Social King K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: This...Is Our Finest Hour!

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Maybe, although, maybe less, gimmicky? Let me go on record to say that I haven't played the M&L remakes, but it's my impression based on gameplay that they seem like another way to justify the touchscreens on the DS or alternate ways to play, as opposed to just "Hey! New campaign where you can play Mario & Luigi, Bowser, AND Bowser Jr., complete with new skills and bosses and locales", which personally I would've preferred. If K. Rool was made playable in a DKC game (mainline preferred but I wouldn't be opposed to spin offs depending on what it is.), I wouldn't want it to be like "You control K. Rool exclusively by whistling into the Switch's microphone at different frequency's to make him move with the helepack and shoot his Blunderbuss!" and more just another playable character that is also uniquely different in playstyle, abilities, and personality. Something that doesn't fix what isn't broken, but rather just says "You know how to play this if you've played a DKC game before, but just know K. Rool doesn't throw his weight around like DK, fly like Dixie, pogo like Cranky, use a insta win surfboard like Funky or do... what ever Diddy does now. He has his own tricks, and you have to master those to win.". TBH I wouldn't even be opposed to K. rool being main campaign alongside the Kongs, but a lot of people seem to disagree with me on that, so I offered something I would also like to see them do with Rool that might not seemingly betray his character to so many fans.

Ahh, I see.

A Sonic Adventure-ish approach like you say can work sensibly, since 2 had you play as the antagonists in one of the campaigns. Hell, this would even be a handy way of justifying flunky Kremlings like Klump, Kalypso et all to be playable.

Only problem is it would be extra work, depending on how much time the devs are allowed to make the game.

 

[InASnowBoundLand]

Eh, I don't see what's so bad if K. Rool is playable in a mainline campaign. He's a cartoon villain who steals bananas whose name is a bad pun and who breaks the fourth wall to trick you into thinking he's defeated. He also wears ridiculous "disguises" to go along with unnecessary alter egos. He's a goof at his core, he's just like a menacing goof. He doesn't have to be as cooperative as Dedede, but I can definitely see him cooperating with the Kongs begrudgingly because of a greater threat. Wouldn't seem off to me at all, would actually be an interesting new horizon for K. Rool.

I personally would like to see him return as villain first. Maybe he could be an unlockable character in the same game just as a neat extra.

 

[SmashKeks]

Eh, I don't see what's so bad if K. Rool is playable in a mainline campaign. He's a cartoon villain who steals bananas whose name is a bad pun and who breaks the fourth wall to trick you into thinking he's defeated. He also wears ridiculous "disguises" to go along with unnecessary alter egos. He's a goof at his core, he's just like a menacing goof. He doesn't have to be as cooperative as Dedede, but I can definitely see him cooperating with the Kongs begrudgingly because of a greater threat. Wouldn't seem off to me at all, would actually be an interesting new horizon for K. Rool.

I personally would like to see him return as villain first. Maybe he could be an unlockable character in the same game just as a neat extra.

Fair enough, I was just echoing the reception I got to the idea when I suggested such a thing happening before. I got a lot of people rebutting saying that the fact K. Rool tortured Donkey Kong and actively tries to starve them (the Kongs) and blow them and their home up means that his hatred for the Kongs would transcend any shred of reason he might have in helping the Kongs, even if it would otherwise benefit him. Again, not saying I agree, but that was the gist of what a lot of K. Rool fans on these boards said to me when I suggested Donkey and K. Rool could team up in a future game.

I will admit that K. Rool's methods are a bit more visceral, although it is contrasted by cartoony squash and stretch that seemingly betrays the brutal context of some of the things he's done. For example, shooting someone in the head is horrific, however Elmer Fudd shooting Daffy in the head in a Looney Toons cartoon and his beak being relocated to the back of his head is played for laughs and isn't considered horrific since Daffy clearly isn't in any real pain or danger. I've heard some people say K. Rool is up there with Ridley or Ganondorf as among Nintendo's most evil villains, but I can't suggest that that assertion loses a bit of its' punch if we never see things like Donkey Kong starving, or being in any real pain by taking three cannonballs to the side while being tied up, or being disintegrated by a lazer destroying DK Isle (And indeed we shouldn't, of course, since clearly the DKC series aren't the type of games to go for a serious, heavy handed tone that implies lasting consequences for failure (At least none that are shown on camera), and to do so would be extremely out of left field and off putting.).

TL;DR: K. Rool's villainy is a cut above more harmless characters like Bowser or DeDeDe when looked at objectively, As for example Bowser prefers to kidnap Peach as opposed to lay fiery waste to the entire Mushroom Kingdom just to kill Mario, however the games are cartoony enough that K. Rool literally starving and torturing Kongs doesn't come off as very serious, as opposed to characters like Ridley who are definitely treated like a valid threat who actively murder people.

 

[Laniv]

Personally, I like how Mario and Bowser are pretty close to each other but Donkey Kong and K. Rool are as far apart as they can manage.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Yeah every time I see complaints about whether DThrow is a true combo against this or that character or whether some pro made a K. ROOL LOW TIER?!?! video for clicks, I pause and remember how fortunate K. Rool fans are that these are the extent of our worries in 2019, and not whether there's some secret blacklist among Nintendo's top brass preventing K. Rool from ever showing up again. There might be moments where I'm getting BTFO online but I can at least muster a grin knowing I'm getting BTFO as a character many said was a Never Ever.

Absolutely! We K. Rool fans are living in a much better world then we did back in pre-August 8th 2018.

Speaking of which would playing as the King and or the Kremling Kourt in a DK game, suit anyone's fancy.?

I would love to play as K. Rool and the Kutthroats in a new DKCR game fighting alongside DK and the Kongs against a bigger foe or a alternate mode where you get to experience the Kremlings side of the story.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

View attachment 187517

Personally, I like how Mario and Bowser are pretty close to each other but Donkey Kong and K. Rool are as far apart as they can manage.

Same here, heh.

Meanwhile Meta Knight is the only playable Kirby character that isn't in this shot. Honestly makes me wonder how Sakurai feels about him these days.

 

[meleebrawler]

Same here, heh.

Meanwhile Meta Knight is the only playable Kirby character that isn't in this shot. Honestly makes me wonder how Sakurai feels about him these days.

Seeing as how he doesn't develop Kirby games anymore, he probably still tries to see Meta Knight as the lone rogue with his own agenda instead of the out-and out hero he's been turned into post-Air Ride, though I guess it really started with his depiction in Right Back At Ya, which was the most screen time the character had ever gotten up to that point. Kind of like how Ridley's significance to Metroid was jump-started in 2002 with the manga.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

TL;DR: K. Rool's villainy is a cut above more harmless characters like Bowser or DeDeDe when looked at objectively, As for example Bowser prefers to kidnap Peach as opposed to lay fiery waste to the entire Mushroom Kingdom just to kill Mario, however the games are cartoony enough that K. Rool literally starving and torturing Kongs doesn't come off as very serious, as opposed to characters like Ridley who are definitely treated like a valid threat who actively murder people.

Yeah, he's basically like Adam West Joker; he can potentially kill the heroes, but he's still highly comical and the heroes are never in any real danger of death since they get out of it just in time.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Same here, heh.

Meanwhile Meta Knight is the only playable Kirby character that isn't in this shot. Honestly makes me wonder how Sakurai feels about him these days.

I think he treats him well for a few reasons I can list:

1. He developed Meta Knight in Brawl as the first fighter, while he developed King Dedede right after Sonic in that game. Which, you know Sonic was developed late into Brawl's development cycle.

2. He is the only anti-hero/villain that has a stage. Not even Bowser has a stage, that speaks volumes.

3. He has his own victory theme being a metal remix of the Kirby victory theme.

So I think Meta Knight get's a lot of attention from Sakurai to be honest.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I think he treats him well for a few reasons I can list:

1. He developed Meta Knight in Brawl as the first fighter, while he developed King Dedede right after Sonic in that game. Which, you know Sonic was developed late into Brawl's development cycle.

2. He is the only anti-hero/villain that has a stage. Not even Bowser has a stage, that speaks volumes.

3. He has his own victory theme being a metal remix of the Kirby victory theme.

So I think Meta Knight get's a lot of attention from Sakurai to be honest.

Actually, Ganondorf has one (his hometown of Gerudo Valley, which even has his own minions Koume and Kotake showing up), otherwise the rest of your points still stand.

Yet the irony is that MK's FS was never changed until now, whereas King Dedede's was swapped out twice.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Actually, Ganondorf has one (his hometown of Gerudo Valley, which even has his own minions Koume and Kotake showing up), otherwise the rest of your points still stand.

Yet the irony is that MK's FS was never changed until now, whereas King Dedede's was swapped out twice.

I forgot Gerudo Valley is in Smash. Stupid me.

But honestly though, Ganondorf never shows up in Gerudo Valley at all in OOT, so it's really more associated with the Gerudo and Twinrova more than him.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I forgot Gerudo Valley is in Smash. Stupid me.

But honestly though, Ganondorf never shows up in Gerudo Valley at all in OOT, so it's really more associated with the Gerudo and Twinrova more than him.

In any case, depending on your views of Wario, he still gets two stages (although Gamer has more in common with 9-Volt, but that's besides the point).

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Actually, Ganondorf has one (his hometown of Gerudo Valley, which even has his own minions Koume and Kotake showing up),

Counterpoint - the Dorf is never actually seen in Gerudo Valley. And the official website puts it as Sheik's background and it's used for her unlock battle. Smash associates the Dorf with Eldin Bridge, ostensibly because it's dusk and everything's red. Especially egregious now that everyone's lost their TP costumes.

But yes, a good Bowser's Castle, Ganon's Castle, and Gangplank Galleon are missing. Meanwhile, we've got way too many levels that are too similar (how many Mario World 1-1 levels are there?)

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Counterpoint - the Dorf is never actually seen in Gerudo Valley. And the official website puts it as Sheik's background and it's used for her unlock battle. Smash associates the Dorf with Eldin Bridge, ostensibly because it's dusk and everything's red. Especially egregious now that everyone's lost their TP costumes.

But yes, a good Bowser's Castle, Ganon's Castle, and Gangplank Galleon are missing. Meanwhile, we've got way too many levels that are too similar (how many Mario World 1-1 levels are there?)

At least we got New Donk City, it's not a modern major Mario game stage with green in it for once. Hell, I'm convinced the only reason 75M is still around is so that DK doesn't have jungle stages only. Something tells me this situation might have something to do with Japan preferring heroes.

If only there was a ballot so that people can ask for stage possibilities.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Counterpoint - the Dorf is never actually seen in Gerudo Valley. And the official website puts it as Sheik's background and it's used for her unlock battle. Smash associates the Dorf with Eldin Bridge, ostensibly because it's dusk and everything's red. Especially egregious now that everyone's lost their TP costumes.

But yes, a good Bowser's Castle, Ganon's Castle, and Gangplank Galleon are missing. Meanwhile, we've got way too many levels that are too similar (how many Mario World 1-1 levels are there?)

Just because Smash put's a character in a stage, doesn't mean they're associated with it. Ganondorf never shows up in Eldin Bridge at all in TP.

At least we got New Donk City, it's not a modern major Mario game stage with green in it for once. Hell, I'm convinced the only reason 75M is still around is so that DK doesn't have jungle stages only. Something tells me this situation might have something to do with Japan preferring heroes.

If only there was a ballot so that people can ask for stage possibilities.

I would vote for a Ganon's Castle from OOT or Whomp's Fortress from Super Mario 64.

 

[meleebrawler]

Don't forget the Paper Mario stage has a Bowser's Castle segment, and Ganon gets an arena that is at the very least evocative of the ruins of his castle you fight him on.

CaptainAmerica There's only ever been one level directly based on World 1-1, that being Mushroomy Kingdom. The rest are at best based on Super Mario Bros.'s ground levels with nothing more specific in mind.

 

[Pakky]

Spoiler: Sneak peak_Still LOTS to do

Oh about the girl up top she's Kalypso I'm using her for my new work portfolio to broaden my horizons. The idea is to do her up like 's model but with a different outfit. She's only whew like 6% done at this point but I wanted to show off what I had.

Alright, gang made some progress.

If you want some lore on some of the choices I'll spill them freely.

Spoiler: 25% done

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Loving this so far. Any particular reason for the Zinger there?

 

[Pakky]

Loving this so far. Any particular reason for the Zinger there?

Well I was thinking about if had abilities what would they be?

The skull on the original's shirt looked like a Zinger head to me so I thought, okay I'm going in incorporate Zinger motifs into her new pirate costume.

In the games there was a King and Queen Zinger and I presume they are both dead, so this is the 'princess?' Zinger and she will act as a familiar to Klypso. Think of her as having a Luma but only activates when prompted.

Also I'm going to include two flink-lock pistols that shoot smaller- Zingers.

 

[Questionmark222]

Hey komrades, the Smash franchise turns 20 today, so let's all take some time to appreciate once again that our Kommander K. Rool was brought back from the dead and immortalized as a Nintendo All-Star in the greatest crossover in gaming history! Because without Smash, he would still be lying in his grave, begging for a revival...
Now, here's hoping that he's brought back to DKC...

 

[~The Koopa King~]

being thought of as the worst character in ultimate makes being a k.rool main really hard....

 

[The Event Mask]

being thought of as the worst character in ultimate makes being a k.rool main really hard....

Well now you know how Ridley players felt when the game came out, or even how Ganondorf players felt during Brawl and Smash 4

 

[Yellowlord]

Well guys: I reached Elite Smash with K. Rool last night!

Don't know how long that will last, but I feel it's a huge achievement in itself for me!

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

One final note on antagonist stages; does anyone else find it really backwards that we have N's castle, but not him? Any casual Smash player not exposed to Pokémon would wonder who the hell he even is.

Well now you know how Ridley players felt when the game came out, or even how Ganondorf players felt during Brawl and Smash 4

Or Dedede mains, during 4.

 

[IMainKingKRool]

It's hilarious to me that perception of this character has fluctuated so much. From "he's busted" to "he's just a noob killer" to "he sucks" all in a couple months. There's always gonna be someone out there giving you heck no matter who you play, I wouldn't pay em too much mind

 

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

It's hilarious to me that perception of this character has fluctuated so much. From "he's busted" to "he's just a noob killer" to "he sucks" all in a couple months. There's always gonna be someone out there giving you heck no matter who you play, I wouldn't pay em too much mind

It also shows you how fickle both the fans and the "pros" can be.

You'd think people would know better and exercise a little patience, rather than to make rash, grandiose statements about a game's content less than a couple of months after release.

Especially a game as diverse as Smash.

Thats the interwebz and to a lesser extent click bait culture for you I guess.

 

[ZTurtle]

It's hilarious to me that perception of this character has fluctuated so much. From "he's busted" to "he's just a noob killer" to "he sucks" all in a couple months. There's always gonna be someone out there giving you heck no matter who you play, I wouldn't pay em too much mind

Well of course K. Rool sucks....

In all seriousness though, it is a bit disheartening to see the community's perception of K. Rool's viability essentially do a 180 from the footage we got from the full-roster demo to now. It's better than K. Rool being broken, but I am kinda sad that K. Rool's moveset was rather overhyped by the community (Especially when folks like ZeRo called him "the best heavy"), I think that made people even more inclined to put him down as his weaknesses became more apparent.

Of course, with the game being out for little more than a month, it's probably too soon to make any strong statements on the matter, especially when balance patches will inevitably roll out... though considering K. Rool's reputation early on, I do fear he'll get unwarranted nerfs that may well make him bottom-tier. Personally, if K. Rool ended up being solid mid-tier I'd be totally down with that. But I guess it's just a matter of waiting to see how Rool's meta develops.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

As if any of this tier discussion is going to change how I feel about him...

Man, K.Rool is just awesome. His moveset is so lovingly crafted, and it's phenomenal to see him back after so long. Who cares if he's broken one way or the other?

Is he fun? Yes. Done.

 

[BravadoMan_13]

People are regarding K. Rool as the worst character in Ultimate??

They are sure flip-flopping their opinions aren't they? I don't give a damn if so called "pros" think he doesn't win tournaments and think he isn't that good. I'm still gonna play tons of matches as K. Rool and plus he does have one of the best recoveries in the game. Though like BKupa666 said, I rather have this problem than having K. Rool still not be playable and in the figurative grave.

Edit: Happy 20th Anniversary to Smash! I thankful for this series and being to be here to discuss the game with you. I thankful for Sakurai for making K. Rool such an awesome character and giving him so much love in this game. I can't believe I was in grade school when the original came out all those years ago...

 

[Pakky]

So should I make Tiny Kong?

 

[AndreaAC]

People are regarding K. Rool as the worst character in Ultimate??

They are sure flip-flopping their opinions aren't they? I don't give a damn if so called "pros" think he doesn't win tournaments and think he isn't that good. I'm still gonna play tons of matches as K. Rool and plus he does have one of the best recoveries in the game. Though like BKupa666 said, I rather have this problem than having K. Rool still not be playable and in the figurative grave.

Edit: Happy 20th Anniversary to Smash! I thankful for this series and being to be here to discuss the game with you. I thankful for Sakurai for making K. Rool such an awesome character and giving him so much love in this game. I can't believe I was in grade school when the original came out all those years ago...

I think this happens with any character (But guess the newcomers have become the main target)...but why does it even matter what the "Pros" think? This game was made to play whichever character YOU want; not to use whatever the "pros" dictate is good in their "perspective". And yeah, the most important thing, is that after so much waiting, we have the character we have been supporting for so long, despite the previous years being filled with chaos and deception. Now, it is finally over. The faction war is over, the tension of waiting for them is over. And there they are for us to enjoy in whatever way possible. We couldn't ask for more.

 

[Raxxel]

I can't see K. Rool being the worst character tier wise when Kirby exists.

Anyway, it's true that K. Rool has some obvious issues, such as lack of out of shield, safe on shield, and landing options, as well as having quite possibly one of the worst counter/reflects in the entire game. However, his grab game is still phenomenal, his on and off stage edge-guarding is excellent thanks to an insanely reliable recovery and his blunderbuss, he has some very good kill confirms such as his bury into up tilt as well as dair into usmash, his neutral is overall pretty good still thanks to his two projectiles and decent aerial options to cover above ground approaches from opponents. His biggest problem is that in disadvantage he's lacking.

If I were to recommend any buffs for him, I would say maybe bair could be made safe on shield??? It has large startup and can be evaded rather easily, so I'd say it's a fair trade-off. Adjust his armor hitboxes to feel a bit more consistent and reliable, and do something to make the down b more viable. Either reduce the startup frames so it can be used on reaction better, or reduce the endlag so that throwing it out is less of a death sentence. That's just me though. Also adjust the frontal hitbox to be a bit larger vertically, large enough that Isabelle's shorthop fair or bair can be reflected from the ground.

 

[WaddleKing]

I've noticed people just have general harsh opinions thanks to the explosivness of K. Rool and him being a newcomer from "Overpowered" to "Braindead" to "Trash". King K. Rool doesn't have glaring flaws that make him trash and there's no way he can be op by design, he's simple to pick up and play but that's how a lot of super heavies tend to be, to go further with him is going to take a different route from your general character especially ones like Sheik, ZSS, Captain Falcon and so on. There's plenty of things K. Rool players still need to develop and practice where and what works like projectile set ups, potential recovery mixups vs people or characters who can punish it well and so on. He's got a lot of weaknesses to work around that in itself can add to the challenge of learning him deeply, alongside just getting better fundamentally and at the character like others would at any other.

But yeah I'm glad he's in though, he's extremely fun but I'd be pretty annoyed if they gave him unjustified nerfs like they did with Dedede in 4, maybe a bit at neglect too but it depends on how much they change the others.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Too be honest guys, I think K. Rool is low or mid mid tier at best and is not in anyway low tier at all.

 

[~The Koopa King~]

good lord one of the commentators in this match was just dumping on K.Rool hardcore(calling him bottom 5)

 

[Raxxel]

good lord one of the commentators in this match was just dumping on K.Rool hardcore(calling him bottom 5)

Bottom 5 is silly. Kirby, Mac, Shiek, Incineroar, and Game & Watch are characters that are worse-off than K. Rool, and that's off the top of my head.

 

[~The Koopa King~]

what's worse is that He Called Dedede better and then this was the only K.Rool video from that tournament....

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Again, nobody knows K. Rool's meta game just yet. People are making early guesses about if he's good or bad and don't know about his full potential yet. He is I REPEAT, not low tier at all.

 

[Sudz]

Bottom 5 is silly. Kirby, Mac, Shiek, Incineroar, and Game & Watch are characters that are worse-off than K. Rool, and that's off the top of my head.

While I agree that K Rool is not bottom 5, Game & Watch's Ultimate meta game is easily as undeveloped as his if not more-so. The changes made to G&W in Ultimate have a significant impact on his playstyle, he was essentially given a complete rework and with that I would argue that he's one of the more difficult characters in the game to learn rn and it remains to be seen whether he is terrible or not

 

[BKupa666]

This is a dramatic reading of how a 4chan user with, shall we say, a fondness for characters with recent appearances reacted leading up to and after the August 8 Direct where K. Rool and co. got announced.