• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Jungle Republic Mafia: To Clarify, the Werewolves Won The Game. Here Marks a New Age in Activity Reform.

KevinM

TB12 TB12 TB12
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
13,625
Location
Sickboi in the 401
Yet every time he starts with a vote on me he goes in a different direction and votes towards whatever the wagon is to help hammer. Which if he thought I was so scummy, he should have stuck to his guts and vote always.

Yet on the brin wagon he first stuck a vote on pythag, then he jumped on the brin wagon to help hammer. Which we heard the reasons over and over, and I’m not saying they are bad.

But Kevin keeping a vote on me just for one out of two days, does not constitute him voting me the whole game or having eyes on me for it, when he put his vote day one on two other people. If I was such a strong scum read I should have been gone sooner based on this logic yet I was ignored so that other players could be pushed towards that direction until it was convienent that someone else wanted to start the wagon on me
Day one is irrelevant, that wasn’t me having my vote on you and I’d stand by vote on Brindoor a million times over.

Once again though you’re misrepresenting yesterDay. I called Lore a free bingo space a majority of that day and pledged that if needed I would hammer that wagon accordingly. However I was willing to go after your slot because I was thoroughly convinced you were anti-town. There has been no hopping of wagons for the last two Days of this game.

Give me a reads list of the current game just a list of the players in the game with one or two lines on why you think they are town or scum.
 

KevinM

TB12 TB12 TB12
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
13,625
Location
Sickboi in the 401
The first paragraph you wrote there is especially funny knowing I literally haven’t changed my vote off of your slot in like 96 hours. Since the first time I voted for you on D2 I’ve yet to get off your slot. Everyone of your arguments is refutable with fact. Also more importantly you haven’t actually actively tried to help us in anyway you’ve either lashed back on slots and OMGUS voted and then pulled back as other discussion generated or started a day like today throwing a vote on Raxxel and then instantly changing your tune as you were pressured again.
 

Z25

Pokemon Illusionist
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Messages
28,778
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
NNID
Zoroarkrules571
3DS FC
0533-5240-0946
considering my already worst possible scenario of town lynch/town dies

Raxxel becomes a slot that’s way harder to lynch just because you need to play scum or dumb.

RR stays right up near the top of my lynch pile most likely paired with Maven.

Rajam would be the third lynch candidate of those three.

I’m not advocating you get hammered tonight because we need actual input from

Raxxel Raxxel
#HBC | FrozeηFlame #HBC | FrozeηFlame
#HBC | Red Ryu #HBC | Red Ryu

About current events.

If we go into MYLO without letting those slots make stances we are setting ourselves up for a loss.

When you flip anti-town, I re-evaluate the game from there.
I’m alright with this outcome, I’ll say it’s a pretty fair take.
Day one is irrelevant, that wasn’t me having my vote on you and I’d stand by vote on Brindoor a million times over.

Once again though you’re misrepresenting yesterDay. I called Lore a free bingo space a majority of that day and pledged that if needed I would hammer that wagon accordingly. However I was willing to go after your slot because I was thoroughly convinced you were anti-town. There has been no hopping of wagons for the last two Days of this game.

Give me a reads list of the current game just a list of the players in the game with one or two lines on why you think they are town or scum.
Again i don’t have an issue in the brin scenario. I fully agree with the lynch, outside of the fact I would have saved them for latter, but it is what it is now.

I understand why I’m being viewed as anti town to some extent, but when it comes to viewing someone as anti town based on emotion or responding calmly or even angrily to a vote one them, and someone that flip good in opinion,

I always fail to see why people see it as scum in these games. Especially the former.

Any person scum or not are going ask why a vote is on them, even more so if it’s out of nowhere. A reaction to that is a perfectly normal one for the human psyche. I dislike like using emotions for that reason as it’s sort of just dumb. It’s like in really life if someone was upset by something that happened in relation To them, they aren’t going to look bad in that scenario as it’s a rational response. Yet every game I see this same excuse argued against me and I fail to see why it’s apart of mafia culture.

In relation to the later, when your in a game with mostly people you have never played with or barely played with and without multiple power roles, formatting a solid opinion of someone isn’t easy. Vanilla setups come down to straight up who’s lying or who’s honest with no good way to back one claim up over another. Which again in previous games I’m always formatting opinions, on what I think would be good town input but apparently that continues to never be good enough.

That whole rant aside as I just wanted those thoughts out there,

My scum And town list.

Town:

1)Pythag: I’ve liked their content overall. They have bought fair points of discussions even if some of them have been against me, I never felt scum intent from their actions. They seem to be actively hunting scum and have offered thoughts pretty in depth so far. I’d be pretty shocked if they are scum. This is the only person I’m fully confident is town.

Null: Frozen: they haven’t posted as much as everybody else and their content is ok. I don’t have much to say besides that. I haven’t hated it but it hasn’t given me anything to interesting to form an opinion around. They ideally should post more.

Scum:

Rajam: their huge spike in activity and posting combined with mostly poor thoughts against me imo, plus the random wagon by them, doesn’t make me read hem as town. There change in deanenor is not something I buy or trust.

Kevin: I’ve given my thoughts on you and I’ll admit for the most part I agree with your content surrounding the game as a whole. I’m sorry but my gut still isn’t telling your town. If I’m wrong, I’ll admit it. I’m at least glad you consistently post and have been active from the get go as this game really needed that.

Maven: betting maven is a WW. I’ve played a lot with them and they aren’t quiet unless they usually have something to hide. The days keep getting hammered too giving him the perfect excuse to only post once and when he wants and then fade anyway to the next day. I haven’t liked the slot at all. He also would have great incentive to kill Tom and Mac giving how much of a vet he is and how good he can be.

Rax: in a similar boat to maven. They’ve been purposely inactive, and that hammer yesterday is a big red flag imo. Also don’t like how quick they were to defend me giving how everyone else in the game was against me. Yeah they can in out of nowhere and tried to really start a bus in you. I would put money on this slot being the other WW. I’ve seen scum maven encourage inactivity awhile ago in a game and I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s at play here. Rax seems to really try to take the right opportunities to push an agenda though.

Obviously one of my scum reads is town or one of my town/null reads is scum as vice versa. If I was speaking more realistically despite my disappointment in being voted, I’d say the one my gut is wrong on is probably Kevin. But I’ve had similar happen and lost to games due to trusting those who I thought were scum so I get conflicted there.

That’s my basic rundown of things atm. As long as there’s no hammer I’ll answer whatever questions anyone wants. Don’t know if I’ll have much to say outside of responding to those though.




The first paragraph you wrote there is especially funny knowing I literally haven’t changed my vote off of your slot in like 96 hours. Since the first time I voted for you on D2 I’ve yet to get off your slot. Everyone of your arguments is refutable with fact. Also more importantly you haven’t actually actively tried to help us in anyway you’ve either lashed back on slots and OMGUS voted and then pulled back as other discussion generated or started a day like today throwing a vote on Raxxel and then instantly changing your tune as you were pressured again.
I’m not going to debate the former but I do want to comment on the later.

Imo I find myself at least trying to help town, even if many don’t see it that way. I’ve offered ideas on lynches, and tried to point out problems I had with posts the same as anyone else, but as usual I guess my content is considered **** no matter how much I try or think I’m doing to help town. I’m much better with power setups and can be a better help there. I’m not too great at vanilla it seems though, but whatever.

As for the last bit. I didn’t start with a vote in rax or change my tune.

I said rax should be the play, something you even seemed to agree with at the end of the day yesterday. But I never physically voted them. I wait to give people a chance to speak. Which so far they haven’t.

I also never changed my mind this phase. Much like how you pushed me to the side to discuss other lynch options, I pushed you to the side to what I thought were better ones today.

Which has throughout this phase primarily been rax and maven, with rajam a little bit down in priority. I’ll admit rajam kind of beat maven our for my second slot, but rax’s hammer and behavior puts them way above others in my mind. Maybe I didn’t convey it best but that’s what my thoughts are and have been today.
 

Z25

Pokemon Illusionist
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Messages
28,778
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
NNID
Zoroarkrules571
3DS FC
0533-5240-0946
I’m going to bed, please let the other slots way in before a hammer. Thanks
I’m going to be very intrigued to see if they even do or If they hammer like they have been doing
 

Raxxel

Hipster Heavyweight Champ
Joined
Jul 3, 2014
Messages
5,145
NNID
RaxxelAintHappy
3DS FC
2921-9637-8816
First, Mac being dead ****ing sucks. Only person I felt was 100% town and now they're gone. Them being 100% town is probably why they're dead but regardless it sucks.

That Lore lynch was a bit reckless, ngl. I skimmed the posts and thought I was reading prods for Lore to get lynched already. I also felt like we would get no conversation anyway with Lore still alive, so I put the nail in the coffin there and then so we could move on. Impatient move on my part. Sorry. We still netted ourselves a scum though so it's not an absolute loss.
 

Raxxel

Hipster Heavyweight Champ
Joined
Jul 3, 2014
Messages
5,145
NNID
RaxxelAintHappy
3DS FC
2921-9637-8816
Also Rajam has officially changed my mind on him. Solid scumhunting analysis.
 

Z25

Pokemon Illusionist
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Messages
28,778
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
NNID
Zoroarkrules571
3DS FC
0533-5240-0946
Z25 Z25 what about RR?
Huh I had him in my phone draft, I don’t know what happened.

Anyway I said I could see him on the scum and possibly killing Mac, but I honestly don’t believe he did. He would be a town lean for me, i would even go further and stay I’d probably thrown him in as full town if I had to make a straight choice.

He follows through each time to read the thread and contribute. I like his thoughts, and he’s been very open minded about seeing things from others perspective, such as his input on the WW being post. He wasn’t overly defending, thought about how he could be seen and offer good points.

He expressed dislike with lore’s content enough that upon the flip has me relatively confident he wasn’t teaming with lore Omar the very least.

Overall red is a solid slot in my honest opinion
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
27,486
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
NNID
RedRyu_Smash
3DS FC
0344-9312-3352
I'm open to reconsider my notes, specially the ones from the beginning of D1. But if I'm to believe all of them, then the possible scum teams are:

Mafia Team: Lore - Tom - ???

From my notes (#636), the 3rd mafioso can't be:
- Frozen
- KevinM
- Ryu
- Pythag?

So 3rd mafioso by PoE is either Maven, Raxxel or Z25

Werewolves Team: ??? - ???

Again, from my notes, the team can't be:
- Ryu / Raxxel
- KevinM / Pythag
- KevinM / Raxxel
- Maven / Frozen
- Z25 / Maven

So again by PoE, the WW team is one of this:
- Frozen / Ryu
- Frozen / KevinM
- Frozen / Pythag
- Frozen / Raxxel
- Frozen / Z25
- Ryu / KevinM
- Ryu / Maven
- Ryu / Pythag
- Ryu / Z25
- KevinM / Maven
- KevinM / Z25
- Maven / Pythag
- Maven / Raxxel
- Pythag / Raxxel
- Pythag / Z25
- Raxxel / Z25

Frozen is WW in 5 out of 16 possible teams
Ryu is WW in 5 out of 16 possible teams
KevinM is WW in 4 out of 16 possible teams
Maven is WW in 4 out of 16 possible teams
Pythag is WW in 5 out of 16 possible teams
Raxxel is WW in 4 out of 16 possible teams
Z25 is WW in 5 out of 16 possible teams

---

VOTE: Z25

Not only is he the most likely scum in the possible scenarios I run above, but also:
- His case on Mac in #270 stinks. In the 1st part, accuses him of considering ppl expendable... so what's Mac gonna do, not make people feel pressured? it's like a case against pressure itself. But what bugs me the most of this post are the end of 2nd + 3rd + 4th paragraphs:

'Sure you could argue that scum wouldn’t do this, but if you were hypothetically scum, defending your post after making it could at least result of some people trusting you more as townie.

Scum could also make that list and used that excuse to try and reverse psychology people. Just because it may seem like the wrong move to make as scum, doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be entertained as a little scummy.

People try different tactics all the time as scum, like that time nabe pretended to not be able to speak at all day one and then could magically talk the next day.'

This is the most ****tiest **** ever and I wonder how no one noticed it earlier. It's pure wifom: 'scum could do it, maybe not, but because scum could do it, ye shall be scum too!'. No. It doesn't correlate. scum can vote; would that make anyone who votes scum? It's trying to paint Mac scummy because he's doing stuff scum can do, but that doesn't actually mean Mac is scummy.

All this gets worse considering Z25 kept this reasoning to finally vote against Mac in his last D1 post

More stuff:
No vote against Mac in #270, votes on Mac were:
Mac (3): Brindor, Tom, Lore
Lore (2): Mac, Frozen
Tom (2): Maven, Raxxel

So, why not voting? Fear of being too obvious joining his scummates? Fear of going against obv town? Fear of distancing from Lore/Tom (both with only 1 less vote than Mac at that point) at a pivotal moment, and being too obvious maybe in case Lore / Tom flipped that Day?

ok call that a reach, I still think it's legit stuff to think about though. If anything look at the 1st part of my case

Before finishing though: Z25's #393 is more indecisive crap which at the end says nothing and seems like an excuse to go against ayone, either those who went against Brindor, or those who didn't:

'Tbh I’m not sure. I’ll say this, I really dislike the fast dogpile on brinoor. I get why, but it was also really obvious they were noobish due to being new. Sure they could have been scum, but if they were, they could have been pushed aside for a more active and capable target.'

So, was Brindor noobscum or noobtown? This part reads like: 'If you read Brindor as noobscum you were wrong, if you thought he was noobtown you were wrong, because it could've been any, but ya'll wrong'
Yeah this is Rajam when he gets his feet into the game.

Need to think more about my ending results for reads more. This and the previous posts fox the main issue of being a question mark issue I had.

Gonna sleep then wake up and focus on larger reads. I need to change minds on me. Or burn me like a bad furry.

Rajam Rajam i offered it as a if I had to pick someone to lynch between the two and offered my thoughts to rank them but did not find either likely scum at the time.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
27,486
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
NNID
RedRyu_Smash
3DS FC
0344-9312-3352
Right so back to Pythag,

Pythag has never taken a firm stance on anything all game and is riding off the crowd.

His early vote and stance on raxxel was not giving a firm stance. Giving every reason why it was A-ok to lynch raxxel as town or scum.

This is still gross to me, there is no getting his feet wet.

What more could you possibly be expecting?
A longer answer that's going to say the exact same thing?

Scum will never say they're scum
Werewolf won't say they're a werewolf
But a townie....
Then there is this rolefishing thing that keeps coming back to me.

What I expect from a player is a legitimate response, especially as early as this was. I want to get something moving to get the game started.

I want to get a bead and read on a player my way by talking with them and getting a response and feel for them.

Raxxel reacted poor to 1-2 votes, his only option is not a role claim or me fishing for one. I’m looking for tells so I can get a feel on the back and forth. This is how I get my feet in the game and figure people out.

Not to play WIFOM but do people legit think I was fishing? So I fish, he claims and I get lynched. Cool not worth it as a WW.

I was trying to get a bead on a player and gave a joking response to get him to talk with me. That’s it. Pythag has been sitting on this all game with zero attempts to read into anything else.

FF showin' up. Glad to see you man.



I definitely feel this. I'm thinking he's no long 10,000% town.
He doesn't seem to be leading charges.
He's writing a lot and almost going 'who's with me guys??'

This is all meta arguments but I agree it's really strange.


What do you make of Tom viewing the Lore V Mac situation almost exactly the opposite of you?
If this changes or where he stood, I learned nothing from this. He is not super 100% into kev at this point.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
27,486
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
NNID
RedRyu_Smash
3DS FC
0344-9312-3352
Looks newbie to me.



So what's your take on the Mac/Lore situation?


KevinM KevinM


I explained to Mac, and I'll say it again I didn't hop off solely for the wiki post, and to say it was only the case is disingenuous.
Raxxel had been looking better in my eyes with how he was interacting with other posts. He wants to play better. I don't think it was mafia teaching him mid game.
And it was new info. I knew the concept, I had never heard it not to be used for new players.
The argument can be made "yeah but that's how it looks" But it's not the case. It'll be "he said she said" and the actions of when my vote came off of Raxxel is the only black and white info, so it'll default to that.
I don't think I'll be able to convince you about that.

Lore:
(this is wifom) I think Lore is more meticulous and accomodating when he's scum. I don't think it's scum!Lore move to misread something like that. that'd be a really big scumslip that I just do not expect from him. His demeanor to me sounds town.
Biggest vibe

Mac:
I think Mac's activity also looks town. It's different than Summer Bash, where he was more sporadic, less sure. His posts read like scumhunting. Granted scumhunting != town in this game. But if I go down that route I'm never gonna think anyone is town ever, and it'll be a repeat of me last game.
Big Vibe

Maven :
You didn't ask, but I liked that Maven was right there on Red. Looked like he was seeing what I was seeing.
Vibing.

Tom :
Tom's the only one I'll give you. It may be I have him as towm because I want to think he's town. I'm open to rethinking that, but I would definitely need to see more (from him and others) to be convinced that he'd be the play for toDay.
Minimum vibe.
Reads like this, the Tom part makes me think.

Is Pythag more likely a mafia goon? Or is this justified?

Same with the Lore part. I read Mac v lore as tvt until the Tom flip.

This though is again, but never giving full commitment to something.

Still this would point more to a goon than a WW. An interaction like this gives me that vibe.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
27,486
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
NNID
RedRyu_Smash
3DS FC
0344-9312-3352
If I got an issue with KevMo it’s that when he did jump on slots, it was very much “let’s go #hbc” but not really getting an understanding of how he got to that.

When Marshy does this, I fully get where he is when he goes full hardbody. KevMo feels way more of a forced act. This is where my mIn distrust is coming from.

Still an underlying why, I get it at many points like Brindol but when he went on Lore he kind of just went for it just cause.

Still with the Mac stuff I see the trust people got for him.Let’s get on RR, lets get on z25.

He shuts of conversation many times and gets dismissive.

Part of it might be the “let’s go #hbc” thing vibe I got with him rereading day 1 and into day 2. But there are times like z25 where I see it cut off and then day 1 with let’s just do it where I miss the why I feel like.

Rambling on about a lot of stuff but it’s the only way I can get my thought process on the table during this full reread.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
27,486
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
NNID
RedRyu_Smash
3DS FC
0344-9312-3352
Big vibe or little vibe?
Big especially retreading day 1.

A lot of the reads he had and interactions makes me think mafia goon over WW.

I’m less interested in that lynch over a WW one but the more I read back. I am getting legit goon vibes.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
27,486
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
NNID
RedRyu_Smash
3DS FC
0344-9312-3352
Putting a pin on page 10, a lot of stuff makes me feel like Raxxel is town even with the quick hammer with how he opened up.

It more so looks like a slot who genuinely cares to figure this out on his own. Only thing that would get me to lynch is if I trusted other slots more but i’ll cross that bridge later.
 

KevinM

TB12 TB12 TB12
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
13,625
Location
Sickboi in the 401
RR for what it’s worth I think a lot of your points have merit and it’s why I disliked the slot so much on d1 but I didn’t have as much of a problem with how he played D2 and I think Z25 is our priority on D3.

Activity in this game is just letting anti-town win though.
 

Pythag

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
2,627
Location
Flux
So, according to RR :

This though is again, but never giving full commitment to something.
Pythag's wishy washy. He hasn't committed all game!

Pythag has been sitting on this all game with zero attempts to read into anything else.
Well except for committing to me, BUT, he hasn't tried to read into anything else.

QUOTE="#HBC | Red Ryu, post: 23513670, member: 119088"

He’s Only thinking to move on them when the ball was rolling on Lore.[/QUOTE]

Well, except for developing his read on Lore...and Mac....and his questioning of Z25, but look at THIS :

Then there is this rolefishing thing that keeps coming back to me.
You literally did the same **** I did and called it out as fishing wtf?!
But these situations are not equal. And I think if they had been, at least Maven would've jumped on me, since he's the other one upset at your early comment.

Raxxel had laid a super defensive statement with 'you will regret it', then defended himself with 'mafia will have more leverage on town' to which you THEN said "I need more"

Brindor had proven to be unwilling to talk:
I asked him why he voted for mac, and he said "Because I felt like it"
When people voted for him he said "Pls don't lynch me pls"
I think it's well within reason to say "convince me"

I don't know if it can be argued I said "I need more" because Brindor hadn't given ANYTHING yet.
I wanted him to give any meaningful input. If he was waiting for an invitation, I was trying to give it to him.
 

KevinM

TB12 TB12 TB12
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
13,625
Location
Sickboi in the 401
I think right now the game looks something along the lines of this

Z25 is lynched today, on scum flip I’ve really gotta reread this game and see if you and Z25 make sense or Pythag and Z25 makes sense.

Maven being the third mafia member is something Mac was a huge proponent of and I’m inclined to look there because he seemed to have a really good grasp on those slots and he was really thorough in his reasoning for the team.

FF I can’t see myself lynching at all. Rajam being more active would be a pretty hard sell for me to lynch as well, a lot of his thoughts about D1 plus his case on z25 ring true with how I’ve been approaching this game.

Raxxel being scum is like worst case scenario because I’ve just kept passing his slot as noob town and even if I hate to do it with MYLO possibly right around the corner I’m not coin flipping the game.
 

KevinM

TB12 TB12 TB12
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
13,625
Location
Sickboi in the 401
Rajam Rajam can you answer the question I posed to you on the last page and furthermore can you do even a quick ISO of RR V Pythag and where you lean?
 

Z25

Pokemon Illusionist
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Messages
28,778
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
NNID
Zoroarkrules571
3DS FC
0533-5240-0946
We can’t drag 4 people not playing the game to the finish line
This is something I’ve hated seeing in d games lately.

So many games have inactive players, and usually scum is at least one of them intentionally being inactive.

I really wish that could change as future games would be a lot better. It’s also why I’d honestly prefer an inactive lynch over most other lynches in an early game(unless someone active was really scrumming).

I just wish they went back to what they were, but I think when severs nintenzone users who kept the games alive, left things started to decline.

I’d also like to see future games held here have some sort of a penalty for inactives.

I just wanted to get that off my chest as the state of this section has kinda of bummed me out lately.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
27,486
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
NNID
RedRyu_Smash
3DS FC
0344-9312-3352
I still think z25’s reaction was bad on the initial page 11. I want to read how he posted over the course of the day. This initially did not come off as scummy but i wanna reread this defense he did.

But looking between Mac and KevinM I think the way they are playing off each other was a worry but I think they may have been reading each other as town. If I consider KevMo as town this works.

I need to read on.
 
Top Bottom