Kirby Everything -- Kirby Social Thread

[Frost | Odds]

Once the opponent gets used to it, it's not too hard for them to stuff.

For some characters, heh.

 

[TheDangerBox]

Anyone else suffering from the kirby short hop struggle? lol hes a tight one to short hop on

 

[Player -0]

That's kind of like asking if people have trouble with Fox SHDL. You just kind of have to practice it.

 

[Jethroo]

<3 using neutral B on someone who's trying to get back on the stage and watching them wiggle there were out of it and helplessly falling to their death after they break free.

 

[jtm94]

I played Kirby vs Link and my friend has one pain in the a** Link.

I managed to beat him just by dash dancing away from EVERYTHING and then dash attacking into him then comboing for a lot of % and discarding him with bair. I didn't win by a lot, but no one ever does against Link.

I do not think dash attack is necessarily BROKEN, but the move is very very good. Like... I like it A LOTTTTTT. The cutter dash is just... HNNNGGG. You can mix up so many different approaches or not approach at all.

I am currently working on Inhale > break out of inhale at ledge > footstooling the opponent to their death. I really don't think many characters can deal with this too readily. Does anyone know if it is better to just exhale them? OR to shoot them out as a star so they end up farther away?

ALSO, I have found that while being ledgeguarded by someone right on the edge throwing out tilts you can use inhale to just PULL them off the stage. Hilarious.

Footstools too good.

 

[Glick]

Kirbys main issue was mobility and the dash attack and side cutter are exactly what he needed. He can now cross you up from half a stage away. It's pretty insane. He still has problem matchups (mostly projectile chars) but he has a great anti air (up tilt) a great out of sheild option (nair out of sheild) and a great grab game. He's a character you don't want to scrap with.

@ jtm94 It's good to inhale them on stage and walk off with them. it gives them plenty of time to try and break out which is exactly what you need. I haven't been able to pull off the footstool gimp off inhale but try to eat their jump with an aerial or a backwards cutter onto the ledge (depending on the recovery they have)

 

[jtm94]

Are you talking about just straight walking off the stage with them??

I remember talking to you about footstools on the stream you had with Guru and Gallo.

Kirby has crazy offstage game. Sometimes if I read their recovery right I will dash attack off the stage and hit them upwards giving me just enough time to jump and bair them for the gimp.

I need to experiment with the horizontal cutter for gimps though, I just use it as movement and to hit projectiles.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Kirby can do that too, I think
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0z6s9vBwHg

 

[jtm94]

Kirby can duck under... ANYTHING.(almost)

He can almost duck entirely under Marth's grab, the close you are to Marth the less he can grab you, which will be not at all.
He can duck under Zelda's FSmash as well as most FTilts that don't hit the ground of course.

 

[Glick]

Are you talking about just straight walking off the stage with them??

if its a character with a meh recovery you absolutely want them to break out off stage. because tehre's a really good chance they'll just die and you will be able to recover

 

[jtm94]

if its a character with a meh recovery you absolutely want them to break out off stage. because tehre's a really good chance they'll just die and you will be able to recover

I just don't like the whole suicide thing, so if they just let me suicide KO it wasn't as worth it as if they mash out on the ledge.

The suicide with Kirby forces a sudden death if both are even stock right? That's what happened for me.

 

[Frost | Odds]

Yeah, but in tournament rules the initiator of a suicide attack wins the game if it was both players' last stock.

Suicide kills are great if you're at high%, ahead in stock, or both.

 

[jtm94]

Yeah, but in tournament rules the initiator of a suicide attack wins the game if it was both players' last stock.

Suicide kills are great if you're at high%, ahead in stock, or both.

IS this for sure how the rules go??

 

[Phan7om]

@ jtm94 Kirby's inhale break is pretty risky against a player who knows about it. It really only works on people who actually try to break out (which gladly is a lot of people), if they just sit there you could end up killing yourself. And even say if you inhale them center stage and try to walk off with them so that they break out when the ledge comes, someone could easily react to what you're doing and mash out. The way I see inhale gimps is spitting them under the stage (if you can) and gimping them from there. And like Glick said, it might actually work despite if they mash out or not on characters with bad vertical recovery. Also inhale is just great to use in general since its a midair grab and goes through shields. Spitting them out usually is the best scenario, unless they have a powerup that significantly changes the matchup in your favor. But hey, keep experimenting with that inhale, since most people mash out anyway it should work.

@ Chesstiger2612 Kirby has the lowest crouch (unless they changed that for PM) so yes Kirby can do everything in that video plus more that even those characters cannot do.
---
And now for what Im experimenting with in the lab. Since Kirby's aerial hammer has very little landing lag, has great range on the sweetspot of the move (outranges all aerials), and is disjointed. I feel the move has a lot of potential. It could be like a psuedo Marth fair. It is possible that if you space it properly with proper timing, you cant be punished if the move hits their shield (at least I havent been punished, and it looks like with the sheild pushback you cant, but im not sure). And if they powersheild the first hit, it wont auto ps the second hit. And the sweetspot kills (depending on stage and DI of course) ~90%. And if they ever get hit with the sweetspot of the 2nd hit of the hammer >50% they should die regardless (if it doesnt hit across the stage) The only real drawback with this move is that its pretty telegraphed and easy to react to, so I wouldnt recommend spamming it, his aerials are still better imo... but try to think of it as Peach's fair with a bit more range, and is disjoined like Marths fair, with Kill power like Ganon's fair. We need to do more work with this move to see if its actually a viable mixup or not.

 

[Jethroo]

Can someone check on a person if on fox at around 60%, with kirby's up throw, then fast fall to ground it could lead to a fsmash on fox before he can touch ground. On a computer i can do it. If it doesn't DI i can hit it, if it DI's behind me i can hit it, and if it DI in front of me it will be slightly out of range, but i believe if you waveland forward you can cover all 3 areas.

 

[Glick]

@ jtm94 Kirby's inhale break is pretty risky against a player who knows about it. It really only works on people who actually try to break out (which gladly is a lot of people), if they just sit there you could end up killing yourself. And even say if you inhale them center stage and try to walk off with them so that they break out when the ledge comes, someone could easily react to what you're doing and mash out. The way I see inhale gimps is spitting them under the stage (if you can) and gimping them from there. And like Glick said, it might actually work despite if they mash out or not on characters with bad vertical recovery. Also inhale is just great to use in general since its a midair grab and goes through shields. Spitting them out usually is the best scenario, unless they have a powerup that significantly changes the matchup in your favor. But hey, keep experimenting with that inhale, since most people mash out anyway it should work.

Here's the thing though, fast fallers will fall straight down. try the "jump off ledge with them in your mouth" (actually jump) tactic. fast fallers will fall straight down, and sometimes it will put them right into the blast zone.

 

[NameChange]

How would you guys approach with Kirby? I seem to never know how.

 

[Jethroo]

standard dash attack which can be used to end up infront or behind them if shielded. At low % and stop infront of them you can use your Ftilt and Dtilt .
run up and jump cancel grab
cutter dash can put you infront of or behind them plus an attack or grab immediately after.
shffl any of the air attacks, but i prefer using the Fair because it pretty easy to get a grab immediately after.
Can always mix stuff up with dash dancing and wavedashing to of course.
Can always throw a short hop swallow to mess with them to.

 

[Ogopogo]

Are there any benefits that JC grab offers over dash grab?

 

[Jethroo]

Less lag if you miss and may have bigger hitbox, but not sure if it does for kirby.

 

[Player -0]

Dash grab has a hit box behind him but I'm pretty sure it has more end lag.

 

[Glick]

Let's have a serious discussion about kirbys down taunt. So did anybody notice that sometimes it makes the melee taunt noise?

 

[Ogopogo]

It does that when you press it very lightly. Similar to if you shorthopped and down taunt was the jump button

 

[SSS]

When you're off the ledge and they're on the ledge you can START to Inhale. They'll move towards your mouth. As they fall off the edge, stop inhaling, jump up, dair them, and edgeguard them. It's like Kirbyciding with out the ciding and a lot safer.

 

[Jethroo]

Would kirby be vulnerable to attack from them, since you have to get so close to edge to do that?

 

[SSS]

Would kirby be vulnerable to attack from them, since you have to get so close to edge to do that?

well i mean this isn't as a reliable approach. but let's say you come back from the edge a few times with an aerial or a cutter dash or a hammer. they shield and punish you. you do this a few times, they shield in expectation, you punish with Inhale.

In general inhale is a great way to mix aerials up, since if you train them to shield a short hop or a falling dair or something you could punish with your command grab.

 

[Vinylic.]

Sooooo, don't mind if I join in with you guys?

I'm gonna see if I can get used to this character and try to top others.

 

[Jethroo]

I agree with mixing inhale up with short hop on stage, but using on them right next to edge when your not trying to kirbycide, but just pulling them off *seems* like it will lead to a nasty punish. I could be wrong though since i haven't tried it yet. I usually use the inhale while coming back to the edge to either kirbycide or to get them to give me some room to recover from fear of the kirbycide.

 

[SSS]

Sooooo, don't mind if I join in with you guys?

I'm gonna see if I can get used to this character and try to top others.

Kirby=God

I agree with mixing inhale up with short hop on stage, but using on them right next to edge when your not trying to kirbycide, but just pulling them off *seems* like it will lead to a nasty punish. I could be wrong though since i haven't tried it yet. I usually use the inhale while coming back to the edge to either kirbycide or to get them to give me some room to recover from fear of the kirbycide.

now THAT is smart. putting the fear in them to help you recover. i've actually let kirbies recover too easiy in 64 because i feared the kirbycide.

 

[Jethroo]

Been messing around with ground dash cutter and it looks like it may give a free hammer/fsmash at certain %. Like on fox in training mode at 72-75 to like 85% he's so close to the ground that computer can't even tech before i hit immediately after with forward smash. Ike like 35-55%. jiggs like 15 to 25% with fsmash and 25 to 40% usmash. Once again this just in training mode with computer though.

 

[Kaysick]

I find this puffball as fun as Yoshi, which is saying a lot since I've put weeks of time into him already.

What are some good grab combos with Kirby? Haven't exactly explored the options too much.

 

[Frost | Odds]

Dthrow -> tech chase -> dthrow again until you suck (heh) and miss one. Then dash attack into everything.

 

[jtm94]

You can downthrow into FSmash with characters at higher percents and on Jiggs at fairly low percents.

 

[SSS]

If they don't tech, you can get a jab reset to regrab off of dthrow.
If you think they are going to you can get a ftilt before they have the chance.
If they tech you can use something like dash attack-->utilt-->bair or something.
Fthrow can go into uair sometimes.
I think Uthrow can lead to nair but only if you're super lucky.

 

[shairn]

Non-teched dthrow also leads into a guaranteed hammer for most characters, though whether or not it kills better than fsmash I couldn't say.

 

[jtm94]

Side Smash sends much lower, but grounded hammer may be stronger?

Tested, Sidesmash stops KOing at around 80/85 on Mario. SideB stops KOing at 65%.

Use side smash on fastfallers and potentially heavy characters, SideB everyone else.

 

[shairn]

After a bit of playing around, the choice between the two seems to be situational.

For example, I'm testing on a CF at 100% standing on the left side of FD. If I dthrow and he DIs towards the edge, fsmash will kill him. If he DIs away, fsmash wouldn't kill him, but hammer would send him off the top of the screen.

Essentially, hammer kills when fsmash does and doesn't, but comes out slower, which may or may not affect the combo-ability compared to fsmash.

 

[Player -0]

I think it's better to jab reset out of an unteched Down throw, that way you can add extra damage and make sure your opponent doesn't roll away or get up attack while you're hammerin'.

 

[shairn]

I'm pretty sure the only way to get out from the dthrow-hammer is to tech or to be Samus, Puff or a space animal, so you're pretty safe throwing out a hammer, since you catch most characters off the bounce of what would have been a tech if they bothered to and not off the ground.

 

[Kaysick]

Thanks for the replies guys, I really appreciate it. Wish the Yoshi forum was more active, but a man can dream.

What are some nice combos that you can pull off? I love doing dash attack > bair a lot even though a friend told me dash attack > utilt is a better option.

One thing I learned as well, you can infinitely grab Ivysaur with dthrow (I believe) as long as they don't DI.