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K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: PM BKupa666 for an Invite to the New K. Rool Thread

BKupa666

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Copying this argument into here because it's something worth discussing where movesets are concerned.

I suppose the most comparable case to K. Rool here would be Kirby. Well, he doesn't get actual personas like K. Rool does, but he's still in a similar position when it comes to costumes at least. In his games Kirby can't freely change his abilities and needs to get a certain power to use each of them which by the way give him a unique hat... whereas in Smash Bros. Kirby can use three visually distinct of these powers without having any hat, and even then he can still use them all when he gets one by inhaling an opponent. (Or four copy abilities at once without the possibility to get any hat at all if you use Ice Breath custom)

I'm not saying your point is moot, actually I'd say it may be the biggest hurdle K. Rool could have to face, the guy who made this game was the one who judged Mario's doctor persona worthy of being his own separate character after all, but I wouldn't say it couldn't be worked on. I would say even though he never used it outside of his Kaptain persona as of now, King K. Rool using the blunderbuss for a few moves (two or three at most I'd say) wouldn't look that out of place imo. Now the helicopter pack which is generally suggested as his recovery admittedly clashes with the King persona more than the blunderbuss does, but if used for the recovery and nothing more it wouldn't be that much of a deal breaker imo.

When it comes to fan-made K. Rool movesets I feel that there are often ideas to use even the most obscure source of moveset potential using electric pods, boxing gloves etc. to create MUH UNIQUE moves for the sake of referencing source material and I'm don't think that I agree with this moveset design philosophy, because at some point you're going to break his thematic coherence as a fighter. I personally have an accurate idea of how I would design him if I had to make a Smash game and the only visually unique things outside of his King persona I would give him (so no counting generic moves like the ground pound from DK64) would be him using the blunderbuss for his neutral special (status gases), side smash (spiked kannonball), and maybe his grab (the vacuum thing), plus the helicopter pack up special. That's about the same amount of "out of place" moves as Kirby actually has in Smash... and while we're talking about him, at first I was disappointed when I played Triple Deluxe to see the sheer amount of potential he could have from those copy abilities instead of the mostly generic looking normal moves he has in Smash but I have to admit that giving him too much visually unique moves as normals would break his thematic coherence as a Smash fighter. Some of his normal moves are actually inspired from his several copy abilities (like fighter jab and forward smash, yo-yo dash attack and ninja up throw) but they look generic enough to not break his thematic coherence. To give another example there's a reason why things like Gust Bellows, Beetle and Bombchus are regular items and not part of Link's moveset, because his main weapon is still his sword anyway and he only needs his most iconic secondary weapons to be done justice.

I agree with your point overall, as seeing King K. Rool using a mix of blunderbuss, boxing gloves, electricity, etc. moves for all of his moveset as a way to design it with the same state of mind as Mega Man by trying to make each move reference something very specific is not going to feel right; it works for Mega Man because he's a robot specialized in permanently stealing robot master weapons, but I doubt it would work well for K. Rool. I still think it could work wonderfully with the same state of mind as for Kirby's moveset instead, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's going to be the main reason for his exclusion. Especially if we're getting a Kaptain K. Rool Mii gunner costume in a future update...
I have a feeling one Sakurai reservation about K. Rool is that "his moves don't flow together because they all use different weapons and fans don't understand because they just put all the weapons together in one moveset." Do you think this is a possibility? What do you all think is the easiest solution to it?
 

Strider_Bond00J

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Now that I've completed my Inklings and Isaac movesets, the next on the list is King K. Rool, and maybe after that I'll try my hand with Rayman,

I bring this up now because I'm looking over that argument about K. Rool's coherence and authenticity and trying to make him something interesting.
 
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Wintropy

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I have a feeling one Sakurai reservation about K. Rool is that "his moves don't flow together because they all use different weapons and fans don't understand because they just put all the weapons together in one moveset." Do you think this is a possibility? What do you all think is the easiest solution to it?
The easiest solution is to make it evident that K. Rool's moveset is intended to be a chaotic mess.

His elegance is in his mania.
 

Fuerzo

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There are plenty of characters that seem to not fit together but work much better once figured out--Wario and Pac Man are two major examples.
 

King_K_Rules

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King K. Rool is tricky and devious and uses all these different gadgets to defeat his enemies. It's part of his character. (Like Wile E. Coyote) . It is important to stress this fact, I know I mentioned in several ballot writeups King K. Rool's devious and maniac personality. There's nothing out of character about K. Rool using all these different gadgets/abilites.

I read that the whole "brother" thing in the Brawl trophy is a because of a direct translation of the Japanese text. Maybe in Japan, King K. Rool and Kaptain K. Rool are viewed as different characters, so Sakurai might have this idea that they are different characters?
 
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TheRealHeroOfWinds

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Guys, are you noticing how close we are to 1,000 pages?! That's ridiculous, let's go guys!

TEN PAGES REMAIN
 
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Pakky

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So has the king's weight, dispute been settled? I still say he should be the heaviest character with the best ground pound but that's just me.
 

TheSmasher916

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So has the king's weight, dispute been settled? I still say he should be the heaviest character with the best ground pound but that's just me.
I agree. He just needs some sort of quick nair or something to avoid becoming complete combo food
 
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How long has the costume been out, just under a month?

Say we were to get a Direct in the next few weeks I can't see them revealing K.Rool then and there as a playable fighter, if K. Rool is still in the running you'd think they'd wait on people buying the costume, drum up more interest, sales, etc instead of "undermiming" the costume and releasing K.Rool as a fighter. If anything I'd expect something closer to or around October in regards to news on our King and if he is in(or not).
 

Travix Man

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I gave my rating to King K. Rool, though they said it was over a minute before my post got through. Does this mean that they won't count my post?

Here is my rating of King K. Rool:
King K. Rool

Chance: 80%

While the costume seems to have thrown many K. Rool supporters off the ship, I'm thinking it could be the other way around. King K. Rool is still one of the most popular characters on the ballot, and while it is uncertain as to whether costumes deconfirm a character or not, nothing changes the fact that King K. Rool has one of the largest support groups.

Want: 100%

King K. Rool is actually one of my favorite villains of all time, rooting back from my childhood days of playing Donkey Kong Country and Donkey Kong 64 (I still need to get the other two games). He could be one of the most versatile heavyweights in the game with an arsenal of weapons to choose from. He is also the main villain of the Donkey Kong series, which Super Smash Bros. could use more villains and another character for the Donkey Kong series, which did not get much content other than remixes of Jungle Hyjinx (The first level from DKC).
 

TheGalaxyKnight

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Unrelated topic: I decided to draw some inspiration from Kings Wart & K.Rool for the villain of a game I am making! Yay!
Related topic: I think we should play some upbeat K.Rool related music here when K.Rool is confirmed! Nothing but K.Rool music!
 

InsaneStar

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Something to pass up to 1000 pages? Sure, why not? Well, I don't know if anyone thought of this. Days back when I joined this bandwagon, I posted a few fan-arts of K. Rool and his... prince, but.. did anyone thought of K. Rool having an offspring? Reason? Just like Bowser had Bowser Jr. to let him become the future heir to the throne to become the next Koopa King. And for King K. Rool, who's gonna be the future ruler of the Kremling Krew to take over DK Island when he retires? What you guys or K. Rool fans think of K. Rool having a offspring?
 

TallT

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Something to pass up to 1000 pages? Sure, why not? Well, I don't know if anyone thought of this. Days back when I joined this bandwagon, I posted a few fan-arts of K. Rool and his... prince, but.. did anyone thought of K. Rool having an offspring? Reason? Just like Bowser had Bowser Jr. to let him become the future heir to the throne to become the next Koopa King. And for King K. Rool, who's gonna be the future ruler of the Kremling Krew to take over DK Island when he retires? What you guys or K. Rool fans think of K. Rool having a offspring?
Well he did say he has a wife (unlike Bowser) so it could happen. lol
 
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InsaneStar

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DKC 3 final boss fight if I remember correctly.
Ah. All right then. Going this discussion. Hmmm... what would K. Rool's offspring will be named? If it's a boy (like in the fan-art I made), I can't believe I'm gonna say this simple name that most of my folks liked it. Prince K. Rooler. A crueler prince who gonna's become a crueler king in the future.

Think the name is okay cause for fitting the 'K' puns or lame? If lame, do you guys have some good names you can think of?
 

Sirfishe

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If King K. Rool was in the next DKC game, what type of boss battle would you have with him? What could be some new attacks and moves he can use that we haven't seen before? What outfit would he wear? Where would the battle take place?
 

Pakky

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I agree. He just needs some sort of quick nair or something to avoid becoming complete combo food
Lol that selfdestruct move that he does upon getting hit in DKC2 would be an interesting nair, though I just throwing things out there.
 

TallT

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Ah. All right then. Going this discussion. Hmmm... what would K. Rool's offspring will be named? If it's a boy (like in the fan-art I made), I can't believe I'm gonna say this simple name that most of my folks liked it. Prince K. Rooler. A crueler prince who gonna's become a crueler king in the future.

Think the name is okay cause for fitting the 'K' puns or lame? If lame, do you guys have some good names you can think of?
I don't think it would be fitting for K. Rool to have offspring but if he did that would be a kool name.

When the King finally returns to the DKC series I would like to see them reference all of his previous boss fights from DKC 1-3 and then he finally pulls out something new like Kaveman K. Rool.
 
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dangeraaron10

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In terms of K. Rool, if Sakurai really felt like K. Rool could only pull from one persona primarily (while still fudging in the helicopter pack for an Up special recovery but that's it) then honestly I'd MUCH rather K. Rool appear in his Kaptain persona rocking that multi-purpose blunderbuss.

It would be crazy if King K. Rool became a mii costume but Kaptain K. Rool became a fully fledged fighter. It's not going to happen but a man can dream, can't he?

Basically the whole "projectile/trap" archetype RELIES on the blunderbuss. It can shoot out status effect clouds, regular cannonballs (and utilize falling cannonballs from DKC1), spiked cannonballs, bouncy cannonballs, can be used to propel him forward in a burst of fire, and that huge pirate jacket looks badass on K. Rool and by far my favorite design of him. Not to mention we don't even HAVE a pirate character, nor stage (with the loss of Pirate Ship).

I mean, come on. This fan art is one of my favorites (not mine, obviously) because it shows just how bloodthirsty and unhinged he is like a real dread pirate:



I dunno I just think his Kaptain persona is his most intimidating one. Bowser's a more demonic lava castle king, Dedede is more of an oriental king, K. Rool is the scourge of the seven seas. But dat jacket, though.

So yeah, just to reiterate, most of our "muh unique" arguments making him projectile based ala Snake would hinge on his DKC2 material and his Kaptain persona, must notably the blunderbuss being the keystone in his moveset.
 

InsaneStar

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When the King finally returns to the DKC series I would like to see them reference all of his previous boss fights from DKC 1-3 and then he finally pulls out something new like Kaveman K. Rool.
Sounds like a time travel plot if there's a new DKC game like that. DK (or his friends) goes in different time periods like the past and future and fight different K. Rools (maybe ancestors or decendants?) depending on the theme and time where they fight.
 

dangeraaron10

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Since I'm on the subject, I have to ask this thread, how would you feel it K. Rool adopted the "Pirate King" persona and ran with it, making it his default appearance with the Kremling Krew literally being a crocodile pirate crew in a new DKC Returns game? Would you rather he stick to his more well known King persona with Kremling themes just sorta all over the place? I can't imagine people wanting Roolenstein to come back since that sorta just copies off of Dr. Eggman, Dr. Wiley, and Dr. Neo Cortex in the evil video game scientist department.

Plenty of others want him to have a new persona entirely. Stalin K. Rool and Sheriff K. Rool being two thrown around a lot.

Dread pirate king is something that really isn't in Nintendo already, sans Captain Syrup who is as forgotten as Wario Land in general is. They sorta dabbled at it in Wind Waker. Then you have the almost-pirates (aka Vikings) in the Snowmads. What I'd do to see a DKCR3 where there is a 3 way war between the Kremling pirates, Snowmad vikings, and the Kongs (the Tikis just don't have the same clout or charisma as the other two in my eyes and are generally widely panned).

Risky Boots doesn't count, she's not a Nintendo IP. Though she just reminds me of a purple skinned Captain Syrup anyway at least in aesthetics. But this is about K. Rool the Pirate King and the Dread of the Seven Seas!

Edit: I took a look at the nominations thread and K. Rool retained Number 2 in Top 10 Chance, but dropped from Number 1 to 2 in Top 10 Want behind Wolf, simply because quite a few absolutely did not want him, which is fine, because not everyone has to like him, but I was worried K. Rool would drop much more significantly so I'm pleased he's still the highest voted in Chance and Want as far as Newcomers go (second only to Wolf in both, which is the real "shoe-in" everyone's expecting which would leave people gasping for air if he is skipped over, myself included).
 
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TallT

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Hey you guys I enter into the Smash Bros photo contest their having on Miiverse and of course I made sure to make K. Rool the star of the picture. Now hopefully Sakurai sees it since he will be one of the judges. Also if anyone else entered with a picture about K. Rool post it here because I would love to see them.
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHkWpdQR2g

King K. Rool and a Kritter are working together to Kidnap all of the Kongs again, but look Diddy Kong to the rescue!! #KrocTheVote
 

Mariomaniac45213

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Really? In what game did he mention his wife? So far I only played the first DKC and 64.
DKC3. I always thought K.Rool's wifes name should be "K.Roola Deville" and I always (in my mind) thought K.Rool was a family man when not antagonizing the Kongs. I always viewed Kip, Kass, and Kalypso as his 3 children. Would explain why he's been absent for 7 years...
 
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DKC3. I always thought K.Rool's wifes name should be "K.Roola Deville" and I always (in my mind) thought K.Rool was a family man when not antagonizing the Kongs. I always viewed Kip, Kass, and Kalypso as his 3 children. Would explain why he's been absent for 7 years...
Off topic, but damn son, nice amiibo collection.
 

Raxxel

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My K. Rool moveset below the spoiler.
King K. Rool would, as many here have speculated, be a heavyweight trickster. I think he would likely be a little taller than DK, even without the crown.
Neutral special would be him stomping on the ground, causing a cannonball to fall down in a place that depends on where you aimed. How this works is that the startup has a lot of lag, allowing you some time to move a vertical beeline around that decides where the cannonball lands. Would cause heavy knockback in exchange for long startup.
Side special would be him taking out the blunderbuss, and shooting out a gas depending which way you tilt the joystick. There is a bit of time to startup, though not as much as the neutral, just enough time for you to decide on which gas you shoot out. Forward is ice, up is slow down, and down is inverse controls. Ice is the second fastest and would of course freeze the opponent. Red is the slowest, and cannot hit an opponent that is already enduring it's effects. Inverse controls is the fastest.
Down special is invisibility. K. Rool gives up his ability to shield and dodge in exchange for invisibility, and no particles following him around. Getting hit or pressing down B would of course uncloak him.
Up special is the helicopter backpack. It is the reverse of DK's recovery, in that it has great vertical recovery, but terrible horizontal recovery. Kinda like Snake. The blades do damage, of course.
His jab combo would be two claw swipes, followed by a bite. Good knockback on the third hit.
His side tilt would be him butting the opponent with his blunderbuss. Sends them stumbling.
His down tilt is him whacking the opponent with a kredit. Pops them in the air
His up tilt is him taking his crown off and waving it above him.
Dash attack is him propelling himself with his blunderbuss.
NAir is him flailing his limbs in a panic. Good combo breaker.
His FAir is him holding a klaptrao out, allowing it to take a few bites at the opponent. Good for combos.
His BAir is him pointing the blunderbuss behind him, and making a small cannonball shot. A great killing move.
His UAir is him throwing a boxing glove upward. Not good for killing, but does nice damage.
His DAir is him dropping an exploding barrel a short distance. Great killing move.
His side smash is him throwing his crown a short distance, and it coming back. Any of those who are hit are dragged back with it, allowing him to follow up with a combo.
Down smash is K. Rool placing down two orbs that surround him, that then roll away from him of he holds down the smash attack. The longer the hold, the farther apart they are. Poles then shoot out from under them, and an arc of electricity forms between them, with heavy knockback.
Up smash is K. Rool uppercutting his opponent with a boxing gloved hand. Also, great knockback.
Grab is a rope coming down from the sky, and wrapping around the opponent.
Pummel is K. Rool shooting the opponent point blank with his blunderbuss.
Forward throw is him sucking in the opponent with his blunderbuss, and spewing them out.
Back throw is him throwing the opponent behind him, then shooting them with a spiked cannonball. A kill throw.
Down throw is him throwing the opponent under him, then stomping on them.
Up throw is him holding them up, then pressing an electric orb on them.
Final Smash is the Blast-O-Matic. King K. Rool leaps off screen and into K. Rool isle. He maniacally laughs as the final Smash then works similar to Zero Suit Samus's final smash, except the beam is constant.
Idle animation one is him standing still, with his hands and eyes slightly twitching.
Idle animation two is him turning his body towards the screen, though he keeps his head turned towards the enemy. He hunches over, and maniacally taps his fingers together.
Idle animation three is him looking around, before adjusting his crown and looking back at the opponent.
Crouch is him playing dead.
Helpless animation is him falling face first downward like in DKC2 when he plummeted to his supposed death.
Taunt 1 is him doing his "Yeah! Yeah! Thank you!"
Taunt 2 is him holding his blunderbuss up proudly, only for a cannonball to drop in and for it to explode on him.
Taunt 3 is him accidentally electrocuting himself with his electric orb.
Entrance is a curtain opening, revealing him.
Victory animation 1 is him sitting on his chair, laughing maniacally.
Victory animation 2 is him with his arms folded as KAOS arrives behind him.
Victory animation 3 is him holding onto the Kremling Looter rope ladder by one arm, swaying with the wind.
Loss animation is him staring at the player while shaking his fist at them.
 
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FalKoopa

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I mean if we are talking about the same Goku here, I'm down.
The one from Yuyuki, is this joke old yet?
This joke is as old as speculation itself.

Since I'm on the subject, I have to ask this thread, how would you feel it K. Rool adopted the "Pirate King" persona and ran with it, making it his default appearance with the Kremling Krew literally being a crocodile pirate crew in a new DKC Returns game? Would you rather he stick to his more well known King persona with Kremling themes just sorta all over the place? I can't imagine people wanting Roolenstein to come back since that sorta just copies off of Dr. Eggman, Dr. Wiley, and Dr. Neo Cortex in the evil video game scientist department.

Plenty of others want him to have a new persona entirely. Stalin K. Rool and Sheriff K. Rool being two thrown around a lot.

Dread pirate king is something that really isn't in Nintendo already, sans Captain Syrup who is as forgotten as Wario Land in general is. They sorta dabbled at it in Wind Waker. Then you have the almost-pirates (aka Vikings) in the Snowmads. What I'd do to see a DKCR3 where there is a 3 way war between the Kremling pirates, Snowmad vikings, and the Kongs (the Tikis just don't have the same clout or charisma as the other two in my eyes and are generally widely panned).

Risky Boots doesn't count, she's not a Nintendo IP. Though she just reminds me of a purple skinned Captain Syrup anyway at least in aesthetics. But this is about K. Rool the Pirate King and the Dread of the Seven Seas!

Edit: I took a look at the nominations thread and K. Rool retained Number 2 in Top 10 Chance, but dropped from Number 1 to 2 in Top 10 Want behind Wolf, simply because quite a few absolutely did not want him, which is fine, because not everyone has to like him, but I was worried K. Rool would drop much more significantly so I'm pleased he's still the highest voted in Chance and Want as far as Newcomers go (second only to Wolf in both, which is the real "shoe-in" everyone's expecting which would leave people gasping for air if he is skipped over, myself included).
I would like it. His Kaptain persona is arguably the most popular, and I also like it because nicely compliments the Viking-based Snowmads. The Kremling Krew designs used in DKC2 were also the most imaginative, imo.

I'd kill for a Kommunist K. Яool though. It's rare to be able to make a political joke in a Nintendo game. :p

:231:
 
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