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Isn't Ness better in Brawl than in Melee?

darklink92

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
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23
Location
Chicago
When I first used Ness in Brawl I noticed that some of his moves have improved. For example, it's harder for enemies to get out of his PK Fire, and his yo yo does more damage.
Does anyone else feel that he is better than in Melee?
 

FuPoo

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yea tons of stuff on him got improved

...i stil dont like the no cancel jump but at the same time, its a godsend! *PK FIREs an opponent coming back to the platform* easy meteor smash
 

Piks

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
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396
Less PKT2 lag,
PK Thunder is faster and dissipates later,
PK Fire is stronger and harder to escape,
PK Thunder moves in a tighter circle,
PK Flash has less start-up time,
Back-Air (Finisher?) is easier to sweet spot
Since Brawl is floaty, Ness has an advantage because of his air moves

I could go on forever.
 

JonBeBonanza

Smash Lord
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Oct 28, 2007
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Corpus Christi/theMOON, Texas
HELL THE **** NO!

(excuse the caps, but i feel strongly about this)

Double jump canceling, yyg ( which is understandable, but still). His bair now has a sweet spot WTF! I used to FF that **** all day. But i'm just looking trough one eye, i must say he does have his improvements, but IMO trough the way i became accustomed to play ness (from watching simna) then playing brawl ness, was a SLAP in the face from a wet hand. But hey that's just the way i feel.
 

JonBeBonanza

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he compares better to the rest of the characters in this game than he did in melee, it's that simple
Because brawl in general is an easier game. That was thing with low tier characters they were generally harder to control for what they offered. So when brawl re-makes these characters suddenly you don't have to "practice" as much for the same result. Now essentially ness is still the same character, with pros and cons here and there, but when you go from an almost exact pattern of play to playing a brand new character (which is really what he is), it takes the fun out of it for me. Don't get me wrong i still love a good match up to the unsuspecting nub willing to fight me on Corneria, but he is very different of a character.
 

Earthbound360

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DJC gone is both a blessing and a curse. No more rapid fire uairs and foot cancelling, but now we have the ability to defend ourselves while we recover with our fair. It also makes spiking much easier.
His bair ALWAYS had a sweetspot.
YYG was cool, but by no means necessary to play.

Ness was definitely buffed. Only the bat and sparkle were nerfed, but they're still good.
Nair is faster
Bair is less laggy
Uair kills very well now
Dair lost startup lag, got increased range, and a new and very powerful hitbox.
Yo-yos got tons more knockback and a decent charging ability.
PKT2 kills at friggin 30% now
PKT is faster, longer tailed, lasts longer, turns tighter, and is easier to control.
Both PKT and PKT2 lost lag and also have cancellable lag.
Dtilt trips now
Ness' dthrow sends people into the air now.
PKF has lost startup lag and traps and damages better. It also has many new ATs associated with it.
PK Flash has more vertical range now, detonates quicker, and has much less lag. You can even cancel this lag.
PSIM has lost a lot of startup lag and ending lag, and is cancellable. It was even given a wind effect.
 

GimmeAnFSharp

Smash Journeyman
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291
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Boston
Jon, it doesn't seem like you have much to complain about. If Ness got 'nerfed', than that only means ALL the other characters got 'nerfed' even more (for the most part) (relative to Ness).

Being a viable character is RELATIVE to the environment; it's hard to say whether Ness is "better" or "worse", because you're comparing apples to oranges, despite both their names being Ness. The fact is, Ness isn't as punishable by other characters anymore. I wouldn't be able to tell you how many times his floaty-ness in Melee got me killed by Fox's and Falco's popping up and down three of four times before I could even complete one jump (exaggeration).
 

JonBeBonanza

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You make a very good point, but when you revolved most of your game around the yyg, and get this, it is a little disheartening. Then again most of what made up ness were techniques not available in brawl. And even by saying that the bat is slower and can't be used as much as say in melee, attacks diminish with use, so yea i get were you're coming from. But by his Bair having a sweet spot i meant to refer to it as the timing, like that of CF's knee and such.
 

JonBeBonanza

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Jon, it doesn't seem like you have much to complain about. If Ness got 'nerfed', than that only means ALL the other characters got 'nerfed' even more (for the most part) (relative to Ness).

Being a viable character is RELATIVE to the environment; it's hard to say whether Ness is "better" or "worse", because you're comparing apples to oranges, despite both their names being Ness. The fact is, Ness isn't as punishable by other characters anymore.
I never said he got nerfed, I'm just saying that i don't think he's better in brawl. And apples and oranges, REGARDLESS are both fruits. But after reading 360's post his pros far outweigh his impossible cons.
 

JonBeBonanza

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Whoa harsh.

Look i don't want this to be a rant about melee>brawl and all that other bull****. I just merely expressed the way i felt because the thread was asking a question,one which has an indefinite answer, WHY? Because it's asking for an opinion, of which i disagree with. And i still play melee, although i'm horrible now, but i'm trying to make lemonade out of lemons. K! :)

And please no more fruit metaphors/references/gayness
 

Uffe

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PKT is faster, longer tailed, lasts longer, turns tighter, and is easier to control.
Shouldn't that be a looser turn? I was playing Melee a few days back and that thing literally had to make a full circle for it to hit me. :ohwell:
 

NESSBOUNDER

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somewhere sunny
Statistically Ness is massively better.

Then along comes the grab release problem, which is to Ness like a Pokemon having a 4x weakness to ground, a 4x weakness to fighting and a 2x weakness to water. (rock/steel)

It artificially weakens Ness a lot. I can't decide whether he's overall more disadvantaged in Brawl or Melee...
 

Kitamerby

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Statistically Ness is massively better.

Then along comes the grab release problem, which is to Ness like a Pokemon having a 4x weakness to ground, a 4x weakness to fighting and a 2x weakness to water. (rock/steel)

It artificially weakens Ness a lot. I can't decide whether he's overall more disadvantaged in Brawl or Melee...
Thenagain, neither of the chaingrab characters can force an approach, and Ness has quite a few projectiles and will most likely stay in the air most of the time. That, along with counterpick stages that move/very small platforms, is it really THAT big of a problem?
 

Fatmanonice

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Thenagain, neither of the chaingrab characters can force an approach, and Ness has quite a few projectiles and will most likely stay in the air most of the time. That, along with counterpick stages that move/very small platforms, is it really THAT big of a problem?
I don't see a lot of people actively counterpicking though. The only stages I ever see in tournament videos are Final Destination, Battlefield, and Smashville. Aren't close to 20 of the stages "legal" this time around? Why do people limit themselves?
 

NESSBOUNDER

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No matter what stage you're on, You WILL get Ftilted by Snake after every grab for a free 21 damage.

It's not just the infinite grabs we have to worry about, it's the characters who can hit with strong or damaging attacks afterwards.
 

goodoldganon

Smash Champion
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No matter what stage you're on, You WILL get Ftilted by Snake after every grab for a free 21 damage.

It's not just the infinite grabs we have to worry about, it's the characters who can hit with strong or damaging attacks afterwards.
Yep, even if Ness isn't my favorite character it is too bad to see how he is affected by grab release. I don't have the list but I'm sure you can find around here somewhere.
 

PK-ow!

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Whoa harsh.

Look i don't want this to be a rant about melee>brawl and all that other bull****. I just merely expressed the way i felt because the thread was asking a question,one which has an indefinite answer, WHY? Because it's asking for an opinion, of which i disagree with. And i still play melee, although i'm horrible now, but i'm trying to make lemonade out of lemons. K! :)

And please no more fruit metaphors/references/gayness
No it isn't. It's asking if NEss is better in Brawl than in Melee.

Tier standings aren't opinion.

Moreover, pointing out how the loss of a certain tactic screws up *your* - or even everyone's - playstyle, is again irrelevant to the question of if he got better.
 

Dekar173

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Dive grab
PKT1 moves like a mofo
PKT2 kills at 52-54% against anyone (if they're close of course)
yoyo's buffed, it even freakin' spikes now
dtilt is a combo set up
uair kills ~110%
bthrow kills 130%
bair kills 120%
PK fire eats big opponents all day
PK flash ***** tlink's dair
nair has more priority than my grandmother
fair... jesus.
B-stick mindgames are a beauty
dthrow basically does combos for you
everyone is at the very least semi-floaty now, Ness' turf
Counterpicks save your *** from CG's
jab-lock
jab jab ftilt instead of jab jab jab!!!
PKT2's tail... grandmother-priority
recover from the ledge with a jump+fair (no more being ledge *****)

Ness is now the boss of the game. It's just up to US the players to bring him to S-rank (it can be done, we've just gotta get off our ***** and get to some tournaments ;))




He's a monster and that's all there is to it.
 

JonBeBonanza

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No it isn't. It's asking if NEss is better in Brawl than in Melee.

Tier standings aren't opinion.

Moreover, pointing out how the loss of a certain tactic screws up *your* - or even everyone's - playstyle, is again irrelevant to the question of if he got better.
Dude this was from like 5 days ago. The discussion ended between us. He asked a question that started with "Does" and ended with a question mark. I merely stated what i believed. Yes i understand what you are saying about that being my tactical approach in melee, but it's true what i'm saying overall that far less people played ness in melee that in brawl... way less. But please read the other posts where i stand corrected.

But ask me again and i will tell you that i don't think he got better, why? Because of his tier standing, and my tactical approach.

OK!
 

ChileNess

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i live where a Wii is and a tourney in the moment.
o well we cant think to answer that question because ness has now very much cool things
but things like DJC or YYG are missing but KEEP in mind the game has changed so much....
dont you think nintendo changes chars like ness to fit in the game? and brawl is floaty and ness mains a lot in air so..... but bat is like slowy in meelle there was nice... but hey if we use ness we accept ness how he is... and how we is now and cmon PKT2 IS JUST AWESOME i killed a noob yesterday at 28% so thats my opinion also i miss YYG (because i mastered he timing.....:() so there is.
 

PKSkyler

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umm i cant really think of anything better in melee ness than brawl ness....cept maybe baseball bat
 

Dekar173

Justice Man
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As the old adage goes, if you've got nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all.

You've made it pretty clear that you don't like people switching mains, but do you need to say so with every single one of your posts? One surely gets the point across! Aside from beating a dead horse, you're also adding negativity to an already pretty crappy thread (conversation-wise).


Being a thread junky I'm sure you're above average intelligence, so I'm pretty sure I can make the assumption that you can weigh the pros and cons of listening to my advice on your own, correct?


As for switching mains, whatever floats your boat. So long as you stick with the game I don't see what the problem is. I love competition, and this community needs it!
 

Ref

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Play Ness, no johns.
If Ness is your main and you play him well, and like the character listen to Ademisk. Theres not really an excuse to switch a main. Especially the chain grab. If you don't like the character why did you play as them?

Ness is better in Brawl than in Melee.
 

Uffe

Smash Hero
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Jun 14, 2008
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Fresno
What? He's the one being negative. "Oh, Marths beat me, so I'm gonna quit playing Ness" /cry.

Play Ness, no johns.
Serioiusly. I laugh whenever I fight Marth players. FSMASH! Is that all you're going to use? :laugh:

Away from that, though, I liked Ness' bair knock back in Melee better. The only problem is that his legs are too short ranged in Melee when he uses his bair. Also in Melee his bair does 16% while in Brawl it does 15% and 8% if you don't sweet spot it.
 
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