Social Kirby & The Amazing Cats

[Vinylic.]

You can angle forward tilts and smash attacks. Up, Down, and Center.

All three angles lead to 3 different kinds of knockback.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Its worth noting that down tilt has a thirty percent trip chance. thirty five percent it the tip of the foot. and doing a pivot f smash makes it more consistent as well

 

[Vinylic.]

How does wave cutter work against villager's campy set? I've been wondering about it for a good while now.

Good stuff on G2, @ MikeKirby . That was still horrible to experience, but I'm glad you pushed through til' the end.

I think I would've walked away just like bloodcross would on that set. That pop-off just got my blood boiling bad.

 

[kirbyfan66]

How does wave cutter work against villager's campy set? I've been wondering about it for a good while now.

Good stuff on G2, @ MikeKirby . That was still horrible to experience, but I'm glad you pushed through til' the end.

I think I would've walked away just like bloodcross would on that set. That pop-off just got my blood boiling bad.

Wave Cutter? It doesn't work. Villager can Pocket it. If said Villager does, it comes out immediately and K.O.s Kirby before 80% on most stages. It works fantastically for Doubles, though.

You know what's great against campy Villager, though? Giant Hammer. It's so fun to pull it out in that matchup, especially with the life lead.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Mike lost to that same villager today

 

[MikeKirby]

I'm gonna probably run Giant Hammer next time. It's at the cost of Meteor Stone, though... But regular Stone still works, won't one shot him but it still safely punishes a second ledge grab.

He learned his lesson not to plank vs Kirby. Instead he just camped at the edge of the stage behind the sapling and his lloid; I couldn't approach. I feel Giant Hammer could remedy this but it's gonna be pretty risky.

Hopefully, after EVO, we can get another chance to switch up our custom sets or be allowed to import out own. With the way the metagame is growing 3333 seems like it'd be the best set vs Villager.

@ kirbyfan66 I was thinking about Wave Cutter but thanks for clarifying. You're our Wave Cutter guru! m(_ _)m

 

[Asdioh]

Ugh it's so frustrating. They need to patch it so we can change custom moves on the fly. That's as dumb as Splatoon not having the ability to easily play with friends on release, to be released in a future patch (???)
Also, I'm sure they'll nerf Villager's customs... eventually. Although when it was first hyped up, people said "it's easy to beat because the ledge doesn't have invincibility" I really don't see it. It's a massive risk to challenge Villager at the ledge, and some characters it's impossible. They need to make the sapling not trip, and make the exploding balloons not go through the stage, at the very least.

I didn't see your matches vs the villager, he's the one that sent you to losers? I just saw you vs the Rosalina (nice use of ice breath!) and then vs Vinnie... I think you could've beaten him, you just had to be a little more patient
And I saw winner's finals a bit but it was awful, but apparently Vinnie learned to take piercing needles and won grand finals? Interesting.

 

[Vinylic.]

So why not keep him away from the sapling? Every time he get gets pulled out of his zone he just keeps coming back to it.

Also, I just got featured in ZeRo's Jigglypuff guide. He put me, serynder, and hungrybox as one of the best jigglypuff players out there, and now I have to put more work into it.

 

[kirbyfan66]

@ kirbyfan66 I was thinking about Wave Cutter but thanks for clarifying. You're our Wave Cutter guru! m(_ _)m

I love that this is my reputation here. Genuinely, I do.

But yeah, if we can see some replays that'd be great! Particularly with Ice Breath. That move is very underused and I wanna see more of it.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

So why not keep him away from the sapling? Every time he get gets pulled out of his zone he just keeps coming back to it.

Also, I just got featured in ZeRo's Jigglypuff guide. He put me, serynder, and hungrybox as one of the best jigglypuff players out there, and now I have to put more work into it.
View attachment 51281

Nice! Must feel great to be featured in one of ZeRo's vids as one of the best. :D

 

[Bribery]

I hope they do nerf Villager's customs in the next balance patch. IMO Trip Sappling should disappear after someone trips on it like Diddy's Banana, or automatically grow into the tree when someone trips on it. Exploding Balloons should have significantly less distance. Supposedly it has less distance than the default but it doesn't look that much different to me. It was really frustrating seeing Villager get stage spiked numerous times and still make it back safely.

It's too bad we don't have 3333 for EVO. 3331 could work but regular Stone isn't as dangerous for Villager. Just the presence of Meteor Stone was enough to keep him off the ledge. If he realizes you don't have it, he could just go back to stalling on the ledge. But then again, if he does start doing that, it becomes easier to charge Giant Hammer since he's not in your face the whole time.

 

[Kleric]

Good afternoon Kirbys!
I had finally decided to actually use another character other than Toon Link, and after awhile of thinking I thought Kirby was deserving of more love.
I'll be here to talk, learn what I can, and possibly contribute if I ever get to that point!

 

[da K.I.D.]

It's a massive risk to challenge Villager at the ledge, and some characters it's impossible. They need to make the sapling not trip, and make the exploding balloons not go through the stage, at the very least.

this is the kind of rhing that aggrivates me.

When mike beat capt the first time they played he didnt complain about how kirbys stone needs to get nerfed or it hits too hard or anything like that. He was madd that he didnt know about it ahead of time, but he didnt go blaming the game and asking for a patch. He went back to the lab, came up with a counter strategy, practiced,and implemented it properly the next time they played. And he won because of it.

Why wouldnt you follow his same example and adapt to the game instead of just throwing up your hands and saying "this is stupid, ban/patch it"? dont get mad at the guy who puts in work to figure out a style that works for him and wins with it. Get on his level and stop being babies

 

[Grass]

this is the kind of rhing that aggrivates me.

When mike beat capt the first time they played he didnt complain about how kirbys stone needs to get nerfed or it hits too hard or anything like that. He was madd that he didnt know about it ahead of time, but he didnt go blaming the game and asking for a patch. He went back to the lab, came up with a counter strategy, practiced,and implemented it properly the next time they played. And he won because of it.

Why wouldnt you follow his same example and adapt to the game instead of just throwing up your hands and saying "this is stupid, ban/patch it"? dont get mad at the guy who puts in work to figure out a style that works for him and wins with it. Get on his level and stop being babies

I completely agree.

I really don't understand, why people can't just learn to adapt instead of relying on patches. This was the same thing with Diddy Kong. The same thing with MetaKnight (Brawl). And the same damn thing with every other top tier character we've encountered so far. The game is completely broken, there are always ways around it.

 

[Unknownkid]

snip

I feel you, man. That sucks. He learned what to do and develop a strategy against it. He got on the ledge and jump off to reset the ledge camp (which was smart). Meteor Stone isn't safe offstage... so I can understand why you didn't use it raw. I didn't like that he pop off when he won. He knows what he is doing and knows it is unhealthy for the community. That's pretty disturbing if you ask me.

I think 3331 is a better set against Smart Campy Villager than 3333. Yes, I know Meteor Stone is "perfect" for this. However, to due to MikeKirby cautiousness, CaptA trickery and Meteor Stone unsafeness - Kirby lost this one especially against someone who master this strats.

With Regular Stone, you are safe offstage whether or not you miss the balloons. It is better to do some damage and take the lead than no damage - lose by SD or time out.

Now, while I believe I am the "guru for Giant Hammer", I can see where this can fail. Villager can still go to the opposite side of the map especially with the starter stages. Giant Hammer inflict damage on itself faster than Hammer Flip. 100%+ is asking to be back thrown. While CaptA likes to pop off, be cheap, get salty, and john - he is a smart player and a good villager. I wouldn't be surprise if he is here reading this now. Anyways, here what you need to do.

You need to take the first stock then first game assuming it is 2 of 3. Either show off Giant Hammer in the first match or save it for later. The element of surprise is important here.The builds I will use are 3131, 3331, 1131 or 3133. Yes, I think Hammer Flip is going to be important in the matchup or any combination of Meteor Stone, Regular Stone, Giant Hammer, and Hammer Flip with Upper Cutter will be ideal. Here how it works -

-Meteor Stone is already known. You don't need to jump or be offstage to use it too. Just stay on the edge and spam Stone. Kills villager at ~15-20%.
-Not only can you racking up damage with Regular Stone while being invincible, it can kill and it is completely safe offstage.
Kills Villagers at 100%
-Giant Hammer is already known. Tank and hit. Good Luck! kills villager at 20%
-Hammer Flip. I will switch to Hammer Flip in the second match if you win the first one with Giant Hammer. The same tactic doesn't work twice guys as Asdioh has told us. Use the lack of a super armor to your advantage on stage and the super armor offstage *wink* *wink*. Kills Villager at 60% near the safe
-Upper Cutter is to get back to stage safe and it can also stage spike.

snip.

Thankfully Ninja Link was kind of enough to do a counter video for everyone or those who can and those who will struggle.
http://www.twitch.tv/ninjalink/b/658298958
Though this can be good and bad. Now, Stall Villagers know what can work against them and develop strategy against them.

I believe that is lame that we can't make a team or make customize matches in Splatoon at launch. Come on Nintendo... get it together.

dont get mad at the guy who puts in work to figure out a style that works for him and wins with it. Get on his level and stop being babies

Actually, he is just abusing a concept. He switched to Custom DK vs Snakee last week when Custom Villager wasn't working against Rosalina. I will not be surprise if he switch to Custom Sonic or Custom Pikachu next. I think he trying to kill customs. He doing a good job.

 

[Bribery]

There's nothing wrong with suggesting that certain moves be balanced or banned on the grounds that they are unhealthy for the metagame. Yes, there are extremely precise strategies that can beat them but these moves have shown that they are easily abusable. CaptAwesome showed how both can easily be abused. Even members of the Official Custom Move Project think it isn't unreasonable for Kong Cyclone and Trip Sappling/Exploding Balloon Trip to be banned.

 

[kirbyfan66]

I see what your point is about the customs, but using the phrase "stop being babies about it" makes you look bad. I'm not going to mince words here, it makes you look like you think you're better than the rest of us and posts of that tone are often disregarded.

With that said, it is rough. Kirby is pretty good offstage but he has trouble with Lloyd. Does being under Villager help at all? Dair is dangerous but if you can get an Up Air or Upper Cutter, then you get good positioning. I don't go up against very many great Villagers (good Villagers but not great ones) so I wouldn't be sure.

 

[MikeKirby]

Do you think it's possible to spike Villager on first ledge grab with Meteor Stone? The balloons prolong the hitbox and theoretically could hit Villager upon his 1 frame invulnerable ledge snap. I think I did it once but would it be consistent? .-.

Also, theory but, Giant Hammer, on Battlefield, get the stock lead and jump on the second platform near the edge with your back turned away from the blastzone, charge hammer and just sit there and DON'T flinch for ANYTHING unless you see him land in front of you. With the super armor you'll tank every hit and won't ever lose a stock unless he decides to try to land and grab you with his slow grab. If he never decides to do that and just hit your for damage, would it be considered stalling at that point?

Planking Villager isn't a problem, not for Kirby anyways, it's the wall that you have to get, through.

Also, @ Asdioh , I feel like I did drop the ball against Vinnie. However, I'm happy the way things turned out. I can't imagine how frustrating it was for him to go through that for 2 sets straight but I'm glad he took the win. I did tell him I was unhappy he lost to him in winners, though!!

 

[Vinylic.]

Is ledge trumping not effective anymore? Trying to hit players on the first ledge grab is a no-no most of the time, but I never thought about balloons causing hitlag.

 

[RedNova]

Do you think it's possible to spike Villager on first ledge grab with Meteor Stone? The balloons prolong the hitbox and theoretically could hit Villager upon his 1 frame invulnerable ledge snap. I think I did it once but would it be consistent? .-.

It is possible, but the only time I did it was by pure luck. Just turning to the stone when on the ground also works, because Kirby does a little hop, but actually timing it right is pretty hard.

 

[Project SonicSpeed]

So apparently we've been DI'ing wrong this entire time when we thought we weren't. THE CAKE IS A LIE!!! NOTHING IS SAFE TO TRUST ANYMORE!!! Except this guy.

 

[kirbyfan66]

Is ledge trumping not effective anymore? Trying to hit players on the first ledge grab is a no-no most of the time, but I never thought about balloons causing hitlag.

It isn't something that can be abused a lot, but it's effective in the matchup. It's probably the most effective way to lead into Meteor Stone, plus if you're quick enough you'll beat out the balloons. And obviously, Stone goes through the balloons.

 

[Unknownkid]

Do you think it's possible to spike Villager on first ledge grab with Meteor Stone? The balloons prolong the hitbox and theoretically could hit Villager upon his 1 frame invulnerable ledge snap. I think I did it once but would it be consistent? .-.

Also, theory but, Giant Hammer, on Battlefield, get the stock lead and jump on the second platform near the edge with your back turned away from the blastzone, charge hammer and just sit there and DON'T flinch for ANYTHING unless you see him land in front of you. With the super armor you'll tank every hit and won't ever lose a stock unless he decides to try to land and grab you with his slow grab. If he never decides to do that and just hit your for damage, would it be considered stalling at that point?

Planking Villager isn't a problem, not for Kirby anyways, it's the wall that you have to get, through.

Also, @ Asdioh , I feel like I did drop the ball against Vinnie. However, I'm happy the way things turned out. I can't imagine how frustrating it was for him to go through that for 2 sets straight but I'm glad he took the win. I did tell him I was unhappy he lost to him in winners, though!!

It does but like Hyper_Nova said timing is a bit difficult but you are invincible and you did it before (that was cool btw!). You can also perform this faster with Grounded Stone.
Technically, you are stalling once you reach 300% but your idea will work haha.

Is ledge trumping not effective anymore? Trying to hit players on the first ledge grab is a no-no most of the time, but I never thought about balloons causing hitlag.

Yeah the balloon prolong hitlag. In the Ninja Link Counter Video, ZSS can shoot the balloons still stun villager. It was the silliest thing we all have seen.

 

[Asdioh]

Thankfully Ninja Link was kind of enough to do a counter video for everyone or those who can and those who will struggle.
http://www.twitch.tv/ninjalink/b/658298958
Though this can be good and bad. Now, Stall Villagers know what can work against them and develop strategy against them.

This is 7 hours long, but I watched a bit. Does he do anything besides balloon spam? Skipping around, I see Villager intentionally regrabbing the ledge for the non-invincible grab. Every character obviously has moves that beat or trade with a balloon spamming Villager, but that's not really the issue. When you combine the damage from these moves:

Balloon damage: 9% (sweetspot) or 6% (sourspot) per balloon
Nair damage: 9% (clean), 5% (late)
Fair damage: 7% (clean), 4% (mid), 2.5% (late)
Pushy Lloid: 1.5% per hit, 6% (ending explosion), 5% (explosion after hitting a wall)

It can rack up a lot of damage as you're trying to get to him, and the risk/reward is skewed heavily in Villager's favor. If Villager has any sort of lead on you, and then uses this strategy so you're forced to approach, you have to go through these. If you have to go through a tripping sapling (which lasts for 20 seconds, which is an eternity in matches like this) your angle of approach is forced to be predictable. RNG balloons going through the stage, which you often can't see, and will pop either if you hit them, or if he uses UpB again. Pushy Lloids, which I believe there is no way to destroy(?) so you have to either jump over them, roll through them, or shield the entire thing. Plus slingshots. And if you do happen to get offstage against him, he has a frame 3 Nair, or can do a ledgeroll, worst case scenario through a sapling, making it impossible for you to quickly follow, and then repeat this process on the other side of the stage.

Does he set up a proper "Villager wall" at any point in that video, or is it just testing what moves characters can use against balloon spam? I watched a part where Fox's Downsmash was trading with Villager Balloons, and yes, in that case, the math is definitely in Fox's favor. But how much damage would even the most patient players incur while trying to break through the defensive play of a properly played Villager? What Villager would be dumb enough to keep regrabbing the ledge without projectiles covering him, or at least varied regrab timing? How much risk for how much reward? If they get knocked offstage, are they more likely to die than if Villager gets knocked offstage (to this the answer is usually yes, since Villager has one of the best recoveries in the game, even with the "inferior" recovery of exploding balloons.)


I could go on about this, but if this video somehow proves that ledge stalling with these customs is rarely in Villager's favor, then that's cool. But thinking about it, and reading through the comments here https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/35ogq5/ninjalink_showing_how_to_deal_with_custom/ people are coming to the same conclusions I just did on my own.


The TL;DR of it is that I believe these are the problems:

1. Tripping Sapling has the least amount of counterplay of any move in Smash 4. Maybe it's not as bad as something like Brawl MK Tornado, but I'm talking about this game specifically. Feel free to prove me wrong, but most "strong" moves have meaningful counterplay. The "counterplay" to Sapling involves avoiding it entirely, which cripples your movement options to an extreme, and makes you target practice for Villager. This move is most comparable to "C4" type moves, all of which have clear weaknesses. Brawl Snake, for example, had Downsmash and Down B. Downsmash could be beaten by a projectile, hitting it with a long range move, or simply shielding it. Down B required Snake to actually press a button to get it to work. Duck Hunt's Can/Gunmen can be shielded or attacked. Sapling might have counterplay if it had a cooldown like Palutena's customs do, but it doesn't. He can instantly replant it, and the planting comes out very quickly so you can't even prevent it by hitting him.

2. Explody Balloons go through the stage, with random trajectories. What other projectiles in this game go through stages? I can't think of any, unless you count something like Ike's UpB, which always goes in the same pattern, and Ike can't abuse ledge regrabs like Villager can, because he gets gimped insanely easily.

There's also the fact that Villager's recovery is still crazy good, and he has precise control over when the balloons explode, but that's not as bad as the two listed problems.

this is the kind of rhing that aggrivates me.

When mike beat capt the first time they played he didnt complain about how kirbys stone needs to get nerfed or it hits too hard or anything like that. He was madd that he didnt know about it ahead of time, but he didnt go blaming the game and asking for a patch. He went back to the lab, came up with a counter strategy, practiced,and implemented it properly the next time they played. And he won because of it.

Why wouldnt you follow his same example and adapt to the game instead of just throwing up your hands and saying "this is stupid, ban/patch it"? dont get mad at the guy who puts in work to figure out a style that works for him and wins with it. Get on his level and stop being babies

Sure you can work around it for now, but it's degenerate and I can guarantee that it will be patched if Nintendo's aware of it. I've been right about the patches thus far, at least!
Like, nobody can deny that Diddy Kong's Upair was broken, pre-patch. Could we work around it until it got patched? Yeah. Was it still stupid? Yeah. I think Customs Villager (and only Villager, I haven't seen anything as bad as this so far, even stuff like Kong Cyclone has more notable downsides) is a similar problem, but it's one that's more likely to result in timeouts, rather than end stocks quickly like Diddy Upair.



this post is really long and I'm rambling a lot, and I always start getting super precise and editing posts heavily and second-guessing myself when I type this much, so really quick:

-I think Vinnie is really good, and he lost in Winner's Finals to fun things like timeouts. I didn't see Grands, but apparently he switched customs and won! That's cool, but he happens to be a really good player, playing one of the best characters, which happens to have customs that beat Balloons/Lloid, and good enough mobility options to get around tripping saplings somewhat well. I still wouldn't be surprised if the majority of characters don't have real answers to customs Villager, and it will be a somewhat similar situation to chaingrabs in Brawl invalidating certain characters in certain matchups.

-C.Awesum goes to my locals, but I haven't played him yet. But counting him, there are at least like 4 Villager players with customs, compared to the 1 we had before customs. Last time I went, I did a bunch of money matches with that 1 Villager. I used to beat him consistently! But in the MMs, I barely managed to squeak out a majority of wins, when we kept doing a ton of runbacks. The outcomes of the matches literally felt like luck. Ignoring the rare Meteor Stone KOs I got, which he stopped getting hit by once he learned, it just felt like if I happened to knock him offstage, and build up damage, and eventually get a KO, I could win! If not, I would probably lose! I don't really know how else to describe it, it felt like the winners of the various matches came down to pretty much luck, and I never get that feeling from matches.

-There's also the problem we were talking about before, where certain custom sets would be ideal against this Villager set, but if it's not part of the "custom moveset project," you're screwed!

Overall it's just DUMB. I'm not going to just sit and wait for nerfs (they'll come someday I promise) but I'm pretty confident that this strategy is just bad for the game's health. I wouldn't be surprised if people like C.Awesum are doing this to get people to ban customs, or Nintendo to notice and patch (also the fact that he's winning money at tournaments is nice too) but I guess he should keep at it, even though we'll all hate playing/watching it in the meantime.

Also I'm going to Japan for 2 weeks soon, so the Lucas patch will be that much closer when I get back!

 

[Vinylic.]

How the hell did you get authority to go to japan? I don't believe this!

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Oh, in case anybody is wondering why I've been absent, a lot of personal things have been troubling me recently. I'd rather not go into any of it now (or ever), but I'm sorry for not being here as often. That's... really all for now.

okbye

If anybody is confused on the avatar/main changes, it's just a joke.

 

[Unknownkid]

snip

I completely understand and for the most right agree with you and everyone else. Sadly, I cannot answer all these questions. I didn't do the video nor assist with it. I just know that Ninja Link test it against every character. Here is a few question I can answer... he did against only Balloon Spam because he believe that is the main problem. Pushy LLoid can be avoided, Fair/Bair is small push, and Sapling requires getting to the other side of it. Of course, Custom Villager problem is the whole package not just the Extreme Balloons Trip. Sadly, that is the best I can do to cover his experiment. Obviously, it is flawed and I wish he did it against actual Villager player. John Numbers know what to do but someone like CaptA, Zee, or a Villager main will be professional. Not this sloppy mess but whatever. I know he mean well.

Also, thank you for the "rant" or rambling. It help develop discussion and let me argument for Ninja Link. Btw, has any of the Villager player won or dominated your scene?

Oh, in case anybody is wondering why I've been absent, a lot of personal things have been troubling me recently. I'd rather not go into any of it now (or ever), but I'm sorry for not being here as often. That's... really all for now.

okbye

If anybody is confused on the avatar/main changes, it's just a joke.

I figure as much. I hope you return strong and well sir!

 

[Asdioh]

Well the villagers I mentioned are doing better, and awesum I think always gets top 3. A zss has been consistently winning though. I forgot to mention I think kirby is one of the better equipped characters for dealing with this, and even he struggles.

 

[da K.I.D.]

In terms of getting the villager off the ledge, you guys are relying too much on custom specials, its just as easy to ppunish ledge regrabs with charged down smashes and like mike was doing before, going offstage under the village and bairingnhim or hittingnhim with upper cutter. Charged down smash does like 20 percent and kills at 80. Worth the trade for the balloons every single time. Might also be able to do down tilted f smash too, and it you get that charged itll kill even earlier.

Also an important note, if you stand right at the ledge, the balloosons will never ever hurt you, they will always fly away to the sides of the ledge and you wont have to worry about them.

Thats all that really matters, if you can beat the ledge campy stuff then that means putting yourself offstage and camping the ledge is not a gamebreaking strategy with villager. If thats not gamebreaking then what he does after that i dont care. If kirby loses to onstage village because he cant get in on him, then thats just a bad matchup, thats not bannable. Why are we talking about banning things and bad for the metagame whenat that point its just a campy character with a really sturdy tent?

Are we really at the point where were gonna say that an intentionally defensive character with solid defensive tools that DOESNT EVEN WIN TOURNAMENTS is broken and needs nerfs? I dont care if there 4 times or even 40 times as many villagers as there was before. If its not good enough to win, its not good enough to get limited, banned, or nerfed. Diddy nerfs were fine because diddy players actuallh were winning everything. But this? This is just people playing lame. People have lame playstyles in every fighting game, get used to it.

Put in more than a day or 2 of learning the matchup and character before you write something off like that.ive already beaten 3 villagers that tried to do this to me in tournament. The first time it was really hard and i wasnt sure of what to do. But after practicing it for a few weeks, and doing some actual research. The villager i played last week, the entire set took 5 minutes total, including stage bans and counterpicks.

Asdioh. They cant run to the other ledge and do it again as effectively, sapling can only cover one ledge at a time
lloid rocket to cover himself is VERY vulnerable, has a stupid long start up Time, lliterally anyone in the game can punish it if theyre looking for it. You can definitely destroy it with attacks too.
You cant stop him from planting the sapling, but you can punish himfor it, and you can punish in a way that throws the villager away from the sapling which makes it useless.

Degenerate, what does that word even mean in this context? Because if degenerate means forcing people to apprach you poorly when you have e the lead then every character in the game is degenerate. Its not going to force anybody to switch characters to deal with it because every character has viable options against it. Degenerate is not and should not be a catch all term for things you ggenerally dislike. Which is how it seems like youre using it here.

I play sheik and vinnie wasnt fully abusingnhis options either. You can vanish and beat ledge camping and kill village at 100 with moderate rage, vinnie didnt do that once. Nor did he ever once try for a bair stage spike. Which more people should be doing because exploding balloons have very little vertical distance. If you pu him in a situation where he has to pop himself up that way, you can hit him with the strongest attack your character has. Its basicallg s feee stock.

Its honestly a losing battle for the village player, he has to first get the lead and then successfully camp you for 4-6 minutes perfectly. The opponent always has a chance to get a lucky spike or stage spike and kill him at 50 or less. But once the villager loses the lead at all, its practically game over. Because the character has no approach. Especially with that custom set.

 

[Project SonicSpeed]

Okay so after some testing with the New DI I just realized that a non rage b-throw doesn't kill Kirby until 120% as opposed to using the original smash DI which killed us at 109-110%. I'm guessing once people realize that they're DI'ing wrong and this video becomes more viral every character will be living alot longer and people won't die to mii brawler's helicopter kick at like 40% now.

Edit:Here's how the new DI works in this game now after the patch.
When getting knocked horizontally to the left hold towards the stage and vice-versa, unless the attack has slight vertical knockback in which case you hold diagnolly to the left/right towards the stage.
When getting knocked vertically hold straight left/right from the direction your opponent is facing.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Perfect pipivot uptilt is the future of the kirby metagame.

Being able to approach with uptilt is the most amazing thing in the world

 

[SapphSabre777]

Perfect pipivot uptilt is the future of the kirby metagame.

Being able to approach with uptilt is the most amazing thing in the world

I went ahead and took a look, and yeah, it is awesome. Too bad I'm too slow to make those frame-perfect movements. I hope it doesn't damage my abilities too much. ;.;

 

[Asdioh]

I've been trying it, but I'm so used to smash cstick it's awkward. Definitely is a rewarding approach, though it's unsafe if they simply shield.

 

[Unknownkid]

Well the villagers I mentioned are doing better, and awesum I think always gets top 3. A zss has been consistently winning though. I forgot to mention I think kirby is one of the better equipped characters for dealing with this, and even he struggles.

I see. What is the ZSS player doing to defeat Custom Villager especially against someone at Awesum's level? Also, who is the other character player in top 3?

 

[da K.I.D.]

Uup tilt is one of those moves thats technically unsafe, but nobodys going to actually do it on the fly in the middle of a match. The point of pivoting in to uptikts is the fact that you can space it rwally well, and you have accesss to instant fade away bair which will stuff like 99 percent of attwmpts to punish it.

Up tilt is only really punishable if you do it more than 2 times in a row or in shield grab range. And it usually has to be both in order for them to actually pull it off

 

[SapphSabre777]

I just hope I'm not missing anything thanks to my slow thumbs. For the life of me, I can't perfect pivot, and after one broken control stick, I don't want to break it again. On the flipside, I don't want to miss out on the tech, since I hear it can help Kirby, but it can be unsafe.

Gah, into the weekend with questions already!

 

[RedNova]

I just hope I'm not missing anything thanks to my slow thumbs. For the life of me, I can't perfect pivot, and after one broken control stick, I don't want to break it again. On the flipside, I don't want to miss out on the tech, since I hear it can help Kirby, but it can be unsafe.

Gah, into the weekend with questions already!

I don't think it gives you that much advantage. I mean, yeah, it's incredible, but there will be matches where you dont use perfect pivooting at all. Not many use them in all of their matches. You can practice in any other areas and still be as good as, or even better that guys that use PP.

 

[t!MmY]

Perfect pipivot uptilt is the future of the kirby metagame.

The name is just 'Pivot' - it was called that back in Brawl and probably also before Brawl with Melee/64.
It shouldn't be the future of the meta, it should be the present. I hear a lot of people john about using Pivots, but I've been striving to work them into my game play. It may not add much; but, as I say, every tech is worth learning.

 

[kirbyfan66]

Honestly, I think Pivot Down Tilt is more important, since you can use it from a distance and decrease the chances of being punished. A bit harder to follow up, but on a whole it's really cool. So is Up Tilt, though! And Down Smash.

 

[Jepps]

has anybody noticed that the cpus are starting to copy you? i was fighting level 9 kirby to see what i could learn and after he killed me...he started teabagging i got disrespected by a cpu....