Social Jigglypuff Social Thread (read first post!)

[MarioMeteor]

Who thought it was a good idea to give puff an insta popper?

Who thought it was a good idea to do any of the stuff they did with Jigglypuff?
Besides back air, I love them for that. And her crouch, the other day I was trolling the **** out of this Falcon by ducking under all of his attacks. He couldn't grab me, he couldn't forward smash me, he couldn't dash attack me, the only thing he could do was down tilt.

 

[Rioku]

it only does 65% of shields, with the new shield stun maybe a bit more. All shields last the same, some are just easier to poke the character through. It's only a insta break if they already have a worn down shield.

Nah we tested it out. It does insta break some shields with the new mechanics. After the hit they get stuck in shield stun until the thing pops. It's such a fun troll move now. I can't wait for the fun week in locals when we have a 4 v 4 tournament. I am so pulling out the shield busting puff there.

 

[Jiggly]

Nah we tested it out. It does insta break some shields with the new mechanics. After the hit they get stuck in shield stun until the thing pops. It's such a fun troll move now. I can't wait for the fun week in locals when we have a 4 v 4 tournament. I am so pulling out the shield busting puff there.

With the mechanics and how pound works, it's incorrect. All shields are the same size, it works by health, not size. Even though size is different, its only like that to prevent shield pokes. The health is all the same. If pound was a "instapopper", it would do it to everyone, which it doesnt. So no, it isn't. That is mechanically and logistically incorrect.

 

[Codaption]

But Jiggly! You're forgetting that the health of all shields were dramatically reduced, to the point where they had to nerf Marth's shield breaker so that it wouldn't pop them uncharged!

Unless I'm understanding you wrong and the shield damage done is locked in at doing set percentage of their max shield health as damage. Though I still fail to see how theory trumps practice with regards to the testing, unless they did something horribly wrong (and I don't see how you could screw up that much).

 

[MarioMeteor]

But Jiggly! You're forgetting that the health of all shields were dramatically reduced, to the point where they had to nerf Marth's shield breaker so that it wouldn't pop them uncharged!

Unless I'm understanding you wrong and the shield damage done is locked in at doing set percentage of their max shield health as damage. Though I still fail to see how theory trumps practice with regards to the testing, unless they did something horribly wrong (and I don't see how you could screw up that much).

Shield health was unchanged. Shields were naturally weaker than in prior games since Smash 4 came out, which is why you could imperfect shield a fully charged Shield Breaker in Brawl and not in Smash 4. Shield DAMAGE, on the other hand, was dramatically increased, which is why shields are easier to break.

 

[Rioku]

Though I still fail to see how theory trumps practice with regards to the testing, unless they did something horribly wrong (and I don't see how you could screw up that much).

It's possible we just messed up the timing some. Since as I mentioned some characters like Falco and Bowser didn't get popped in one go when we were testing. It might just bring a shield really close to breaking and that any prior shield drain will break it. Either way it worked in combat really well... then everybody figured out not to shield puff and stopped shielding me ;~;

 

[drakeirving]

if people stop shielding that is literally the best case scenario

 

[Codaption]

Shield health was unchanged. Shields were naturally weaker than in prior games since Smash 4 came out, which is why you could imperfect shield a fully charged Shield Breaker in Brawl and not in Smash 4. Shield DAMAGE, on the other hand, was dramatically increased, which is why shields are easier to break.

Shield health was majorly reduced on top of that in the latest patch. You could already shield an uncharged Shield Breaker without yours popping, though it still reduced it quite a hefty amount.

 

[Jiggly]

Shield health was majorly reduced on top of that in the latest patch. You could already shield an uncharged Shield Breaker without yours popping, though it still reduced it quite a hefty amount.

I haven't seen anything about shield health lowering, I think that's incorrect...

 

[MarioMeteor]

Shield health was majorly reduced on top of that in the latest patch. You could already shield an uncharged Shield Breaker without yours popping, though it still reduced it quite a hefty amount.

Fully charged, not uncharged, shield health was not touched. You can look at any source you want to. Shaya's patch notes, SmashWiki, they'll tell you the same. Even looking at it from a logical standpoint, you've already increased shield damage, if shield health was decreased as well you'd be breaking shields with jabs.

 

[Codaption]

Okay yeah, I just checked the patch notes and it says nothing about shield health. Could've sworn I'd heard that from somewhere, my bad.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Let this be a lesson people: don't trust everything you hear.

 

[drakeirving]

Reflex's testing shows an apparent 41~42 shield health, as 42% instantly broke a shield. This would mean that although shield health wasn't nerfed, it was simply always that low. This would clearly explain why a 9~10% hit and a Pound breaks shields (shieldstun itself certainly doesn't last that long), and I'm not sure why people haven't been questioning this number earlier.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Reflex's testing shows an apparent 41~42 shield health, as 42% instantly broke a shield. This would mean that although shield health wasn't nerfed, it was simply always that low. This would clearly explain why a 9~10% hit and a Pound breaks shields (shieldstun itself certainly doesn't last that long), and I'm not sure why people haven't been questioning this number earlier.

Yeah, that's what I said, shield health has been low since the game came out.
Fantasy time: what if Jigglypuff could crawl? She'd probably be broken.

 

[Jiggly]

New AT: I found out we are the lightest character in the game. This prob makes us top 10 OMG.

 

[MarioMeteor]

New AT: I found out we are the lightest character in the game. This prob makes us top 10 OMG.

We can jump 6 times, this game is so unbalanced, Jigglypuff needs a nerf.

 

[Jiggly]

We can jump 6 times, this game is so unbalanced, Jigglypuff needs a nerf.

plz sakurai

 

[Codaption]

We really do need a nerf, honestly. Our attacks have hitboxes on them, for crying out loud, hitboxes!

 

[Jiggly]

Who the **** was it that came up with the run-off-platform to sing cancel idea? I pulled it off successfully today randomily due to instinct. I think I might reveal it to the public soon as a thing, and try to see if puff can potentially use sing.

WHO WAS IT THAT BESTOWED THE IDEA UPON MEHHHHHHHHHHHHHH?!!?!?!?!?!!!!?!?!!!11/1234213/!?!

 

[MarioMeteor]

Sounds situational. Maybe if Sing had more range. Did you land it on anybody?
In other news, I ordered a Jigglypuff Amiibo! I've been chasing after that damn thing since August. It's been worse than finding a Shiny Jigglypuff in X and Y.

 

[Kojii]

Who the **** was it that came up with the run-off-platform to sing cancel idea? I pulled it off successfully today randomily due to instinct. I think I might reveal it to the public soon as a thing, and try to see if puff can potentially use sing.

WHO WAS IT THAT BESTOWED THE IDEA UPON MEHHHHHHHHHHHHHH?!!?!?!?!?!!!!?!?!!!11/1234213/!?!

That was me

 

[Jiggly]

I used it as someone was holding the ledge, and I caught them as they did a normal get up. I then canceled it on the ledge, and then I did a jump get up and got the rest.

 

[Codaption]

Oooooh, nice. that sounds like a nice way to cover THAT option that bypasses some of the risk of just throwing out normal Rest.

We could also do the same for getup attack, but since we can get Rest OOS so easily on that it doesn't seem worth it.

 

[Jiggly]

Oooooh, nice. that sounds like a nice way to cover THAT option that bypasses some of the risk of just throwing out normal Rest.

We could also do the same for getup attack, but since we can get Rest OOS so easily on that it doesn't seem worth it.

the only thing is no one really is gonna get up attack a shield, if you are shielding at the ledge, most people will jump get up. If you are above the ledge, most people do a normal get up. Even if they do a get up that you can't sing, you grab the ledge and can't get punished...

 

[Codaption]

the only thing is no one really is gonna get up attack a shield, if you are shielding at the ledge, most people will jump get up. If you are above the ledge, most people do a normal get up. Even if they do a get up that you can't sing, you grab the ledge and can't get punished...

As in, read the getup attack and shield it. Of course they're not gonna getup attack when you're sitting in shield, that's even dumber than ever now.

 

[Desu~]

Sure wish Jigglypuff gets to flail around Donkey Kong-sized arms next patch.

A man can dream, alright guys?!

 

[Ekkie]

Clearly the only way to balance jigglypuff is to make it so that her pound insta-breaks her own shield even whem she doesnt have it out.

i feel like you puff mains and us dedede mains are kindred spirits btw, what with our possibly buffless futures.

Names Ekkie btw. Trying to pick up puff. Not very good with her though.

 

[Codaption]

Rob's kinda in the same boat, he's gotten zero changes other than his massive kill throw nerf throughout the entire lifespan of the game. That being said, the shield patch was pretty generous to us, so our consistency may turn out to be a blessing in disguise.

 

[Jiggly]

Rob's kinda in the same boat, he's gotten zero changes other than his massive kill throw nerf throughout the entire lifespan of the game. That being said, the shield patch was pretty generous to us, so our consistency may turn out to be a blessing in disguise.

R.O.B. is a weird robot. lame.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Rob's kinda in the same boat, he's gotten zero changes other than his massive kill throw nerf throughout the entire lifespan of the game. That being said, the shield patch was pretty generous to us, so our consistency may turn out to be a blessing in disguise.

Except Rob doesn't need buffs.

 

[Quarium]

Ever felt like people think Jiggs is better than she ACTUALLY is? Like Jesus I feel like a puff player doing good in tourney should be goddamn celebrated and admired but people act as if Puff is just this amazing character that for some reason NOBODY gets results with.

Common quotes:

"Lol you shoulda just gimped X character, you're puff" (Apparently someone being offstage automatically means you read their mind and can easily gimp them if you are puff)
"Rest is so easy to land in this game" (SIGH)
"Why is her bair so strong?" (See any other reliable kill moves? oh yeah, not even bair is that reliable)

Like, I understand that she might not be your character or whatever but I feel like common sense and knowing the game should be enough for you to realize that puff is not that good.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Ever felt like people think Jiggs is better than she ACTUALLY is? Like Jesus I feel like a puff player doing good in tourney should be goddamn celebrated and admired but people act as if Puff is just this amazing character that for some reason NOBODY gets results with.

Common quotes:

"Lol you shoulda just gimped X character, you're puff" (Apparently someone being offstage automatically means you read their mind and can easily gimp them if you are puff)
"Rest is so easy to land in this game" (SIGH)
"Why is her bair so strong?" (See any other reliable kill moves? oh yeah, not even bair is that reliable)

Like, I understand that she might not be your character or whatever but I feel like common sense and knowing the game should be enough for you to realize that puff is not that good.

Your right and let's try to brainstorm, what are her CORE problems that really hold her back?
So far her weaknesses seem to be
Light weight
Sucky ground attacks overall
Not having good combos(debatable)
Short ranged attacks
No combo throw
Situation specials
No projectile
Poor approach
Slow speed with the exception of air speed
No reliable kill moves.
There may be more that I'm not thinking of, but this will do.
Now out of all of these which are much more significant then others?
Situational specials is arguably one
No reliable kill confirms is definitely an issue(arguably actually)
anyone with even a remotely decent projectile can force her to approach.
I would see combo throws being somewhat of an issue.....but the damage they do arguably could balance that out.

Ok so regarding her specials, maybe giving some of them less lag could be a step in the right direction
As for no kill confirms, the best they could try is a kill throw?

Ok what problems will most likely not be fixed?
Range in her attack
Lightness
Approach
Projectile
Speed increase
Laggy ground attacks

Basically she has a good deal of flaws, with a majority of them almost never going to get fixed.

What do you personally think they could do to make her better?
You know something that won't make her MU spread laughable?

 

[Jiggly]

If there was a universal hitstun buff, that would make us a lot better. Rest combos = EZ

 

[Codaption]

I feel like a little work on our aerial game would push us forward by leaps and bounds. Obviously we still have a pretty good air game, we are Puff after all, but everyone else's options in the air have been heightened dramatically as the games go on while ours have gotten worse. We're far from the best air fighter now, and as the character that was made for exactly that purpose that needs to change.

First and foremost is disjoint. Right now, our aerials function almost like a swordsman's, but have almost none of the disjoint or range to compensate. Fair alone would be soooooooo much better. We could also use a bit on Bair, though, and while Dair has some the move has a tiny hitbox. Extending the range downwards from her feet might help us a bit in juggle situations and to set up Rest on shorter characters. Nair doesn't really need any but could still do with a small range boost. As for Uair, I could see a little bit of intangibility on her stub helping out a bit, but what it really needs is better frame data- the thing starts on frame 9 and lasts insanely long, so shortening the animation and making it come out faster would make it better for juggles and Rest setups, as well as making our 0-death a bit more reliable.

At the very least, though, we can celebrate the fact that Bair actually is a reliable killer now, or is at least much more reliable as a whole- thanks to the recent patch, the thing is safe on shield when properly spaced, meaning we're at more liberty to throw it out in neutral.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I think our main and crippling weakness is our lack of KO options. Literally the only way you're going to reliably kill someone is if they attack your shield. If they would just let her up throw or forward throw KO, she'd be leaps and bounds better. After that, it's her pitiable ground game. If one of those two gets fixed, maybe Jigglypuff might be something more than decent.

 

[Codaption]

Jigglypuff has always had a poor ground game, and in fact it's been somewhat improved in this game. Her emphasis on aerial play is by far her most defining trait, so if we're gonna get buffs I'd much rather have it be to improve her ability to fight foes off the ground. That being said, giving us a kill throw would certainly help us in both departments.

In the meantime, start spacing Bair against shield. Like, seriously. If your spacing is down you can land it on their shield and get off scot-free, and a kill move that's safe on shield is pretty neat. RAR Dair is much better on shield now as well, and since it's probably our scariest Rest setup (and it leads into Fair, which can also lead into Rest or a WoP) it might be worth checking that out.

 

[MarioMeteor]

It doesn't necessarily have to be a throw, but it would make the most sense and requires less work, which would probably earn the balancing team's favor, if these recent patches are anything to go by.

 

[Codaption]

Honestly, the dev team is probably scared of changing us- the wrong change to a move could drastically affect how it interacts with Rest, making us by far the most volatile character in tha game as far as patching goes. Still, I see no reason why Uthrow shouldn't be a weak kill throw, even something like Marth's or Greninja's would be pretty nice.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Honestly, the dev team is probably scared of changing us- the wrong change to a move could drastically affect how it interacts with Rest, making us by far the most volatile character in tha game as far as patching goes. Still, I see no reason why Uthrow shouldn't be a weak kill throw, even something like Marth's or Greninja's would be pretty nice.

Having a guarenteed combo into Rest is a great idea, and could even be better than having a kill throw. It could give Jigglypuff that reliable KO option she so desperately needs and give her something to work with on the ground. It wasn't broken in Melee, so I don't see how it could be here. It's not like we have any combos into Rest right now that aren't situational as hell, so it can only go right.

 

[Codaption]

Having a guarenteed combo into Rest is a great idea, and could even be better than having a kill throw. It could give Jigglypuff that reliable KO option she so desperately needs and give her something to work with on the ground. It wasn't broken in Melee, so I don't see how it could be here. It's not like we have any combos into Rest right now that aren't situational as hell, so it can only go right.

The issue with that statement is that you're thinking purely from a competitive perspective. Sakurai and his team have to balance for all levels of play- while an easy combo like that might be balanced out by her flaws on the competitive level, from a low-level perspective it's just asking for puff to be called "braindead" or "easy-bake." If there wasn't already a stigma about puff in smash being bad, melee puff probably would have been considered broken by anyone below midlevel. Stick that stuff onto, say, melee GW for example. Or even better, compare us to ZSS- we both have a kill move that is both fast and powerful, but (among other things) what sets her apart is that hers can be combos into pretty easily, and all she needs to start with is a grab. Which....is also the reason why people dislike her as much as they do.

Personally, I have no issue with the way they handled Rest and its setups this game; in fact, I think they balanced it spectacularly. Yes, they can be difficult or situational, but when they end with a move that functions like Rest does then they honestly should be. Our issue is that we don't really have much outside of these setups, which a kill throw would do nicely without going overboard.