them into you.
My only question is do they go through you when you reach the ledge.

So yeah, this is what I like to call a soft tech.


Hard Tech= DACUS, Wave Shine, IC's de-sync, Dedede buffered CG, SHDL, item slide ect. ect.
Something that you can heavily rely on and that can possibly break a character.

Soft Tech= IC's fusing, Melee Samus super wavedash, Melee Ness yo-yo glitch, Dragonic reverse ect. ect.
Something that the character can't rely on to help win their matches, but something that is very cool and can possibly destroy the opponent.


I have a final tomorrow so I will not be testing until at least Thursday night.
You all have finals to so I hope you understand. -_-

I would say Dragonic Reverse is very reliable lol. My buddy uses it a whole lot. Also once you chain jacket, chain loses its transcendent priority thats why its not as good. It becomes a stationary move that can be clanked or beaten flat out.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I would say Dragonic Reverse is very reliable lol. My buddy uses it a whole lot. Also once you chain jacket, chain loses its transcendent priority thats why its not as good. It becomes a stationary move that can be clanked or beaten flat out.

Well, DR in 09 wasn't very reliable. I haven't fought a Yoshi main or talked to one since then.
Nic@lobe kinda ditched Portsmouth.

I haven't tested it more yet but yesterday this was kept its translucent priority, or at least it looked like it kept it. We f-tilt'd it and shot Samus's projectiles into it. Yeah, it doesn't clank with Power Beam. I guess that's a good thing though.

 

[Zankoku]

The easiest test is Meta Knight's Drill Rush.

 

[-Mars-]

I met Equalox irl.....true story.

 

[Judo777]

The easiest test is Meta Knight's Drill Rush.

or tornado cause you can just hover over the chain.

If you want to really test how appilcaple it is shoot a samus missle at it. If you cant stop it its transcendent if you can its clanking it.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I just tested it to see if it is translucent.... um... it is.
I was hitting MK out of his Nado. Once more, I locked a CPU Bowser to 200% with the new lock.
Also, I got a really weird jack that I can once again not explain. It seems that you can jack a very powerful hit box. It killed Bowser at 120 and it was in front of Sheik. I Jack locked him (I think I like that name more... come on guys.. what should we call this?) and then messed up so he went in front of me and then got killed. It was also pretty far in front of Sheik... out of the reach of the normal Chain.
If we could figure this all out we might have a 0 - death on pretty much everyone and using a jack that is translucent so they can't attack it to make her stop jacking.


After tonight I'll start some in depth research on this and make a video worthy of showing it... not a stupid one with a glitched clip. -_-

 

[Tewx2]

It's a 0-death with a near impossible set-up.

That only works if you get an amazing read.


Not to be a negative nancy, but this is useless.

 

[saviorslegacy]

TewTew... if this has an extended hit box in the front then that means we can camp with it. Since it is bigger and easier to get out it is safer. Our weak spot is behind us. That right there is the set up.

Sheik might get a regular Alimo. lol
More testing needs to be done before we can cast it aside or say it is useful. We just don't know and finals are bogging everyone down. Luckily I'll be pretty much done after tonight.

 

[Judo777]

did you test what i asked? the samus missle? Just cause you can MK out of nado doesn't mean its transcendent.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I tested at lunch controlling MK with my toes. I'll have to test Samus later.

:EDIT:
I just done the Samus test and it is translucent. I done it 3 times in a row and the missiles went straight through the Chain.

 

[Tewx2]

Once again it's a near impossible setup, you can't attack after getting sent into tumble animation. So you'll have to recover without using a recovery move, then you have to chain jacket. Which requires time and space. Which you usually get by knocking your opponent off stage, which you can't do because you can't attack. Unless you're playing a blind squirrel this situation isn't going to come about.

Cool discovery, and I really do applaud your innovative thinking, however this is impractical.

And also it's useless on most of the cast anyway since very few characters don't have projectiles.

 

[Judo777]

I tested at lunch controlling MK with my toes. I'll have to test Samus later.

:EDIT:
I just done the Samus test and it is translucent. I done it 3 times in a row and the missiles went straight through the Chain.

no ofc the chain is transcendent. The chain is always. Its just that the new hitboxes produced aren't are you launching it at the hitbox?

 

[saviorslegacy]

I have now been testing for like 3 hours and HOLY ****! I find like 8 new things.
Yes, this is 100% translucent, without a doubt. I have tried it against Mario, MK, Bowser and Samus all attacking the chain and never did it clank. Also, the extended hit boxes do not clank either.

This is a very weird jack since it also screws the chain up. At one point the chain lost all of its hit boxes and no longer done damage. However, there were hit boxes all around Sheik that we SH chain hit boxes. Even more, it would some times do damage without inputting anything and one of the hit boxes wen about 2/3 of FD and struck the foe.
I didn't get that part recorded. After that I started recording everything else.
Let me prey through several hours of footage and make a video showing you guys some of the stuff.

 

[-Mars-]

why do u keep saying translucent???

 

[saviorslegacy]

Old habit... dunno how it started.
Why the heck is it called transcendent though? I mean, a transcendent being is a demon or an angel.

 

[thexsunrosered]

transcend, like goes above the normal perception of a hitbox i.e. pwnwitmeta sword & pwnwitmarf sword


Though I feel like this will be useless, I support you looking in to it saviors. I kinda wanna see this video o.o I wish you had got the 2/3 fd one recorded though

 

[saviorslegacy]

Video took me forever!!!!!!!!!!!
It just finished uploading: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBuvGCc9FiA

 

[Judo777]

neat cool find. Also if thats how you tested its transcendent priority then i still dont buy it. Ofc the chain part of the hitbox is trancendent. You have to test the priority of the new hitboxes. Those are the ones that can be clanked. I must say tho that doesnt look like a true lock. If characters have time to finish ordinary landing animation they should be able to shield.

Its still really neat although i dont see it happening much.

 

[saviorslegacy]

#1 That's not the only thing I done to test the chain for clanking. That's just the one that got recorded
#2 It can be a true lock. I was ****ing around while testing yesterday. I am just trying to give examples right now since this thing is still being tested. When testing is completely finished I will make an official video.
#3 Give it time before you judge. I am starting to think that you can control which hit box you get by DI. The more you DI out the stronger and more range it gets. If we can get a jack with a lot of range with strong hit boxes who gives a crap if it has a set up!? We just got a camping gift from Jesus himself.
#4 You can control these hit boxes. I am starting to figure out where they are normally placed. Even in the different variants they are in the same places usually. The one exception is where I locked Bowser in front of me. I can't explain that at all!
#5 new option: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaDLPMPdaY4

 

[Wavebuster]

This is more or less a simple extension of the Chain Jacket glitch itself. In this case, the hitboxes you are jacketing are the "dead weight" hitboxes that everyone makes to varying effect when they get sent flying at a certain minimum speed. These hitboxes are attached inside their body, and you can jacket this. As for why you'd actually want to try this is anyone's guess, as getting any chain jacket to work at the precise moment you want it to is absurd to begin with.

Provided you do not attack, then there shouldn't be a reason for this hitbox to not be jacketed properly through a short hop even after landing from the launch that generated it.