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K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: PM BKupa666 for an Invite to the New K. Rool Thread

Bedoop

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I just had the most perfect Banana I have ever eaten in my life
Kudos to whoever "Chiquita" is composed of, you guys make good bananas. :drshrug:
 

Pakky

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I'm a consumer buying his products.
This is the response of an adult, good work. Money is always a factor, this isn't a game of picking crayons out of a box. People's hard earned money is at stake, ignoring this concept is foolish. Am I mocking Sakurai? No, I too am a artist and criticism is a bit hard to deal with sometimes, however the person paying for your product in reality could care less about the creator's (your) feelings. Which is sad, but it's a reality one has to go through, especially when money is on the table.
 
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BKupa666

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Sakurai is due a ton of respect, especially for his self-destructive work ethic. However, there's a very simple principle of cause and effect in some situations where he probably feels "sad." You take Ridley and make him a boss despite his support, and give a glorified "too big" as justification for your "vision"? Fans ain't gonna be happy. You add random tripping to "level the playing field" between players of different skill levels? People ain't gonna be happy.

It's tough, because you have legitimate complaints lumped in with genuinely stupid or uninformed ones, like "clones took my character's spot," which makes people completely shut down all criticism toward the guy in general. In general, credit must be given where credit is due, and the same goes for criticism. You can't be balanced while having one without the other.

And let me tell you, if tomorrow's Famitsu scans come out with a justification from him on no K. Rool, he had better be prepared for a lot of fans in here to not appreciate that "vision."
 
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Bedoop

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I've noticed alot of people complain about Airdodging and how it should be like Melee's
And people who complain about Melee's Airdodging and how it should stay like Brawl's
But I honestly want a mix of both
Make the first Air Dodge be like Melee's, where you move a bit in a certain direction and stay there for a bit, and then every air dodge after that is like Brawl/SM4SH's where it doesn't move you and you still fall
But I ain't gonna yap about what Sakurai should change, I like whatever he likes.
Except no Kamek.
That I'm still salty about inside. :drshrug:

Let's not start a debate please.
Brilliant idea.
Here's a subject.


Sakurai is due a ton of respect, especially for his self-destructive work ethic.
^This
 

Morbi

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Sakurai is due a ton of respect, especially for his self-destructive work ethic. However, there's a very simple principle of cause and effect in some situations where he probably feels "sad." You take Ridley and make him a boss despite his support, and give a glorified "too big" as justification for your "vision"? Fans ain't gonna be happy. You add random tripping to "level the playing field" between players of different skill levels? People ain't gonna be happy.

It's tough, because you have legitimate complaints lumped in with genuinely stupid or uninformed ones, like "clones took my character's spot," which makes people completely shut down all criticism toward the guy in general. In general, credit must be given where credit is due, and the same goes for criticism. You can't be balanced while having one without the other.

And let me tell you, if tomorrow's Famitsu scans come out with a justification from him on no K. Rool, he had better be prepared for a lot of fans in here to not appreciate that "vision."
I do agree with your sentiment; however, I honestly, under this hypothetical scenario, want to read his justification before I decide to not appreciate his creative vision. Perhaps he has an extremely good reason? Doubtful, but I am not going to have a knee-jerk reaction.

I can respect a different opinion if it is well informed, for instance. But if he asserts that King K. Rool is not relevant enough or something, I am probably not going to be too happy.
 

InASnowBoundLand

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It can be hurtful to read criticism, regardless of your accomplishments. Even if you are mostly praised, negative comments can still irritate your self esteem. When you truly put yourself into work, negativity sometimes feels like a vote on your worth as a creator (or even a person).

For video game development, the years-long time investment probably compounds the burn from critical comments. It doesn't help that criticism among gamers is sometimes unnecessarily fiery. Some commentators behave as if video game development -- and creative work in general -- are humanless tasks. But while the person delivering the vitriol may not realize it, there are real people on the receiving end. People who put years of work into trying to deliver, in most cases, the best product possible. I empathize with Sakurai in that respect.

At the same time, criticism is an inevitability, especially if your creative work is a product you are selling commercially. Just because you put your all into something, just because you took years to make it, and just because you care about the community you are making the product for, doesn't mean your product will please everyone. It doesn't mean your decisions are particularly good or your product isn't underwhelming, either. You can appreciate the work that went into something while still finding it mostly disappointing.

If the criticism is arguable and the delivery is sensibly polite, I hope Sakurai can accept it, even if he disagrees. If the criticisms are poor or tastelessly communicated, the only people who should suck it up are critics responsible for these type of comments. For Sakurai and his team's own health, I hope they can detach themselves from these latter comments. Some people are relentless jerks. They aren't worth his time.

But others complaints are justified -- I hope he listens. If he doesn't, fans are right to complain, even if it might sting to read them.
 

CaptainAmerica

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Sakurai is due a ton of respect, especially for his self-destructive work ethic. However, there's a very simple principle of cause and effect in some situations where he probably feels "sad." You take Ridley and make him a boss despite his support, and give a glorified "too big" as justification for your "vision"? Fans ain't gonna be happy.
Nicely put. It also didn't help that they did try to keep everyone in the dark for the Ridley fiasco as well. When assists like Takamaru or Prince Sablé (both of which I'd honestly never heard of before) were announced, Nintendo or Sakurai immediately and clearly pointed out that they were indeed assist characters. I remember wondering how anyone could have assumed Prince Sablé was a full character, but Sakurai still reposted to clarify. Ridley got a shadow and a few passing mentions - sure some people saw how 'obvious' it was that Ridley was a boss, but there was confusion and it was not clarified.

I fear that K.Rool is getting the same treatment. We're grasping at straws trying to make K.Rool special, but now there's confusion. And nothing is officially clarified. This is a poor practice, and this is why people rage. If we get transparency, we won't rage as much.

And calling your fans 'babies' since they were left in the dark for a year and still are waiting for their rather important villain after 14 years is also not cool.

I'm not going to go hating Sakurai, but I think some of the decisions he's made in terms of Ridley, K.Rool, and Ganondorf are pretty questionable. Particulary when you look at his reasons for discounting Ridley but not giving the Dorf a canon moveset. But I think he's made some great decisions as well. DHD was one of the left-field characters that showed in a few 'wishful' rosters, and I loved the idea. When it was true...what an awesome thing! DLC is an awesome idea, especially getting back retro stuff.

But he may need to take a step back for a bit, for his own health. I get that he wants to be in control, but his body is protesting - someone else can help, that's what the team is for...
 
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Raxxel

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... You know what would be an extremely ironic reason for K. Rool to not be in Smash? Too much moveset potential. Sakurai had too many options to work with, and decided that he wouldn't be able to represent him properly with how many things he would have to leave out. I don't think that will be the case... But it's Sakurai.
 

Skyblade12

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Sakurai is due a ton of respect, especially for his self-destructive work ethic. However, there's a very simple principle of cause and effect in some situations where he probably feels "sad." You take Ridley and make him a boss despite his support, and give a glorified "too big" as justification for your "vision"? Fans ain't gonna be happy. You add random tripping to "level the playing field" between players of different skill levels? People ain't gonna be happy.

It's tough, because you have legitimate complaints lumped in with genuinely stupid or uninformed ones, like "clones took my character's spot," which makes people completely shut down all criticism toward the guy in general. In general, credit must be given where credit is due, and the same goes for criticism. You can't be balanced while having one without the other.

And let me tell you, if tomorrow's Famitsu scans come out with a justification from him on no K. Rool, he had better be prepared for a lot of fans in here to not appreciate that "vision."
I can never keep track of the Famitsu schedule. Are we getting more news tomorrow?
 

Morbi

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... You know what would be an extremely ironic reason for K. Rool to not be in Smash? Too much moveset potential. Sakurai had too many options to work with, and decided that he wouldn't be able to represent him properly with how many things he would have to leave out. I don't think that will be the case... But it's Sakurai.
I would personally accept that as a reason to be honest. If I was the creative director of Smash, I would have NO clue how to properly represent King K. Rool and make all of his fans happy. Conversely, that is obviously the allure of King K. Rool and therefore not an entirely good reason.
 

BKupa666

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Famitsu releases on Friday, but typically has its scans come out two days before on Wednesday.

I don't know what sort of "really well-reasoned reason" Sakurai could give for leaving out K. Rool. Not interesting? Irrelevant? Too big? I preferred other characters despite claiming to be aiming for fanservice? Criticizing stuff of that caliber isn't kneejerk by any stretch of the imagination; that label applies to the team if they legitimately used those reasons to dismiss the character. The only remotely possible thing I could think of would be "we want to be able to do him justice with the resources of a full team" or something, and even then, they made a character as complex as Ryu with a smaller team.
 

Morbi

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Famitsu releases on Friday, but typically has its scans come out two days before on Wednesday.

I don't know what sort of "really well-reasoned reason" Sakurai could give for leaving out K. Rool. Not interesting? Irrelevant? Too big? I preferred other characters despite claiming to be aiming for fanservice? Criticizing stuff of that caliber isn't kneejerk by any stretch of the imagination; that label applies to the team if they legitimately used those reasons to dismiss the character. The only remotely possible thing I could think of would be "we want to be able to do him justice with the resources of a full team" or something, and even then, they made a character as complex as Ryu with a smaller team.
I was just speaking in regard to myself. I am not personally going to have a knee-jerk reaction based on what he says and if he supports his claim, I have no reason to disdain his reasoning. The notion is, as usual, subjective. I have no problem with other people criticizing his reasons and I have no doubt that they interpret "knee-jerk" differently from I. Basically, I am just being open about it. I have not thought of all of the possibilities.
 

Pakky

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You take Ridley and make him a boss despite his support, and give a glorified "too big" as justification for your "vision"? Fans ain't gonna be happy.


And let me tell you, if tomorrow's Famitsu scans come out with a justification from him on no K. Rool, he had better be prepared for a lot of fans in here to not appreciate that "vision."
Let's not forget the reasoning of Ridley's flying being a problem, even though a good 10% of the cast can "fly" (Including a Pokemon that is a flying type...) or levitate and they have no problem being "portrayed accurately" .

Also um, yeah if there's some nonsense about King K, being better suited as well... a suit; I'm done with smash for a bit. Thank you for Mewtwo and the rest but if you're going to keeping feeding me tall tales I'm not going to hear it.
 
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Pakky

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Regardless, whether or not we get K. Rool this time, we must at least send a thank you for giving him the attention when all is said and done.
See, here's the thing, when someone dangles a dollar in front of you only for them to snatch it away and punch you in the nuts, you get pretty unkind and don't feel like thanking them for it.
 

CelerinaTheJackrabbit

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Sounds great! I also checked out some of your other work.

I really enjoyed Metal Harbor, the Paper Mario title screen/file select theme, Corneria, and K.K. Condor.

Good stuff.
Oh gosh that old stuff? Really? Well, alright, I guess.

I mean, I had to start SOMEWHERE but y'know. I guess I just look back on my older works and go just, like, 'What was I even doing.'
 

Cyberguy64

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The thing that bugs me the most is that people act like Sakurai's word is on par that of God, and when people criticize his decisions or tendencies in any way, they get excommunicated or are declared heretics for daring to question His Eminence.

I am very annoyed with the Smash 4 roster. There's a lot of good in it, but there's a lot of stupid too. I'm annoyed by the way Sakurai made/loved franchises take center stage for 4. I'm annoyed by the fact that he keeps trying to fix things that aren't broken, and leaves broken things that need to be fixed. I'm VERY annoyed by his double talk, saying one thing one minute and completely contradicting himself the next.

I honestly think that he's not the man to keep helming this series. But when I say that, I get accused of being a Ridley loving (Guilty as charged) fanboy who can't be pleased and I should just shut up and take what Papa Sakurai gives me.

I bought this game with my money. TWICE (Stupid 3DS millstone around the Wii U's potential....) I have the right to point out it's flaws, especially repeat offenders. And when these repeat offenders are directly tied to the director's personal bias....

I can respect Sakurai for what he's done in the past, but I can't put him on an immutable pedestal. Especially when he acts like a fourteen year-old Deviantart user when his work is criticized. (Seriously, he's starting to sound like Andrew Dobson with all the "Why won't people unquestionably love my work!?")
 

Pazzo.

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Sakurai doesn't demand we love his work.

He asks us to understand his reasoning. If he provides good reasoning, I'm happy, and we should be too.
If it's bad reasoning, we have warrant to be upset. We do not have the rest of the game and/or Sakurai based alone on what he says about K.Rool.

I know everyone here has brains. Let's use them in order to avoid another Ridley meltdown.

Please.
 
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SirJuicius

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K. Rool needs a proper way to distinguish himself from the rest of the cast.

So what are some Concept ideas?
Ferocious Speedster?
Tricky Heavyweight?
This is a fairly easy question to answer... What you have in the super heavyweight class is Ganondorf, Bowser, King Dedede, Charizard and Donkey Kong. Whether you think these descriptions are accurate or not... Ganondorf is sheer power, Bowser has good defensive moves that help him become a good floor general and defensive specialist, Dedede has a penchant for being in the air, Charizard has speed and Donkey Kong is kind of all-around, but is the king of off-stage KOs, specifically meteor smashes.

King K. Rool would undoubtedly be in the same weight class as those I just mentioned, and what he brings to the table is something the super heavyweights don't have and have needed: a projectile-based character. You have the blunderbuss projectiles, regular cannon balls, maybe some seaweed that pops out of the blunderbuss (the "tripping moment" if you will). You've got the crown and the boxing gloves as well. Another way in which he could help the cast is by being a mobile heavyweight, which may be a hard sell, considering he's been depicted as slow.

But with the blunderbuss able to move him from side to side and his super high jump, or even his helicopter pack, making K. Rool mobile wouldn't be too farfecthed.
 

TheGalaxyKnight

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K Rool's costume was really off setting. I do believe that he is just being "milked" right now. Have people spend $1 on a costume, plus an additional $4 for the full fledged character(mabey 5 if he comes with a stage). All we can do is hope.
Sakurai is due a ton of respect, especially for his self-destructive work ethic. However, there's a very simple principle of cause and effect in some situations where he probably feels "sad." You take Ridley and make him a boss despite his support, and give a glorified "too big" as justification for your "vision"? Fans ain't gonna be happy. You add random tripping to "level the playing field" between players of different skill levels? People ain't gonna be happy.

It's tough, because you have legitimate complaints lumped in with genuinely stupid or uninformed ones, like "clones took my character's spot," which makes people completely shut down all criticism toward the guy in general. In general, credit must be given where credit is due, and the same goes for criticism. You can't be balanced while having one without the other.

And let me tell you, if tomorrow's Famitsu scans come out with a justification from him on no K. Rool, he had better be prepared for a lot of fans in here to not appreciate that "vision."
Yea. The reasoning behind Ridley's exclusion was plain stupid. K Rool & Ridley are my top votes. And according to a somewhat reliable source, I learned that K Rool is the number 1 most requested charcter, and Ridley is tied for 3rd (with paper mario).
 

Bedoop

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I'm annoyed by the way Sakurai made/loved franchises take center stage for 4.
If by those you mean Kid Icarus and Kirby

Kid Icarus I definitely agree with
But Kirby
Heeeeelll no
Kirby has been down in the dumps with Smash 4
No new characters at all
Only 1 new stage per game (Excluding Halberd and Dream Land 64)
Not really any Smash Run enemies to begin with (Not even a Gordo, man)

Kirbs definitely isn't in the spotlight.
 

dangeraaron10

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To be fair, I did encounter a floating Gordo in one of my latest Smash Runs.

Spoilered my Smash 4 rant

Anyway, I commend Sakurai, his work ethic, and his commitment to this series. He's truly one of the greats.

But there are aspects of this particular game that rub me the wrong way. Putting characters aside, I really do not care for some of the decisions that went into the game's modes for example. Smash Tour, the widely panned Mario Party esk mini game, feels like a waste of resources to me. Smash Run should have been way more customizable than it was, hiding a lot of iconic battle rulesets behind complete randomization and the inability to pick and choose other than music. I think Master and Crazy Orders could have been made into a more coherent Smash Tower type deal, with ascending levels with increasingly difficult challenges but better rewards that you can stop and come back to. I feel the ball was dropped COMPLETELY on Smash U's classic mode. This mode isn't classic in the slightest. I miss Adventure Mode, even in the vain of Melee rather than the massiveness that was Subspace Emissary though I thoroughly enjoyed that mode.

But the rest of the game was pretty great in my eyes. The changes I'd make, however, would be a CLASSIC classic mode, an adventure mode, creating a Smash Tower mode to replace Master/Crazy orders, delete Smash Tour from existence, splice up Smash Run or at least make it more customizable so it actually has some replayability, and go ahead and make menu navigation less of a mess.

And I'd also give Stage Builder a much needed boost in customization, even if I appreciate the ability to hand draw the stage's foundation.

I guess this is why Brawl is still my favorite iteration of Smash. Tripping placed aside, and maybe in need of faster gameplay, it was among my favorite games, and my favorite Wii game.

Really, just give me Brawl with Smash 4's cast and I need nothing more in a Smash game. No, I don't even care for 8 player smash. On paper this sounds absolutely amazing and is a technological feat, but Smash doesn't seem to lend itself to such a clusterfeck. I played the mode only a few times before I focused more on 2s, 3s, and 4s.

I'd also delete Mii Fighters from existence. Because **** them. Waste of resources on 3 movesets for a Mii when that could have been 3 more iconic Nintendo characters.

I also want to destroy Equipment. I don't like it in the slightest and it adds nothing.

I like customs though. Keep the customs.

Also, if you want cheap DLC and if Miis didn't exist, there's always the beauty of alternate skins: Chrom (Ike), Daisy (Peach), Dry Bowser (Bowser), Blood Falcon (Captain Falcon), and Ms. Pacman (Pacman) are just a few I could come up with.

Edit: Before anyone tells me "But those characters need their own movesets! Just using the movesets of similar looking ones isn't faithful to their original characters!"

Your argument is invalid so long as this guy exists: :4ganondorf:

This is much more of a massive list of criticisms for this game rather than towards Sakurai as an artist or a person however so it's only loosely related

I think a change in avatar is in order...
 
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Bedoop

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I also want to destroy Equipment. I don't like it in the slightest and it adds nothing.
It does add something
It adds a free "WIN" pass to Crazy Orders and Online Tournaments for :4mario:
Home Run Bat + Quick Batter + First Striker + Fast Fireball = Easy Win
Beat a 64-man tournament with that
Totally not broken m8s
 

SuperNintendoKid

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I'd also delete Mii Fighters from existence. Because **** them. Waste of resources on 3 movesets for a Mii when that could have been 3 more iconic Nintendo characters.
I think the Miis are fine.

They aren't what I expected from them, but they were better than I expected.

Also they are 3 different characters essentially, just in one slot like Pokemon Trainer.

And you can make anyone you want: did your character not get in? Just make a Mii of it as a best case scenario.
 
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StormC

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If by those you mean Kid Icarus and Kirby

Kid Icarus I definitely agree with
But Kirby
Heeeeelll no
Kirby has been down in the dumps with Smash 4
No new characters at all
Only 1 new stage per game (Excluding Halberd and Dream Land 64)
Not really any Smash Run enemies to begin with (Not even a Gordo, man)

Kirbs definitely isn't in the spotlight.
I assume he means Fire Emblem and Kid Icarus. Personally, it's a sore spot for me that longtime franchises like Star Fox, Metroid and Donkey Kong had to settle for a Melee stage a third time around for the 3DS version instead new stages.
 

dangeraaron10

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I assume he means Fire Emblem and Kid Icarus. Personally, it's a sore spot for me that longtime franchises like Star Fox, Metroid and Donkey Kong had to settle for a Melee stage a third time around for the 3DS version instead new stages.
Star Fox, Metroid, and Donkey Kong are starting to feel like the ******* children of Smash for some people. The reason I bring up those three in particular because they're still among the more popular IPs alongside Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda, yet don't really receive much in the way of new stuff.

Jungle Hijinks is great, Pyrosphere is a painful reminder of what could have been, and Orbital Gate is just too chaotic for my tastes where it feels like the objective is to avoid dying on the stage as opposed to fighting the enemy.
 

SleuthMechanism

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The thing that bugs me the most is that people act like Sakurai's word is on par that of God, and when people criticize his decisions or tendencies in any way, they get excommunicated or are declared heretics for daring to question His Eminence.

I am very annoyed with the Smash 4 roster. There's a lot of good in it, but there's a lot of stupid too. I'm annoyed by the way Sakurai made/loved franchises take center stage for 4. I'm annoyed by the fact that he keeps trying to fix things that aren't broken, and leaves broken things that need to be fixed. I'm VERY annoyed by his double talk, saying one thing one minute and completely contradicting himself the next.

I honestly think that he's not the man to keep helming this series. But when I say that, I get accused of being a Ridley loving (Guilty as charged) fanboy who can't be pleased and I should just shut up and take what Papa Sakurai gives me.

I bought this game with my money. TWICE (Stupid 3DS millstone around the Wii U's potential....) I have the right to point out it's flaws, especially repeat offenders. And when these repeat offenders are directly tied to the director's personal bias....

I can respect Sakurai for what he's done in the past, but I can't put him on an immutable pedestal. Especially when he acts like a fourteen year-old Deviantart user when his work is criticized. (Seriously, he's starting to sound like Andrew Dobson with all the "Why won't people unquestionably love my work!?")
Seriously. can't stand getting labeled as a "melee-purist" whenever i criticize the flaws in this game(of which there are several but i won't go on here) or the way he handles things as a director, creator, and professional in general.Yes, sakurai has done many great things in the past and his dedication is truly admirable but that doesn't mean everything the man does or touches is instant gold that should be praised or worship or that he infact does not have his share of flaws or stubbornly bull-headed views on things. Not every captain can keep steering a good ship well forever and i honestly think sakurai's a tad out of touch these days but, that's just my view.
 
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D

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This entire thing is nothing but a slippery slope to me, especially over an article that may or may not have been interpreted correctly (even noted by the author himself).

I'm staying out of this.

EDIT: Misread the author's statement, but this is still too much of a slippery slope to where I'm not willing to play a role in this set of argumentation.
 
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StormC

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Seriously. can't stand getting labeled as a "melee-purist" whenever i criticize the flaws in this game(of which there are several but i won't go on here) or the way he handles things as a director, creator, and professional in general.Yes, sakurai has done many great things in the past and his dedication is truly admirable but that doesn't mean everything the man does or touches is instant gold that should be praised or worship or that he infact does not have his share of flaws or stubbornly bull-headed views on things. Not every captain can keep steering a good ship well forever and i honestly think sakurai's a tad out of touch these days but, that's just my view.
I had a dude tell me to go back to play Melee because I was initially upset that the K. Rool costume might have deconfirmed him.

It doesn't even make sense. I can't play as K. Rool in Melee, either. :alien:
 

Furret24

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I had a dude tell me to go back to play Melee because I was initially upset that the K. Rool costume might have deconfirmed him.

It doesn't even make sense. I can't play as K. Rool in Melee, either. :alien:
Isn't that the most overused retort in all of Smash history, even when it doesn't make any sort of sense?
 

KawaiiPiranha

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With all due respect to Sakurai, because there's plenty due, he is a grown man in his 40s with over two decades of experience making video games. He is one of the most respected and critically acclaimed developers in the industry, easy.

He shouldn't be so sensitive about what a few people on the internet say about his games. He is providing a service we are paying for; unreasonable or otherwise, consumers will criticize you. Suck it up.
That's one thing I've always disliked about Sakurai.
You NEVER hear other game developers talk about how much a series is "killing them". Sakurai sounds like making Smash Bros is literally torture. He acts like he's murdering himself to create these games out of the kindness of his heart.

Sakurai probably receives a damn huge paycheck for all the **** he does, so he either needs to quit making video games, or stop with his whining, because that's what it is- whining.

I have a ton of respect for the guy because he's made some of my favorite video games of all time, but it seems like every time he's interviewed all he does is cry about how hard things are for him. It's not like he's doing this for free.

If making Smash Bros is too stressful, stop making Smash Bros. Let someone else handle it.
If you enjoy making Smash Bros and want to keep doing it, keep doing it but stop complaining.
If you want fans to stop criticizing your decisions, do things that the fans want.
 
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