Jiggz Board Cleanup & Whatnot

[KayLo!]

Since you guys've gone without a dedicated mod for so long, it looks like things are a bit disorganized around here. This thread is where y'all can make suggestions for what you'd like to see changed/added/moved/etc.

Yeah, I know I mentioned all this in the social already, but a thread is easier for updates and stuff. =X

- new video + critique thread (Exn)
- new forum directory (KayLo!)
- de-sticky frame data
- new friend finder (Noobicidal)
- research thread?
- ...........tournament results thread? (I have a feeling this wouldn't work well here, just throwing it out as a thought.)

Feel free to volunteer if there's something on the list you'd like to do.

 

[Noobicidal]

I currently run the Ganondorf friend finder, so I'd have no issues in establishing another.

 

[KayLo!]

Sounds good. Whenever you make the new thread, I'll sticky it to replace the old one.

 

[EraOfGames]

Research thread...I'm not even sure where I would start with that.
It'd be nice if these boards become productive :]

 

[KayLo!]

A research thread would be a collection of all raw data concerning Jiggs, like frame data, hitbubble data, KO percentages, looking into new combos/ATs people come up with (although major ones could still get their own thread), and any kind of experiments people do with her moveset.

The Zeldas have an excellent one:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=218082

The Pikas have one that's.... a little less impressive but still shows the general idea:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244279

Kinda like a Smash Lab, only specific to Jigglypuff.

& yeah, I'm hoping this place'll get a bit more productive as well..... seems pretty dead. Can't be forced, but there's no harm in trying!

 

[wowoduend]

Research thread...I'm not even sure where I would start with that.
It'd be nice if these boards become productive :]

And more jiggz mains

 

[KayLo!]

New directory is done:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=269438

Exn and Noobicidal: how're your respective threads coming along? No rush, I'm just curious.

 

[*JuriHan*]

please delete the "my jigglypuff has risen from the dead" topic. All what it consists of is a user trolling/sexually harassing me and getting the law laid down with infractions. Also immature people give me **** about it. It's embarassing and its bad enough probly everyone here has read it already I asked two super mods to erase it and they ignored my request.

 

[KayLo!]

please delete the "my jigglypuff has risen from the dead" topic.

I don't see a thread with that title......

Spoiler

Done! =P

 

[Noobicidal]

Exn and Noobicidal: how're your respective threads coming along? No rush, I'm just curious.

I've been waiting for a response from a forum moderator to direct me to where the Ganondorf Friend finder was moved to. It was merged into a thread that I didn't create, so I'm not able to use the "Find all threads started by" action. I really liked the format that I used, so I'd prefer to use said thread as a model for the Jigglypuff one.

If I don't receive a response by tomorrow evening, I'll just create a new format. By no means have I forgotten or neglected the friend finder thread.

 

[*JuriHan*]

I don't see a thread with that title......

Spoiler

Done! =P

Thank you.

 

[Veril]

Kinda like a Smash Lab, only specific to Jigglypuff.

You guys really don't want anything like the actual "smashlab". The smashlab is the deadest thing ever.

As I've already said, the posted frame data for Jigglypuff isn't... bad per se but it is presented in a really confusing/obtuse manner in that total move duration includes hitlag (when straight hitlag, not hitlag differentials, don't influence adv windows and those are what total duration normally would help you calculate). It also has launch speed instead of useful bkb, ∂W bkb, and kbg. Much like with Pikachu and the Solo IC CGs not being discovered until a lot of testing was done, Jigglypuff has a lot of tricks, none of which even begin to approach the usefulness of a legit CG (except stalled bair combos and resting out of diddy's dash attack... I guess that is fairly useful). I took my thread down BECAUSE I DIDN'T THINK IT WOULD ACTUALLY HELP PEOPLE IMPROVE.

If I see some tourney results to suggest otherwise (from someone other than G-reg, who is basically THE vBrawl Jiggs atm, and who has several times made clear that 99% of Jiggs players won't get any better from knowing frame data)...

and there's no way I would work on a non-viable character in depth over working on B+. Cause getting adv formulas for bair at various stages of staleness across the cast would be work, a lot of it.


Anyway, just a little bit of info I have from working on B+ that might interest some of you: vBrawl Jigglypuff's moves with the "sakurai angle"
• Jab 1, Jab 2, Dash Attack, Ftilt, Fsmash , Nair, Fair, Bair

 

[KayLo!]

You guys really don't want anything like the actual "smashlab". The smashlab is the deadest thing ever.

As I've already said, the posted frame data for Jigglypuff isn't... bad per se but it is presented in a really confusing/obtuse manner in that total move duration includes hitlag (when straight hitlag, not hitlag differentials, don't influence adv windows and those are what total duration normally would help you calculate). It also has launch speed instead of useful bkb, ∂W bkb, and kbg. Much like with Pikachu and the Solo IC CGs not being discovered until a lot of testing was done, Jigglypuff has a lot of tricks, none of which even begin to approach the usefulness of a legit CG (except stalled bair combos and resting out of diddy's dash attack... I guess that is fairly useful). I took my thread down BECAUSE I DIDN'T THINK IT WOULD ACTUALLY HELP PEOPLE IMPROVE.

If I see some tourney results to suggest otherwise (from someone other than G-reg, who is basically THE vBrawl Jiggs atm, and who has several times made clear that 99% of Jiggs players won't get any better from knowing frame data)...

and there's no way I would work on a non-viable character in depth over working on B+. Cause getting adv formulas for bair at various stages of staleness across the cast would be work, a lot of it.


Anyway, just a little bit of info I have from working on B+ that might interest some of you: vBrawl Jigglypuff's moves with the "sakurai angle"
• Jab 1, Jab 2, Dash Attack, Ftilt, Fsmash , Nair, Fair, Bair

I've never seen the actual Smash Lab, so I wasn't really basing the idea off of the one for the general boards, lol. I was just trying to come up with a name that would accurately explain what I was going for.

As for your saying that frame data and related information won't help Jiggs players, I think that's a bit misleading. An example off the top of my head is Zelda: Zelda is a character with very few useful tricks, but without the research thread, things like her various autocanceled nair possibilities would've never been explored as thoroughly as they have been..... or it would've taken much, much longer.

Information is always good to have on hand, and there's no harm in leaving it up. You never know what might spark an idea or a new technique from someone, as some players are more technical than others. If you don't have the time to do it, that's fine; however, somebody else might be willing. Ultimately, it's up to the people who currently frequent this forum.

I saw your post in the frame data thread about the frame data being confusing, but unfortunately, it'll have to stay that way until someone has the time to redo it. I'll look into putting a note in the OP about it, though.

 

[*JuriHan*]

You guys really don't want anything like the actual "smashlab". The smashlab is the deadest thing ever.

As I've already said, the posted frame data for Jigglypuff isn't... bad per se but it is presented in a really confusing/obtuse manner in that total move duration includes hitlag (when straight hitlag, not hitlag differentials, don't influence adv windows and those are what total duration normally would help you calculate). It also has launch speed instead of useful bkb, ∂W bkb, and kbg. Much like with Pikachu and the Solo IC CGs not being discovered until a lot of testing was done, Jigglypuff has a lot of tricks, none of which even begin to approach the usefulness of a legit CG (except stalled bair combos and resting out of diddy's dash attack... I guess that is fairly useful). I took my thread down BECAUSE I DIDN'T THINK IT WOULD ACTUALLY HELP PEOPLE IMPROVE.

If I see some tourney results to suggest otherwise (from someone other than G-reg, who is basically THE vBrawl Jiggs atm, and who has several times made clear that 99% of Jiggs players won't get any better from knowing frame data)...

and there's no way I would work on a non-viable character in depth over working on B+. Cause getting adv formulas for bair at various stages of staleness across the cast would be work, a lot of it.


Anyway, just a little bit of info I have from working on B+ that might interest some of you: vBrawl Jigglypuff's moves with the "sakurai angle"
• Jab 1, Jab 2, Dash Attack, Ftilt, Fsmash , Nair, Fair, Bair

Veril do you even update the jigglypuff video thread anymore? If not you should let me take over.

 

[KayLo!]

Exn already volunteered to make a new video/critique thread, but if he doesn't get started on it in a reasonable amount of time, you can take it.

 

[Veril]

As for your saying that frame data and related information won't help Jiggs players, I think that's a bit misleading.

I'm speaking from the perspective of actually knowing her technical aspects extremely well and having discovered or at the very least explained the mechanics behind a small mountain of situational ATs. Jiggs data is interesting, and she does have a lot of cool tricks... but, like with Zelda, little potential to be anything but silly gimmicks.

Anyway, just a little bit of info I have from working on B+ that might interest some of you: vBrawl Jigglypuff's moves with the "sakurai angle"
• Jab 1, Jab 2, Dash Attack, Ftilt, Fsmash , Nair, Fair, Bair

That actually was an important bit of information. But without the technical knowledge nobody here has a clue what I mean, and tbh I don't want to spoon feed information to any more people than I already have to.



If there is a genuinely technically savvy vBrawl Jigglypuff who could do research like Alex or I had (and can convince me of this), they should seriously contact me and I can give them a small mountain of data. As it stands I am almost 100% positive that this mystery puff main does not exist unfortunately.

Veril do you even update the jigglypuff video thread anymore?

nope. None of my stickied threads have been updated in AGES. I posted about this a while back.

 

[KayLo!]

I'm speaking from the perspective of actually knowing her technical aspects extremely well and having discovered or at the very least explained the mechanics behind a small mountain of situational ATs. Jiggs data is interesting, and she does have a lot of cool tricks... but, like with Zelda, little potential to be anything but silly gimmicks.

In your opinion. =X

I'm not doubting that you know Jiggs and the Jiggs community well.... most likely you know them both better than I do. However, speaking from a very general standpoint, you never know who could find something useful out of what you've so far deemed useless.

And unless you share what you've found, it'll remain a mystery.

That actually was an important bit of information. But without the technical knowledge nobody here has a clue what I mean, and tbh I don't want to spoon feed information to any more people than I already have to.

If there is a genuinely technically savvy vBrawl Jigglypuff who could do research like Alex or I had (and can convince me of this), they should seriously contact me and I can give them a small mountain of data. As it stands I am almost 100% positive that this mystery puff main does not exist unfortunately.

I've never understood why people do this -- the whole, "Well, I have a bunch of data, but since nobody here seems worthy enough, I won't post it."

If you have the info, post it.
If you don't want to post it, fine, but that seems like a lot of wasted effort, and it's a bit silly to mention it in the first place if you're not going to deliver.

Anyways. That's my 2 cents on the matter.

 

[Veril]

I guess its understandable since you weren't here when I was super gung-ho about trying to improve Jiggs in any way possible.

Its not that "nobody here is worthy enough"... well sorta... its more that the amount of time someone would spend actually reading, understanding and applying what I have posted about extensively in the past would be much better spent going to tournaments or practicing the basics like learning to perfectly autocancel aerials, chain together stale bairs, etc.


Again, I just posted about the sakurai angles... and it doesn't matter at all. If people knew what that meant they would realize that this means ALL OF THOSE MOVES CAN TRIP prior to the point at which they would induce the tumble state. It also means the knockback angle steadily increases as % increases, acting as a sort of automatic "survival DI" notably with the f-smash, and that these moves have slightly greater than expected advantages than moves with static non-vertical knockback angles.

 

[KayLo!]

SNO, I'm going to message Exn about the video thread as a "last call" type of thing, and if he doesn't respond, you can take it over.

Noobicidal, did you ever get the format from your Ganon FF thread?

 

[Noobicidal]

Noobicidal, did you ever get the format from your Ganon FF thread?

Sadly, I never received a response about the matter. The moderator in question hasn't exactly been inactive by any means, either.

With that said, pardon my perpetual laziness. I'll get to work on it and have it up by tomorrow.

 

[KayLo!]

Fair enough..... whenever you get it done is fine. It's y'all's board, so it's up to you guys how much does or doesn't get done..... like I said, I'm just here to press buttons.

@SNO: Exn no longer has the time to manage the video thread, so the job's yours now. I can make you the owner of the current one, or you can make a new one that I'll sticky to replace the old one...... it's up to you. I recommend making an entirely new thread, though.

I also suggest that we make the new video thread a combination of video archive and critique thread. It's just neater that way, and there's really no need for them to be separate when there're so few Jiggs players.

 

[g-regulate]

i highly suggest you unlock my thread and sticky it immediately. im arguably the best jiggs player on here and my strats are awesome and make people better. I was always around to answer questions and give insight to everyone.

 

[Maniclysane]

I secon g-reg. His guide is way more up to date and has way more applicable information. I don't see why it's locked, especially when it's better than the guide we have now.

 

[KayLo!]

His "guide" is from January of last year (and hasn't been edited since)...... I wouldn't call that up-to-date.

It was locked because it was bumped from the second page with spam and trolling, and people continued to spam even after I gave a warning to stop bumping it for no reason.

SNO's guide is being actively updated and more closely fits the definition of a guide; however, g-reg's thread is very useful, which is why it's in the directory along with all the other useful-but-not-sticky-worthy threads.

His thread isn't a guide. It's a useful and insightful article.

If everyone and their grandmother really wants it stickied, I'll put it up, but imo, it's fine simply being in the directory. Regardless, it's gonna stay locked for a little while longer.

 

[Noobicidal]

I demand a sticky for the guide.

 

[GeneralWoodman]

if i wrote a guide on how to use jiggly in basic brawl, with detailed descriptions of the many "styles" of gameplay for each character you'll find in the mode....would you guys sticky it

 

[KayLo!]

-_-

Not to be rude, but now I know why nothing ever gets done around here.

I'm gonna make a final decision and say no sticky for g-reg's thread. If anybody has a serious counterargument for why it should be up there, feel free to post it here or PM me.

 

[Teh-Shlurpie]

what do you mean by a research thread.
specifics into jiggz the character or players, MUs? it is quite a broad subject

 

[KayLo!]

Jiggs-specific.

Similar to the Zeldas' Fairy Fountain research thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=218082

 

[#HBC | J]

sorry for the necroish thread bump x_x

I could get to work on a doubles thread for you guys ;D

I don't mind at all (it's actually very fun)

 

[KayLo!]

Sounds good! Make it whenever you feel like it, no rush.

 

[#HBC | J]

okay Kaylo ill get it done A.S.A.P.